PDA

View Full Version : Can Anyone Stateside Do What Kenrick Does?



cgregory4
10-19-2015, 06:21 PM
I've located a couple 4350s and 4355s with honest pedigrees over the past year or so.

They could be the basis of a good 'ground up' restoration. I wouldn't mind owning a DD65000 (Why is this model so scarce? -- Old JBL 'box' look with new driver technology.), but I also wouldn't mind investing in a 4350 restoration that might end up costing the same. Long story short: I might want both.

Can anyone stateside do the 43XX job? Without sending it to the land of the rising sun?

Greg

PS -- Related question would be how the 65000 would fare, compared to a 'first class refurbed' 4355. Why is there so little discussion comparing old vs new TOTL models? Or is there truly, "Nothing new under the sun?"

Ducatista47
10-19-2015, 07:40 PM
Member saeman restores the cabinets (and builds complete 43xx speakers as well). Ask him if he works with drivers too. He is in Joliet, Illinois.


PS -- Related question would be how the 65000 would fare, compared to a 'first class refurbed' 4355. Why is there so little discussion comparing old vs new TOTL models? Or is there truly, "Nothing new under the sun?"

The 4350 and the 4355 to a possibly lesser extent are often considered to be better at loud than presenting refined hifi. I have heard the 4350 and 4355 and it may be that nothing else ever marketed does loud as well as they do. If I am ever invited to another home listening session of them I am bringing earplugs. The 4345 is a keeper.

I can only report what others have told me, but the current flagships seem to be in another class. Array, K2 and 66000 series are each a step up from the last and can't be touched by the old monitors. I can personally say (4345 owner) that if imaging is your thing, it is not mine, that the 43xx don't do it to any appreciable degree.

Mr. Widget
10-19-2015, 10:48 PM
The 4350 and the 4355 to a possibly lesser extent are often considered to be better at loud than presenting refined hifi. I have heard the 4350 and 4355 and it may be that nothing else ever marketed does loud as well as they do.I played my DD66000 stupid loud a few Saturday afternoons back and they will do what the 4355s will do and with just as much awesomeness... I think the comparison fails to occur because the vintage speakers are thousands of dollars and the new ones are tens of thousands of dollars.


Widget

Ducatista47
10-19-2015, 11:15 PM
I played my DD66000 stupid loud a few Saturday afternoons back and they will do what the 4355s will do and with just as much awesomeness... I think the comparison fails to occur because the vintage speakers are thousands of dollars and the new ones are tens of thousands of dollars.


Widget
I stand corrected. I had not thought about the issue because I never considered it a virtue. I did appreciate the warnings on the product sheets that the monitors would damage your hearing before they would audibly distort.

Would I need earplugs at your place too? :D

tomt
10-20-2015, 12:42 AM
are often considered to be better at loud than presenting refined hifi.




a large speaker, most likely will need a large room.

for a 4350/5, larger than most houses have space ...


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


the good news here is,

there is still room for 4 more -

http://www.avsforum.com/photopost/data/2281601/c/c1/c1b9817c_4350.png

cgregory4
10-20-2015, 03:59 AM
I played my DD66000 stupid loud a few Saturday afternoons back and they will do what the 4355s will do and with just as much awesomeness... I think the comparison fails to occur because the vintage speakers are thousands of dollars and the new ones are tens of thousands of dollars.


Widget

I may be incorrect, but if you purchase the nicest pair of all-original, one-owner 4350s available, plus pay to refurbish them 'showroom fresh' you are looking at tens of thousands of dollars. The question of comparison is legit, but perhaps naive -- hence the 'stupid' :) question.

Greg

cgregory4
10-20-2015, 04:03 AM
a large speaker, most likely will need a large room.

for a 4350/5, larger than most houses have space ...


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


the good news here is,

there is still room for 4 more -

http://www.avsforum.com/photopost/data/2281601/c/c1/c1b9817c_4350.png

Good morning, sir,

How many square feet (or acres :)) in your room. What is the floor covering? Beautiful .... just hugely gorgeous!

Greg

PS -- I am curious about the placement/orientation of the 2405s .... and your rationale.

4313B
10-20-2015, 07:38 AM
Why is there so little discussion comparing old vs new TOTL models?What would be the point? Everyone knows that the designer of both systems has only gotten better at what he does over the last forty-some years...

