JBL L100 quadrex grills foam

[durendal]

Hello,
I am looking for information on the dimensions of the original foams for JBL L100. Does anyone can help me? I've originals grills but foams seem some replacement.




I have the opportunity to do it yourself.



67324

[Wagner]

The information is here, do a search, many many threads and posts on the subject
One member here is, or at one time, was also in the business of manufacturing exact replacements; he may still be
There is also a competing vendor on ebay who also offers what they claim to be exact replacements and as far as I know have never received any negative reviews
He (our fellow forum traveler) invested a great deal of sweat equity and money in creating them, maybe if you ask nicely he will be willing to short himself a sale and share with you his hard earned knowledge
Good luck

[durendal]

The information is here, do a search, many many threads and posts on the subject
I do search and I found many information but not with dimensions I need.



One member here is, or at one time, was also in the business of manufacturing exact replacements; he may still be
There is also a competing vendor on ebay who also offers what they claim to be exact replacements and as far as I know have never received any negative reviews
He (our fellow forum traveler) invested a great deal of sweat equity and money in creating them, maybe if you ask nicely he will be willing to short himself a sale and share with you his hard earned knowledge
Good luck
Yes, earlier it was on ebay, but now there is no auction with foam inserts :(

[audiomagnate]

I do search and I found many information but not with dimensions I need.


Yes, earlier it was on ebay, but now there is no auction with foam inserts :(

It sounds like you have the equipment and know-how to make them yourself and only need accurate dimensions. Is that correct? If so, I think that's great, as the ones on ebay come with frames and are very expensive. Maybe if a board member could help you out you could make up a few extra pairs and make them available here. Just a thought...

[BMWCCA]

I do search and I found many information but not with dimensions I need.


Yes, earlier it was on ebay, but now there is no auction with foam inserts :(

The seller still exists: http://www.ebayitem.com/281808100374

[audiomagnate]

The seller still exists: http://www.ebayitem.com/281808100374

The OP is not asking where he can buy the foams, he's asking for help in making his own.

[BMWCCA]

The OP is not asking where he can buy the foams, he's asking for help in making his own.
He said he couldn't find an auction for the them and I gave him a link to a completed auction from the seller. Seems like he's looking for photos and someone to talk to or give him information. I didn't misunderstand: Yes, earlier it was on ebay, but now there is no auction with foam inserts :(

We're all trying to help him find his answers. More power to him if he wants to make his own. Anyone with those fake-but-fun models around here have a ruler??

[durendal]

Well guys,

Thank you for participating in the discussion.
Do not argue in such a beautiful day :)

In accordance with the maxim "If you want something done right, do it yourself". I decide to take measure my self from own materials and informations.
I've everything on paper. Now I've to make 2d project and calculate all measure (later probably 3d model)
It looks promising.

Give few day (or more) ;) and I'll be back with model or even with first prototype.

Peter

[sonofagun]

Good luck with that - you'll need it. :crying:

[1audiohack]

Good luck with that - you'll need it. :crying:

Really? Everyone here knows you have the information this gentlman seeks and this is all you will offer?

You know, given the same task, some people will struggle, and others will accomplish with ease. He may need no luck at all, just some dimensions.

All the best durendal!

Barry.

[sonofagun]

Like I'm going to just give another possible competitor information it's taken me years and a lot of BST to obtain? :rolleyes:

There's a lot more to making reproductions of these than just having the dimensions!

[Lee in Montreal]

Hi Durendal

Are you making a set of grills for yourself in order to finalize a restoration, or are you producing them commercially with the intent of selling them?

In any case, your best bet is to try finding an original foam grill and take all the precise measurements on your own. As you mentionned, you are never better served than by yourself. ;-)

Lee

[durendal]

Hi guys,

My topic is becoming more popular :)

I'm only one of many fans of jbl spekers.

I had L19 - really nice, loved them ... totally restored by my self ...
I have L26 - great, inconspicuous ... almost finished
L100 - I always wanted to have them, the opportunity arose and I have them ... need some time to fully restore



Are you making a set of grills for yourself in order to finalize a restoration, or are you producing them commercially with the intent of selling them?

