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gtimbers
09-30-2015, 10:26 PM
I was unceremoniously separated from employment by Harman following a 90 second explanation. My position was eliminated! Following an explanation of benefits, I was escorted out. The timing came as a surprise and as such, I haven't thought about my future plans. While I don't need to work financially, I need to be active and challenged so I must figure out what makes sense for me going forward. To be clear, this is not what I wanted or deserved, but I will not comment further on details until a much later date. My decision, not theirs.It was a good run and I am very pleased that I have brought so many people enjoyment with the products I have developed over the last 4 decades. Once things settle down, I hope to be more available on the forum, but I need some time to adjust.My best wishes to all you JBL fans. Treat your products well and enjoy them while you can.Best Regards,Greg Timbers

bubbleboy76
09-30-2015, 10:48 PM
I am speechless... What the... !

But probably, now you can design even better sounding systems in the future (if you want to), free from the commercial interests of the big corporation.

Maybe this is a case of the Peter principle? I find this amusing, that all large corporations, by nature, in the end are managed by incompetent persons on all levels. Just ask Volkswagen!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle

BMWCCA
09-30-2015, 11:13 PM
I'm only sorry to hear the news because it wasn't by your own choice. I appreciate that you've brought it to our attention and proud that you think of yourself as one of us. My favorite systems are those in which you had a hand and I am grateful that you had such a positive impact on the way I enjoy music.

All the best and I hope we'll hear from you again soon and often.

:hmm:

We've been talking about the end of an era at JBL for a few years, but this clinches it for me! So sad.

Hoerninger
09-30-2015, 11:26 PM
thank you for the time.
__________
Peter

ivica
10-01-2015, 01:09 AM
I was unceremoniously separated from employment by Harman following a 90 second explanation. My position was eliminated! Following an explanation of benefits, I was escorted out. The timing came as a surprise and as such, I haven't thought about my future plans. While I don't need to work financially, I need to be active and challenged so I must figure out what makes sense for me going forward. To be clear, this is not what I wanted or deserved, but I will not comment further on details until a much later date. My decision, not theirs.It was a good run and I am very pleased that I have brought so many people enjoyment with the products I have developed over the last 4 decades. Once things settle down, I hope to be more available on the forum, but I need some time to adjust.My best wishes to all you JBL fans. Treat your products well and enjoy them while you can.Best Regards,Greg Timbers

Dear Mr. G.T.,
I have been amassed while reading this post, and I believe that most of this Forum members would be sorry while reaching this information, that JBL legendary Mr.G.T. will not continue to improve JBL product in the unselfish way as He has done in last 43 years ( what a coincidence - number 43 - for the novice: do read more about 43xx studio monitors ), but his work would leave non hide-able groves in JBL engineering profile. To day we are aware of the statement that most of the engineering production company are "led" by the PEOPLE for home ONLY Stock-exchange index are the only reference without any future vision. We can remember the name "ALTEC (Lancing)" what is was, and what it is now, in the audio field.
Me, as a AH Forum member, would enjoy in the opportunity that respectable Mr.G.T., would spend some more time with us, giving to us a piece of his enormous knowledge and experience in the science of sound, and engineering trade-offs, that would effectively lead us to the more realistic reproduction of music, and voices.

Best Regards
Ivica

kelossus
10-01-2015, 01:17 AM
Tragic news mate. To me, you were always synonymous with JBL.

I tend to gravitate towards speakers you designed and will pretty much buy anything if it is a Greg Timbers design/influence.

Appreciate all you have done and am excited that you are gonna be around here to contribute a bit more!

All the best in future endeavors and I am sure if you wanted to pursue work in a similar field you would have quite the CV.

martin2395
10-01-2015, 01:43 AM
Oh wow, that's bad! Can't find a better description other than the Harman acted like ungrateful scumbags.
The name "Greg Timbers" was a synonym for JBL for many years and it will always remain that.
I know, I know it's not the time for jokes but.....43 years, could it have something to do with the '43 series?:dont-know:

A BIG thank you to you for all your knowledge, time and effort.

Odd
10-01-2015, 02:01 AM
Thanks for many fine products through many years.

Hope you will spend some of your time here on the forum.

macaroonie
10-01-2015, 02:02 AM
Greg , I would like to offer a big thank you for the many fantastic designs you have had a hand in over the years and the pleasure that you have given me and many many others.

Sorry to hear of your sudden walk to the car park , Harman do make some very strange decisions.

The very best wishes for the future Greg , I'm certain that when the dust settles you will find avenues in which to apply your considerable talents.

Mac

baldrick
10-01-2015, 02:37 AM
I'm totall in shock how Harman can treat the sngle most imortant person in JBLs history this way, it makes me just sad.

The only positive thing about this is that we might see more of you here Mr Timbers!

We are so many that appriciate what you have done, hope this is not the final end of Your creations!

Doc Mark
10-01-2015, 04:48 AM
Good Morning, Greg,

Many thanks for sharing this sad news with us, and for your very even explanation of how things went down for you, literally and figuratively, when you got the word. As has already been said, you most certainly deserved better, and I am sad, mad, and quite ashamed of JBL for doing what they did, and for the manner in which they did it!! Like others, I get joy from your designs every single day, and very seldom do I listen to our L300's, or think about the 4-way, 4345-inspired system that is in the works, or look at the L250's that still wait for me to get time to get them up and running, that I do not think of you, Sir, and all that you did for those of us who love the "real JBL" systems!!! HUZZAH!! to you for all that you have done, and for all that you will, I'm sure, continue to do, in the loudspeaker design arena!!! For JBL to be so callous about all this, is short-sighted, mean-spirited, and ignorant, IMHO. But, it does show just how much things have changed since the "good old days" at that company. To me, you were the heart of JBL, and also their "soul", keeping them in touch with their roots, all the while continuing to design new and innovative systems!!! Thank you, thank you, thank you, Greg, for all you have done for us, and also for being a down-to-earth, regular guy, who loves what he does!!! It was great meeting you at Doug and Annie's, a few years ago, when Howard Durbin also joined us (he came with my friend, Bob Walker)!! Keep the faith, my friend, and my wife and I wish you all the very best, in whatever you decide to do in the future!!!! Whatever you decide to do, I know you will be a success!! Take care, and God Bless!!

Every Good Wish,
Doc Mark

NickH
10-01-2015, 05:41 AM
Well Greg I'm very sorry to hear that. This kind of stuff really makes me mad about modern companies. You give them years of your life and when they let you go they treat you like a criminal. I work in research labs primarily for the oil business. I experienced this first hand when I was laid off a couple months ago. Modern companies treat people like shit and expect you to ask for more with a smile on your face. Sorry for the bad word.

I wish you the best of luck and I hope you figure out something that you enjoy, preferable working for yourself.


Nick

srm51555
10-01-2015, 05:41 AM
With the GT name behind the speakers you we confident a good, well developed product was produced, without it they are just like all of the others speaker manufactures. They will eventually regret this, probably not today, tomorrow, or even this year. The sad thing is they will never even know it because if it's like anywhere else management turns over every two years. Thank you for all you have done.

Mannermusic
10-01-2015, 05:45 AM
Hey Greg. Been there! Seems this is pretty much SOP in the corporate universe these days. New people come in and have a new "vision" (complete with blinders). Management blows up, the game changes. Check out George Packer's, The Unwinding. A lot of us are going through it. Appreciated all your submissions here in the forum! Stuff I would never find elsewhere - basis for my DIY 4-way (never ending) experiment. Mike

Don McRitchie
10-01-2015, 05:50 AM
This is sickening. I too am speechless. I'll weigh in with more detail once I let this news sink in. For now, my condolences and expression of disgust with Harman management on this development.

SEAWOLF97
10-01-2015, 06:10 AM
Greg :

I too, am sorry to hear this development , but somehow not surprised. As I understand it, Ed May was separated (dumped ?) by JBL when he turned the mandatory retirement age of 65 , and he still had a lot to give. Ed went on to Marantz where he enjoyed a second wind at speaker design.

Have no doubt that you will land on your feet and most likely end up consulting. That could give you time to do desired projects a'la Nelson Pass.

Thanx for your great years of design. I use many of your products daily.

TOM

caladois
10-01-2015, 06:54 AM
I have no word. And I hope you will find time to contribute to our forum.
Stéphane

cooky1257
10-01-2015, 07:13 AM
Greg,

In your good self JBL have had no finer ambassador for excellence and, in terms of this forum, they have benefited enormously from your genuinely helpful and generous contributions.

You deserved better, much much better.

Frank.

1audiohack
10-01-2015, 07:15 AM
Hello Greg!

I am sorry that you didn't get out on your own terms.

I am truly grateful to you. I love music and your speaker systems do a great job of delivering the goods. This has improved my quality of life, thank you.

I hope your future is bright and we get to share it with you in some way or another, as we have in the past.

All the best,
Barry Singleton.

Don C
10-01-2015, 07:26 AM
I sure have enjoyed listening to your designs over the years. I expect that you will find that your services are much in demand.

hjames
10-01-2015, 08:20 AM
Thank you for all you have done to bring smiles to so many folks.
We have enjoyed your designs and celebrate the great work you've done.

Rest well, chin up and know we are all on your side!

Thank you, sir!



Such a pity that it ends this way,


I was unceremoniously separated from employment by Harman following a 90 second explanation.\
Once things settle down, I hope to be more available on the forum, but I need some time to adjust.
My best wishes to all you JBL fans. Treat your products well and enjoy them while you can.Best Regards,Greg Timbers

Mr. Widget
10-01-2015, 08:58 AM
Damn! Those idiots never fail to amaze. They have taken an amazing legacy and repeatedly shown how they have no interest in this company or industry. I wish the people calling the shots had picked another industry to land in... this company which is dear to our hearts is certainly not dear to theirs.

Good luck in whatever endeavor you choose... and thank you for sharing this unfortunate news. I hope you are able to spend some time with us as we dabble in our hobby.


Widget

ronaltronics
10-01-2015, 09:20 AM
Thanks for all the brilliant loudspeakers over the 43 years Greg, wishing you the best moving forward.

On another note I was not certain which word I should use. So I will just list a few.

Disappointed,Disillusioned,dismayed,inconsolable,d isenchanted,disgruntled,crestfallen,bitter,dissati sfied:confused:.

4313B
10-01-2015, 09:40 AM
My position was eliminated!Oh! You mean the one where you design world class loudspeaker systems that people enjoy for generations and still talk about twenty, thirty, forty years after the fact?

Well everyone here wishes you only the best and I believe that we are all aware of just how much of a positive impact you have had on our lives. We love music and a vast majority of us listen to our music through your bountiful collection of wonderful creations.

I am really sorry to hear about this Greg...

JeffW
10-01-2015, 09:57 AM
What was the explanation?

Mr. Widget
10-01-2015, 10:25 AM
Oh! You mean the one where you design world class loudspeaker systems that people enjoy for generations and still talk about twenty, thirty, forty years after the fact?

Well everyone here wishes you only the best and I believe that we are all aware of just how much of a positive impact you have had on our lives. We love music and a vast majority of us listen to our music through your bountiful collection of wonderful creations.

I am really sorry to hear about this Greg...My thoughts exactly on all fronts. And I for one do listen to your speakers on an almost daily basis and they never fail to impress.


Widget

Robh3606
10-01-2015, 10:37 AM
Oh! You mean the one where you design world class loudspeaker systems that people enjoy for generations and still talk about twenty, thirty, forty years after the fact?

Well everyone here wishes you only the best and I believe that we are all aware of just how much of a positive impact you have had on our lives. We love music and a vast majority of us listen to our music through your bountiful collection of wonderful creations.

I am really sorry to hear about this Greg... I could not have said it better. Best of luck and good wishes. Hope to see you on the forum in the future. You have no idea how many peoples lives your work has brought happiness to through your amazing designs. I am DIY builder and your systems bring me so much joy and inspiration I couldn't thank you enough.

Rob:)

rdgrimes
10-01-2015, 11:12 AM
Might be time for a comprehensive list of Timbers designed systems, perhaps a dedicated thread? Cripes it would justify a separate forum.

RedCoat23
10-01-2015, 11:17 AM
What saddens me more than anything else is when the contribution that someone of your stature provides to the foundation of a company ends with such disrespectful treatment. Is this how you close 43 years of excellence..?
It is sad that those who came after have no memory or appreciation for the contribution of those who came before.

Be glad of this, you've now stepped outside of - IMHO - the greatest tragedy in our modern world - a toxic corporate environment.

Lynn Stout has a great book on one of the main problems of current corporate culture - The Shareholder Value Myth: How Putting Shareholders First Harms Investors, Corporations, and the Public (http://www.amazon.com/Shareholder-Value-Myth-Shareholders-Corporations/dp/1605098132)

I thank you for the pleasure the products you've designed have brought into our lives and I look forward to reading more of your posts on here in the future

Best Regards

Jason

rusty jefferson
10-01-2015, 12:04 PM
Hello Greg!

I am sorry that you didn't get out on your own terms.

I am truly grateful to you. I love music and your speaker systems do a great job of delivering the goods. This has improved my quality of life, thank you. ....


Couldn't agree more.

The way corporate America treats it's people today is a disgrace. What a way to make money.

grumpy
10-01-2015, 12:13 PM
After 43 -days- I'd expect better.
After 43 years, this is family.
I'm sure many of them (still there and otherwise) are equally ... displeased.

I -am- pleased to have had the opportunity to meet you and other
industy guru/talent/leaders over at Doug's,
and wish you many interesting activities and projects
... if profitable, that's cool too, but mostly hope you have fun :)

best regards and wishes,

Dave (grumpy) Stowers.

fabrice11
10-01-2015, 12:21 PM
A page of the history JBL turns himself and the name of GT will stay associated in numerous mythical models of the mark

Amnes
10-01-2015, 12:33 PM
Interesting...

I wish you a blast figuring out and living out your next thing whatever it will be.

All of your creations to date have been inspiring, so I have no doubt that whatever comes next will be even more rad.

Cheers!

Ed Kreamer
10-01-2015, 12:47 PM
Unbelievable!
Or is it.

I too was dumped from employment from a radio station I worked at, after being told by the new station P.D. that he didn't like what I did, and that my next broadcast would be my last. That simple, that quick. I was dumbfounded as was the rest of the station staff. My consolation was that I went to work at another station, and that the P.D. was terminated himself. (The mortality rate is high in radio.) I mention this to offer my perspective. Companies what ever they do or create seem to go from the visionaries who create them, to solid competent management, to dimwits who can't find their posteriors with both hands without the aid of a mirror.

My condolences to you Mr. Timbers, and to let you know of the many hours of enjoyment your productive genius have given me.

Shalom

Ed

hlaari
10-01-2015, 01:14 PM
this is proof how companies think this days, no respect to the people who build up the companies with many great ideas

Greg Timbers I wish you all the best
thank you for all the great JBL speakers you have made all this 43 years


hlaari (Ari Oskarsson)

hsosdrum
10-01-2015, 01:26 PM
Greg:

Being able to work with you during my four years at JBL was a privilege, and was one of the highlights of my career as a technical writer. Your designs provide the absolutely magical illusion that real, live human beings are creating music in the here-and-now, and I was honored to have been able to contribute in a very small way to some of them by creating their user manuals, and to have been able to listen to and provide a small amount of feedback on them.

The shabby way you were treated by Harman at the end mirrors my own experience and that of the others in my department a couple of years ago. Although since then I have entertained notions of returning to work for Harman, after today I no longer do. I wish you the very best, and look forward to enjoying the future results of your seemingly endless skill, talent, curiosity and energy.