I wonder if he ever had a pair of his 4355's in his living room... :hmm: That could be a cool picture to see in a photo album. :yes: In any case, I highly doubt that a pair of his 4355's would ever replace his DD67000's. ;)

Besides, it is probably considered good manners not to discuss just how much better his newer designs are, and so much better on so many levels. - "light years better"

BTW - I did know a guy who worked with Greg way back then who put a brand new pair of 4350's in his bedroom. There was room for a twin bed, two 4350's and a dresser. We thought it was beyond cool at the time, now it just seems funny. :p The album was Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers - Damn the Torpedos. Release date: October 19, 1979 I will never forget how "Here Comes My Girl" sounded in that tiny room on those monsters.

Mr. Widget
10-20-2015, 07:39 AM
Would I need earplugs at your place too? :DDoubtful... the playback I mentioned was an almost singular event. For 10-15 minutes I hit the speakers with hundreds of watts and while stunning I nolonger have 18 year old ears and felt that was plenty.


Widget

Mr. Widget
10-20-2015, 07:42 AM
I wonder if he ever had a pair of his 4355's in his living room... :hmm: That could be a cool picture to see. :yes: In any case, I highly doubt that a pair of his 4355's would ever replace his DD67000's. ;)Ten years ago I had a pair of 4355 clones... they were easily replaced, my DD66000s are not.


Widget

4313B
10-20-2015, 07:56 AM
Ten years ago I had a pair of 4355 clones... they were easily replaced, my DD66000s are not.Indeed! They truly are keepers. :coolness:

cgregory4
10-20-2015, 05:07 PM
I intend no slight toward anyone involved in the pursuit of audio perfection. Please forgive me if it appears so. I suppose it was dangerous to 'think out loud' in my postscript.

My main question was the restoration of 'honest' high-end JBLs, and that was answered with one recommendation.

I have seen the utube installations of Kenrick installations in environments where the associated equipment revealed the purchasers could afford any speaker in the 100K atmosphere. But they were investing in restored vintage JBL -- and, it appears, for the sheer love of music. So, it was an honest, if naive, afterthought.

Greg

4313B
10-20-2015, 05:13 PM
But they were investing in restored vintage JBL -- and, it appears, for the sheer love of music.It could be as simple as "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" meaning that if a system like the 4355 does it for you and you can get a pair then you're good to go. :)

Wagner
10-20-2015, 05:32 PM
I've located a couple 4350s and 4355s with honest pedigrees over the past year or so.

They could be the basis of a good 'ground up' restoration. I wouldn't mind owning a DD65000 (Why is this model so scarce? -- Old JBL 'box' look with new driver technology.), but I also wouldn't mind investing in a 4350 restoration that might end up costing the same. Long story short: I might want both.

Can anyone stateside do the 43XX job? Without sending it to the land of the rising sun?

Greg

PS -- Related question would be how the 65000 would fare, compared to a 'first class refurbed' 4355. Why is there so little discussion comparing old vs new TOTL models? Or is there truly, "Nothing new under the sun?"
I am sure someone in Texas can good do as well, if not better with the cabinets. If you look CLOSELY at some of those Kenrick videos they are guilty of some fairly questionable shit (with the small details)
They've definitely got a hell of a finish man and that covers up a lot.
They also cover up a lot by painting all their drivers.
YES, their product is STUNNING in the looks department.............but elsewhere? I wouldn't angst too much over Kenrick.
I do not know of anyone here though that does as well (verified) total turnkey restorations.
But there are definitely folks here, that in their respective departments are as good as it gets ("edgewound" for one)
You should be able to do it here as well or better than Kenrick but you will most likely being dealing with at least two, maybe three tradespeople.
Are you able to do any of it yourself? The networks at least?
What eaxctly do you need done?

cgregory4
10-21-2015, 03:21 PM
I am sure someone in Texas can good do as well, if not better with the cabinets. If you look CLOSELY at some of those Kenrick videos they are guilty of some fairly questionable shit (with the small details)
They've definitely got a hell of a finish man and that covers up a lot.
They also cover up a lot by painting all their drivers.
YES, their product is STUNNING in the looks department.............but elsewhere? I wouldn't angst too much over Kenrick.
I do not know of anyone here though that does as well (verified) total turnkey restorations.
But there are definitely folks here, that in their respective departments are as good as it gets ("edgewound" for one)
You should be able to do it here as well or better than Kenrick but you will most likely being dealing with at least two, maybe three tradespeople.
Are you able to do any of it yourself? The networks at least?
What eaxctly do you need done?