I could buy them o ebay, 150 usd maybe not so much, but with shipping cost to Europe, tax and vat it's about 300 usd. It's too much I think.
I want to make them for my self.

I did not realize that it is a secret knowledge :)
Well, I used my own brain and knowledge.
With a few photos, frame measure and jbl badge :) I calculated it in one evening :)
67638

67640

I'm not sure only about total height. Now I set it 30mm but it can be a little more. Hard to measure this using materials I got.
I think prototype will verify this.


Thanks guys for good words and sorry for my not to good english.

[Wagner]

He said he couldn't find an auction for the them and I gave him a link to a completed auction from the seller. Seems like he's looking for photos and someone to talk to or give him information. I didn't misunderstand: Yes, earlier it was on ebay, but now there is no auction with foam inserts :(

We're all trying to help him find his answers. More power to him if he wants to make his own. Anyone with those fake-but-fun models around here have a ruler??
I can't believe you just did that

[Wagner]

Hi guys,

My topic is becoming more popular :)

I'm only one of many fans of jbl spekers.

I had L19 - really nice, loved them ... totally restored by my self ...
I have L26 - great, inconspicuous ... almost finished
L100 - I always wanted to have them, the opportunity arose and I have them ... need some time to fully restore


I could buy them o ebay, 150 usd maybe not so much, but with shipping cost to Europe, tax and vat it's about 300 usd. It's too much I think.
I want to make them for my self.

I did not realize that it is a secret knowledge :)
Well, I used my own brain and knowledge.
With a few photos, frame measure and jbl badge :) I calculated it in one evening :)
67638

67640

I'm not sure only about total height. Now I set it 30mm but it can be a little more. Hard to measure this using materials I got.
I think prototype will verify this.


Thanks guys for good words and sorry for my not to good english.
Please do not apologize for your English, it is working perfectly well; 25% of the residents of "my" state cannot speak it at all, OR read or write in their own tongue.

I am attempting to say I appreciate your accomplishment and even more so when it is not a mandatory requisite (being multi-lingual) when others make no effort at all.

What is your trade or training if I may ask?

Nice work and beautiful speakers.

[Wagner]

For the internet vendors of the Quadrex repros, what's the deal/status with the design patent and others?

I'm sure there's several, JBL invested a lot of effort into the project.

There seems no issue with using the protected trade name of the inserts either, "Quadrex" for the purposes of marketing; the sculpted-foam folks use it in their headers:
NEW JBL L100 CENTURY QUADREX FOAM GRILLE INSERTS L-100

Too bad it's just us, desperate to find the missing parts; that header would be a winning law suit a couple times over (false advertising).

What's the deal today? Expired, they don't care (JBL/Harman), or do you have to get permission (sellers only).

[audiomagnate]

For the internet vendors of the Quadrex repros, what's the deal/status with the design patent and others?

I'm sure there's several, JBL invested a lot of effort into the project.

What's the deal today? Expired, they don't care, or do you have to get permission (sellers only).


I really doubt they give a rat's a** one way or the other on stuff like this.

[sonofagun]

I really doubt they give a rat's a** one way or the other on stuff like this.

Thats a rat's patootie!

BMWCCA: What do you mean by a "fake-but-fun model"?

[Wagner]

I really doubt they give a rat's a** one way or the other on stuff like this.
You may be correct, but I wouldn't be so sure.

[Wagner]

Thats a rat's patootie!

BWCCAA: What do you mean by a "fake-but-fun model"?
Condescending dig on the speaker; doesn't have the "in crowd" seal of approval.

Lot of guys give the L100s a sort of conditional love, even some who have never heard or owned them (NOT saying that's the case here).

Part of a herd mentality that has created an atmosphere in which many L100 owners will open a post or a dialog about their speakers with an apology for doing so (owning and liking/loving L100s).

Anyway, it's a thinly veiled dump on what some think is the "cloth seat" crowd.