-Hyam Sosnow (hsosdrum)

dn92
10-01-2015, 01:32 PM
Dear Mr. Timbers,

Many thanks for all of your work and what you gave to us. JBL as it is now, was not able to thank you in an appropriate way. I hope that we can do this instead of them, from everywhere in the World.

Big compagnies are now integrators of solutions that they buy elsewhere, they do not recognise technical expertise anymore, having lost their identity and knowledge. We are living in a stupid world.

I wish you success for anything you will do from now.

Didier

Paris, France

opimax
10-01-2015, 02:04 PM
Greg,

I too thank you for all you have done! I wont focus on actual termination and just go home and crank up my 250 ti (both sets), b460 and the rest of the TI systems I have

Mark

4343
10-01-2015, 02:07 PM
Stunned.:eek:

Titanium Dome
10-01-2015, 02:22 PM
I was unceremoniously separated from employment by Harman following a 90 second explanation. My position was eliminated! Following an explanation of benefits, I was escorted out. The timing came as a surprise and as such, I haven't thought about my future plans. While I don't need to work financially, I need to be active and challenged so I must figure out what makes sense for me going forward. To be clear, this is not what I wanted or deserved, but I will not comment further on details until a much later date. My decision, not theirs.It was a good run and I am very pleased that I have brought so many people enjoyment with the products I have developed over the last 4 decades. Once things settle down, I hope to be more available on the forum, but I need some time to adjust.My best wishes to all you JBL fans. Treat your products well and enjoy them while you can.Best Regards,Greg Timbers

^^THIS^^ compels me to take the time to post.

Buddha once commented that "A candle's light is not diminished by lighting another candle." In fact, it produces twice the light. The candle of your brilliance has ignited countless other candles. Even when Harman tries to snuff the candle and throw it out, it's still burning brightly. You are the original light for a lot of music lovers who learned to love music better and in more intimate ways through the speakers that you and your colleagues developed. Certainly, I was enlightened by your work, as were hundreds and thousands of others, including many right here.

Some of us were especially blessed to spend three wonderful evenings with you over three years at the Lansing Heritage Awards, and we got to meet, see, and honor many of the other wonderful folks who worked with you to produce such satisfying products for us. We got to see the smart, funny, warm man behind the products who was generous with his time and talent all the time, not just on one SoCal evening a year.

Harman can never extinguish your light, and there are many more unlit candles waiting for your next move.

Peace, Love, and Rock 'n'Roll!

gmarascortt
10-01-2015, 03:39 PM
So sorry to hear this Greg.
Long live the 250 Ti and all of your accomplishments in your storied career at JBL!

duaneage
10-01-2015, 04:05 PM
Work for Bose and really get even.
When they hustle you out the door it's really personal
One minute you are a part of something then your an outcast
i went through that 7 years ago and today make twice as much.
Success is the best revenge

audiomagnate
10-01-2015, 04:06 PM
Wow. Nothing shocks me anymore, but this did. I'm turning my badges upside down. As stunned as you must feel right now, I'm sure this will turn out to be a positive life event for you. I eagerly look forward to your first non-corporate greed-hindered project. I consider all of your designs, and the 1400 Array in particular, true works of art. Best wishes.

DingDing
10-01-2015, 04:14 PM
My heart just dropped. What a sick world we live in... What a disgusting way to treat someone who has been a key employee for decades.

LowPhreak
10-01-2015, 04:28 PM
It takes some gall, and sociopathic tendencies, to terminate then escort someone like G.T. immediately out of the building like that after what he's done for JBL and Harman, and the audio world generally. How vacuous can you be? It seems to be only getting worse in the Orwellian U.S. Maybe it's past the time for decent people to GTHO.

I must say though, Harman's handling of a customer service issue was enough to permanently turn me against the brand for future purchases. This gutless act towards G.T. just seals it for me.

I wish you the best, Greg, and by the way - thanks for your effort on the Studio 500 series, among many others. :)

spkrman57
10-01-2015, 04:56 PM
Unfortunately this the way of business nowdays.

It is because of individuals such as yourself that I had great ideas to come to life.

Thank you for all your contributions past and I hope for some time to continue!

Regards, Ron

DavidF
10-01-2015, 05:28 PM
Ouch! No class. No dignity. All sense of belonging and holding a mission suddenly stripped off. I guess the next bummer will be not having shelves of drivers, parts and tools at hand with all sorts of folks to run tests for you. On the other hand, no month end reports, fighting over budgets, dealing with petty politics.

One thing all here share, even those holding on to a faint fond hope about Harman, is a total sour taste with the corporation behind some really fine audio equipment. From now on I have Timbers Arrays. Not JBL Arrays.

Fangio
10-01-2015, 05:38 PM
Unbelievable, after 43 (!) years. Good luck for your future GT.

wsilva
10-01-2015, 06:36 PM
Harman let go G.T. ?

To me that is like the Vatican giving marching orders to God.

Crazy world we live in.

Mr. Widget
10-01-2015, 09:14 PM
From now on I have Timber Arrays. Not JBL Arrays.I'm enjoying my Timbers Everests as I type this.

I'm sure I'm not alone in hoping that GT keeps a hand in the game in a new incarnation. There are many options out there... taking a well deserved vacation being a good first step. Oh, and "screw the bastards".


Widget

Don McRitchie
10-01-2015, 09:17 PM
Greg

I’ve had the day to let the impact of your severance from Harman sink in and it hasn’t lessened one iota. I can’t imagine that it has for you either, but maybe you’re a better man at this than I am. It absurd on so many levels – it’s absurdly illogical, it’s absurdly counterproductive and it’s absurdly insulting.

As I think you are aware, my start as an audiophile coincided with your start at JBL and it was your L300 that was the first audio gear that I ever lusted after. In the 80’s and 90’s, JBL’s exposure in my local market went lower and lower, to the point that I wasn’t aware at the time that you continued to turn out superlative products like the L250 and XPL. I don’t think I was alone in my ignorance. I think it’s fair to say that, at least the high end market, largely ignored JBL at that time.

What the market didn’t foresee was that you would continue turn out product of such excellence that it ultimately could not be ignored. Your signature designs are now regarded at the pinnacle of the art. Harman obviously doesn’t value this, but the thousands of owners of your work most certainly do.

At the end of the day, this event was obviously something out of your control. What this action will never diminish is your legacy of accomplishment at JBL because that was completely within your control.

Regards
Don

pos
10-02-2015, 01:50 AM
I don't know what to say. I am speechless, and have been since I read the post yesterday...
First JBL stops servicing their emblematic components and statement loudspeakers, and now they turn their back to their emblematic and statement employee?
This is not only inelegant and rude, but also stupid.

Ducatista47
10-02-2015, 04:33 AM
I am sorry for the shabby treatment you received at the end. Next to "living well is the best revenge", one of the best things you could do is to take some other talent with you to your next endeavor. Jerry Morro, for instance, if he has not already heard a 90 second explanation, could depart to continue his relationship with your team.

Presumptuous I know. I don't know your circumstances with your colleagues, just a thought. I - and others here, I am certain - would urinate on a spark plug if it would help you continue with your passion.

bubbleboy76
10-02-2015, 05:20 AM
It is maybe not polite to ask, but how old is Greg?
I am hoping 65, then my 4365:s are the perfect number for the last brand new speakers from Harman I will ever buy.
Due to this.

svollmer
10-02-2015, 10:25 AM
I used to have a pair of 240Ti’s. Like many, I really wanted the 250Ti, but couldn’t afford them. Some time in the mid to late 90’s I called JBL to ask them if it would be possible to purchase the additional 8” midrange and crossover and using the 240’s components make my own 250Ti’s. I naively thought I could build proper cabinets and just add the parts.

Anyway, I made the call thinking there was only a 5% chance someone at JBL would even discuss it with me. I was routed to a very nice gentleman who told me all about the 250Ti, including the sloping front baffle that I hadn’t accounted for, how to go about making my own cabinets, and even where I could get the no-longer-available crossovers.

We talked for at least 30 minutes and it was a great conversation. Before saying goodbye, I asked the kind man for his name in case I decided to go through with the project and needed some advice. He was quick to say he’d be happy to talk to me again if I needed help. When he said his name was Greg Timbers, I almost dropped the phone.

Greg: you are the epitome of class. As many have said, our lives have been bettered because of your work. Thank you!

One unsolicited suggestion: start your own small high-end company. I think Greg Timbers Audio, or GTA has a nice ring. J

dn92
10-02-2015, 10:41 AM
What about organizing an international petition to ask Harman's CEO to address official excuses to Greg Timbers. May be, if this is really anoying, he will thank the guilty guy under him in less than 90 seconds. :applaud:

It is not a matter of age, there are plenty of talentuous senior employees for whom the employer has to say that it is time from now to stop working together. It is the way how this was handled (I know it is a usual procedure in USA to fire people in some seconds) for an employee who brought probably billions to this company, at least a small ceremony would have been more appropriate.

dn92

DynaMax
10-02-2015, 11:00 AM
Well .. Very sad news.
Greg Timbers became a star on my sky decades ago for the speaker designs he did.
Thanks to that I went into Harman 2006 but was dumped by a Harman decission in Europe years later - despite I had put HUGE efforts into JBL.
I was driven by passion but wiped out like a dog who had dirt on its feet.
That left me with a feeling that the biggest assholes are the ones who wears the nicest suits.
There are MANY MANY VERY NICE suites in Harman management.
Obviously they all don't know - or have forgotten - what Greg Timbers did for JBL.
If relations must be stopped for some reasons or other, at least do it nice.
Shame on them assholes.

Take good care Mr. Timbers, Thank you SO much for all the good advise I got from you regarding fine tuning my DD66000 as we corresponded in 2012.
I am sure your phone will call very soon from the many out there who really admires you for your skills in speaker designs.

Very best regards
Hans-Henrik Sannerúd
dynamax.dk

BMWCCA
10-02-2015, 11:02 AM
Greg: you are the epitome of class. As many have said, our lives have been bettered because of your work. Thank you!

One unsolicited suggestion: start your own small high-end company. I think Greg Timbers Audio, or GTA has a nice ring. J
I couldn't agree with you more. My aggravation grows every time I think about how this was handled. Our problem is we love JBL and Greg's designs so much we think we have some stake in the operation of the company. But it's now even more obvious this company couldn't care less what we think, what the public thinks, or what the future of the JBL name is. Waterproof Bluetooth speakers in bright colors seems to be their claim to fame today.

On a new startup from Mr. Timbers, I suppose some of the reason for the quick and un-ceremonial way in Greg was shown the door had to do with his unique designs and creations which are not his property. I can't see why Moron International (excuse me Heather, that should be Harman) would actually care if they're parting with the creator of their innovations, but who knows. Greg would have to start from scratch. Too bad there's not a viable business model to be made for the maintenance and upgrading of existing legacy products from the now JBL-We-Don't-Care-About-Your-Products company. But then if Kenji can make a killing off re-purposing old 43xx systems, think what a Timbers Design reproduction or upgrade would do! If Andrew Jones can make a living selling his name to Pioneer (yeah, I know they're pretty much out of the audio biz now), then what is the Timbers name (and expertise) worth in the high-end speaker market?

After the whole Altec-Lansing, Jim Lansing, JBL name game, I wonder if Harman even owns the rights to the name Lansing anymore? How 'bout a new line of Lansing Heritage speakers with the Greg Timbers signature on them?

I know Gerald Stanley has made it almost 50-years at Crown. Is he next, or has he also been purged by the Harman Board? :banghead:

JuniorJBL
10-02-2015, 11:07 AM
Hi Greg,

This is saddening to hear the designer of the speakers I have always loved has been "Escorted out" of what most would call a long living legacy.

I will always remember the evenings in LA that we all had to enjoy your company and talk shop with you!! :)

My best friend of 40 years (who has passed) and I started listening to JBL's at the age of 9. We started with a pair of 4301B's and drove them with a Pioneer SX780 receiver and it was a daily ritual to listen everyday after school and all summer long. Thankfully I was able to share our LA get-together with him and give him the the signed article before he passed. It meant a lot to both of us and he admired you by always pointing out that Greg made these!!

I would like to wish you the best for the future and can't imagine there would not be lots of companies knocking down your door to work with them.


Thanks for all of your contributions to this hobby of ours for so many years.


Shane

dr_gallup
10-02-2015, 11:26 AM
First let me say I'm very sorry Mr. Timbers for what happened, I'm sure you loved your job and took great pride in your accomplishments.

Second, it never ceases to amaze me how we can go from valued employee with the run of the office/lab/computer systems/etc., staying late, working weekends to persona non grata in the blink of an eye. Here is a box, empty your desk, turn in your badge, vacate the premises, don't come back. I know it is a shocking experience, I hope you are taking it well. The last time it happened to me I knew it was coming and didn't take it personally, they laid off the entire 50 person engineering department. I went home and opened a bottle of champagne to celebrate the future. Good luck in what ever direction you take.

Ducatista47
10-02-2015, 11:48 AM
Too bad there's not a viable business model to be made for the maintenance and upgrading of existing legacy products from the now JBL-We-Don't-Care-About-Your-Products company. But then if Kenji can make a killing off re-purposing old 43xx systems, think what a Timbers Design reproduction or upgrade would do!
I imagine the gentleman at GPA knows a thing or two about all this, and is willing to share his knowledge and more. His business model includes new driver designs, does it not?

LowPhreak
10-02-2015, 11:54 AM
"Behind every great fortune lies a great crime." - Honore de Balzac


This being no doubt only one of many behind Harman's. It's hard to think of a fitting pejorative for these asshats.

BMWCCA
10-02-2015, 11:58 AM
I imagine the gentleman at GPA knows a thing or two about all this, and is willing to share his knowledge and more. His business model includes new driver designs, does it not?

OT, but I thought there was speculation that Great Plains Audio was folding? :dont-know:

SEAWOLF97
10-02-2015, 12:28 PM
I have a friend who was laid off from a company where he worked 20 years. They treated him about the same way. (he had grown to be a thorn in their sides)

He called me that evening , still in near tears, and I laid the old "when one door closes, another opens" on him. It was true and now he's at a place where they value his experience.

I'm fairly sure that many companies have wished to have a GT on their payroll. If you still desire to work, maybe land in an even better situation ? I love my retirement time , but keep busy with lots & lots of projects.

Oh yeah ... when I left Intel (my decision, long commute every day killed me) , their policy was to get security to walk you out. My manager refused to punish me with a perp walk. He just said "when you are ready to leave, give me a call" and he walked me out with a final handshake.

Greg , you deserved better than what you got...