Sir,

Thank you for your excellent response to my original inquiry. I am somewhat familiar with a portion of the huge capabilities of the forum -- and am humbled by the majority of technical posts, which are difficult for me -- Oilfield trash, but BSEE 1971 -- to understand. :) Several forum members have done work for me, and 'edgewound' and I have a project 'on deck' -- just waiting for my cancer to let me get a bit stronger.

But it puzzles me that a 'one stop shop' for JBL restoration is not available in the country that birthed the brand. Just an observation (A sad one I suppose.), and certainly not a criticism. Certainly lesser USA brands have shops dedicated to restoring various audiophile components -- often at twice the original price. But they seem to be doing OK .... if not thriving.

Specifically, at this time I have no such candidate for restoration. My recent discovery of another original, one-owner set of 4350s, was the impetus for the thread post. He wants an insane amount for the set. And they need work. But there are a few idiots like me in the world that will pay 'through the nose' for a nice original set of anyone of a number of models, and pay just as much to have them restored to new (or better.)

The marketing genius of Kenrick is amazing to me. And I have no doubt that they cross the 'original' line from time to time. But, they do rekindle the vintage JBL fire.

Again, thanks for the response, and I have one suggested contact to act upon, so the thread has been useful from several perspectives.

Greg

I still don't know where all the DD65000s went. ;)

Wagner
10-21-2015, 05:16 PM
But it puzzles me that a 'one stop shop' for JBL restoration is not available in the country that birthed the brand. Just an observation (A sad one I suppose.), and certainly not a criticism. Certainly lesser USA brands have shops dedicated to restoring various audiophile components -- often at twice the original price. But they seem to be doing OK .... if not thriving.
Don't know how much "thriving" is going on, or why you are "puzzled".
After all, you're also talking the same "country" that has allowed the company proper, JBL, to die a protracted, painful and rather undignified death (as compared to it's former self and vision).

I just very recently required the services of an expert brass musical instrument service, as in capable of an all under one roof service capable of delivering impeccable results a for fine, rare and collectible horn. I was in need of a complete rebuild as well as a new lacquer finish.

It doesn't exist, although with at least ONE sublet (the lacquer) my goal was accomplished with reasonable results. It took almost 1 year to get the job done. Probably Wynton Marsalis doesn't have these problems, but the rest of us (the unwashed) do.

Plenty of SUPERB "one stop shop" luthiers though, thanks primarily to Nashville, Tennessee!

It is a "new world order" in the good old U.S.A. and that's just the way it is. Not saying that such a service does not exist or cannot be had, I am saying that if they're out there they keep a very low profile.

cgregory4
10-21-2015, 06:56 PM
Don't know how much "thriving" is going on, or why you are "puzzled".
After all, you're also talking the same "country" that has allowed the company proper, JBL, to die a protracted, painful and rather undignified death (as compared to it's former self and vision).

I just very recently required the services of an expert brass musical instrument service, as in capable of an all under one roof service capable of delivering impeccable results for fine, rare and collectible horn. I was in need of a complete rebuild as well as a new lacquer finish.

It doesn't exist, although with at least ONE sublet (the lacquer) my goal was accomplished with reasonable results. It took almost 1 year to get the job done. Probably Wynton Marsalis doesn't have these problems, but the rest of us (the unwashed) do.

Plenty of SUPERB "one stop shop" luthiers though, thanks primarily to Nashville, Tennessee!

It is a "new world order" in the good old U.S.A. and that's just the way it is. Not saying that such a service does not exist or cannot be had, I am saying that if they're out there they keep a very low profile.

Very wise words, sir, and I do appreciate the the full weight of your statement.