[durendal]

Please do not apologize for your English, it is working perfectly well; 25% of the residents of "my" state cannot speak it at all, OR read or write in their own tongue.
I am attempting to say I appreciate your accomplishment and even more so when it is not a mandatory requisite (being multi-lingual) when others make no effort at all.

Thank you very much :)


What is your trade or training if I may ask?

Yes. IT specialist/programmer. So you know sometimes I like to make something more physical / touchable. Like to know and make many things. So I do :)

Backing to the topic and measures. Funny thing because I think designer of this spekers didn't thought about accurate dimensions when he was doing his job 45 (more less) years ago.
What is more funny. If he even thought about it. It was in inches :) not milimeters :)

After some more analyzes I think I have final dimensions.

67646

Funny thing about squares and margin. Orginally it's 12-14mm, but when you set margin to 14mm you don't have perfect square (rather rectangle)
When it's 12mm ( nearly half an inch :) ) it looks better. Almost perfect it's when you set it to 10mm. Square is square :)
Of course our eye rather can't see this difference. But it's curiosity.

67647





At the end. I'm surprised atmosphere around these foams and I think it's a little sad ...
Anyway I do my job :)

Greetings for everyone.

[sonofagun]

Condescending dig on the speaker; doesn't have the "in crowd" seal of approval.

Lot of guys give the L100s a sort of conditional love, even some who have never heard or owned them (NOT saying that's the case here).

Part of a herd mentality that has created an atmosphere in which many L100 owners will open a post or a dialog about their speakers with an apology for doing so (owning and liking/loving L100s).

Anyway, it's a thinly veiled dump on what some think is the "cloth seat" crowd.

Thanks but I was asking BMWCCA for clarification.

[Wagner]

Thanks but I was asking BMWCCA for clarification.
That's not his style.

How you making out with your back orders?

[sonofagun]

Uhh, sorry but what do you mean by the cryptic response (common on this forum it seems), "That's not his style". I just wanted to know what "fake-but-fun model" is (or means). Still do. "That's not his style" doesn't answer the question!

Back orders? Tough turning out product when NO ONE shows ANY interest in giving a company (who's product is in demand worldwide) ANY *(*&(*^$^ help whatsoever! Lots of talk (which is cheap) but no one recognizes an opportunity when it stares them right in the face. No wonder this country's economy is going into the toilet.

[Wagner]

Uhh, sorry but what do you mean by the cryptic response (common on this forum it seems), "That's not his style".

Back orders? Tough turning out product when NO ONE shows ANY interest in giving a company (who's product is in demand worldwide) ANY *(*&(*^$^ help whatsoever! Lots of talk (which is cheap) but no one recognizes an opportunity when it stares them right in the face. No wonder this country's economy is going into the toilet.
I meant EXACTLY what I said, that it is not his style.

Now THAT'S some cryptic shit in light of what you just said to me. What exactly is the issue? Time? Labor? No money for raw materials?..............what's the deal?

Did not intend to strike a raw nerve their fella. I KNOW you've been through some shit and I am sorry, and I mean that. But you ain't alone pal, so suck it up. You've been crying this same tired ass story since you were unable to sell your "business".

I have wanted to buy TWO sets in the past year but every time I go to your website there's a "we're back ordered message".
There is ALWAYS some problem.
I did want to go with you as you were the first to do these to my knowledge. I wanted to be loyal, I wanted to see your physical product (never have). But my customers also wanted their speakers back.

Not going to solve a business problem just ranting about how much America sucks. No bank's going to loan you money if you can't fill the orders you already have.

I sincerely appreciate what you did and the fact that YOU set a new bar. That was a very substantial accomplishment and I know it required a great deal of devotion on your part.

But taking an idea and turning it into a VIABLE BUSINESS, now that's another story altogether.
Sorry for your woes.

Why don't you do one of those "kick starter" type deals?

[Wagner]

Hey TW ....

You are obviously a smart guy and have lots of experience. I'd be happy to have a beer with you, but the angry , sometimes snarky comments really don't work well on this forum. I had one member (now gone) who worked at provoking me and I responded in kind. Now I look at those posts and wish they were delete-able.

