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quindecima
12-10-2015, 07:46 AM
Is there a source for the 4345 foilcals? I have everything covered except for those.

Challenger604
12-10-2015, 08:24 AM
Is there a source for the 4345 foilcals? I have everything covered except for those.


Hi,
you can get in touch with Rudy. Very nice guy.
He has what you need!

timmerman@neb.rr.com

C

Wagner
12-10-2015, 09:57 AM
Is there a source for the 4345 foilcals? I have everything covered except for those.
I'd look for an alternative first (there are other people and technologies that can do it for you and just as nicely)
Mr "Sign--Shop" is one of the worst gougers on ePay I have ever encountered in a long long time
Specialty "niche" product or not
His rates are confiscatory for all of his shit
I especially enjoy his $4 dollar machine screws complete with a .10 chinese T-nut (and don't forget the $3.95 shipping)
I wouldn't spend a nickel with this guy
I realize there are costs involved to set this up, but with today's graphics and printing capabilities....................this guy is, to just put it simply, "Fing" people who don't know where else to go (or, that they CAN go somewhere else) Once he has his template, it costs him peanuts to turn these out

I believe in capitalism and honest profits 100% but not taking advantage of fish in a barrel, PLUS he doesn't even do the number embossing!

I also wonder if he has JBL's permission to do this shit and use all of their trademarked/copyrighted logos, materials and colors?

This guy is a rip off (and I don't care if he's your friend or not) He's gouging, taking advantage of a situation:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/sign--shop/m.html?item=252091013324&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562

BUT, this is still The U.S.A. the last time I looked, so he can do whatever the hell it is he wants to do, and so can I, NOT give him a nickel OR the time of day

Y'all be good!

Thomas

Wagner
12-10-2015, 10:11 AM
On another note:
If anyone has a pair of foilcals they have ruined but are still intact metal wise (as in not torn) I will be happy to try and repair them for you at least well enough until a better pair/option comes long

Price would be just a few dollars for materials and postage ( couldn't imagine it being more than $10 bucks top) MAYBE $15 if I have to lacquer them numerous times to even them out

Thomas

boputnam
12-10-2015, 11:02 AM
I also wonder if he has JBL's permission to do this shit and use all of their trademarked/copyrighted logos, materials and colors?Sadly, JBL's in such disarray they've not a chance - nor a care? - to keep their logos and TMs protected.

I've waited for 8 weeks to get a biamp/DSP module for one of the VP line - a terrific line which has a lot of units out in use. We cannot get answers, let alone parts. JBL now says they're not sure they make the module anymore (even after giving an updated part no.), but they cannot find them, regardless. They offered B stock - I said great, I'll take three (since you're running out and I have eight units in constant rotation). But, they wouldn't ship. More weeks. Then, they report they are not sure they have them. Today, they O/N them without us even asking. And this experience it twice as bad as an identical one, last year...
:(

Challenger604
12-10-2015, 11:35 AM
I'd look for an alternative first (there are other people and technologies that can do it for you and just as nicely)
Mr "Sign--Shop" is one of the worst gougers on ePay I have ever encountered in a long long time
Specialty "niche" product or not
His rates are confiscatory for all of his shit
I especially enjoy his $4 dollar machine screws complete with a .10 chinese T-nut (and don't forget the $3.95 shipping)
I wouldn't spend a nickel with this guy
I realize there are costs involved to set this up, but with today's graphics and printing capabilities....................this guy is, to just put it simply, "Fing" people who don't know where else to go (or, that they CAN go somewhere else) Once he has his template, it costs him peanuts to turn these out

I believe in capitalism and honest profits 100% but not taking advantage of fish in a barrel, PLUS he doesn't even do the number embossing!

I also wonder if he has JBL's permission to do this shit and use all of their trademarked/copyrighted logos, materials and colors?

This guy is a rip off (and I don't care if he's your friend or not) He's gouging, taking advantage of a situation:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/sign--shop/m.html?item=252091013324&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562

BUT, this is still The U.S.A. the last time I looked, so he can do whatever the hell it is he wants to do, and so can I, NOT give him a nickel OR the time of day

Y'all be good!

Thomas

Hi Wagner,
I have to agree with you. I didn't know that he had this reputation.
He justified the shipping cost to Canada because ebay was asking fees to ship it to Kentucky then to me. Was wierd but I just did it. Won't get anything from him.
Still looking pegs...
C

Wagner
12-10-2015, 11:50 AM
Hi Wagner,
I have to agree with you. I didn't know that he had this reputation.

I am not attacking his reputation at all; some people even love the guy from what I hear

What I am saying is that he is an opportunistic, price gouging hustler (and not a very ethical one in my view) for charging the money he does for what it is he's making, makes no matter that it's a "niche" product

It ain't that hard and it ain't that special to do (anymore)

With today's printing technology (and cutting) it's an Fing insult to my intelligence what this guy is charging for his goods and he can't/won't even serialize them?!