Valentin
10-02-2015, 12:59 PM
Wow Greg

hope you find a nice chalange soon
JBL and many of us will mis your contributions

rdgrimes
10-02-2015, 01:34 PM
One unsolicited suggestion: start your own small high-end company. I think Greg Timbers Audio, or GTA has a nice ring. J

Not a great idea for someone of retirement age to open that can of aggravation. But there are more than a few high-end speaker makers around who would make a home for a consultant. Wouldn't surprise me if Timbers' phone is already ringing with offers. If there's any justice in the universe, his only real problem will be in deciding which offer to take.

bigyank
10-02-2015, 02:10 PM
I too had the experience of being walked out the door after working at a company for a decade. One day you get top performer award and 8 weeks later, you're done. Greg, take it personal and make them pay. You are a force to be reckoned with in your discipline and I, as others do, look forward to your next chapter in life, whatever it might be.

carolax
10-02-2015, 03:49 PM
Sorry for you personally and professionally--it's a sorry sign of the times in corporate America--and sorry for the JBL brand. Those of us who go way back with JBL products (40+ years for me) have dreaded the day when JBL totally sold out its heritage and its luster. Maybe that day has come. This summer I replaced the last JBL's in my house, a pair of LSR28P studio monitors, with a pair of small ATC monitors. I felt like a bit of a turncoat from JBL (although the ATC's are beautifully engineered hardware done the old school way) but now maybe I don't feel so bad. Let us know what you're up to when you're up to it. My bet is you'll be happier.

badman
10-02-2015, 04:13 PM
You deserve better, and will wind up just fine I'm sure. I also was given a pretty disrespectful layoff last year (After 7 years not 43), but I'm somewhere much better now, better money, better work-life balance, and a more empowered role. I'm sure your next professional step will be a well-chosen improvement, be it retirement, consulting or a regular job-type-job.

If ever you want to hang out and talk shop or just spin some wax, I'm sure any socal boys from around here would be thrilled to roll out the red carpet. I certainly would polish the doorknob in Tustin if you wanted!

avliner
10-02-2015, 04:46 PM
+ 1 :(

What saddens me more than anything else is when the contribution that someone of your stature provides to the foundation of a company ends with such disrespectful treatment. Is this how you close 43 years of excellence..?
It is sad that those who came after have no memory or appreciation for the contribution of those who came before.

Be glad of this, you've now stepped outside of - IMHO - the greatest tragedy in our modern world - a toxic corporate environment.

Lynn Stout has a great book on one of the main problems of current corporate culture - The Shareholder Value Myth: How Putting Shareholders First Harms Investors, Corporations, and the Public (http://www.amazon.com/Shareholder-Value-Myth-Shareholders-Corporations/dp/1605098132)

I thank you for the pleasure the products you've designed have brought into our lives and I look forward to reading more of your posts on here in the future

Best Regards

Jason

1audiohack
10-02-2015, 08:53 PM
Buddha once commented that "A candle's light is not diminished by lighting another candle." In fact, it produces twice the light....

Sorry, it's only a 3dB increase. ;)

Barry.

Garry Margolis
10-02-2015, 10:52 PM
When I started at JBL in 1974, Greg patiently taught me how loudspeakers really worked. Over the next 17 years, I had the privilege of working with him on many projects, including some of the revered systems written about in this forum.

Greg's remarkable combination of engineering brilliance, great hearing, and impeccable taste, coupled with the talented fellow engineers who designed transducers alongside him and the manufacturing resources that could realize those designs, resulted in systems that were the best of their breed in their price ranges. When I left JBL, nearly 25 years ago, one of my major regrets was not being able to work with him any longer.

But I frequently think about Greg: how he'd tweak network designs to achieve subtle, almost infinitesimal improvements; how the 4315 was adopted by Polygram (Philips/Deutsche Grammophon) for their pressing plant QA -- they were VERY fussy; how the 4313 was a design success but a commercial flop -- the classical engineers loved it, but they were a tiny fraction of the market; how we built the Everest prototypes in separate enclosures for each transducer so we could get the angles properly set (although Greg's predicted angles turned out to be correct); how we listened to and decided to incorporate the first commercial use of bypass caps in passive networks; how he compressed the 12 cubic foot volume of his original 2245H subwoofer design into the ~ 5 cubic feet of the B460 by using a QB5 acoustical tuning and a BX22 external crossover/equalizer to get a 6th-order Butterworth response -- it's still the finest consumer subwoofer I've ever heard; how he used a Chebychev alignment for the woofers in the K2 to achieve the "faster" bass preferred by Japanese consumers; etc. etc. etc.

One of Greg's best designs never saw the light of day. Shortly before I left JBL, I heard his prototype XPL250s, which used a 3" titanium dome midrange instead of an LE5 cone variant. I wanted to steal them! -- they were incredible! -- but Greg insisted he was far from finished. He continued to improve the XPL250, but it was never released. However, Greg switched gears from four-way direct-radiator systems and, after the success of the K2, he went on to design HF compression driver systems that I've never had the opportunity to hear, but I'm certain they continued to demonstrate his brilliance.

I don't know any of the upper-level management people at Harman now, so I can't speak to their reasons for unceremoniously dumping Greg out the door. But I'm appalled, and I expect that every person who had the honor of working with him feels similarly. Harman didn't even allow his co-workers to give him a worthy sendoff. For shame!

I know that Greg continued at Harman well after he could have comfortably retired because of his love for his work. Whatever he decides to do now, I expect that it will be at least as brilliantly realized as his previous work, and I look forward to the results!

brutal
10-03-2015, 01:10 AM
Truly sad news in this thread.

I'm going to go hug my 250Ti's and B460 now.

richluvsound
10-03-2015, 01:22 AM
Dear Mr Timbers ,

I'm so sorry your time at JBL has ended in such a manner . These people have no integrity , honour , or anything else that resembles the notion of class .
This is a generation doomed to detroy itself and all the beauty around it . Take heart in the pleasure you have brought to us all and the hours of fun you've inspired in worshops , basements and attics around the world .

I'm positive your talents will not sit on the shelf for long ..... Perhaps a few collaberations like Jones/Timbers , Pass/ Timbers ..... Someone suggested a deserved vacation . I'd like to second that , and if that jounrney includes London it would be a pleasure to take you to dinner or lunch .

Head up, there are those that know the cost of everything and the value of nothing . Its been your mis-fortune to have just met some ;)



best wises , Richard ( richluvsound )

4313B
10-03-2015, 03:03 AM
I don't know any of the upper-level management people at Harman now, so I can't speak to their reasons for unceremoniously dumping Greg out the door.I can't imagine a scenario in which anyone would want to know them...

How would they be introduced to a person? "Hey! I'd like you to meet Mr. Jackass." - I mean, would anyone really want to meet Mr. Jackass? I think not.



It's great to hear from you Garry! We hope all is well with you and yours.

audiomagnate
10-03-2015, 05:11 AM
I can't imagine a scenario in which anyone would want to know them...

How would they be introduced to a person? "Hey! I'd like you to meet Mr. Jackass." - I mean, would anyone really want to meet Mr. Jackass? I think not.



It's great to hear from you Garry! We hope all is well with you and yours.

When Mitsubishi did the exact same thing to me in the 90's, traditional severance in the industry was one month current pay for every year of duty. If Harman followed that route that should have softened the blow a bit. Regarding the behavior of modern corporations:

Have they no shame? A: No, of course not. But they do have billions of dollars in the bank and I certainly hope they treated you right in that respect. It looks a bit like blatant age discrimination to me.

cooky1257
10-03-2015, 05:47 AM
It has been mooted elsewhere that the reason for such an abrupt(all too common) exit is to protect 'intellectual property'.

Given most of that intellectual property is already inside Greg's head makes it doubly stupid, crass and rude behaviour on the part of senior management.

speakerdave
10-03-2015, 10:29 AM
Good grief!

Sorry to hear about your troubles, Mr. Timbers. I've enjoyed the 4333A, the 4345 and the L212 in my own home, and the Everest II elsewhere, and have great respect for your work. I hope and trust this unexpected development will turn out well for you as events unfold.

LowPhreak
10-03-2015, 10:40 AM
It has been mooted elsewhere that the reason for such an abrupt(all too common) exit is to protect 'intellectual property'.

Given most of that intellectual property is already inside Greg's head makes it doubly stupid, crass and rude behaviour on the part of senior management.

That was the first thing that occurred to me, otherwise why ambush someone unless there's some animosity? I'd imagine and hope Greg already had his important work copied and filed separately.

loach71
10-03-2015, 11:13 AM
I suggest we start a crowdfunding campaign to finance a new company with the suggested name GT Loudspeakers or 'GTL'. The purpose of this company would be to design build and market top-of-the line drivers / loudspeakers, while employing Greg Timbers and the other former designers from JBL. Capturing a significant fraction of JBL's market share, the proposed company would teach JBL to respect their designers.

jblsound
10-03-2015, 11:49 AM
Obviously Harman is no longer the company it was when Greg joined them in the '70s. I guess we should not be surprised by this deplorable termination of its most valuable employee.
I personally think Harman's demise as a respectable company started right after Sidney Harman died, even though Sidney may no longer had "hands on" day to day operations.

For those of us who have enjoyed cloning JBLs with new and improved tech, Greg has been the inspiration.
Greg's development of the Charged-Coupled Network™ was nothing short of brilliance. A tech I gladly copied for an L212 upgrade, along with other refinements.
To Greg, all the best in the years ahead.

Ed Zeppeli
10-03-2015, 05:41 PM
Greg, so sorry to hear of your abrupt departure from JBL. As others have mentioned, we have the utmost confidence you'll land squarely on your feet doing what you love.

Please keep us posted once you're situated so that we can continue to follow your brilliant contributions to music reproduction.


Best Regards,

Warren

Guido
10-04-2015, 08:11 AM
Dear Greg!

it reads like a joke. Normal people can't understand this decision. Maybe the modern and mostly completely dumb managers fresh out of their elite university's can. Sure they can. Their dirty game is already in full spate.



This is a generation doomed to detroy itself and all the beauty around it .

They try to but I hope the will not succeed in the end. But stop politics...

THANK you Greg for the fun your systems brought and still bring to me. Thanks for my beloved DIY Everest. Nobody told me but I know it was you in the end that made it possible for me to get the unobtainium components. At least you had some "influence". THANKS again!


Right Richard..



Take heart in the pleasure you have brought to us all and the hours of fun you've inspired in worshops , basements and attics around the world .

And WHAT fun we had :D


I'm positive your talents will not sit on the shelf for long ..... Perhaps

I hope so Greg. It might turn into better for us JBL addicted.

sheltiedave
10-04-2015, 09:55 AM
Greg, I would like to thank you for a lifetime of dedicated and exemplary work at your craft. It has been richly rewarding to me, and countless thousands, who have thoroughly enjoyed the speakers you have created. Your work over the years has allowed JBL to release some of the finest products in the industry.

i can not think of a finer way to spend a fall afternoon than to invite some friends over to spend a few hours listening to good music, with a pair of your speakers proudly representing. I have been blessed to own a number of your creations, and I wish to humbly thank you for all you have done.

dave

gasfan
10-04-2015, 10:20 AM
The inevitable. It is after all, inevitable. An obvious turning point for Harman in the fiscal scheme of things. It'll be interesting to see the direction they take.
Mr. Timbers, a good run indeed. Looking forward to your presence here. It's gonna be fuuuun!:)

focalguy
10-04-2015, 05:38 PM
Greg, very sorry how JBL has treated you but we all look forward to having you post here on the forum. You are our leader. I have fallen in love with the blue baffle in 2011 and it has changed me.. I now reproduce your speakers and enjoy them immensely. Hope you have time to enjoy what this life offers as it does end at some point. You should be proud of all that you have accomplished and the great joy you have brought us all. Spend time with loved ones and savour the precious years to come.
Best,
John Kang, Vancouver BC Canada.

bubbleboy76
10-05-2015, 12:31 AM
Mr. Timbers started at JBL before many of us was born. That gives it some perspective.

Hoerninger
10-05-2015, 02:22 AM
The inevitable. It is after all, inevitable.
Inevitable is only the leave - but it should be treated respectfully.
(Or should human relationships be dictated by bean counters?)
___________
Peter

FE3T
10-05-2015, 11:19 AM
This is indeed sad news.
I want to thank you for creating the XPL series which I have fallen in love with.

I started out with a pair of 140`s and was impressed enough to start searching for a pair of 200`s

My system consists now of a pair of XPL 200 up front.
A XPL 140 as center
and a pair of XPL 140 as rear speakers.

Stereo for music and 5 channel for movies

I have also a pair of 2245`s I plan to build a kind of B460.

more10
10-05-2015, 12:42 PM
Mr Timers you have my sympathy.

Business is heartless.

Mårten

Jbl ti 250
10-07-2015, 05:28 PM
This make me so sad to read, somehow i have seen you both as the past and the future of Jbl.
Just imagine the countless ours of pleasure we all have had from your creations......you have made the world a better place.

I started with a pair of your speakers some30 years ago, and that got me in to the world of music.


A creative mind can never change, only change direction.

Good luck.
René Esenmyr

brutal
10-09-2015, 09:05 AM
Abrupt departures driven by management are often the result of push from the legal team, but also often shows a lack of respect for the departed's moral fortitude.

ddf1969
10-09-2015, 04:20 PM
Definitely a mistake that they will later regret.


All the best for the future GT

Dave_72
10-11-2015, 01:31 AM
My sympathies, Greg. That kind of callous treatment is unacceptable.

I hope you move on to bigger and better things.

It's really their loss for all intense purposes.

Best wishes for the future, a bright one.

-D

audiomagnate
10-11-2015, 01:38 AM
Definitely a mistake that they will later regret...

I sincerely doubt it. Harman is a billion dollar corporation ($4.3 billion in sales in 2013) with over 12,000 employees. The product line that Greg Timbers was developing at the time of his departure represents a minute and possibly shrinking fraction of those overall sales. It was a business decision, plain and simple. Let's face it guys, high end audio sales are a fly speck on the overall consumer electronics picture, and this division of JBL has been receiving almost no support for many years. The Everest and Array line marketing is close to non-existent. I have first hand experience with Harman's marketing folks, having displayed my 24 bit Kromecaster streamer along side a pair of Everests in one of the Harman rooms at last year's RMAF. The disrespect the line was getting at that time was clearly evident. In my opinion, Harman is ready to dump the whole division. How many people on this board have actually purchased a pair of Mr. Timber's speakers at retail? I would guess a handful if that.

Having said that, I am slightly shocked at how his departure was handled. I was sacked by Mitsubishi (and later Nakamichi) after only four years in an almost identical fashion (make sure you don't take the stapler!), but I was (and remain) a relative nobody in the CE world. Greg has rightfully attained legendary status in that world. It could and should have been handled much, much better. I believe, as I'm sure most of the posters on this this board do, that Greg Timbers is the greatest living (and active!) high end speaker designer on the planet, and I sincerely hope I have the pleasure of meeting him one day. There is an absolute ton of money being spent on luxury goods right now, and I'm sure Greg's talents will not not be idled for long. I see him as Chief Creative Officer of a much smaller but well funded new organization who's goal is to create our holy grail, the perfect speaker for the home environment. Sounds like a fun job to me. If I had the money or power I'd offer him a job Monday morning. My brother's a stupid-rich VC out in California, maybe I'll let him know what has happened.

I'm not going to jump on the boat and wish Greg good luck here. He doesn't need luck, he's got massive amounts of talent and creativity, and I can't wait to see, and hear, and maybe even own his next design.

Rock on Mr. Timbers, you da man!

4313B
10-11-2015, 06:22 AM
Definitely a mistake that they will later regret.

I sincerely doubt it. Harman is a billion dollar corporation ($4.3 billion in sales in 2013) with over 12,000 employees.I hear you but whatevski... ;) I'm not sure that I could be more thoroughly unimpressed with Harman at this point. Here is me hoping that Harman does indeed later regret it...


Electronics giant opens research and development lab in Valencia

http://www.wifihifi.ca/LatestNewsHeadlines/INSIDETHENEWSAMSUNGAUDIOLAB.html

Some may recognize Greg's friend Allan who left Harman in September of 2013. I know nothing beyond them being friends. I think the M2 was the last thing Allan worked on (he was the systems engineer).

audiomagnate
10-11-2015, 07:51 AM
I hear you but whatevski... ;) I'm not sure that I could be more thoroughly unimpressed with Harman at this point. Here is me hoping that Harman does indeed later regret it...