Greg

Ducatista47
10-21-2015, 08:48 PM
If saeman - Rick - is still active, he is most likely what you are looking for. His cabinet build will be 100%, whether he needs to craft new wood and mdf or not. I didn't ask how or where, but since he also builds from scratch he obviously can source any vintage driver needs and tune ups. His work is amazing, and if it is what you want he can make you think it just came off the production line. 43xx large monitors, vintage B series subwoofers, and I don't know what else. I didn't talk prices, but it might be possible that he could produce new units for about the same as paying dearly for vintage speakers and refurbing them. No promise there, but it is a possibility. Unless you want every stick to be original, I think sourcing him a trashed pair and going with new cabinets makes sense in some situations.

For an unfortunately late friend in Florida he restored a subwoofer and took a tired pair of 4350s and sent them back to him a new looking pair of 4355s. Ian Mackenzie was with me at Rick's place for the visit, ask him about it. At that time Rick was working full time at his other business, so it might take time.

Wagner
10-21-2015, 09:11 PM
If saeman - Rick - is still active, he is most likely what you are looking for. His cabinet build will be 100%, whether he needs to craft new wood and mdf or not. I didn't ask how or where, but since he also builds from scratch he obviously can source any vintage driver needs and tune ups. His work is amazing, and if it is what you want he can make you think it just came off the production line. 43xx large monitors, vintage B series subwoofers, and I don't know what else. I didn't talk prices, but it might be possible that he could produce new units for about the same as paying dearly for vintage speakers and refurbing them. No promise there, but it is a possibility. Unless you want every stick to be original, I think sourcing him a trashed pair and going with new cabinets makes sense in some situations.

For an unfortunately late friend in Florida he restored a subwoofer and took a tired pair of 4350s and sent them back to him a new looking pair of 4355s. Ian Mackenzie was with me at Rick's place for my visit, ask him about it. At that time Rick was working full time at his other business, so it might take time.
That's the rub; I know for a fact that the talent and skill is (still) out there.
You may have to look for it, but it's still there.
It's the unfortunate reality however that most of the folks who possess it don't do it for a living or aren't operating as a "shop" if that is understood, and therein lies the frustration.

This situation is what forced me about 8 years ago to begin taking on more and more of the elements of my various projects myself. This approach has proven to be a mixed Blessing; on the one hand I have enjoyed a great deal of satisfaction and learned much, on the other, at times, not so much. Primarily as to the quality of the finished results, as much for the lack of the proper tools and work space as for the lack of talent.

Results from excellent, good to mediocre, I am constantly reminded that I should have started in on some of these skills long ago; difficult to get the hang of all involved when one is fast approaching 60.

tomt
10-21-2015, 11:01 PM
Good morning, sir,

How many square feet (or acres :)) in your room. What is the floor covering? Beautiful .... just hugely gorgeous!

Greg

PS -- I am curious about the placement/orientation of the 2405s .... and your rationale.

those aren't mine.