The Beauty of it all is, this is (still) America and he can do whatever the hell it is he wants, and charge the same as well

But there's another part of that Beauty, My Opinion, and anyone who doesn't share it or like it? Tough shit

The guy's prices are bull shit, and to make matters worse he also gouges on "shipping"

script56
12-10-2015, 12:53 PM
I love sign shop eBay user. He is really fair for quality of his work. Also he has some spectular custom Jbl speakers he made from exotic woods.

Wagner
12-10-2015, 01:07 PM
I love sign shop eBay user. He is really fair for quality of his work. Also he has some spectular custom Jbl speakers he made from exotic woods.
That's great, I am glad you are happy with him

Doesn't change the fact that the guy is a gouger, I don't give shit what the quality of his work is
There are more involved labels and badges affixed to wine bottles, cigar boxes and perfume bottles nowadays than the stuff he's making

It's not that big a deal anymore to achieve high quality transfer; a computer and a high resolution camera does most of it, NOT "Mr. Sign--shop"

He over charges for what you get, for what he has in it and the fact that his market is microscopic in the greater scheme of things, so he can get away with it without being called out for it (which I do understated, still doesn't justify gouging; he could make other stuff as well) Expand his current "catalog"

I fully understand that if you're in the middle of a restoration project and all you need to put the finishing touches on on a project is a foilcal or two, then the cost often doesn't seem that extravagant; it still doesn't make it right to gouge...................but ah well, that's the way it goes (supply and demand, aka: capitalism)

Maybe it's time for a little friendly competition :hmm:

Wagner
12-10-2015, 01:16 PM
Hi Wagner,
I have to agree with you. I didn't know that he had this reputation.
He justified the shipping cost to Canada because ebay was asking fees to ship it to Kentucky then to me. Was wierd but I just did it. Won't get anything from him.
Still looking pegs...
C
Make 'em an offer with a nice note attached:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/JBL-L-Series-Speaker-grill-pegs-/161912359290?hash=item25b2ba897a:g:RQ4AAOSw8-tWZ1a7

speakerdave
12-10-2015, 01:27 PM
Is there a source for the 4345 foilcals? I have everything covered except for those.

I don't have foilcals since I had factory 4345's, but I do have a pair of repro grille badges sourced out of Japan. Let me know if you're interested.

BMWCCA
12-10-2015, 05:21 PM
I don't have foilcals since I had factory 4345's, but I do have a pair of repro grille badges sourced out of Japan. Let me know if you're interested.
Do they have mounting posts attached, or just bare-back? I have a set without and no real good solution to mounting them. Just curious.

I don't really like the look of them with the badges anyway where I have them. They're imposing enough in my living room even with black grilles!

Challenger604
12-10-2015, 05:46 PM
Make 'em an offer with a nice note attached:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/JBL-L-Series-Speaker-grill-pegs-/161912359290?hash=item25b2ba897a:g:RQ4AAOSw8-tWZ1a7

Thanks Wagner! I can wait for it. Looking for black pegs.
C

speakerdave
12-10-2015, 05:52 PM
Do they have mounting posts attached, or just bare-back? I have a set without and no real good solution to mounting them. Just curious.

I don't really like the look of them with the badges anyway where I have them. They're imposing enough in my living room even with black grilles!

Mine also blank, may be from the same source. I think the idea was to glue on some tie tack type mounts, sourced from where I could not say. That's the way my factory 4333A badges were mounted. I didn't like that idea myself; thought it would pull the grille cloth a little. My plan was to attach bosses extending downward from the top grille frame rail with some flat ceramic magnets on them and also glue some light steel plates (probably should be stainless) to the backs of the badges. I agree about not actually wanting them in my living room. It was just part of cherrying out the speakers. The grilles were never made, and the speakers were sold without.

Wagner
12-10-2015, 10:42 PM
Thanks Wagner! I can wait for it. Looking for black pegs.
C
If I can dig some black ones up I'll send them to you
It always works that way; when you want one, you can only find the other (unless you're willing to pay the ridiculous $10 bucks a pop price
The white ones can always be made black if that seller will give you a reasonable deal

I'll check with a flipper friend of mine tomorrow (yeah, we all know at least one), we may get lucky; he's got a pair of trashed cabs but right now I don't know what's left on them

Best wishes,
Thomas

Challenger604
12-11-2015, 07:20 AM
If I can dig some black ones up I'll send them to you
It always works that way; when you want one, you can only find the other (unless you're willing to pay the ridiculous $10 bucks a pop price
The white ones can always be made black if that seller will give you a reasonable deal

I'll check with a flipper friend of mine tomorrow (yeah, we all know at least one), we may get lucky; he's got a pair of trashed cabs but right now I don't know what's left on them

Best wishes,
Thomas

Thank you very much Wagner, appreciate it.
Christophe

quindecima
12-12-2015, 12:04 PM
I just got a price of 85 bucks each from the sign-shop guy on ebay for the 4345 foilcals......Wagner is correct in his description! That is a totally out in left field price.

tjm001
12-12-2015, 12:48 PM
I just got a price of 85 bucks each from the sign-shop guy on ebay for the 4345 foilcals......Wagner is correct in his description! That is a totally out in left field price.