Trust me, I understand. Most of my life I've been that way too. I can parade out my excuses, but nobody cares. Finally I went into PTSD counseling and have been mellowing out. (with rare exceptions)

Plse take this for what it is meant to be. NOT an attack.

TOM
Fair enough, I hear ya...........but do me a favor and read my responses(s) in the TOTAL context.
It's like the NFL, the last guy the ref sees catches the flag.

[sonofagun]

I edited post #24 to clarify my question.

My business was started with hope and on a shoestring (last of unemployment $$) and it has grown very slowly (and very painfully) over the last 40 some odd years - unfortunately it pretty much has always had to operate on a shoestring - so there's never been enough money to do things properly - proper facility, personnel, equipment sufficient to meet product demand, advertising and promotion. Rather a "cart before (or without) the horse" situation (or catch 22?). Have always had to find the cheapest way to do things. I tried a "kickstarter" deal with dismal results - maybe because I don't understand the process plus am extremely limited in my computer/on-line operations due to lack of knowledge or help in that area - constantly have computer problems!

One man (and old school at that) just cannot do it all!!!!!! I have to turn away people almost daily who want L100 grilles! Thousands of dollars to be made but no one wants to get in on the deal.

Am I making myself clear??? :blink:

It's a complex situation but I have concluded this: IF you have a viable product that the public does want, then the best way is to get a substantial business loan so you can start up and run the business properly. Trying to make it happen with little $$ just doesn't work too well no matter what else you bring to the table.

I've had more than a few potential investors interested but so far all seem to find one or another "excuse" for not getting involved.

Nothing happens (in business) unless you actually DO something! Talk gets you nowhere. I have made and sold thousands of grilles over the years with minimal advertising & promotion. Imagine what proper support would mean.

Recently have gone out on a limb and leased a larger building to use but it's a gamble.

[Wagner]

I edited post #24 to clarify my question.

My business was started with hope and on a shoestring (last of unemployment $$) and it has grown very slowly (and very painfully) over the last 40 some odd years - unfortunately it pretty much has always had to operate on a shoestring - so there's never been enough money to do things properly - proper facility, personnel, equipment sufficient to meet product demand, advertising and promotion. Rather a "cart before (or without) the horse" situation (or catch 22?). Have always had to find the cheapest way to do things. I tried a "kickstarter" deal with dismal results - maybe because I don't understand the process plus am extremely limited in my computer/on-line operations due to lack of knowledge or help in that area - constantly have computer problems!

One man (and old school at that) just cannot do it all!!!!!! I have to turn away people almost daily who want L100 grilles! Thousands of dollars to be made but no one wants to get in on the deal.

Am I making myself clear??? :blink:

It's a complex situation but I have concluded this: IF you have a viable product that the public does want, then the best way is to get a substantial business loan so you can start up and run the business properly. Trying to make it happen with little $$ just doesn't work too well no matter what else you bring to the table.

I've had more than a few potential investors interested but so far all seem to find one or another "excuse" for not getting involved.

Nothing happens (in business) unless you actually DO something! Talk gets you nowhere. I have made and sold thousands of grilles over the years with minimal advertising & promotion. Imagine what proper support would mean.

Recently have gone out on a limb and leased a larger building to use but it's a gamble.
As for clear? Painfully so, I am aware; you and I exchanged emails back in 2010 about me possibly buying your equipment.

As for your other "question" and indictment on being "cryptic", I thoroughly answered the question. What part of it don't you understand? As for the "style"part? I've sent you a PM.


Condescending dig on the speaker; doesn't have the "in crowd" seal of approval.

Lot of guys give the L100s a sort of conditional love, even some who have never heard or owned them (NOT saying that's the case here).

Part of a herd mentality that has created an atmosphere in which many L100 owners will open a post or a dialog about their speakers with an apology for doing so (owning and liking/loving L100s).

Anyway, it's a thinly veiled dump on what some think is the "cloth seat" crowd.