https://www.google.com/search?tbs=sbi:AMhZZisP56ynEc4kGUd9gMGmydPNGo9RcGu m-tS5VIuoLnQmUzhrX4ZphOFvoFpsnpj2bFJ56bxfklS4VPo7mJw 95qEtFTkMq6wHfzSwhfn2zUFNr7pFSfBvE4jTGVKsiJztn7C54 nl4rWCJnM2IfIKLg_1M5nGG1CvLXTBAXHxgmLZGV_1nvNC60oK woIVtpqel9yf4DluI9OYUvFaJ2whYdCbGXgQNuVdJVp0FCE6LF iBVjHNn4AT2eew0SqH0rUkGMXsuQ7qRnZkTYaStFCwIOaQxZUc Wsdb1uTCwf5zGM5ziNV8C68Pe7ZXJPqhlCiKPiHZcQFSUgeoyf FDgf49TvSRPg4SnNqEe5St7ORI5tYgCaGBZPS2PR0JnAuAjxDs O3Hh-wbdj9icLNGjb06Fs0KsMp26-EEEqplCrZIf55dufI9DECR0jwk4Hg_1XoEm7y1_1d320n3UYgz-em15xsXsGOD8ASIZFzdZ8cWjeIxuljz69bBfU-eWa4oL0-gbOG5OPEyZP7PKhWC6PmKaPccAbOIXKg2SzcChyr7dkUDmhDJF KX4u9t8_1a07fPwQtb3ln9XPxCZkeEJWm5HqSuHEvouASDk69H WusZcKt4xfSKfjtHAI9QxnKSphSrE7rshCSVd2T2XtSrOO2qEX OO2fxoaXc72oAFhtwRKO3dYIeY1c5r0u7drPr0AwpFNZjk64Pl IVWCChBxDKoExzBxqh0FP9Y_1WKykr7hjOjeT0VkCF3fpgEvVK 4dqZaHUzyuyGxUXlVMcDnEb2cs8OUQVeOBZf5RZixZo_1yyYha yFkS3rzXggiwY4RVIxfdIFHefQMwvO6o6yZ4A6bF9CW2jKx5rN xsriK9_1ob680N3eZKOb_19INSrGiusNuemmYDG20JSL-rT8kMUCJ6jhiSMu5wmAT8vHU2gw7SFLo9xafvUMnTGzz3-21KAYhx7LauCxkyuvDbuIpj4HBqGRpyCUuL1OphgmwiIH9RejQ tw5f1tlLqwT1t_14Mog18kRXVKNPvYnYf6gFkVOYJ70A5G_1NT IuSNJVpVMgILA0HRJr81k0jtmKEx2-YiQVaZFUEL343fENhQef3ql8Ea2uXhTbOPd34FBxveWiZDvNsN f2SsLmWpyxGmpniTXS0bRE7E2xfhw-a0uHTs19i6YHikwF2wEQD9o98cXhzcmoLhrArs7L0wF0UTtgFP banPaqf8xqvCDDnAFZpcd8abeqOsViKl_1Mu_1X86c2wrGC92O eXj46XX9rXC8CelodNsw087HvUQGEYA62uiACNO5KXXrpVMSSa AT_1eNvF5YVqDAlF_1Sx6T31qMm_1gp4XUS_1qkg38RVGtf9nJ 6mtf3I6RKTtdpwv97CODERt0huliwp5_1rdNPAfUDMq5Q7dk2X TUHsMov5yObHAgQhR6rZDSsUD_1kbnLvecKi5FdhdIv8yNEf4V hLbMo8wqO67j0X5_1o0ZXRBGfMc8pwIG-CXskNcZfCZQK8Thz5tsAzyn7jzlG2PkPOaKYVxiVb52r7jsrLs&ei=uXMoVtLeFYq0jwORvIXoAQ&start=10&sa=N&biw=1338&bih=641&dpr=0.9

cgregory4
10-22-2015, 03:00 AM
those aren't mine.


That thread, sir, contains some serious 'eye candy'. Well worth the look! :bouncy: Thank you.

Greg

Ducatista47
10-22-2015, 02:21 PM
I am constantly reminded that I should have started in on some of these skills long ago; difficult to get the hang of all involved when one is fast approaching 60.

Or sixty-eight. I was fortunate to have a 1950s upbringing by a 1950s do it yourself enthusiast dad who was into audio personally and professionally. And unfortunate that I was a typical distracted kid who could have learned one hundred times as much as I did. It is fun learning now, but if only...

Last night I was doing some maintenance on his 1953 Shop Smith, which is still my table saw.

300_Summit
12-28-2015, 07:27 PM
There is a guy in Peoria, IL (Don Baker) that has a shop (Electronics Diversified) that does excellent work. My father FINALLY gave me his L-300's, which had been sitting in the basement for the last 35 years collecting dust (and God knows what else). I took them to EDI back in Sept. and they are being refurbished as we speak, i.e., new 2235H cones, clean/refinish cabinets, new base, new grille fabric etc. Should have them in a couple weeks. He sent me a sneak peak pic about a month ago.

689426894368944

jpw
12-30-2015, 03:48 PM
Regarding where are all the DD-65000's, I was told directly by then national sales manager of Harman International, Ron Rouse, that the 65 was added to the Everest line up below the 67 (after the 66 was discontinued) for the Japanese market. My question was prompted by how close in price point the 65 and 67 were. My thought was that anybody (Japanese or American) that had north of $40-$50k would buy the top of the line 67 and bypass the 65. It turns out I was right. The 65 did not sell so JBL discontinued them after only 12-18 months on the market. I heard the 65 only briefly at a show where it was hard to judge the bass response because of the room they were in. It had a softer attack to the treble than the 67 so it was a bit more forgiving sounding but not quite as detailed.