I know! I had the same offer for my L300 project. I know he does good work. But its kind of like the Wall Street guy who recently raised the price on a long-existing drug called Daraprim from $13.50 a pill to $750 overnight because he was the only manufacturer. Merry Christmas Scrooge!

Tom

Challenger604
12-12-2015, 12:57 PM
I wonder what kind of printer he's using. He told me that it would take a week to make them and two days later they were in the mail.
They are very nice looking but this crazy expensive! $205 CAD! They cost me more than my 2405s! Crazy!
C

kaz
12-13-2015, 03:37 PM
Do they have mounting posts attached, or just bare-back? I have a set without and no real good solution to mounting them. Just curious.

I don't really like the look of them with the badges anyway where I have them. They're imposing enough in my living room even with black grilles!


Where did your blank-backed badges originate?

BMWCCA
12-13-2015, 04:06 PM
Where did your blank-backed badges originate?
:dont-know:
My cabinets and grilles were built by Rick of Kenrick for Dave of Katzass Audio who populated them with JBL OE drivers and later sold them to a member here who sold them to me. I don't know where the badges came in but when I got them the grilles were still in bags never having been used and the badges in wrappers.

kaz
12-13-2015, 08:08 PM
:dont-know:
My cabinets and grilles were built by Rick of Kenrick for Dave of Katzass Audio who populated them with JBL OE drivers and later sold them to a member here who sold them to me. I don't know where the badges came in but when I got them the grilles were still in bags never having been used and the badges in wrappers.


Do you have a plan for the badges?
If not, I may be able to give them a home.

audiomagnate
12-14-2015, 12:53 AM
I don't have a problem with someone asking stupid high prices for foilcals or even screws you can pick up at the local hardware store, but I personally think it's unethical (and kind of creepy) to sell (and buy) fake red driver seals. It's not like they're needed to make a pair of speakers look right; they're not visible after the drivers are installed after all. The only purpose I can see is to mislead a potential buyer into thinking the diaphragm is original and the driver unmolested when that probably isn't the case. It's helping someone commit fraud IMO.

BMWCCA
12-14-2015, 04:53 PM
Do you have a plan for the badges?
If not, I may be able to give them a home.

Sorry, they're to remain part of the set.

Where they go after I die, I care not. Sort of.

Wagner
12-14-2015, 05:17 PM
I don't have a problem with someone asking stupid high prices for foilcals or even screws you can pick up at the local hardware store, but I personally think it's unethical (and kind of creepy) to sell (and buy) fake red driver seals. It's not like they're needed to make a pair of speakers look right; they're not visible after the drivers are installed after all. The only purpose I can see is to mislead a potential buyer into thinking the diaphragm is original and the driver unmolested when that probably isn't the case. It's helping someone commit fraud IMO.
With a very special driver, that I KNEW had simply lost a couple of theirs from old age shrinkage, I MIGHT consider them, MAYBE........................but even then, how many of those plugs do you think are actually sold with that motive in mind, and with full disclosure?

If you are lucky enough to have seen or owned enough of the real deals, you can spot his fakes a mile away anyway

And gain with his bull shit pricing.........................fugedaboudit

remusr
12-16-2015, 12:18 PM
85 apiece is inline with what I paid almost 10 years ago. I do not think oem-quality printed aluminum badges fall out of trees. You need the equipment, materials, research, talent and time. And some volume expectation to spread the cost over to justify making them.

Wagner
12-16-2015, 01:15 PM
85 apiece is inline with what I paid almost 10 years ago. I do not think oem-quality printed aluminum badges fall out of trees. You need the equipment, materials, research, talent and time. And some volume expectation to spread the cost over to justify making them.
Maybe 10 years ago, but today? With the printing, materials and format programs available today to over the counter end users, even for "desk top" operations? It's a gouge, I don't give a shit whether they "fall out of trees" or not

I do agree though, value is in the eye of the beholder, so carry on, more power to you
All I know is it'll be a cold day in hell before I pay that guy (or anyone, it's NOT personal) that kind of money for a foilcal, no matter how nice his work (or personality) may be

Especially with consideration of the fact that he is either unable or unwilling to serialize the things (something that actually requires more than just computer skills); that tells me pretty much all I need to know about just how difficult the process has to be (once you've invested in the hardware/software to make it all happen) That and the fact that the hardware/software isn't exclusive to just making JBL foilcals, I am quite certain it translates to any number of production capabilities/applications he could engage to amortize his costs............plus, the guy has been around for what seems like ages now?

