Choosing between Array 1400, K2 S9800 or True-extent Beryllium...

[frank23]

Lately I have been thinking a little about choices I can make for my 'big' system. I am very satisfied with the sound of what I have now: E145 (closed cabinet) +2123+2420/2344/radian-alu-dia's all active on 6 30W class A amps on a modified M553 crossover, silver cabling, very nice sound. Plays everything from Daft Punk to The Carpenters, jazz and classical, sounds very open and intense.

But I have seen an Array 1400 system for sale for 4.500 euro. And I have seen a K2 S9800 system for sale for 10.000 euro (euro / dollar is about 1/1).

A 3rd option could be to get some H9800 horn copies from Guido and equip them with Radian + True-extent beryllium dia's, all for the cost of about 3.500 euro. I really like the 2123, but with these instead of my 2344/2420 I could get my crossover point a little lower to say 1000Hz and probably get nicer highs.

But my current system is so tuned to my taste that all the different options that I have investigated over the past years have not 'made the cut' and instead my system keeps being improved bit by bit. Yet it is stil very ugly...

I am afraid the Array 1400 system won't make the cut due to it being passively filtered and bass reflex and not being a 'high sensitivity' design. The K2 S9800 looks nicer with the better bass, the 9V biased crossover and the Be drivers, and is uniformly regarded as a top class speaker. The BLS horns + radian + true-extent could be magical, on par with the 476Be driver/horn from the Everest. But the system will still be ugly and I still need 6 amps for the active system.

What would you do?

[Robh3606]

Go and listen to the Arrays. You have nothing to loose. I absolutely love mine Greg really nailed it with that system.

Rob:)

[pos]

Why not also consider the M2 as well? (clone or original)

[macaroonie]

Hi Frank , have you considered the M2 solution ? Purely based on the stunning reviews , the package cost of the HF components is well inside your E3500 and the DSP options are well documented.
I would see the delay/ alignment as being a big plus over what the M553 can do for you and of course room correction is on tap.
I expect some European members will pitch in with their experience of this.

^ Ah , he beat me to it

[frank23]

Hmm, the M2. I'm not sure. I don't like the DSP etc. It took me a while to find the right DAC for me, non-oversampling, and I don't believe in doing all sorts of calculations on the sound. And amps is the same. I love my Marantz MA24 30W class A monoblocks, 1200W of crown amps does not feel right, I can't believe they are going to make music.

The high driver from the M2 is not too expensive on Ebay, I see one for just under 300$. That could be an option if it attaches to a JBL 1.5" horn. But I also read on other threads that Ebay ones might have been abused and that they might measure differently.

I have to listen to the Array 1400, yes. Maybe I'll have the time somewhere in the next few weeks.

[bubbleboy76]

All speakers you consider are nice, and will make you happy, I think :)
I would go for the M2-clone.
Maybe possible for someone to convert the M2-dsp settings into a passive filter?

[Mr. Widget]

If you love your 30 watt class A Marantz amps and insist you want to use these, then your best plan is probably to continue in the DIY realm. This wouldn't be my first choice however.

How important is dynamic impact and the ability to play loud? I love the 1400 Arrays, but they are not my favorite when it comes to elevated listening levels or dynamic impact.

I have never been a fan of the K2- S9800. I think it shares in the 1400's shortcomings in dynamic impact and falling apart at higher SPLs without offering the splendid imaging and voicing of the 1400.

You might want to consider going the 4365 route. It is dynamic, images pretty well, has an excellent natural sound and will likely be discounted soon as the 4367 rolls out.

Then there is the M2 and the passive variant the 4367. I too share your reservations about the DSP and amp requirements of the M2. That said, many seem extremely pleased with them. The 4367 may be an excellent option as a passive alternative to the M2. For me, this system is still an unknown quantity. I hope to remedy that in the coming months.


Widget

[speakerdave]

I'm seeing signs of proof-of-concept mule, chassis, wire and fuss fatigue as I have experienced them, and buying a finished system can sure look like a solution. However, with a finished system if you begin to notice something about them that distracts you from the music there will be very little you can do about it except buy another system.

One possible solution to the unsightliness problem is to have some cabinets made with subdivided and removable baffle panels, one for the woofers and ports, or not, and one for the mid bass and dog box. Add to that a matching enclosed sled for the horn and horn baffle. Then modifications can be made without building complete new cabinets. This is one of many good ideas I have had but not yet realized. Otherwise, making finished cabinets for your system will be postponed until the system is finished, which may be never,

In my experience:
--the the 3" Be driver in the S9800 does not come up to the 4" 476Be (or the TAD 4003).
--when using a 10" mid bass to 1000hz or higher TAD 2" Be diaphragm drivers are quite satisfactory. Guido has worked out a passive crossover for the TAD 2001 on the 2344. The TAD 2002 would be even better.
--once experienced, even with the best woofers and horns in a two-way (1400nd, 1500AL-1, TAD 1601b, 1602 and TAD 4003), thoughts of 10" mid bass drivers are not entirely escaped.
--the E145 as a woofer is a Drew Daniels kind of choice and may benefit from an added subwoofer.
--I think with your class A amps and a fine Be diaphragm you're going to hear something you hadn't thought was possible.
--I doubt any of the systems you refer to will have the snap and presence you now enjoy.