Electronics giant opens research and development lab in Valencia

http://www.wifihifi.ca/LatestNewsHeadlines/INSIDETHENEWSAMSUNGAUDIOLAB.html

Some may recognize Greg's friend Allan who left Harman in September of 2013. I know nothing beyond them being friends. I think the M2 was the last thing Allan worked on (he was the systems engineer).

From the M2 to this...thing? No comment.

4313B
10-11-2015, 07:59 AM
From the M2 to this...thing? No comment.The last sentence in the article sums it up.

Mostlydiy
10-11-2015, 09:03 AM
Thank you Mr Timbers for the contrubution of the many many wonderful audio products you contributed to produce. Its really a shame you couldnt end your splendid career in the company you worked for for so many years if that was your wish.

Regards
Marcus

BMWCCA
10-11-2015, 09:18 AM
Crutchfield already has the R7 "egg" listed at a $150 discount.

I think they need to worry about marketplace acceptance before market leadership!

Flaesh
10-11-2015, 04:57 PM
From the M2 to this...thing? No comment.
It seems offtopic here but.. 67594

Donald
10-11-2015, 06:33 PM
I have only seen one person escorted out after termination. He worked in the mainframe security group. :)

Sorry to hear this happened to Mr. Timbers. I am also sorry to say it is the way big corps work these days.

After seeing in this thread the L300 was his baby could someone tell me what else in my sig line might also be his?

Challenger604
10-11-2015, 07:38 PM
The positive side of this event is a wide open door to new opportunities!! Go for it and enjoy!!!
I'm convinced that will bring a great moment even after 43 years in the same house! Go for it!
Cheers to that!
C

SEAWOLF97
10-12-2015, 07:39 AM
I've been thinking about all this..a bit.

We have focused on Greg's treatment (and rightly so) , but ...I think there is another shoe going to drop,

You do not dump a keystone designer unless there is a bigger picture. That brings up scenarios.

Maybe HAR is taking JBL out of the larger speakers business, as they have others doing that under their umbrella ? Redundancy (they have Revel for that) ?
Maybe they think they have a well trained replacement for Greg (at less pay) lurking somewhere ? Maybe the large speaker market is dead/saturated ? Maybe they think that skating along on Greg's designs for a while is possible ?

Maybe they just don't care and the bottom line is more important ?

Maybe it's all of the above ?? ..... There's an East Wind coming ....

(and another shoe going to drop ...IMHG) :( :(

Don C
10-12-2015, 10:09 AM
They purchased part of Bang & Olufsen recently, maybe they have a plan to buy the rest now.

DavidF
10-12-2015, 10:10 AM
I've been thinking about all this..a bit.

We have focused on Greg's treatment (and rightly so) , but ...I think there is another shoe going to drop,

You do not dump a keystone designer unless there is a bigger picture. That brings up scenarios.

Maybe HAR is taking JBL out of the larger speakers business, as they have others doing that under their umbrella ? Redundancy (they have Revel for that) ?
Maybe they think they have a well trained replacement for Greg (at less pay) lurking somewhere ? Maybe the large speaker market is dead/saturated ? Maybe they think that skating along on Greg's designs for a while is possible ?

Maybe they just don't care and the bottom line is more important ?

Maybe it's all of the above ?? ..... There's an East Wind coming ....

(and another shoe going to drop ...IMHG) :( :(

It's truly hard to say and likely Greg may not know the full story.

Greg was a connection to the "old" company that may not fit in with the direction HAR is pushing JBL along.

For the same reason I likely won't follow JBL in that direction. Times change, not always for the better.

4313B
10-12-2015, 10:55 AM
They purchased part of Bang & Olufsen recently, maybe they have a plan to buy the rest now.Oh bloody hell!!! :banghead:

LowPhreak
10-12-2015, 11:27 AM
I've been thinking about all this..a bit.

We have focused on Greg's treatment (and rightly so) , but ...I think there is another shoe going to drop,

You do not dump a keystone designer unless there is a bigger picture. That brings up scenarios.

Maybe HAR is taking JBL out of the larger speakers business, as they have others doing that under their umbrella ? Redundancy (they have Revel for that) ?
Maybe they think they have a well trained replacement for Greg (at less pay) lurking somewhere ? Maybe the large speaker market is dead/saturated ? Maybe they think that skating along on Greg's designs for a while is possible ?

Maybe they just don't care and the bottom line is more important ?

Maybe it's all of the above ?? ..... There's an East Wind coming ....

(and another shoe going to drop ...IMHG) :( :(


I think those all play a part, but in the end it's the bottom line for Harman; customers, employees, and environment take the hindmost more than ever. Each quarter has to show an improvement over the last, and if sales aren't doing it then more "creative" ways for increasing profit margin are used. Absolutely nothing else matters but increased profits, and Harman is not unique in this.

Also the 'elephant-in-the-room' income disparity now, and changed perceptions of what's desirable. Most people or families can't afford a $12-20k 4365 or K2, or $8k 1400 Array. Even if they could, I think almost everyone I know with traditionally middle-class jobs would think you're completely nuts if you said you wanted to spend that much on a stereo/music system. Even a $1000.-2000. pair of speakers seems ridiculous when they'd rather put it into a car, house, TV, or latest Apple gadget.

Where's that "middle-class expendable income" that used to keep companies like JBL going? We all know that's been shrinking for years and it's hitting some kind of critical mass lately. What does $1.97/gal. gas and a stock market almost completely disconnected from the real economy tell us? It tells me that demand has shrunk.

Henry Ford knew in 1914 that he had to pay his workers a better wage or eventually he wouldn't sell many Model T's. Waitressing or selling headphones at Best Buy isn't going to get you a pair of Array's, while Harman is making speakers in Mexico or China and the UAW is trying to cut U.S. autoworkers' wages by a third or half.

So, a lot of the factors you mentioned along with "it's the economy, stupid".

sonofagun
10-14-2015, 07:09 AM
I suggest we start a crowdfunding campaign to finance a new company with the suggested name GT Loudspeakers or 'GTL'. The purpose of this company would be to design build and market top-of-the line drivers / loudspeakers, while employing Greg Timbers and the other former designers from JBL. Capturing a significant fraction of JBL's market share, the proposed company would teach JBL to respect their designers.

Well, I would hope it would get better results than my campaign did:

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/funding-foam-speaker-grilles-worldsbestworkbench/x/9333970#/

I'd be glad to welcome Mr. Timbers on board my company which has plans in the work to expand.

So Harman still has operations here in the USA (CA)? I sorta got the impression from their contact with me a while back they had moved to China. :blink:

rdgrimes
10-14-2015, 08:07 AM
This crap makes you wonder:

http://www.jblsynthesis.com/

The domain is now being re-directed to the main JBL site.

4313B
10-14-2015, 08:19 AM
The JBL Synthesis website is currently undergoing site maintenance. We apologize for the inconvenience. Please visit http://www.jbl.com in the interim.

It is merely under maintenance... All the screws came loose so they are trying to find new screws and a screwdriver to screw them back in.

hjames
10-14-2015, 08:28 AM
The new Harmin' JBL site hasn't been for us for quite a while now -

Its just fricken sad ...
Time to move on, spend money elsewhere ...



This crap makes you wonder:

http://www.jblsynthesis.com/

The domain is now being re-directed to the main JBL site.

BMWCCA
10-14-2015, 05:18 PM
The new Harmin' JBL site hasn't been for us for quite a while now -

Its just fricken sad ...
Time to move on, spend money elsewhere ...

Is it time to archive all the tech sheets linked to in the Technical Reference forum here before they disappear?

RedCoat23
10-14-2015, 06:31 PM
Probably a good idea.

Who knows how they may restructure web pages and we'll end up with broken links. This site has a degree of insight into the workings of a commercial company I've rarely seen elsewhere. It would be a shame if that hard-won knowledge was lost with the passing of the old guard...

rdgrimes
10-14-2015, 07:37 PM
Is it time to archive all the tech sheets linked to in the Technical Reference forum here before they disappear?

They may be gone already, at least for Synthesis gear. I noticed that today on some Google searches, the images are only available in cache, links are broken.

Ian Mackenzie
10-15-2015, 12:28 AM
JBL's approach to Greg's departure could have been done differently.

Looking at the Harman Board none of them have grown up in the industry or the business. Given the scale of JBL Auto segment the business is now about scale and numbers. A far cry ftom the cherished Legacy business we love to read about in the Library.

I doubt this action will win the respect of the industry and could make doing business challeging in the immeduate future.

Its fair to say Greg will be remembered as one of the most well liked members of the JBL Engineering Team.

I recall sending a request to the JBL Service Department enquries portal way back 2003 for tuning and network schematics of the JBL 4345. At the time l was keen to build a diy clone like the 4345 and figured getting a reply back from JBL was a long shot.

But a couple of days later l received a personal email from Greg on how to tune the 4345 and complete engineering technical data sheets of the system. Greg was very enthusiastic about getting the project going and encouraged me to bi amp the system. Apparently a nephew of one of of the team picked up the enquiry and it soon found its way to Greg's office as he was one of the few people then who was still around from when the 4345 went into production cc1983.

The 4345 remains my favourite and most enjoyable diy loudspeaker.

Ducatista47
10-16-2015, 09:56 PM
I just ordered a JBL Studio 2 subwoofer and turned up this video in the official site. It is a little unsettling to see it at this point in time.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=se52ZNuavG0

JBLGUY
10-16-2015, 11:43 PM
Anytime an area ends it is sad. What will folks in the future know of the great music to come from classic JBL speakers....so sad really

tomt
10-17-2015, 01:57 AM
What does $1.97/gal. gas and a ....




wondering about that myself.

last week -

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQnamXfU8AAoqYR.jpg


I just ordered a JBL Studio 2 subwoofer and turned up this video in the official site. It is a little unsettling to see it at this point in time.


the comments from that video -

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CRgb7l7VEAAHgue.png




Replies: 117 (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/misc.php?do=whoposted&t=37395)
Views: 9,881

SEAWOLF97
10-17-2015, 07:26 AM
Also the 'elephant-in-the-room' income disparity now, and changed perceptions of what's desirable. Most people or families can't afford a $12-20k 4365 or K2, or $8k 1400 Array. Even if they could, I think almost everyone I know with traditionally middle-class jobs would think you're completely nuts if you said you wanted to spend that much on a stereo/music system. Even a $1000.-2000. pair of speakers seems ridiculous when they'd rather put it into a car, house, TV, or latest Apple gadget.

When I rejoined "THE World" in 1972 . my big stereo souvenirs were Pioneer CS-77a's. They were fine, until I stopped in to a local stereo shop and auditioned JBL L-100's. Wow , I was smitten. :)

BUT, they were sold at what was called "fair trade" price. ie: NO discount, full bore MSRP of $273 each.

Relating back to LP's quote above .... they were just plain "out of reach" . Going to school on GI Bill payments of $289/mo. It just wasn't going to happen.

Fortunately for most of us, those speakers aged/depreciated as we grew older and more able to purchase them. Now almost all of us can buy classic (non new) JBL's on a whim. Fortunately also, many are either still in good shape or can be rehabbed into the condition that we desire.

All this makes me wonder whether we are helping to decrease demand for new product and therefore impact Greg's value to the new Harming Corp ?

LowPhreak
10-17-2015, 11:44 AM
When I rejoined "THE World" in 1972 . my big stereo souvenirs were Pioneer CS-77a's. They were fine, until I stopped in to a local stereo shop and auditioned JBL L-100's. Wow , I was smitten. :) BUT, they were sold at what was called "fair trade" price. ie: NO discount, full bore MSRP of $273 each. Relating back to LP's quote above .... they were just plain "out of reach" . Going to school on GI Bill payments of $289/mo. It just wasn't going to happen. Fortunately for most of us, those speakers aged/depreciated as we grew older and more able to purchase them. Now almost all of us can buy classic (non new) JBL's on a whim. Fortunately also, many are either still in good shape or can be rehabbed into the condition that we desire. All this makes me wonder whether we are helping to decrease demand for new product and therefore impact Greg's value to the new Harming Corp ?

As audiomagnate asked earlier: "How many people on this board have actually purchased a pair of Mr. Timber's speakers at retail? I would guess a handful if that."

I suppose the Studio 580/590's I've bought direct from JBL count as that, but for the street price of two 1400's one could get eight (!) 590's. I'll bet anyone here that I could make a truckload of those sound better in many ways than a measly pair of Arrays, or a truckload of Arrays sound better than a pair of Everests. :blink:...or...well, you get the point.

We didn't have the internet in the '70s-'80s that makes it so easy to sell or find used gear like today. I think that accounts for a lot of it. But also income vs. the retail prices, most of which in the "high-end" for years have been completely into unreality as many of us here know. Roger Skoff has written an article on Part-Time Audiophile about some of this silly pricing.

JBLGUY
10-17-2015, 02:07 PM
First off I'm very sorry My Timber's at the rude and ungrateful treatment you received at the hands of idiots. It's unbelievable that JBL would be so stupid.
WOW did they miss the boat. You don't dismiss an Icon of the industry like you Sir at the drop of a hat. They could have turned Mr Timber's into a piece of nostalgia gold. In this age folks want the past to still be alive. Many companies tout there oldest achievements to promote the future. Having a living breathing person from their past would have suited them well if they were smarter.
I would have included you as the wise old bird among the new brite talent. That wins wins wins for them. Somebody down there needs a few lessons in marketing imo.
Sure high end is not profitable, but that's not all they are into.
Look at KFC right now. Bringing back the Colonel in a big way. You don't toss out you history, you use it to show your accomplishments and endeavors.
With the rich history of fabulous designs and ground breaking sound. JBL/Harmon should be showing that off. Not dragging it out the back door to the dump. Why throw away what has been so hard earned.
DUH JBL ! DUH

Ian Mackenzie
10-18-2015, 01:31 PM
Well JBL Japan has story booked the JBL story and Greg is profiled in that.

The Synthesis site is being updated so it will be interesting to see it when it's up again.

It would not surprise me if Greg consults back to JBL as a client much like Ashcroft industrial design. This would allow Northridge as an engineering office to go offshore for consumer audio.

sonofagun
10-19-2015, 07:30 AM
Hmmm, lots of "I'm so sorrys" and "what a shames" here but seems only one person offered Greg any help.

4313B
10-19-2015, 07:54 AM
Hmmm, lots of "I'm so sorrys" and "what a shames" here but seems only one person offered Greg any help.:blink:


The timing came as a surprise and as such, I haven't thought about my future plans. While I don't need to work financially, I need to be active and challenged so I must figure out what makes sense for me going forward.I personally have no doubt that he is figuring it out.

I thought it was very nice that people posted their best wishes and showed their support.

1audiohack
10-19-2015, 07:59 AM
That's exactly the message I got. He may not have left on his terms but it's all about what he wants to do now.

He didn't ask for help, financially or otherwise.

I just hope we don't loose track of him!

Barry.

dr_gallup
10-19-2015, 02:04 PM
I just ordered a JBL Studio 2 subwoofer and turned up this video in the official site. It is a little unsettling to see it at this point in time.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=se52ZNuavG0

That's a little jolting to say the least.

tomt
10-20-2015, 12:25 AM
Hmmm,
lots of "I'm so sorrys" and "what a shames" here but seems only one person offered Greg any help.


well ...