If he wants to limit is activities to milking that one cow then that's his business and fine with me, more power to him and I wish him well; he just won't get any of mine no matter how badly I may want any of his goods. Good quality diaphragms can be had for the same sort of money, hell, even a decent Mackenzie recone kit (good enough for EV on some of their classic drivers, good enough for me in a pinch)

And they don't "fall out of trees" either

tjm001
12-16-2015, 01:43 PM
Maybe 10 years ago, but today? With the printing, materials and format programs available today to over the counter end users, even for "desk top" operations? It's a gouge, I don't give a shit whether they grow on trees or not

I do agree though, value is in the eye of the beholder, so carry on, more power to you
All I know is it'll be a cold day in hell before I pay that guy (or anyone, it's NOT personal) that kind of money for a foilcal, no mater how nice his work (or personality) may be

Especially with consideration of the fact that he is either unable or unwilling to serialize the things (something that actually requires more than just computer skills); that tells me pretty much all I need to know about just how difficult the process has to be (once you've invested in the hardware/software to make it all happen) That and the fact that the hardware/software isn't exclusive to just making JBL foilcals, I am quite certain it translates to any number of production capabilities/applications he could engage to amortize his costs............plus, the guy has been around for what seems like ages now?

If he wants to limit is activities to milking that one cow then that's his business and fine with me, more power to him and I wish him well; he just won't get any of mine no matter how badly I may want any of his goods. Good quality diaphragms can be had for the same sort of money, hell, even a decent Mackenzie recone kit (good enough for EV on some of their classic drivers, good enough for me in a pinch)

And they don't "fall out of trees" either

Ditto!

remusr
12-16-2015, 10:10 PM
Would not adding serial numbers be akin to counterfeiting? That seems a bridge too far for a replica. Otherwise you are entitled to your opinions. However I do not note a bunch of opportunists rushing to do what you describe so you may be unrealistic in your expectations. And why do you come across as so angry about this? Have you had a nasty experience here that I missed the telling of?

Ian Mackenzie
12-17-2015, 01:59 AM
I made my own and no one's complained!
At least when they are adjusted to zero (using my proprietary measurement technique ) l know the whole mess is flat and l dont have to wait for an anxiety attack...lol.

Wagner
12-17-2015, 08:15 AM
Would not adding serial numbers be akin to counterfeiting? That seems a bridge too far for a replica. Otherwise you are entitled to your opinions. However I do not note a bunch of opportunists rushing to do what you describe so you may be unrealistic in your expectations. And why do you come across as so angry about this? Have you had a nasty experience here that I missed the telling of?
Here we go again with the "angry" bull shit. Why is speaking the TRUTH nowadays (or simply sharing one's just as valid as anyone else's opinion) always associated with being "angry" today?
Only thing missing here is the "did we forget to take our medications Wagner" smart remark that thankfully appears to have (finally!) fallen from pop culture favor. I thank you for leaving that one out!

Are you (as in"anyone") in this for the love of the music that JBL can make? The beauty and collectability of JBL industrial design? Or the intersection of both? (all rhetorical to serve the point)

We're parsing words now with something that is very obvious to me. Part of collecting old JBL transducers is that a lot of times, what make one example "MINT" (real expensive) and one example NOT mint (expensive, but not quite so painful) is going to be a missing cosmetic bit, be it a a label or whatever. This reality can and will have a tremendous impact on the selling price (but little to nothing to do with "value" when the transducer is viewed, and used, as a music making device.)

Same as a bad lacquer finish on a fine old brass finished, yet beautifully playing lacquer finished trumpet
has NOTHING to do with sound or functionality but everything to do with MONEY and how much the more fastidious collectors are willing to pay for an example

Once a driver's in the box, you ain't even going see this part of the deal anyway, right? So why drop all of this sort of money on what amounts to the label in a T-shirt anyway? Unless something else is at play here and now we speak to and take a look at motive(s)

As for serializing, I was speaking of applying the original number(s) found on the foilcal being replaced; sorry I didn't connect the dots for you.
I was speaking to replacing damaged foilcals, not missing ones (or any other sort of misrepresentation)
A BLANK foilcal could be interpreted as just as much a counterfeit as no foilcal at all now couldn't it?
Just like those fake red plugs.