My opinion, of course.

[frank23]

You might want to consider going the 4365 route. It is dynamic, images pretty well, has an excellent natural sound and will likely be discounted soon as the 4367 rolls out.

I see a new pair of 4365 for sale in neighbouring Germany for 13.600 euro... Those look nice and big!

And how loud is loud? I think most people's systems will definately not play as loud as I sometimes play, it all is effortless with the 15" etc., but the system can go up another few notches. But with the 2123 and 100dB sensitivity, this means that the Array 1400 would need quite some more amp power than my current 3x30W per side.

And yes, speakerdave, when they're final I will have nice cabinets made... so that means never. I am afraid having 'factory' speakers would be frustrating.

Thanks for the tips. I'll check out the Array 1400 if I can and otherwise will probably stay on the DIY route then.

[macaroonie]

Frank , just in case you misunderstood my suggestion , I was only referring to the HF section of the M2.
Keep your 145 / 2123 in place and turn over at 800 Hz as per the M2.

The D2 driver is available new from ' Reconing Loudspeakers ' http://reconingspeakers.com/product/jbl-d2430k-tweeter-for-jbl-m2-5032754x/ 355 US each !!

Waveguides from the same seller

http://reconingspeakers.com/product/jbl-m2-horn-lens-5025594/

I think Pos has a set

[Mr. Widget]

And how loud is loud? I think most people's systems will definately not play as loud as I sometimes play, it all is effortless with the 15" etc., but the system can go up another few notches. But with the 2123 and 100dB sensitivity, this means that the Array 1400 would need quite some more amp power than my current 3x30W per side.Anything above about 100dB is loud. Based on your statement I doubt the 1400 Arrays will satisfy you. I'm also not convinced that the D2 based systems will be entirely satisfactory either.

All of of these systems will play quite loudly if given enough power, but I for one am not pleased with the sound of the 3" diaphragmed systems when playing loudly. I am not a Metalhead and rarely blast my system above 100dB, but occasionally I do and when I do, I prefer the 4" drivers with either AL or Be diaphragms.

Others may disagree, but these are my opinions that I have formed over decades of experimenting with various systems.


Widget

[bubbleboy76]

You can buy my 4365s for 11k Euros, if you want to take a long drive.
I once drove to the Netherlands buying an f18 catamaran, so it is doable :)
I am contenplating switching to 4429 with subs instead, to get the same speaker all round in 5.1.

[1audiohack]

I was in the middle of typing very nearly the exact same thing as Widget posted and got called away long enought to see his.

I have 1400's and 4365's and for dynamic get up and go the 4365's win without a fight. The Arrays are very fine bedroom speakers. :)

Barry.

[audiomagnate]

I absolutely love the Arrays. I think they sound extremely "real." But if loud is what you want and you have to stick with 30 watt amps then they probably aren't the way to go.

[g_t_r]

Currently I'm using 1400 Array and are amazing. Now I have an option to upgrade to K2 S9800, is it really worth from "sound" improvement perspective? I do not play very loud etc.

[Robh3606]

The Arrays will probably image better because of the horn orientation. If I were you I would at least have a listen. The biggest difference is the woofer the other drivers are essentially the same except for AL+Ti vs Be and the network is CC in the 9800

Rob:)

[audiomagnate]

Currently I'm using 1400 Array and are amazing. Now I have an option to upgrade to K2 S9800, is it really worth from "sound" improvement perspective? I do not play very loud etc.

It sounds to me that you should stick with what you have.

[martin_wu99]

Currently I'm using 1400 Array and are amazing. Now I have an option to upgrade to K2 S9800, is it really worth from "sound" improvement perspective? I do not play very loud etc.
obverously K2 S9800 is not in same class with Array 1400 in JBL speakers order,S9800 is flagship at that time and is hi-end speaker and 1400 is hi-fi speaker,just look at their price tab
BTW,S9800 is not loud at all

[Ian Mackenzie]

Currently I'm using 1400 Array and are amazing. Now I have an option to upgrade to K2 S9800, is it really worth from "sound" improvement perspective? I do not play very loud etc.

Quote
“A 3rd option could be to get some H9800 horn copies from Guido and equip them with Radian + True-extent beryllium dia's, all for the cost of about 3.500 euro. I really like the 2123, but with these instead of my 2344/2420 I could get my crossover point a little lower to say 1000Hz and probably get nicer highs.

But my current system is so tuned to my taste that all the different options that I have investigated over the past years have not 'made the cut' and instead my system keeps being improved bit by bit. Yet it is stil very ugly...

I am afraid the Array 1400 system won't make the cut due to it being passively filtered and bass reflex and not being a 'high sensitivity' design”


I agree and think it would be a risk to switch to another system at this point. You have a good loudspeaker and good Amos.

You could try a 1 inch Radian be driver (talk to Guido) and do better on the active crossover.
Btw the Array can be actively crossed over if you know how.