Current opportunities available:

Technical Adviser

Department: Call Center
Hours: Fulltime. Candidate can expect to work 9-6 Monday – Friday and in Saturday rotation with weekday off.
Scope: Assist customers via email and phone in selecting products for projects, troubleshoot product performance problems, and explain product specs and applications
Skills/Knowledge Required:



Working knowledge of electronics related to home, pro, or car audio design, installation, or repair.



Communication – Ability to clearly, tactfully, and confidently communicate information and ideas, verbal and written, using correct grammar, punctuation, tone, and appearance.



Operations - Carry out Company practices and procedures paying close attention to detail, accuracy, speed, organization, prioritization, confidentiality, safety, and housekeeping. Highly skilled at multi-tasking.



Business maturity - Knowledgeable of office protocols / behaviour / courtesies.



Team approach - Pride, involvement, & ownership of performance.



Systems: Keyboard speed and accuracy. Working experience in Windows environment. Ability to navigate multiple programs, menus, screens.



Personal qualities - Pleasant and cheerful disposition, possesses a high regard for integrity, punctual/reliable attendance, maintains a sense of humor, displays a patient and calm temperament, and projects a positive image. Display professionalism and eagerness to serve the customer. Recognizes the value of extraordinary customer service.






http://www.parts-express.com/jobopportunities

audiomagnate
10-20-2015, 02:20 AM
Above post reported as insulting,rude and disrespectful.

cgregory4
10-20-2015, 04:29 AM
Greg,

I can relate to your situation. However, I chose to quit in a new corporate culture, rather than endure ..... like you. To each his own .... as they say.

One thing can be said for change -- whether voluntary, or otherwise: It brings fresh life and energy. And blessings.

My choice resulted in some hard times, that I consider great lessons in life.

Then followed prostate cancer, Lewy body dementia, and, currently, bladder cancer. All challenges (and blessings disguised), but I continue to pursue my chosen avocation at 68, and shall continue to do so to my last breath.

Perhaps the best is ahead, my good man.

All the best, sir,

Greg

hsosdrum
10-20-2015, 03:18 PM
Above post reported as insulting,rude and disrespectful.

+1

tomt, if your post was meant somehow to be ironic or to draw a contrast between Greg's vast level of experience and the types of positions that are currently available, you failed miserably.

Raffe
10-20-2015, 06:00 PM
Wery wery sad reading Mr Timbers

I talked about you last week with a friend who are buying new speakers and I told him that JBL was the right stuff, it´s sad to realize that Harman´s leaders arent..

Personally i discovered JBL because I found that my personal taste of speakers are the same as Mr G.T, since then I baught all G.T designed speakers that I where able to buy, 240, 250, XPL200 etc. I also has as so many more with me been in contact with the in my point of view star like famous G.T who carried the brand JBL so high that its incredible how my feelings against JBL and Harman now suddenly went down to below zero :mad:. I have never been interested in cheap consumer stuff and my goal are always to get the best JBL G.T designed speakers. DD67000 is still only a dream but I guess that this also will be the end of my buissiness with JBL, from now there is only used speakers and those Harman guys can keep their stuff.

I will never forgot when G.T actually used his precious time to write to me about my L240Ti and the "new" L250Ti Lim ed, I think that wery wery few people got that heart for their company and their products. We all been watching Harman going down the cheap consumer mainstream but the JBL brand has remained a top brand only because of their Pro and statement speakers, without them JBL evaporates to nothing in my wiew.

In my point of wiew Mr Timbers are JBL, I only know one guy by name at JBL except for J.B.L and thats G.T. As I see it wery few brands has a employee who carry the "magic" as G.T did and still do. I really try to understand what Harman where thinking when they decided that leting G.T go was a good idea but I cant understand it, they must be a bunch of jackasses.

ARIKIP
10-20-2015, 09:23 PM
I am an avid lurker on these forums and an avid JBL fan since listening to a pair of 4412s in 1990..to currently owning 2 pairs of 250Ti's and Multiple 80/90s L series/Ti series speakers. I saw Gregs post and thought...is this for real??? I have never met you as i live on the other side of the planet but your name has come up in many discussions i have had with my other JBL friend/owners. Always in praise of what you have done for us as music fans in your products over the years. This has enabled us to enjoy the emotion in music as we have never enjoyed it before. I was always in awe of watching someone do what they love as a full time job...i can imagine the countless hrs you have put in over the years designing,building,listening. I cant understand why Harman did what they did but im sure you will go on to better things. They will end up kicking themselves for letting a person with your vast knowledge go....you wait. Any way...take care Greg,best of luck and like the others have said...i hope to hear from you more on this forum and thanks for doing what you do.

Ariki a JBL Fan from New Zealand

Audiobeer
10-21-2015, 10:13 AM
There's no excuse for what went down. . At least Beatrice Foods didn't treat everybody like JBL Does now when they took it down. If you screw with your best people and out source based on cost you become as Dell has. Global Whores with poor customer satisfaction.

Mr. Widget
10-21-2015, 01:10 PM
There's no excuse for what went down. . At least Beatrice Foods didn't treat everybody like JBL Does now when they took it down. If you screw with your best people and out source based on cost you become as Dell has. Global Whores with poor customer satisfaction.I think you may be insulting Global Whores in the comparison.


Widget

brutal
10-21-2015, 09:51 PM
There's no excuse for what went down. . At least Beatrice Foods didn't treat everybody like JBL Does now when they took it down. If you screw with your best people and out source based on cost you become as Dell has. Global Whores with poor customer satisfaction.

Not defending them, but Dell just bought/merged EMC for $67B and that's really going to shake up the enterprise markets.

tomt
10-21-2015, 10:15 PM
Above post reported as insulting,rude and disrespectful.




+1

tomt, if your post was meant somehow to be ironic or to draw a contrast between Greg's vast level of experience and the types of positions that are currently available, you failed miserably.



one of the greatest failures of humanity, (at this point of time),

is the inability of those that are, 'all too human', to see things as they really are.

instead, an opinion, of a reflection, of themselves, is presented as 'fact' ...

`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ````````````````````````


i have no doubt, that parts express, would be thrilled to have such a prestigious person,

handling some of their tech line calls.

sales might increase as well.

LowPhreak
10-22-2015, 09:35 AM
Right tomt, I'm sure PE's sales would increase. :rolleyes:

Do you seriously not realize how stupid and insulting your comments are, or are you just looking for attention?

Ian Mackenzie
10-23-2015, 12:35 PM
I think it would be insightful to understand the impact of Greg's departure on the JBL brand in Japan.

The E2 was launched in Japan and at some point the ripple like a stone dropping in a pond will hit the Japanese market where they are traditionally very loyal followers of JBL.

With shift to more segmented lifestyle businesses it will be interesting to see what becomes of the future audiophile market for JBL.

What will become of the statement systems?

Will future JBL systems live up to the legacy system Greg was involved with?

Will domestic incarnations of the M2 replace the current Synthesis / Blue baffle ranges?

Will the E2 continue?

If JBL are as dumb there with brand management then insult could turn into a lack of trust and impact on brand loyalty.

The Japanese take the audiophile business very seriously so it will be interesting to see how this evolves.

While the CEO looks for more ways to write tomorrow's pay check and satisfy share holders it is interesting that he has essentally removed the corner stone of the Brand (43 years) and is attempting to drive into markets like lifestyle-headphones where Harman has been ineffective relative to others industry players.

That's a bold and risky move.

The feedback from some mass market distributors is that Harman are really difficult to do business with and in that sense if you don't have distribution channels you don't have a business.

It's like there is a new guy that has come along arrogantly waving the brand flag around but does not know how to talk to the buyers and they drop the business after a short period.

Meanwhile the previously loyal customer feels sold out with the demise odd spare parts and upgrades.

It's makes you wonder if JBL would be better positioned as smaller elite industry brand specialising in technologies and manufacturing as opposed to attempting to be a mass maket player.

The Harman of today may need to look more at the 'how and why' Harman got into business so they can understand who they should be.

cooky1257
10-23-2015, 02:10 PM
Treat your products well and enjoy them while you can.Best Regards,Greg Timbers

Anyone else notice the implications of this part?

gasfan
10-24-2015, 12:54 PM
Anyone else notice the implications of this part?

Yikes.




The End

mech986
10-25-2015, 05:31 AM
I am sad and dismayed at what has happened to you Greg, but this has been part of the way corporate US culture has been for some time. I hope you were able to clear out your office for at least your personal items and materials. I hope this month and the next few months will provide clarity on where your next steps and direction will lead you.

The new venture with Allan at Samsung looks very promising and with it still in LA could be up your alley. Still, I'm not a huge fan of Samsung so would suggest you might consider approaching Apple with your considerable resume. Considering they have branched into so many areas concerning audio (cars, source devices), it would seem to me they could consider substantial sound systems as well. Maybe they could appreciate talent, success, and above all, meticulous engineering along with aesthetic taste in audio design, be it with small, medium, or large systems, especially with the potential to bring about a reboot in mid to large scale audio loudspeaker systems integrated into an Apple ecosystem. However, aside from the S106 or Aquarius IV, I don't recall you working with any speakers in white (excluding the JBL Creature).

Whatever you do, use your "benefits" (COBRA, health insurance, whatever vacation compensation) wisely, and moving your company retirement directly rolled over to your own managed and controlled IRA/Roth. If you have any company stock options, may as well translate them into other things (stocks of other companies) if you so choose.

Here's to your next endeavors, and may they be as blessed, successful and filled with integrity, passion, and soul as you have always been. It was a pleasure to meet and speak with you at the past 3 Lansing Heritage awards gatherings, and I hope there will be future chances to see you again. Best wishes.

Regards,

Bartley Yee

4313B
10-25-2015, 08:40 AM
Anyone else notice the implications of this part?He has been warning us for years to get what we needed because it wasn't going to be available forever. Nothing new there. We've all witnessed the steady decline in parts availability.


I think it would be insightful to understand the impact of Greg's departure on the JBL brand in Japan.I think Harman Japan is dead. I think the 70th anniversary system was cancelled. Apparently the remaining large systems that are out there are all that is left. I suppose I could be wrong but that's the impression I got.


I will not comment further on details until a much later date. My decision, not theirs.

gasfan
10-25-2015, 03:28 PM
I don't think Mr. Timbers needs to be taken by the hand. Though It would be neat to see something show up on Kickstarter or the like;)

I'm in.

Ian Mackenzie
10-26-2015, 12:17 AM
Those Harman Japan brochures might endup being collectors items.

Maybe we should be archiving a bunch of drivers for the kids so when the whole mess comes around full circle again they will have the real McCoy and the engineers then will have something to base future drivers on in case everything ends up as l as landfill!

mech986
10-26-2015, 01:51 PM
You could bet money on much of the engineering and product documentation and literature ending up in big dumpsters as they close the Northridge facility entirely and sell it off to a developer once it is environmentally cleared.

Same thing happened decades ago to HH Scott materials once Emerson took it over, they moved 3 semi's full of materials and basically chucked it all when it was determined that there was no market for Scott products, and product support was going to be a drain on resources for very little return.

As good as JBL has been, IMO, their only future support will largely be for select professional speakers and systems because, well, that's where the money will be. Everything else will be "evaluated and analyzed" on a cost ROI basis by a dispassionate accountant with no product knowledge whatsoever and decisions made like that. Just like you would do with a jeans line, groceries at the local big box store, or people in the design and manufacturing divisions when the contract suddenly doesn't come through. IMO, to the suits, there is literally no difference between inventory, intellectual or institutional memory, and labor.

Unless you find companies who have a much farther reaching vision and happen to have a strong enough business and financial resources to carry talented people like GT for research, development, and ultimately products of the future. And of course, create and have markets which can afford those products.

JBL, IMO, is heading towards the Android/Samsung model, chasing a larger pie of less (or relatively less) expensive products in a ever more crowded competitive consumer space - and prices and commodities will ever slowly spiral down. The Samsung Audio projects show some guts to do great R&D and come up with evolutionary and revolutionary stuff, but there will likely be constraints on how much stuff can cost and be competitive.

Apple may offer much more in terms of far reaching long term ideas of home entertainment integration and how speaker systems will factor into that, but it is not clear if they would go for larger systems given the consumer penchant for invisible.

Ian Mackenzie
10-26-2015, 02:16 PM
They will still require an engineering team for product development and my guess is it will be global offices like Mexico, Europe or hire a team of external employees to remove HR overheads. I think that is more likely and will be project based.

Same with Harman Japan.

gasfan
10-26-2015, 02:20 PM
You could bet money on much of the engineering and product documentation and literature ending up in big dumpsters as they close the Northridge facility entirely and sell it off to a developer once it is environmentally cleared.

Same thing happened decades ago to HH Scott materials once Emerson took it over, they moved 3 semi's full of materials and basically chucked it all when it was determined that there was no market for Scott products, and product support was going to be a drain on resources for very little return.

As good as JBL has been, IMO, their only future support will largely be for select professional speakers and systems because, well, that's where the money will be. Everything else will be "evaluated and analyzed" on a cost ROI basis by a dispassionate accountant with no product knowledge whatsoever and decisions made like that. Just like you would do with a jeans line, groceries at the local big box store, or people in the design and manufacturing divisions when the contract suddenly doesn't come through. IMO, to the suits, there is literally no difference between inventory, intellectual or institutional memory, and labor.

Unless you find companies who have a much farther reaching vision and happen to have a strong enough business and financial resources to carry talented people like GT for research, development, and ultimately products of the future. And of course, create and have markets which can afford those products.

JBL, IMO, is heading towards the Android/Samsung model, chasing a larger pie of less (or relatively less) expensive products in a ever more crowded competitive consumer space - and prices and commodities will ever slowly spiral down. The Samsung Audio projects show some guts to do great R&D and come up with evolutionary and revolutionary stuff, but there will likely be constraints on how much stuff can cost and be competitive.

Apple may offer much more in terms of far reaching long term ideas of home entertainment integration and how speaker systems will factor into that, but it is not clear if they would go for larger systems given the consumer penchant for invisible.

I think you're spot on and I would hope Mr. Timbers is well prepared having made sure what finds it's way into the dumpsters ends up being redundant.

DavidF
10-26-2015, 05:08 PM
"...
Unless you find companies who have a much farther reaching vision and happen to have a strong enough business and financial resources to carry talented people like GT for research, development, and ultimately products of the future. And of course, create and have markets which can afford those products...
.

This is the inevitable "rub" in the matter, is it not? Businesses need to grow to remain viable and with growth come changes. Greg was with JBL long enough to see many changes. Pretty sure his impersonal, thankless, exit was the most shocking, not so much the direction that JBL (as part of Harman) seems to be headed of late.

Anyone note that Ferrari was spun off into a public company by FIAT? Imagine working for Enzo in the day and living and breathing the symbol of the prancing horse. Then one day you awake and realize you now work for FIAT? Then later to know that FIAT dosen't want to support your brand anymore and puts you out to public shareholders!!

hjames
10-26-2015, 06:32 PM
This is the inevitable "rub" in the matter, is it not? Businesses need to grow to remain viable and with growth come changes. Greg was with JBL long enough to see many changes. Pretty sure his impersonal, thankless, exit was the most shocking, not so much the direction that JBL (as part of Harman) seems to be headed of late.

Anyone note that Ferrari was spun off into a public company by FIAT? Imagine working for Enzo in the day and living and breathing the symbol of the prancing horse. Then one day you awake and realize you now work for FIAT? Then later to know that FIAT doesn't want to support your brand anymore and puts you out to public shareholders!!