And for what it's worth, ANY of his foilcals, numbered or not ARE counterfeits (a misrepresentation of the truth), so I fail to "see" your point. How does one know what was really on a LOT of JBL drivers if it's just plain missing altogether? Hum?
And before you respond that leaving them blank is just exactly the opposite, the SELLER even suggests that you could/can have it done by a jeweler if you'd like, so it's not as if he's discouraging the practice (or doesn't know/is ignorant of what his primary market is all about; pumping up the value of cosmetically flawed collectible JBL pieces)
Notice he doesn't make anything for any of the more common, contemporary (and plentiful on the used market) JBL stuff

The whole thing is a deception to some extent and again, THAT'S YOUR BUSINESS/CONSCIENCE, but my point was, is and has always been about his PRICE GOUGING
I admitted that under very specific and special circumstances I might consider using one of the repro badges myself; I hate to admit it but I have accidentally damaged a foilcal or two being careless during attempts to affect various repairs (I stupidly ruined two 130A badges by simply not putting a soft cloth on my lazy Susan)
And in those cases I would KNOW the correct serial number to use to pull off the illusion
To a certain degree, I am happy that they available, same as repros of old stickers for dressing up vintage cars' engine compartments....................it's the FACT that I KNOW that the MAJORITY of them are being used to make something that's it's NOT into something that it's CLAIMED to be

The typical music lover, enjoying his Father's ancient JBLs isn't even aware of "red seals", nor does he give a shit let alone being on the hunt or in the market to spend $10 bucks a pop for a pair

Calls the whole thing into question for the uninitiated/ non-aficionado/expert

Manipulated cosmetic appearance can easily mislead anyone into confusing a "road hard and put up wet" example with a a time capsule virtually new example and except for personal use and satisfaction, that practice (we call it a "warm over" in the car trade) is a deception.

No different than the coin dealers who use ultrasonic to up a coin's grade in my mind; the average guy is not going to catch it, but he will wind up paying for it unfortunately

Just look at his "sold" numbers for those red plugs for example. There is no way in hell that that the "in it for the music" only members of the JBL community (who routinely replace worn out and bad diaphragms) were that concerned with having those things in place that they were willing to spend $20 bucks PLUS $3.95 in postage just to have them. Especially with the serious builder(s) contingent of the hobby. I just ain't buyin' it.

And the fact that the "sign guy" IS a "gouger" taking advantage of this aspect of Human nature
I really didn't intend for something this simple (obvious) to go on for this long, but I guess some people just don't get it
Plus I have a problem with the fact that whether JBL "cares" or not (and you now what pal, they do despite what you may think), these are all licensed trademarks and images so he's "F'ing them over too (as well as the guys who have the REAL shit (time capsule examples and true NOS) for sale and can't get what an original (and rare) is truly worth thanks to the fakes (I'm sorry, "enhanced") does indeed tick me off
But not "angry", just disappointed at how so many people can and are willing to play the scum bag used car salesman role
All the pretty little stickers and red plugs don't do a damn thing to help with improving what was already the best, especially if it was ever abused, misused or damaged (OR started out in life as something else entirely)
And THAT'S my point
Just think about it

Thomas

Ian Mackenzie
12-17-2015, 09:54 AM
Thomas,

I would like to see more context in your posts so that anyone can ready your single post and see the bigger picture aside from your arguing the point.

Ie most L100s on Ebay today are recycle from parts previously souls on EBay, hence the visibility of after market "flee market" traders selling foilcals. There's nothing authentic about any of it but buyer beware and thus is common knowledge from many of use who have been on the site for over 10 years.

Therefore I don't see the point of your rants.

The other side of it is reproductions of the JBL designs which is prolific by forum members and some outfits like Kendrick.

What anyone does or does not do is there own business and there is no rule book as its about personal satisfaction of what's in your living room.

"The Beauty of it all is, this is (still) America and he can do whatever the hell it is he wants, and charge the same as well."

"But there's another part of that Beauty, My Opinion, and anyone who doesn't share it or like it? Tough shit".

You did not need to post that as the tone of your posts is your Brand.

You offered to repair the foilcals so why not leave at that.

People don't have time to source suppliers for this type of item and EBay is a quick fix.

Most of us don't need to be given an essay on an opinion so can your keep your posts short and to the point that way they are more likely to be in fact read and you will have more time to pursue other more meaningful things in life.

Wagner
12-17-2015, 10:45 AM
Thomas,

I would like to see more context in your posts so that anyone can ready your single post and see the bigger picture aside from your arguing the point.

Ie most L100s on Ebay today are recycle from parts previously souls on EBay, hence the visibility of after market "flee market" traders selling foilcals. There's nothing authentic about any of it but buyer beware and thus is common knowledge from many of use who have been on the site for over 10 years.