[Lee in Montreal]

Back orders? Tough turning out product when NO ONE shows ANY interest in giving a company (who's product is in demand worldwide) ANY *(*&(*^$^ help whatsoever! Lots of talk (which is cheap) but no one recognizes an opportunity when it stares them right in the face. No wonder this country's economy is going into the toilet.

I don't understand. Are you blaming non-investors for your back-orders? If so, it looks like something is wrong in your business model then. The recipe is simple. With very little funds, you make a small batch. Sell them and keep all profits to produce a bigger batch. And bigger. And bigger. Then back orders become a thing of the past. You don't need investors or a bank loan to make speaker grills.

[BMWCCA]

Sheesh. I go away for a couple of hours to earn a living and you guys go ape-shit! The comment on whatever my "style" is isn't deserving of an reply. Stupid is as stupid does.

"Fake-but-fun" was the revered Zilch's descriptive sobriquet for the L100 Century and their ilk. It's become well accepted as a perfect description of what makes the L100 the L100. I grew up with L100s and never liked them when they were new. I'm not jumping on a bandwagon. They earned and deserve their place in history and their reputation. All the rest of the comments in this thread related to the term are pretty much horse shit, but you get what you pay for around here when the bandwidth is monopolized by those who are just angry at the world.

Carry on, if you must. I'm relaxin' listening to my favorite JBLs! :dancin:

[Wagner]

Sheesh. I go away for a couple of hours to earn a living and you guys go ape-shit! The comment on whatever my "style" is isn't deserving of an reply. Stupid is as stupid does.

"Fake-but-fun" was the revered Zilch's descriptive sobriquet for the L100 Century and their ilk. It's become well accepted as a perfect description of what makes the L100 the L100. I grew up with L100s and never liked them when they were new. I'm not jumping on a bandwagon. They earned and deserve their place in history and their reputation. All the rest of the comments in this thread related to the term are pretty much horse shit, but you get what you pay for around here when the bandwidth is monopolized by those who are just angry at the world.

Carry on, if you must. I'm relaxin' listening to my favorite JBLs! :dancin:
Yeah, and an arrogant self important ass is an ass. :dancin:

"Stupid"
"Ilk"
"Horse shit"
"Angry at the world"

I am aware of the author, and the origins, of "fake but fun". It was never meant or intended in the spirit with which you use it and you're sure as hell no "Zilch" pal.

Very condescending you are, especially with the double talk (trying to walk your actions back, hiding behind Evan Flavell).
When you slipped that dig in there, it was NOT in the spirit Evan intended with his affectionate descriptive of the L100; I know it (and YOU know it too)
You used it for cover:

Anyone with those fake-but-fun models around here have a ruler??

See the way that is written, how awkward it reads? We all know what model we're talking about here, it's in the thread's TITLE.
You know that too, that's what drew you in.
You didn't qualify and credit the Zilch quote in that post when you made it, "sonofagun" had to ask you what you meant by it............so obviously it's not a universally known, or accepted quip.

Why couldn't you simply say to the OP "hey, maybe a forum member who owns a pair of L100s can help you out with your measurements" and leave it at that?

Why, when L100s are being discussed, can't we all be spared hearing your "position" on them with every thread? Even when the subject has NOTHING to do with their drivers OR sound or comparing them to another model..................rather, the DAMN GRILLES!

I don't give a shit what bandwagon you are or aren't on. I could care less if you like L100s or not. Just don't need to hear it EVERY TIME the subject comes up and I bet that if I look, that will be the case with you. In fact I know it will.

If you don't like L100s, why are you reading L100 threads? Looking to learn something new about yet another model you've either "grown up with", been around all your life or owned at least 3 pairs of?

Your and a couple other's devotion to feeling the need to some how denigrate the model EVERY TIME IT COMES UP has grown very tiresome.

[Wagner]

Sheesh. I go away for a couple of hours to earn a living and you guys go ape-shit! The comment on whatever my "style" is isn't deserving of an reply. Stupid is as stupid does.