Perhaps its better that Ferrari not be partnered with Chrysler via FIAT any longer ... :banana:

Ian Mackenzie
10-27-2015, 10:51 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WXiwxir9xRk

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qJTi74WsjI4

A timely reminder of JBL's legacy at Northridge CA.

4313B
10-28-2015, 08:24 AM
A timely reminder of JBL's legacy at Northridge CA.:rotfl: I spent alot of time in that listening room with my albums.

BTW - Don posted that JBL First With the Pros video on YouTube.

bubbleboy76
10-28-2015, 09:50 AM
4313b, are you a former JBL employee?

4313B
10-28-2015, 10:09 AM
4313b, are you a former JBL employee?At the time of that video I was just a kid who would show up on Fridays with an album or two and I would be let into the listening room if it was free to use.

SEAWOLF97
10-28-2015, 11:00 AM
At the time of that video I was just a kid who would show up on Fridays with an album or two and I would be let into the listening room if it was free to use.

you would prob need a security pat down and background check to even attempt that today :(



Don't stand in the doorway
Don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There's a battle outside
And it is ragin'
It'll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'.

The line it is drawn
The curse it is cast
The slow one now
Will later be fast
As the present now
Will later be past
The order is
Rapidly fadin'
And the first one now
Will later be last
For the times they are a-changin'.

Ian Mackenzie
10-28-2015, 11:51 AM
A few familiar faces in the video some of which went out in their own but still associated with JBL as consultants.

4313B
10-28-2015, 12:33 PM
you would prob need a security pat down and background check to even attempt that today :(Yeah, those days are definitely over!

JeffW
10-28-2015, 12:35 PM
I wish I could put names to some of the faces. I recognized Drew Daniels from his pic in the Drew's Clues piece.

http://www.audioheritage.org/html/perspectives/drews-clues/drews-clues.htm

4313B
10-28-2015, 12:42 PM
Yeah, Mark Gander and Don Keele were in there too around the same 7 minute mark.
Drew zapping the neighborhood with test tones, lol.

Ian Mackenzie
10-28-2015, 01:31 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zrpUDuUtxPM

Here is a presentation by Floyd Toole.

What is interesting is he talks about his research at Harman a lot and presents some interesting facts about the industry and how consumers spent time listening to music which might hint at the future direction of Harman.

I am wondering if Harman thinks the grey haired silver fox who spends +24000 on a pair of loudspeakers will soon to be a thing of the past while demand for car audio and ear buds is on the rise.

Toole suggests the price point of loudspeakers that subjectively measure well is coming down.

Elsewhere at the 2015 RMAF Andrew Jones of Tad gives a back story on his design of a highly successful Pioneer loudspeaker that has one world wide acclaim for about $100.00 on Amazon.

Perhaps large outfits like Harman now know enough to be about model a product and its market acceptance without the need for all the prior research and associated costs to continue.

I like the reference to the M2 at the end.

The wave guide seems to be a key design feature of what is considered a consumer loudspeaker that subjectively measures well

4313B
10-28-2015, 02:10 PM
I like the reference to the M2 at the end.Yep.

And Alan took that knowledge to Samsung.

And Samsung gave him a blank check book to make things happen there.

JeffW
10-28-2015, 02:15 PM
Elsewhere at the 2015 RMAF Andrew Jones of Tad

I believe it's "previously of TAD" now, isn't it? I read he went to Elac.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPX4s--IuxE

Ian Mackenzie
10-28-2015, 02:33 PM
Hi Jeff,

Yes l think you are correct.

Ian Mackenzie
10-28-2015, 02:47 PM
Since we are talking about what goes on behinds l have copied below from the Library part of the page on Greg.

It is not hard to see why Greg is so highly regarded.


"Greg has an interesting philosophy to loudspeaker design. While he enjoys, and is rightly proud, of the no-holds-barred statement speakers, these are not necessarily his favorites. What motivates Greg is to achieve elegance in design and innovation that results in performance that exceeds original expectations. As an example, Greg was responsible for JBL's current core product lines - the Northridge and Studio series. These are mass market products, but Greg tackled their design from the perspective of achieving new levels of performance at their price points.


Studio Series S412 of 1998
© Harman International

Greg works best in a focused team environment. He is proud of his role in establishing a team approach to system design at JBL that he has employed for over two decades. Nonetheless, he recognizes, that within the team, there has to be a clear mission. "It doesn't have to be my vision, but there has to be someone's vision". He realizes that audio is becoming just one aspect of a larger multimedia experience. The challenge will be to provide more and smaller loudspeakers that integrate into a home environment, while providing the highest levels of performance. Nonetheless, when the opportunity arises to develop a speaker that represents the current state-of-the art, Greg will always jump at the chance."

© 2001 Don McRitchie

P.S. When asked how long he had to work at JBL before he could forego the suit and tie, Greg answered August 1, 1972 - the day after he started. Greg prides himself in maintaining an average of three "Tie Days" a year, although his average is slipping. Last year resulted in seven "Tie Days".

Ian Mackenzie
10-28-2015, 03:00 PM
Perhaps at some stage Don will have an opportunity to prepare a piece on Greg bridging the existing excellent writings to current day.

Aquaplas
10-28-2015, 08:18 PM
Is nothing sacred?

Greg, We are here for you brother!!!

deeply, deeply saddened...

mech986
10-28-2015, 08:48 PM
One wonders what would have happened to John Eargle if he had lived long enough to have had his job "eliminated".

bubbleboy76
10-30-2015, 04:41 AM
At the time of that video I was just a kid who would show up on Fridays with an album or two and I would be let into the listening room if it was free to use.

From a HIFI perspective, considering that I am a former JBL fan-boy myself, this is the coolest story I have ever heard!

4345
10-30-2015, 09:06 AM
Sadly, we are in a new world of international business. I think our tax and regulatory policies are what dictate this. We now have corporate values instead of family values.

See Salary, Bonus, and Pay details for Jobs at HAR (http://www.glassdoor.com/api/api.htm?version=1&action=employer-salaries&t.s=w-l&t.a=c&t.p=8&ticker=HAR;c:USA)
Key Executive Compensation HAR



Name/Title

2011

2012
2013
2014
2015

























Key Executive Compensation

23,092,507

22,681,970
13,551,293
20,025,279
25,842,406















Dinesh C. Paliwal/Chairman of the Board, President and Chief Executive Officer

16,017,237
16,072,492
8,763,411
11,965,521
13,967,163















Sandra E. Rowland/Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer

-
-
-
-
2,323,240















Herbert Parker/Executive Vice President, Operational Excellence

2,393,271
2,346,999
1,707,710
2,828,533
2,586,369















Blake W. Augsburger/Executive Vice President and President, Professional Solutions Division

2,237,428
1,959,851
1,447,232
2,541,533
2,486,613















Michael Mauser/Executive Vice President and President, Lifestyle Audio Division

2,444,571

2,302,628
1,632,940
2,689,692
2,468,020















Todd A. Suko/Executive Vice President and General Counsel

-
-
-
-
2,011,00

sweet212
10-31-2015, 10:43 AM
Sorry to hear about inexcusable treatment.
IMHO you produced mellower less raucous speakers that were still dynamic .
Best regards for the future.

Ian Mackenzie
10-31-2015, 11:29 AM
From the Library

"Greg Timbers has had responsibility for more significant loudspeaker designs at JBL than anyone else since starting with the firm in 1972. He carries on the tradition of JBL from the days of William Thomas, Bart Locanthi and Ed May in the current environment of the hugely successful corporation that is Harman International."

Ian Mackenzie
10-31-2015, 01:16 PM
In light of recent events and the change in the Harman culture in over the past few years it is interesting to recount historically how changes in leadership were handled.

Taken From the Library below, Don skilfully articulates how Sidney Harman exercised judgement on the future leadership of JBL.

"Harman it would seem valued a person who understood the highly subjective elements underlying JBL's reputation and powerful image over appointing a business person which in this context probably would result in a loss of some of the non-objective and hard-to-quantify values that were so central to JBL's success."

What is interesting is that Wolf like others in the history of the firm held a long standing association with JBL and effectively grew into their roles.

Without question Harman was very astute and made the right call in swaying Wolf to work full time for JBL.

Harman and Wolf's close collaboration energised the success of JBL over the next decade.


Background information on Arnold Wolf can be found here.

http://www.audioheritage.org/html/people/wolf/wolf.htm

"At length, over a business dinner, Berlin asked Wolf whether he would consider joining the company as its new president.

In recalling this extraordinary suggestion, Wolf has said that he doesn't really know why he was asked, but speculates that "the Harman [Jervis] management could easily have found a qualified MBA who would virtually guarantee an orderly, well-supervised manufacturing and marketing operation. However, it is doubtful that such a person would have the training or ability to understand the highly subjective elements underlying JBL's reputation and powerful image – something that had been carefully built by Bill Thomas over the years and an effort in which I had become a central contributor. Erosion of this vital, hard-won position in the marketplace could very well have proved catastrophic It may have seemed the better bet to engage one of the architects of the public image and hope that he could learn enough about business methods and administration to be fully effective than to follow conventional wisdom. Appointing a business person in this context probably would result in a loss of some of the non-objective and hard-to-quantify values that were so central to JBL's success. In addition, by that time I had learned a considerable amount about the company's manufacturing processes, marketing approach, and distribution."

JBLGUY
11-01-2015, 10:47 AM
Well I'm not so sure High end listening is dead. IMO lately I've been seeing more young people show an interest in listening to music in a two channel setup. I think it's dawning on people that they are missing something in the experience of listening to music today.
Remember everything old is new again.
Records are selling again and seem to be picking up speed.
I read a lot of smart people who say brilliant things in ways I never could. But I also see a lot of brilliant people who have zero touch with what regular folks want. They can say things in ways that sound great and educated, but in reality have no idea how to excite folks.
Anyway if I were King at Harmon, I'd maintain a legacy/heritage program. To be the company responsible for some of the greatest speaker/inventions ever made and then hide it....OMG

Funny thing is they use the JBL letters and symbol all over there little blue tooth stuff. I'm assuming to show the mighty JBL symbol as " you are getting the best here ". so they already know it's clout.

Do you guys on here realize how many people have never heard what we all hear everyday ???? There are so many people that if allowed to hear what you and I own would be floored.
They would think it's all just been reinvented today and a miracle no less as well. Many folks have never heard systems of music at our level of quality.
There is going to come a time when people get sick or at least used to high-tech and crave some real again. Don't miss that boat JBL. Being THE legacy is never bad.

We will be a world where people will want the best of the old and new....I see this already in many areas. VINTAGE is COOL again.

SEAWOLF97
11-01-2015, 10:59 AM
Do you guys on here realize how many people have never heard what we all hear everyday ???? There are so many people that if allowed to hear what you and I own would be floored.
They would think it's all just been reinvented today and a miracle no less as well. Many folks have never heard systems of music at our level of quality.
There is going to come a time when people get sick or at least used to high-tech and crave some real again. Don't miss that boat JBL. Being THE legacy is never bad.

We will be a world where people will want the best of the old and new....I see this already in many areas. VINTAGE is COOL again.

No arguments here . Around my town there is huge competition for LP's & turntables. when I go to record shows, there seem to be 2 distinct groups of buyers ..... the "over 60" crowd that grew up with the medium and the "under 35" hipsters group that think it's really cool ... the latter doesn't seem concerned about media quality , they just want to be participating in the retro activity. ??

I gave my L-100's to my 34 y.o. son when I acquired better. His friends love to come over and listen to them . They act as if they've never heard full frequency music before or felt bass. He's a semi renaissance guy. He's serious about vinyl and 2 channel. Turntable is the only source attached to his system.

gasfan
11-01-2015, 11:25 AM
This is how it'll be...my grandchildren will rediscover actual music and everything attached to it. The times they are a changin' back, or..whatever.;)

JBLGUY
11-02-2015, 02:46 PM
I asked a young person I know who buys 3 records a week what he likes about it so much. He said " well you actually get to sit down and listen to a whole side "

pauly
11-04-2015, 05:11 PM
Greg,

My father (recently passed) and I are both musicians in sunny Australia. We have always appreciated, and often enjoyed the reality of a sizable pair of JBLS. Now I understand that there's a team involved, I also understand that the standards and tastes of a single individual can usually be attributable to certain products. I think I have found that individual - You.

This short sighted 'Greed for the shareholders' also encompasses most Australian businesses now, and even though the outcome is obvious following this creed (Complete domination by the Chinese who make and own everything) - it continues. Bloody sad.

From the bottom of my heart, I want to thank you for the enjoyment I would feel, & see in my fathers eyes when we would listen to his music through the big JBLs.

Please keep us posted with your future plans as I would like to follow any projects you get involved in.

Thanks again Greg.



I was unceremoniously separated from employment by Harman following a 90 second explanation. My position was eliminated! Following an explanation of benefits, I was escorted out. The timing came as a surprise and as such, I haven't thought about my future plans. While I don't need to work financially, I need to be active and challenged so I must figure out what makes sense for me going forward. To be clear, this is not what I wanted or deserved, but I will not comment further on details until a much later date. My decision, not theirs.It was a good run and I am very pleased that I have brought so many people enjoyment with the products I have developed over the last 4 decades. Once things settle down, I hope to be more available on the forum, but I need some time to adjust.My best wishes to all you JBL fans. Treat your products well and enjoy them while you can.Best Regards,Greg Timbers

martin_wu99
11-06-2015, 09:25 AM
I was unceremoniously separated from employment by Harman following a 90 second explanation. My position was eliminated! Following an explanation of benefits, I was escorted out. The timing came as a surprise and as such, I haven't thought about my future plans. While I don't need to work financially, I need to be active and challenged so I must figure out what makes sense for me going forward. To be clear, this is not what I wanted or deserved, but I will not comment further on details until a much later date. My decision, not theirs.It was a good run and I am very pleased that I have brought so many people enjoyment with the products I have developed over the last 4 decades. Once things settle down, I hope to be more available on the forum, but I need some time to adjust.My best wishes to all you JBL fans. Treat your products well and enjoy them while you can.Best Regards,Greg Timbers

Dear Mr.Timbers

It's my great honor to meet you on this forum,i have been known you from books/magnizes/web for many years,you designed JBL products brings me so many happiness and joy,i really appreciate your outstanding work and contribution in JBL CO.i wish you more happy than during Harman.
By the way,do you consider to found a new speaker brand by yourself? because you have so many fans all over the world

Best regard

Martin

4313B
11-06-2015, 04:22 PM
I was watching some Crown videos on YouTube and thought I'd go check out the JBL and JBL Professional channels.
One can definitely see where JBL has been headed.
There was a video published 4 months ago on the JBL Pro Channel with G.T. in it.

Alobar
11-09-2015, 11:36 AM
Such sad news.. I have owned and loved JBL for 40 years and now I feel left with nothing but the past. What is it about corporate America that they just don't get it anymore? It is the people who created the products which generated the brand loyalty and reputation they ride on the back of today, and it would seem (and used to be the case) that it would be of the utmost importance to preserve and add to this reputation. But ignorant (or just plain selfish) corporate leadership is just hell bent to cash in on the hard work of previous generations with only their huge pay packages seemingly their sole consideration. It is getting to the point where there is going to be no brand loyalty left as every company with a quality reputation races to the bottom of the barrel.

LowPhreak
11-10-2015, 09:42 AM
That is exactly the case, Alobar. It's self-centered profit taking pushed to every extreme that can be found. That's basically what's taught in business schools now, not also corporate responsibility to its employees, customers, and environment in which it operates.