Therefore I don't see the point of your rants.

The other side of it is reproductions of the JBL designs which is prolific by forum members and some outfits like Kendrick.

What anyone does or does not do is there own business and there is no rule book as its about personal satisfaction of what's in your living room.

"The Beauty of it all is, this is (still) America and he can do whatever the hell it is he wants, and charge the same as well."

"But there's another part of that Beauty, My Opinion, and anyone who doesn't share it or like it? Tough shit".

You did not need to post that as the tone of your posts is your Brand.

You offered to repair the foilcals so why not leave at that.

People don't have time to source suppliers for this type of item and EBay is a quick fix.

Most of us don't need to be given an essay on an opinion so can your keep your posts short and to the point that way they are more likely to be in fact read and you will have more time to pursue other more meaningful things in life.
Guess it all went right over your head, huh?
That failure is all mine, my apologies.
That said, you may also wish trying a good dose of your own advice as well (and try actually listening to what another Human being is trying to say/convey whether you care for their personal style or not); you're not the only reader here of these pages.
GOD did not put me here on this Earth to make Ian Mackenzie happy or to meet his high standards
Thank you for your helpful observations, I will give them the appropriate consideration and advisement due

You have a wonderful day, :)

Thomas Wagner

Wagner
12-17-2015, 11:59 AM
OH, NOW I remember! (I save your "correspondence")
You're the joker who PM'd me with threats and accused me of being somehow being a "racist" out for Black people?! :blink:

Never a dull moment with you!
Thanks for the laugh
(You really should be careful with the words you use though in such a litigious age)

Thomas

remusr
12-17-2015, 02:17 PM
Thomas, I am far from a PC dude. But this issue seems trivial. JBL will not supply a replacement. Party A spends their time and resources to create a pretty "accurate to original" foilcal (or a recone kit). Party A sells it for whatever price they care to. No buyer has to buy it. They can look for alternative sources or make it themselves. Or do without. This kind of thing happens all the time, all around us. Like gasoline here in Canada - world prices for crude went down 50-60% from mid-2014, and US pump prices followed suit(except California due to increased taxes). Crude went down more like 60-70% here in Alberta due to our transport differentials, but our gasoline pump prices only went down 10-20%. Oh well, s#%$ happens.

My last comments were a bit of a sidetrack to the thread, following the comment about wanting a serial number as well. I'm no lawyer but would not adding a JBL-valid serial number to a foilcal or a recone kit that is not on the original unit be counterfeiting? Similar to a counterfeit VIN on a car. Putting your own sn on it, especially a personal one as Ian did, seems ok to me as it is not pretending to be from JBL. 'Nuff said.

Wagner
12-17-2015, 02:37 PM
Putting your own sn on it, especially a personal one as Ian did, seems ok to me as it is not pretending to be from JBL. 'Nuff said.
Yeah, you're right about that "homie" "'Nuff'" said

Try reading my posts (versus skimming) if you find yourself compelled to find fault/debate/disagree with them (which is fine, debate is part of what this forum thing is all about and I take no offense; your feelings and remarks are as valid as mine or anyone else's) because in this particular case about a 1/2 or more of what you're saying doesn't even apply to my objections and comments. Possibly that's my fault for being such an ineffective communicator of my thoughts! :)

Feels awfully familiar though (what Ben said/says)

As for your comments on the price of crude versus gasoline versus how much of it represents confiscatory taxation at the pump? And the followup reconciliation/accepting cliche, "Oh well, sit happens" is exactly what I AM talking about and is a big part of a whole lot of problems, not just unethical sellers and flippers dealing in reproduction foilcals. This tolerance of, and just going along with bull shit "as long as it's not in MY backyard" or affecting me directly is why the world is in the big mess it's in right now
And you've got to raise your voice in protest against it somewhere/sometime about SOMETHING

But now I REALLY digress! :) But yes, I am in total agreement with you, there are more than enough unethical dirt bags, of ALL stripes, to go around and last us until the end of days, that's a fact!

Take care friend

Thomas

mech986
12-18-2015, 03:14 AM
Sadly, JBL's in such disarray they've not a chance - nor a care? - to keep their logos and TMs protected.

I've waited for 8 weeks to get a biamp/DSP module for one of the VP line - a terrific line which has a lot of units out in use. We cannot get answers, let alone parts. JBL now says they're not sure they make the module anymore (even after giving an updated part no.), but they cannot find them, regardless. They offered B stock - I said great, I'll take three (since you're running out and I have eight units in constant rotation). But, they wouldn't ship. More weeks. Then, they report they are not sure they have them. Today, they O/N them without us even asking. And this experience it twice as bad as an identical one, last year...
:(

Is Dave in Pro Parts still working there?