Yet, you make one anyway

I'm actually surprised you didn't bring on your tired ass "there's better" L112 lecture for the OP's enjoyment and enlightenment

[durendal]

https://lynettenoni.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/popcorn.jpg

[sonofagun]

I don't understand. Are you blaming non-investors for your back-orders? If so, it looks like something is wrong in your business model then. The recipe is simple. With very little funds, you make a small batch. Sell them and keep all profits to produce a bigger batch. And bigger. And bigger. Then back orders become a thing of the past. You don't need investors or a bank loan to make speaker grills.

Oh if it was only that simple - that's pretty much what I've tried for many years but it just doesn't always work that way. Other things tend to get in the way of re-investing any profits into growing the business - silly things like food to eat, a roof over your head, car payments and insurance, gas, electric, phone, internet, etc. Now combine that with other factors such as making mistakes along the way (aka "the learning curve") which cost you $$, difficulty with suppliers (bad material; slow delivery), not understanding computers or online marketing, plus getting older every day (not to mention the resultant stress all these things introduce :crying:). Small batches just don't generate sufficient profit to fund growth. Making these one or two at a time and MANUALLY BY HAND gets very tedious and tiresome after many years. Each requires multiple cuts and make a mistake on one cut (even the LAST one) and the piece is ruined :banghead:. Tried (for over 7 years!) to build a cnc setup to eliminate manual errors and tedium but couldn't get (or afford to hire) the expertise to get it operational. Takes a minimum of $5K to get such to work or at least having the know-how to build it yourself which was/is beyond me (and a lot of so-called electronics/computer "experts" in my area I asked for help from). Everything you do or try cost you time and $$. Much easier having sufficient funding so you can do things the best, most efficient way right from the start!

Bottom line remains - product(s) is in demand and I'm offering someone the opportunity to get involved in growing a very profitable company with unlimited growth potential in the loudspeaker business (and others). I'd think :blink: this forum would be a good place to make such an offer :confused:. Keep in mind it's just not L100 grilles I'm swamped with demand for but foam grilles for dozens of other makes and models - domestic brands and foreign (see my website). I have plans for complete loudspeaker systems as well including re-introducing an updated version of the L100 with improved construction and performance. Amazes me that no one even takes the time to thoroughly investigate and get details from me so they can make an intelligent decision. As I say (and you can quote me):

"Nothing happens in business unless you make it happen!"

Another thing to keep in mind - just one contract with a major speaker maker to provide them grilles could be thousands of $$ of profits but I better be big enough to handle it. Almost landed such a contract (7 figures) with a little company (initials JBL) a couple years ago :eek:.

Final notes: I would suggest a moderator clean up this thread by removing some of the derogatory, attack posts which have no place on this forum.

Durendal - maybe you could become my European distributor for foam grilles? Save you a lot of headaches!

[sonofagun]

I never have cared that much for the L100s (old ones admittedly) I've heard and when you take one apart there certainly seems to be room for improvement - i.e. better drivers, x-over design, and cabinet materials and construction.

Also eliminate the wooden grille frame!! I've concluded most speaker manufacturers apparently give little thought to the design and incorporation of the grille with the overall design. Becomes an imperfectly designed afterthought.

By the way, it's grilles; not grills!

[JeffW]

Yeah!

https://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/flavor-flav-grillz1.png

[sonofagun]

Cute. Another cryptic post.

Mind explaining it or are we just trying to appear clever by cluttering a discussion with nonsense?

[JeffW]

It's a grill. No "e" :D

[DingDing]

...

Just to be clear I'm not an angel investor, but will you give a ball park figure of how much are you looking for, just to put a number on it. Also, this is not meant to be condescending. I'm just saying it like I see it, and hopefully there's some value in it.

Bankers and professional investors are smart money and they not only invest in your product and its potential, but in you. If you present the investment opportunity as how it will benefit you in the manufacturing and daily operations they frankly won't give a shit. They want to know how big the market is, your cash flow, balance sheet, earlier results, estimated growth, margins, how much profit you can make, basically the risk and ROI for them and data to back it up.