The over-weening douchebags named above (a few of which have worked for nefarious outfits such as Rand Corp.) and others like them at Harman would have unceremoniously canned an Einstein or Steve Jobs or Edison like they did Greg T. if it served their greedy interests in the slightest.

There is no brand loyalty or respect for what came before, or even national loyalty (keep the brand in the U.S. made by Americans), thanks to globalization. If an extra nickel in profit can be squeezed out by using a cheaper fastener or grade of paint or process, or lower-paid workers, etc., that's what they'll do...AND while attempting to ask the same or higher price for the same model but lower quality product.

badman
11-10-2015, 11:44 AM
There's a documentary on Enron called "The smartest guys in the room". Basically, the essence of modern corporatism is that the ones making the millions got there by racing to the bottom. By being willing to behave poorly from a humanitarian perspective, they've taken advantages unavailable to better people, and been more successful- they think they're clever because the better people didn't see those "opportunities", they're narcissistic to go along with their sociopathy.

Eventually, people will get fed up with the long-term destruction this brings, but until then we're borked.

bubbleboy76
11-10-2015, 02:18 PM
It´s called capitalism, isn't it?
Maybe you should vote for Bernie Sanders next time!

BMWCCA
11-10-2015, 03:13 PM
It´s called capitalism, isn't it?

Not really. More like manipulation under the protection of laws made to advantage those with money at the expense of those without the same means.

But that would be political talk and we don't do that here! ;)

:lurk:

gasfan
11-11-2015, 06:01 PM
There's a documentary on Enron called "The smartest guys in the room". Basically, the essence of modern corporatism is that the ones making the millions got there by racing to the bottom. By being willing to behave poorly from a humanitarian perspective, they've taken advantages unavailable to better people, and been more successful- they think they're clever because the better people didn't see those "opportunities", they're narcissistic to go along with their sociopathy.

Eventually, people will get fed up with the long-term destruction this brings, but until then we're borked.

No they won't. Getting fed up suggests recourse. Modern corporatism is functionally no different from historical corporatism. The issue is to what level it's held in check by social mores. It hovers typically as close to the bottom as the human condition allows it to. It's actually a good mirror to the moral decay of society in general. It's always taken as far as possible. So it's always tolerated.

Mr. Widget
11-11-2015, 06:52 PM
It's actually a good mirror to the moral decay of society in general. It's always taken as far as possible.That's a depressing thought.


Widget

gasfan
11-11-2015, 08:02 PM
That's a depressing thought.


Widget

Not if you define it as progress instead of moral decay which is how it's reconciled. Enter the brave new world of political correctness..hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil.

Oops, that's one word too many.

Hoerninger
11-11-2015, 11:36 PM
... brave new world of political correctness..hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil.

Oops, that's one word too many.
Not too many - I've always loved to learn a new phrase in my second language. ;)
___________
Peter

Ian Mackenzie
11-12-2015, 12:02 AM
I am not sure if anyone has looked but the podcasts by the CEO spell out the whole future. Basically the CEO is a native of India and he sees the future of contemporary corporate growth in setting up factories in developing countries like India.

With income in the billions Harmans CEO is measuring innovation in patents for his key growth segment the Auto industry. Harman is customizing its system for tiered ranges across key Brands.

The business is focussing on market growth in developing markets

LowPhreak
11-12-2015, 09:35 AM
It´s called capitalism, isn't it?
Maybe you should vote for Bernie Sanders next time!

Is that what you call this in Sweden, as if it's a good thing? Well it is convenient for the few that it benefits.

To answer your question - Bernie? He's too far up the Pentagon/MIC's backside for my liking, and I'm a vet. The last candidate I voted for was Ralph Nader.

bubbleboy76
11-12-2015, 11:11 AM
Is that what you call this in Sweden, as if it's a good thing? Well it is convenient for the few that it benefits.

To answer your question - Bernie? He's too far up the Pentagon/MIC's backside for my liking, and I'm a vet. The last candidate I voted for was Ralph Nader.

Capitalism is not a good thing! Even Bill Gates has realised that recently.

Unfortunately, no ism is good! It all ends up in egoism anyway.

Sorry for the political OT. Can be removed by admin if not suitable here.

Alobar
11-12-2015, 01:15 PM
Capitalism is not a good thing! Even Bill Gates has realised that recently.

Unfortunately, no ism is good! It all ends up in egoism anyway.

Sorry for the political OT. Can be removed by admin if not suitable here.

I think you're ok..

As for capitalism, it is a powerful economic engine, and like any engine without a throttle or governor it will simply blow itself to bits! :eek:

JeffW
11-12-2015, 02:36 PM
Yeah, not many of the posts here are anything but conjecture or have much of anything to do with the termination of Mr. Timbers. He hasn't given the explanation for his termination.

Steve Schell
11-12-2015, 07:31 PM
OMG Greg, as a co-founder of this site who sat in for several of your interviews... I am SO SORRY to hear of this heinous termination of your stellar career at JBL! You have always been on the short list of my very favorite people there, along with Mark Gander and the late, fantastic John Eargle. Please know that your countless contributions to the art are inscribed in stone forever, and that your reputation among knowledgeable audiophiles worldwide will endure. You were always an admirable interview subject, who relayed the truth always without fear or favor. Folks, the mold was broken after Greg Timbers was shipped!

Steve Schell
11-12-2015, 07:49 PM
A few impassioned further thoughts... Greg would show us everything he was working on, even if we weren't free to share it with the world at the time. We saw and heard prototypes of the DD-66000 at least a year before they were introduced. He showed us practically his entire development process on the computer in his office. Such a man must be secure in his abilities and his role in the scheme of things, and Greg was always a ROCK in this regard. His world was one of a development lab with deep parts inventory and three anechoic chambers at his disposal within a few feet. Woe betide whoever decided to end this hyper-focused creative convergence!

1audiohack
11-12-2015, 08:27 PM
Capitalism is not a good thing! Even Bill Gates has realised that recently...

? IF,, he really said that, he'd better absolve himself and give it ALL to the precious poor.

Barry.

bubbleboy76
11-13-2015, 01:01 AM
? IF,, he really said that, he'd better absolve himself and give it ALL to the precious poor.

Barry.

It was not about the poor, it was about the larger picture. If we want humanity to have a world to live in, in the future. Capitalism does not take us there, unfortunately.

With a binary mindset, where everything can be divided into good and evil (cowboys/indians, christians/terrorists, capitalist/communist, Microsoft/Apple, superman/lex luthor), then yes, Capitalism is the good guy!

Binary speaking, it is painful when the good guy goes bad (JBL), isn't it!? Let's see if Boose goes good now instead. Always fun with the Hollywood kind of "shocking twist" in the end ;)

4313B
11-13-2015, 03:52 AM
Woe betide whoever decided to end this hyper-focused creative convergence!My perception of the situation is that the guy who did it had no clue what he was actually doing - I look at his picture and nearly retch.

I do know that the news of G.T.'s firing reached the very top folks at Harman and I also know that there will be a luncheon in Greg's honor, nearly seven weeks after the fact. I have absolutely no idea if these two facts are actually related though.

You know, this is one of those things that people like us will never forget... at some point we will stop thinking about it on a daily basis but we will never forget how this went down. I'm still oscillating between disbelief and anger.

gasfan
11-13-2015, 05:22 AM
So some nobody exec. fired him? I find that hard to believe, also that those with that kind of authority didn't know who Mr. Timbers is. If that were the case, apologies and reinstatement would be in order, no?

4313B
11-13-2015, 05:46 AM
So some nobody exec. fired him? I find that hard to believe, also that those with that kind of authority didn't know who Mr. Timbers is. If that were the case, apologies and reinstatement would be in order, no?I find it hard to believe that some ******* called Greg into his office, gave him a ninety second explanation of why he was being terminated and then had him walked out of the building. And yet, here we are...

And yeah, he is a nobody... nobody else is going to give a flying **** when he gets fired or otherwise leaves JBL. Quite frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if that was part of the issue, he is a nobody, he will very probably always be a nobody and he might possibly be aware of that.

Sorry, this whole thing just infuriates me all over again every time I come to this thread.

SMT
11-13-2015, 07:40 AM
As a new comer to this site(though I have lurked for several years), I was not aware of Mr. Timbers. Due to this thread I have familiarized myself with Mr. Timbers and his immense contributions to Harman and the JBL brand.

With what little knowledge I have on these matters I do imagine that Mr. Timbers unceremonious release would have created a very contentious relationship and inserted a large wedge between upper management and Mr. Timbers colleagues. I speculate that Mr. Timbers reach through the Harman/JBL staff was wide and deep.

In short, his dismissal and the manner in which it was handled could have severely deleterious consequences within Harman/JBL moral.

Harman management f***** up.

They could and should have made his retirement a celebration of commitment and contribution.

What a bunch of incompetent douche bags.

*as this is my 5th post on this site, if the content or statements are in violation of site policy or spirit I ask the moderators to feel free to edit or delete this post.

4313B
11-13-2015, 07:57 AM
They could and should have made his "retirement" a celebration of commitment and contribution.Exactly! :yes: As others have also posted, and as I think all of us feel!

Ian Mackenzie
11-13-2015, 09:37 AM
I wonder if a hundred forum members turning up at Northridge in their pickup trucks and tell the xxxxx what they thought of him then errect a big statue of GT in the foyer would equalize the situation?

Flaesh
11-13-2015, 10:54 AM
I wonder if a hundred forum members turning up at Northridge in their pickup trucks and tell the xxxxx what they thought of him then errect a big statue of GT in the foyer would equalize the situation?
Like this! :applaud::rockon2:

Ian Mackenzie
11-13-2015, 01:37 PM
The thing is if Greg was in the U.K he would have been made Sir Greg Timbers by the Queen and they would not dare fire him.

Ed Kreamer
11-13-2015, 03:19 PM
Colleagues,

It certainly appears, after reading several posts, that some lower echelon dimwit who apparently had enough power to do something really stupid did so. What was he the bosses' nephew? I wonder if someone above this chap could turn around and correct this situation, if that is what Mr. Timbers would want. It happened at a Seattle broadcasting company of all places. It makes me angry and dumbfounded at the same time. Too bad we can't outlaw stupidity.

JBLGUY
11-13-2015, 03:45 PM
Exactly! :yes: As others have also posted, and as I think all of us feel!

OH YES YES YES....never forget your past...especially the good parts.

JBLGUY
11-13-2015, 03:47 PM
I wonder if a hundred forum members turning up at Northridge in their pickup trucks and tell the xxxxx what they thought of him then errect a big statue of GT in the foyer would equalize the situation?

On my Way Ian....except I'm in Canada so it's gonna take me a bit. Now where's my keys....um

gasfan
11-13-2015, 04:14 PM
I find it hard to believe that some ******* called Greg into his office, gave him a ninety second explanation of why he was being terminated and then had him walked out of the building. And yet, here we are...

And yeah, he is a nobody... nobody else is going to give a flying **** when he gets fired or otherwise leaves JBL. Quite frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if that was part of the issue, he is a nobody, he will very probably always be a nobody and he might possibly be aware of that.

Sorry, this whole thing just infuriates me all over again every time I come to this thread.

Yes, nobodies disappear into the mist, after the fact. I think there's a cliche for them. How convenient. Some people don't like to do their own dirty work.

Just sayin.

Flaesh
11-14-2015, 09:46 AM
I'm in Canada.. Now where's my keys....um
My key is in right pocket and my U2 68205 (not pickup :o:) near the door but I'm behind the Urals..

mixsit
11-14-2015, 06:41 PM
Colleagues,

It certainly appears, after reading several posts, that some lower echelon dimwit who apparently had enough power to do something really stupid did so. What was he the bosses' nephew? I wonder if someone above this chap could turn around and correct this situation, if that is what Mr. Timbers would want. It happened at a Seattle broadcasting company of all places. It makes me angry and dumbfounded at the same time. Too bad we can't outlaw stupidity.
I, like many here, came up with a fondness of JBL, from using pieces in my music from the get go some 40 years ago. This thread's brought a certain tinge of sadness.
I've followed most of it but may have missed.. Was there something to suggest this someone was acting, how to put it.. Independent of management in some way?

JBLGUY
11-15-2015, 12:52 PM
Yup, pretty stupid to drag your Icon out to the curb on garbage day.
I was standing in a Staples the other day getting my dose of low fidelity. I was pushing the buttons on the Bluetooth speakers on display. Each one has it own built in program to demo the pop can speakers they are selling. The JBL display didn't even have the best sound. How sad is that ? They were touting the mighty Orange JBL logo and I could have cried.
To think my JBL system and cherished drivers share the same logo is almost unthinkable.

Someday all the kids are gonna think I'm a wizard with my real sound system.

Ian Mackenzie
11-15-2015, 11:21 PM
Have you seen the new Harman Luxury website?

Looking at The Truth pod casts one can only assume none of the patents and the walk down history corridor at Northridge apply to the mass consumer Buds and other lifestyle stuff.

Fitero
11-16-2015, 06:16 AM
So it raises the question; what were the last designs that Mr. Timbers was involved in designing?

I wonder if the new 4367 is a brain child of his. It would make it's purchase even more special to many I would think.



Oh, and usual disclaimer; long time lurker, first time poster. Greetings and gratitude expressed...

JeffW
11-16-2015, 06:18 AM
Form here


The 4367 was G.T.'s last system design for JBL and one of the delays in production was due to his sudden unexpected unwarranted departure.

Fitero
11-16-2015, 09:04 AM
Thank you for the info. JeffW.

Elac310
11-16-2015, 10:23 AM
I was unceremoniously separated from employment by Harman following a 90 second explanation. My position was eliminated! Following an explanation of benefits, I was escorted out. The timing came as a surprise and as such, I haven't thought about my future plans. While I don't need to work financially, I need to be active and challenged so I must figure out what makes sense for me going forward. To be clear, this is not what I wanted or deserved, but I will not comment further on details until a much later date. My decision, not theirs.It was a good run and I am very pleased that I have brought so many people enjoyment with the products I have developed over the last 4 decades. Once things settle down, I hope to be more available on the forum, but I need some time to adjust.My best wishes to all you JBL fans. Treat your products well and enjoy them while you can.Best Regards,Greg Timbers

OK I come from a country with another social and labour culture (which is actually often laughed at). Even if one goes for total labour market flexibility, still people should not be treated like that. It's a question of respect for the human being, his/her experience and profession (top engineering), image, overall contribution etc. Especially where such people have contributed so much to the repute, image and success of a business to the extent that the name of the business or its top products were often associated to that of the engineer(s).

All my best wishes accompany you in your future endeavours. And a big thank you for having contributed so much and so brilliantly to the development of audio transducers and the science of sound reproduction. If this is what you desire, I hope you will be able to continue on that path through a consultancy bureau or otherwise.

rdgrimes
11-24-2015, 07:29 AM
FWIW, www.jblsynthesis.com/ is back online. But it doesn't actually list any products. :blink:

4313B
11-24-2015, 07:46 AM
FWIW, www.jblsynthesis.com/ is back online. But it doesn't actually list any products. :blink:Maybe they are synthesizing new products...

LowPhreak
11-25-2015, 08:13 AM
Maybe they are synthesizing new products...


Just what the world needs..."lifestyle" junk of Chinese plastic with the 'Synthesis' label on them...:banghead:

hjames
11-26-2015, 05:51 AM
Just what the world needs..."lifestyle" junk of Chinese plastic with the 'Synthesis' label on them...:banghead:

Yes, the new Synthesis line consists of iPhone boomboxes and wireless headphones/earbudz ...