Wagner
12-18-2015, 10:25 AM
Take a look at the money that changes hands to hang a new sign on the front of any of the major or famous sports venues today
BRANDING is where all of the money is today, now that we live in a nation that no longer manufactures shit...................
Many times (and it is well documented) once GREAT, iconic companies fall into a state of disarray to the point that they barely resemble even a shadow of their former selves
BUT, that (their) NAMES and all those REGISTERED trademarks are still as negotiable a security as silver or gold and they still sell boat loads (in today's case "shit" loads) of product thanks to enduring recognition:
Advent
KLH
Philco
Garrad
Crosley
Telefunken
Fisher (well Sanyo pretty much used that one up by the early '90s, but you catch my drift)
and on and on and on it goes..................you get my point

I can flat ass out guarantee you that Jane (or at least one of her 5,000 attorneys on retainer) does indeed still give a care about those trademarks and logos, and protecting them (i.e.: making them revenue generators) whether she still holds any respect for them or not (or even if he ever did)

Even if the actual company and it's legacy products are dead now and in the cold cold ground

Grand old iconic high quality American names are solid gold for any and all chinese holding/distribution companies for sure and that's a fact

That's almost all that's left of our once "engine of democracy" manufacturing prowess of consumer commodities, the name(s)

Even those companies that are still viable in one area or another will license out or "spin off" their name (at a tremendous profit) for goods they no longer have any interest in; I often weep (literally) when I stroll the isles of a general goods store and see the pure SHIT emblazoned with the name "General Electric" on the package

JBL cares about it's trademarks and logos, believe you me.

Ian Mackenzie
12-18-2015, 12:23 PM
Thomas,

Given your passion on the matter of the foilcals and apparent resourcefulness and articulation of how to do it "better" why not apply your talents to arranging a cost effective group buy much like those on Diyaudio.com.

Wagner
12-18-2015, 04:27 PM
Thomas,

Given your passion on the matter of the foilcals and apparent resourcefulness and articulation of how to do it "better" why not apply your talents to arranging a cost effective group buy much like those on Diyaudio.com.
Another incessant wise guy who cannot read
But (stupidly), I'll play along anyway
First, I have no troubles removing them intact, and in perfect condition, EVERY TIME (but it does require a modicum of common sense), so, I don't have that issue to deal with (destroying/deforming them beyond any practical use via stupidity)
Secondly, if I do come into possession of a driver that's missing it's foilcal, then so be be it, it's not a problem for me (I don't stay awake at night worrying over it; like I said, can't see them anyway once they're in the box. The only people (really and unduly) freaked out over this would predominantly have to be FLIPPERS (in my humble opinion)
It's just a part of the way that life goes; they all can't be perfect cosmetic specimens after 30, 40 or even 50 years....................

and thirdly, as for doing it "better"? I already do/can (and better than paying $60 to &80 bucks a POP for a simple two or three color print layout with only the slightest of texture changes); the solution is called a high resolution printer + a bit of careful lamination to a sheet of readily available aluminum sheet stock (and even the aluminum isn't necessary, unless you DO want the die stamped numbers for authenticity's sake)
Works well for the missing/damaged cabinet labels too. The only challenge is at times it is moderately difficult to find a stock image from which to work

I'd have no problems with the money he charges if we were talking the early, heavy badge type pieces, usually attached to the back of the cabs; that would require either a 3-D printer or actual casting; now THAT would be an entirely different conversation of which I would have an entirely different view

The "subject" (my "problem" or "passion" as you put it) is that the "sign--shop" guy is a rip off artist, a gouger, plain and simple and I don't feel the need to explain things any further to "prove" or validate my position.

Understand now? Or is here some hidden racist agenda in those simple statements of fact?

The only justification for his ridiculous pricing (return on investment) is if he's using antiquated, outdated methodology (1960s, 70s or even 80s equipment and methods) to make his wares then that would make a little bit of sense (because it would be very labor intensive to do so) Still doesn't make it right and it still doesn't give me reason to be stupid enough to pay someone doing something so simple using "old world" techniques. This is a case of which the "old world" charm holds little,value to me. Now if we were talking high end/high quality men's leather shoes or wood work then maybe we could talk! That, or single malt Scotch and cigars.

And just curious, he some kin of yours or something or are you the "sign--shop" guy"?

tjm001
12-18-2015, 06:04 PM
the solution is called a high resolution printer + a bit of careful lamination to a sheet of readily available aluminum sheet stock (and even the aluminum isn't necessary, unless you DO want the die stamped numbers for authenticity's sake)

That's exactly what I am doing for my L300-type DIYs! No fake serial numbers though.:applaud: Well, I made them so maybe serial number 1 and 2.