You have to make your presentation all about them, concatenating all of your needs into 'raw materials, inventory and machinery'. An investor doesn't care about you, they care about making profits. If you've been at this for a number of years but haven't gotten anywhere they're going to be skeptical. If they ask you why you haven't come any further and you start bashing circumstances etc, they see that as a big red flag and they're off. An investor needs to see someone who are able to take full responsibility. Remember that everyone asking for investments are confident their opportunity is solid as gold. Likewise, every investor is skeptical. One question they will ask you is: "Ok, and if this hits off, what will hinder someone else from setting up shop and pushing the prices down?" and "Are you allowed to use JBL's branding in your marketing without risk of lawsuit if you grow big?". You need good answers to these kinds of questions.

I looked at your crowd funding campaign and I'm sorry to say it sucked. You need to make a video presenting yourself and your product and have pretty pictures of your product. Maybe contact earlier customers and ask for some pictures of the products in use so you can show them off. Also, from all your earlier and waiting customers you should build an email list. If you have a lot of people interested in your product why not put some effort into a campaign and ship off some promoting emails to all those people you've served and turned down? Just make it about the grilles and give them an offer which is hard to refuse. Show your passion for the product and the excellence of it. Customers will relate to that, as they are also passionate about their speakers.

Not saying that this will put you where you want to be, but it's an idea. Go look at the successful crowdfunding campaigns, it's all about offers and emotions.

$.02

[Lee in Montreal]

I still don't understand why sonofagun needed an investor back then.

Buy a used grill. Take measurements.

Take your drawings and visit a few CNC shops that cut foam. Ask for a quote for 50, 100, 200 grilles

Come back to any audio forum and offer a killer price on the first batch on pre-sale. With enough profit margin to at least cover your development expenses.

What you get is a first prototype batch that costs you nothing if pre-sold, your first free advertizement, and the proof that your product is solid. And you will end up with pictures showing your product really exists, is top notch, and available.

From this experience, you decide if you continue or stop. And you don't need an investor to do that. ;-)

Lee

[Wagner]

I still don't understand why sonofagun needed an investor back then.

Buy a used grill. Take measurements.

Take your drawings and visit a few CNC shops that cut foam. Ask for a quote for 50, 100, 200 grilles

Come back to any audio forum and offer a killer price on the first batch on pre-sale. With enough profit margin to at least cover your development expenses.

What you get is a first prototype batch that costs you nothing if pre-sold, your first free advertizement, and the proof that your product is solid. And you will end up with pictures showing your product really exists, is top notch, and available.

From this experience, you decide if you continue or stop. And you don't need an investor to do that. ;-)

Lee
That's correct, you don't understand because obviously you don't know the whole back story to "sonofagun's" Quadrex grille enterprise/efforts.
If I am not mistaken, they may very well predate your membership here.
In other words, you're talking out of your hat now, and hindsight advice from the kibitzers is always 20/20.

On another note; your metal works projects, do you do them at your employer's place or is that machining operation where you fabricate your prototypes your own business?

[Lee in Montreal]

That's correct, you don't understand because obviously you don't know the whole back story to "sonofagun's" Quadrex grille enterprise/efforts.
If I am not mistaken, they may very well predate your membership here.
In other words, you're talking out of your hat now, and hindsight advice from the kibitzers is always 20/20.

Holly shit. I hope I missread you. Talk about being patronizing. Looks like you busted the meter today... :eek:

Sonofagun's venture is posted all over this forum. So, that he predates or postdates my membership has absolutely nothing to do. Unless you can share you thoughts with us.


On another note; your metal works projects, do you do them at your employer's place or is that machining operation where you fabricate your prototypes your own business?