NOTE: Dealers are NOT permitted to sell Harman Luxury Audio products online.

http://www.jblsynthesis.com/syn-purchase-policy.html

SEAWOLF97
11-28-2015, 06:12 PM
.
" Sitting in the cafeteria at Sennheiser's Wedemark headquarter's campus, Axel and a few other engineers in the headphone group began to chat about the original Orpheus and whether or not they could improve on it. Over the course of many lunchtime chats they came to the conclusion they could. They brought their conclusions to upper-management.

"So, we think we can build the world's best headphones, again. Do you think this is something we can/should do?"

Now, most publicly owned companies would throw out the idea as monetarily unprofitable. It would be tossed out the window with the engineers told to go make something the broad consuming public would desire. But not Sennheiser—a privately held company—they're passionate about making great products. Profit, for them, is surely found on the financial bottom line, but it's also found in the hearts and minds of others who share their passion for great audio reproduction. Brand equity, it's called. "

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/sennheiser-passion-and-orpheus-he1060hev1060

carolax
11-28-2015, 07:59 PM
After 40 years of owning and working with JBL Professional products, it's gut-wrenching to see what happens when a corporation can't see further than their next quarterly profit report. But life goes on. I just built a new home studio using ATC monitors, ATC being a small, privately-owned company who believe proper transducer design and careful manufacturing are what matters. I'm listening to their smallest studio monitors right now, which have 6" woofer with a 3" voice coil and a 20lb magnet assembly. They're not JBLs, of course--they sound neutral and require more power than Donald Trump's blow dryer--and the ATC logo may be the ugliest ever. But it's good to know there are products out there which reflect the values that once made JBL a special company.

BMWCCA
11-28-2015, 10:03 PM
I'm listening to their smallest studio monitors right now, which have 6" woofer with a 3" voice coil and a 20lb magnet assembly. They're not JBLs, of course--they sound neutral and require more power than Donald Trump's blow dryer--and the ATC logo may be the ugliest ever. But it's good to know there are products out there which reflect the values that once made JBL a special company.
I suppose a logical comparison of those values could be made in an A-B comparison of the ATC SCM20ASL to the JBL LSR305 or LSR308.

The smallest ATC at a street value of $5000 per pair versus the smallest of the Timbers JBL M2-legacy monitors currently offered at $200/pair, shipping included. Specs show the baby JBLs go deeper and my ears tell me they image as well as anything I've heard. The price point the JBLs hit might not have been possible if JBL's parent hadn't been looking for cheaper off-shore manufacturing, or leveraged the development of the M2 to create smaller versions with the same heart. They may not be hand-made in Britain, but the result is really the Timbers legacy as much or more than it is JBL's.

And I mention it in this thread only to help remember what Greg accomplished and how his legacy extends to such affordable examples of what we (once) loved about JBL.

frank23
11-30-2015, 11:58 AM
I only read this now, I'm sorry for Greg Timbers to be treated this way. It's incredible to see how American companies mistreat their employees, their biggest assets. I'm glad to be living in Europe.

Now what if Greg Timbers and Siegfried Linkwitz (http://www.linkwitzlab.com/15_years_of_LL.htm) would team up? I'm not sure they could get along, but it might as well produce a really nice system!

NickH
11-30-2015, 12:05 PM
Frank23 don't fool yourself, they do that in Europe too. I was previously employed by a European company and they do the exact same thing.


Nick

Ian Mackenzie
11-30-2015, 12:21 PM
Given the scale of the auto business my impression is that Harman will treat JBL consumer a Legacy Story and drop all but the Synthesis branded range of box loudspeakers.

The whole approach to JBL as a Consumer brand has been inverted and the transition has been coming for sometime.

They are playing on the Legacy story (who we are...or who we were) and Floyd's prior work at Northridge to market technical innovation across the ranges but they are not building loudspeakers there anymore. It's a museum.

It's like a bunch of Cowboys have come along and taken over the ranch that once produces thoroughbreds.

The work is now farmed out globally and bonuses are handed out for patents and cost efficiencies.

I think this is in part why Greg's role was eliminated...they just won't be doing that range in the future.

Steve Schell
11-30-2015, 04:32 PM
I have mellowed a bit at the outrage of GT's firing... or perhaps just placed it in context... considering that Lansing Sound Inc. was incorporated by Jim Lansing in October 1946, it was a pretty good run. Jim Lansing told Hal Cox in the late 1940s that he had brought good sound to the motion picture theatre, and that the goal for his new company was to bring good sound to people in the home. Of course at that time Jim could not have known that he would be dead by 1949, nor that a succession of talented engineers capped by Greg Timbers would forward Jim's goal with unimaginable success well into the 21st century. Not a bad result overall, despite the nimrod maneuvers of management!

Altec Best
12-13-2015, 12:23 PM
So Sorry To Hear The News Greg ! :spchless: It seems to be a symptom of the world we now live in.I don't know how we went from Kick-Ass loudspeakers to Ipods and earbuds...It seems to be what is happening to most loudspeaker companies these days from Altec to JBL now and a few others.. With everything being made in China these days manufacturing in the USA is dead or dieing IMHO ! What I would love to see Greg is you get together with a bunch of your friends (loudspeaker engineers) and start a new company owned by the engineers not unlike what Jim Lansing did in 1946.. Best Wishes and hope you have great success in all your future endeavors ! Hope you have a Happy Holidays ! :xmas:


All The Best ! AB

badman
12-14-2015, 09:31 AM
"The dawn of Bose created the "Man Cave" and reduced testoterone levels worldwide
by 18.5 per cent" Peteleoni on DIYaudio.

Darned right, and ipods and earbuds are part of this. Most men <30 in the USA can't change a tire. It's pathetic.

Greg's old-school and will be fine, hopefully he's in a good place mentally right now.

JuniorJBL
12-14-2015, 08:48 PM
I have mellowed a bit at the outrage of GT's firing... or perhaps just placed it in context... considering that Lansing Sound Inc. was incorporated by Jim Lansing in October 1946, it was a pretty good run. Jim Lansing told Hal Cox in the late 1940s that he had brought good sound to the motion picture theatre, and that the goal for his new company was to bring good sound to people in the home. Of course at that time Jim could not have known that he would be dead by 1949, nor that a succession of talented engineers capped by Greg Timbers would forward Jim's goal with unimaginable success well into the 21st century. Not a bad result overall, despite the nimrod maneuvers of management!

Excellent!!

I to would have to agree and credit Greg and the others for furthering Jim's vision 10 fold in quite an amazing fashion. A world wide trend to excellence for their designs has been realized!! :)

Thanks for that Steve!! ;)

jbljfan
12-15-2015, 11:36 AM
When this thread was first started I sent a link to my wife at work. Her response:

Wow. Turns out that JBL is a corporation too, which is a disappointment. What a rotten way to treat a gem. Feel free to invite him to visit, for him I'd clean up the guest room. Wow.

Personally I hope Greg is willing to share whatever he is currently tinkering with. And the offer stands. Greg, if you have any interest in exploring Woodinville Wine Country, we are eight miles north. We'll keep a light on.

Mike

bubbleboy76
12-16-2015, 05:34 AM
When this thread was first started I sent a link to my wife at work. Her response:

Wow. Turns out that JBL is a corporation too, which is a disappointment. What a rotten way to treat a gem. Feel free to invite him to visit, for him I'd clean up the guest room. Wow.

Personally I hope Greg is willing to share whatever he is currently tinkering with. And the offer stands. Greg, if you have any interest in exploring Woodinville Wine Country, we are eight miles north. We'll keep a light on.

Mike

There are many lights on around the world, I think :)
And the dinner is served!

rdgrimes
01-06-2016, 09:57 AM
FWIW, the Synthesis systems are back online at jblsynthesis.com/. Same information in a fresh wrapper.

4313B
01-06-2016, 12:21 PM
For many years, iconic JBL loudspeakers have perfected the definition of luxury audio. The 4367 is no exception. The high-performance loudspeaker was built upon the same professional-grade technology used in the acclaimed JBL Professional model M2 Master Reference Monitor, one of the most advanced and sophisticated loudspeakers in the world today. This 2-way loudspeaker offers a cast-frame 15-inch woofer (2216Nd-1) with a powerful, patented Differential Drive® dual 3-inch voice coil and neodymium motor structure for outstanding behavior in the low to mid frequency range. Upper-mid and high frequencies are reproduced by a patented D2430K 3-inch dual diaphragm, dual voice coil compression driver with dual neodymium motor structures and JBL's patented High-Definition Imaging (HDI™) waveguide horn. All of this was designed to offer a high performance audio experience.
:blah: :blah: :blah: :barf:

And then, because, in truth, we "managers" really don't know :wtf: we are doing, fired the Chief Engineer who designed it, as well as every other major iconic loudspeaker system "we" produced over the last 43 years. :blink:

Photo of "management team" :screwy: :frantic: courtesy of stunt doubles Jim Carrey and Jeff Daniels.

4345
01-28-2016, 12:57 PM
The stock price of HAR is down around 50% this year. Maybe Mr. Paliwal is the next person to be shown the door!

hjames
01-28-2016, 01:52 PM
The stock price of HAR is down around 50% this year. Maybe Mr. Paliwal is the next person to be shown the door!

Send PaliWali packing - NO! Say it isn't so!!

pur40422
01-30-2016, 06:28 AM
Dear Mr. G.T.,
I have been amassed while reading this post, and I believe that most of this Forum members would be sorry while reaching this information, that JBL legendary Mr.G.T. will not continue to improve JBL product in the unselfish way as He has done in last 43 years ( what a coincidence - number 43 - for the novice: do read more about 43xx studio monitors ), but his work would leave non hide-able groves in JBL engineering profile. To day we are aware of the statement that most of the engineering production company are "led" by the PEOPLE for home ONLY Stock-exchange index are the only reference without any future vision. We can remember the name "ALTEC (Lancing)" what is was, and what it is now, in the audio field.
Me, as a AH Forum member, would enjoy in the opportunity that respectable Mr.G.T., would spend some more time with us, giving to us a piece of his enormous knowledge and experience in the science of sound, and engineering trade-offs, that would effectively lead us to the more realistic reproduction of music, and voices.

Best Regards
Ivica


I am very sorry to hear this.
HK did a friend of mine that was a designer for Elan Home systems the same way.They did all the senior engineers that way from what I was told.
Sent in a hatchet man and same as you, 2 minute discussion and goodbye Mr. engineer.
All the best.

Ian Mackenzie
01-30-2016, 12:52 PM
They are hanging everything off the Everest as a name in the lifestyle markets and everything off the M2 as innovation in the consumer range. This simply means there is no requirement for individual thought and creativity.

The classical loudspeaker designer at JBL is dead and JBL is raising revenue off patents and branding alone.

That might work for white goods and lawn mowers but the savey home consumers are looking for a more personalised message and who is behind the brand in world of noise filled with brands and techology.

When The designer is linked to the brand this can mean as much if not more than the technology to the purchaser when evaluating a complex purchase decision.

Titanium Dome
01-30-2016, 03:26 PM
The classical loudspeaker designer at JBL is dead and JBL is raising revenue off patents and branding alone.

That might work for white goods and lawn mowers but the savey home consumers are looking for a more personalised message and who is behind the brand in world of noise filled with brands and techology.

When The designer is linked to the brand this can mean as much if not more than the technology to the purchaser when evaluating a complex purchase decision.

:thmbsup:

dino
02-12-2016, 05:07 AM
Boy am I late. thank you for all the outstanding speakers you design which bought joy to our ears. Greg you gave the name JBL strength respect in the audio world. I hope you do not stop here. I would love to see and hear your new line of audio speakers :applaud::applaud::applaud::applaud:

korgroenewoud
03-02-2016, 10:43 AM
I see the message of GT now.
I can not understand. The man who designed icons in the soundreproduction.
It seems to me that JBL now longer will operate on the hi-end market. They'd rather produce cheap mass for a new generation audio-listeners.

Shame on you Harman CEO (if you are responsible).

gibber
03-02-2016, 05:14 PM
I have mellowed a bit at the outrage of GT's firing... or perhaps just placed it in context... considering that Lansing Sound Inc. was incorporated by Jim Lansing in October 1946, it was a pretty good run. Jim Lansing told Hal Cox in the late 1940s that he had brought good sound to the motion picture theatre, and that the goal for his new company was to bring good sound to people in the home. Of course at that time Jim could not have known that he would be dead by 1949, nor that a succession of talented engineers capped by Greg Timbers would forward Jim's goal with unimaginable success well into the 21st century. Not a bad result overall, despite the nimrod maneuvers of management!

Wraps it up nicely, Steve
Interested to see GT's next step, label perhaps not JBL but who cares if it's good enough to cut the mustard ?

The story told in this thread points to Harman not being the most desirable employer, but not sure the situation of the section in question was good enough to favourably weigh brand awareness issues when issueing marching orders for GT (??)

Great speakers from him, no less
And sure looking forwad to GT's coming contributions !

Charah, Ralph

BestSound
05-03-2016, 02:09 PM
"My best wishes to all you JBL fans. Treat your products well and enjoy them while you can.Best Regards,Greg Timbers"This is one of the reasons why I have gravitated to the JBL Ti series, to repair them and make them operate and look like they just came out of the JBL "Final Inspection Department." I do not want any of the 4 models to go "extinct." Superb design, superb engineering, and superb sound! Once you're ready to get going again with another company, how lucky will that company be!! I hope the offers are many, and HUGE!!You may be gone from JBL, but you'll never be forgotten. Thanks for the memories and the quality, Greg. I appreciate it, and you.Bestsound

Malefoda
05-15-2016, 01:05 PM
I am late also. Anyway, the speakers you've done are great ones sir. I enjoy mine as great product even by today standards. Thanks and bravo!
A second message to these respectless "high in the sky" people: shame on you.

pasadena
05-21-2016, 12:33 AM
I haven't posted or been on here for a very long time but today I was shocked to read about your departure from JBL in such a manner Greg.

I would like to thank you for your presence and help here on the forum these past many, many years and I would especially to like to thank you so very much for our conversations and for your support with my XPL-200A speakers and DX-1 crossovers and I feel I have a part of your legacy sitting in my lounge forever every time I listen to them ;)

I wish you all the best in your future endeavors and your continued presence on the forum. Your knowledge and help is GOLDEN :)

Cheers
Pasadena

spirou38
05-24-2016, 10:18 AM
As an old fan an owner of JBL speakers, all I can say is "thanks for all Greg" and have a nice and quiet retirement and a good health.
Shame on JBL chairman ...

johnhere
05-27-2016, 11:14 AM
end of an era is the title of Mad Men's final season part 2.

jan_slagman
06-11-2016, 12:36 AM
But..................are they changing in the right way ? Well, i don't think so ! What kind of mentality or vision do you have when you treat one of your most loyal and skilled co-workers this way. Well, it is called modern management, but i think i in terms of companypolicy it brings us back in the days when workers hardly had any rights.
Mr.Timbers i wish you all the best and i hope you will enjoy your leisure. Thank you for the nice JBL speakers you created !

Kind regards,

Jan Slagman
Veenendaal
The Netherlands

merlin
09-13-2016, 11:22 AM
I'm remarkably late to this as I'm rarely around these days but if you still drop by Mr Timbers, I'd just like to thank you for bringing so much joy to myself and others, and for genuinely helping people to enjoy their time on this planet. My K2's have brought a smile to my face even on the darkest of days. I wish you the very best of luck and health in the future.