Tom

Ian Mackenzie
12-18-2015, 10:37 PM
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?5918-Overcoming-foilcal-a-phobia

The above link is most interesting and informative.

Thomas my wish to review this thread.

I was unable to locate another shop that is supplying the finished item. I have sub optimal vision these days and would like to commission "Thomas" to kindly supply me a pair of the 4345 foilcals and the grill plates.

My only expectation is that you can do the job for less that the ebay offer you have posted .

Wagner
12-19-2015, 10:42 PM
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?5918-Overcoming-foilcal-a-phobia

The above link is most interesting and informative.

Thomas my wish to review this thread.

I was unable to locate another shop that is supplying the finished item. I have sub optimal vision these days and would like to commission "Thomas" to kindly supply me a pair of the 4345 foilcals and the grill plates.

My only expectation is that you can do the job for less that the ebay offer you have posted .

Sounds like you've got a personal problem to me. This part of some passive aggressive thing you've got going or just another tack at trying to be a funny guy?

After your ridiculous "racist' comments and PM, I wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire
But now you've lost me; I thought I understood you to feel that the "sign--shop" guy's prices were reasonable?
Now I am really confused?

But this has to be my mostest favoritest part of t all:

I was unable to locate another shop that is supplying the finished item. I have sub optimal vision these days and would like to commission "Thomas" to kindly supply me a pair of the 4345 foilcals and the grill plates.

My only expectation is that you can do the job for less that the ebay offer you have posted .

Gee whiz, your ONLY expectation? Besides a better price? What girl could turn down such a lovely, irresistible offer as that?

You really are a charmer. Give "Staples" FedEx Kinko's" or "Office Depot"a call; they should both have hi -rez printers in all their shops by now as well as the very best of staff.

I'm lucky, I live right down the road from Silicon Valley so we's gots lots of those fancy type printers just 'bout everywhere, all over the doggone place! Lots 'o them fancy eelectronic gadget shops too!

Don't be knowin' all that much about that thar "The Tardis" place you be stayin'

Good luck there big guy

Ian Mackenzie
12-19-2015, 11:59 PM
Actually members on this forum often help each other.

In the past week l have corresponded on tuning the 4343 to fellow forum member do he could gain maximum enjoyment.

The simple reality is your unfortuate demeanor indicates are not the sort of person who is welcome on the Lansing Forums.

I doubt you will be around for much longer.

Ian Mackenzie
12-20-2015, 12:15 AM
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/misc.php?do=showrules

BMWCCA
12-20-2015, 07:01 AM
After your ridiculous "racist' comments and PM, I wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire

At the very least in the spirit of the holiday season, would you mind terribly if you just STFU for a few days?


Best Wishes Everyone for Peace on Earth

gsb001
12-20-2015, 01:22 PM
Hi,
you can get in touch with Rudy. Very nice guy.
He has what you need!

timmerman@neb.rr.com


Ditto. I'm a very satisfied customer.
SB

Challenger604
12-21-2015, 06:37 AM
Hi,
you can get in touch with Rudy. Very nice guy.
He has what you need!

timmerman@neb.rr.com


Ditto. I'm a very satisfied customer.
SB

Copy and paste? Are you that lazy?

quindecima
12-21-2015, 09:12 AM
I absolutely hate to go there because of the price but I may have to. :(

robertg
07-01-2019, 08:28 AM
Is anyone else making 4345 foilcals? The sign shop will not ship to Canada.

Odd
07-01-2019, 08:57 AM
See ebay. JBL STICKER LABEL FOILCAL (https://www.ebay.com/itm/JBL-4343B-STICKER-LABEL-FOILCAL/163390060431?hash=item260ace778f:g:IgkAAOSwMg5b9rJ A)
He makes all types.
They are thin but good print quality.

robertg
07-01-2019, 10:27 AM
See ebay. JBL STICKER LABEL FOILCAL (https://www.ebay.com/itm/JBL-4343B-STICKER-LABEL-FOILCAL/163390060431?hash=item260ace778f:g:IgkAAOSwMg5b9rJ A)
He makes all types.
They are thin but good print quality.
That's my other option, I bought some decals off him before and they were pretty good. I'll just have to stick them on a really thin piece of aluminum.

Ian Mackenzie
07-01-2019, 04:07 PM
Thanks for the link,

I had thought about getting a local shop to make them. With the current exchange rate they would be reasonable at your end.

robertg
07-12-2019, 06:10 AM
I'm still looking. The Italian seller hasn't responded to me through eBay and his web site. I found a seller form Russia who had some 4345 foilcals, but he sold them all and doesn't know when he is getting more.

I might have to bite the bullet and buy them from the sign shop. I'm not sure if I want to drive four hours to pick them up at the border since he won't ship to Canada.