My "metal work projects" as you call them, are part of my own business. And I don't own a single machine. I don't need any and have no time for that. I design, supervise production and sell. What you saw me produce on this forum is less than 1% of what I do. So, I may have way more experience than you think in starting and running a business returning profit. Started with zero money down. Never had a loan. Never used a credit card to finance. I work alone. Designed perhaps 200 parts. Sell $1000 per day of highly specialized automotive and motorccyle parts with 60 to 85% profit margin. And I work only a couple of hours per day usually... 53 and basically half retired. Riding my motorcycle several months a year around this earth.

Was in Alabama, Mississipi and Louisiana last week.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v668/Lee_Vuong/2015%20Mississippi/DSC03698_zpsipvipndr.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v668/Lee_Vuong/2015%20Mississippi/DSC03759_zpsej6qrqke.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v668/Lee_Vuong/2015%20Mississippi/DSC03795_zpsdjuy9uh8.jpg

Therefore, unlike you suggested, I do not talk out of a hat when it comes to starting a business and it's financing. :applaud:

Lee

[1audiohack]

Holly shit. I hope I missread you. Talk about being patronizing. Looks like you busted the meter today... :eek:

Sonofagun's venture is posted all over this forum. So, that he predates or postdates my membership has absolutely nothing to do. Unless you can share you thoughts with us.



My "metal work projects" as you call them, are part of my own business. And I don't own a single machine. I don't need any and have no time for that. I design, supervise production and sell. What you saw me produce on this forum is less than 1% of what I do. So, I may have way more experience than you think in starting and running a business returning profit. Started with zero money down. Never had a loan. Never used a credit card to finance. I work alone. Designed perhaps 200 parts. Sell $1000 per day of highly specialized automotive and motorccyle parts with 60 to 85% profit margin. And I work only a couple of hours per day usually... 53 and basically half retired. Riding my motorcycle several months a year around this earth.

Was in Alabama, Mississipi and Louisiana last week.

....

Therefore, unlike you suggested, I do not talk out of a hat when it comes to starting a business and it's financing. :applaud:

Lee

What?!? You didn't build that!!! Your just one of the LUCKY ONES!!! Hahaha. :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Lee you are my kind of guy.

Barry.

[Wagner]

Holly shit. I hope I missread you. Talk about being patronizing. Looks like you busted the meter today... :eek:

Sonofagun's venture is posted all over this forum. So, that he predates or postdates my membership has absolutely nothing to do. Unless you can share you thoughts with us.



My "metal work projects" as you call them, are part of my own business. And I don't own a single machine. I don't need any and have no time for that. I design, supervise production and sell. What you saw me produce on this forum is less than 1% of what I do. So, I may have way more experience than you think in starting and running a business returning profit. Started with zero money down. Never had a loan. Never used a credit card to finance. I work alone. Designed perhaps 200 parts. Sell $1000 per day of highly specialized automotive and motorccyle parts with 60 to 85% profit margin. And I work only a couple of hours per day usually... 53 and basically half retired. Riding my motorcycle several months a year around this earth.

Was in Alabama, Mississipi and Louisiana last week.

Therefore, unlike you suggested, I do not talk out of a hat when it comes to starting a business and it's financing. :applaud:

Lee

Ah, the life of the ramblin' man, bachelor genius!
A veritable Renaissance Man
How lucky you are, I am so envious!
And generous enough too! "Sharing" on a public forum his impressive profit margins and sales figures! Only 15-40% in materials, transportation AND labor? THAT IS IMPRESSIVE! With such low overhead I imagine the tax man loves to see you every year though :(.

Unless you can share you thoughts with us.
Why thank you, I think I shall!

It was a simple question, your machinery or facility or someone else's?

If I am understanding you correctly, you have no manufacturing business, you have no manufacturing capability, rather you are part of the new "services and information" economy and that's cool too.
So when your friends with the lathes go under then you can sub out your bits to someone else or better yet to someone in china. Correct?

The new ways help keep things exciting, huh?!

Do you by chance have actual machinist's skills (hands on)? Or are you simply the visionary?

Hope you are able to find another as equitable arraignment as whatever it is you are reluctant to share with me here, if that time ever comes.

Maybe something like this?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWHniL8MyMM

All kidding aside:
Your grand business acumen doesn't apply to "sonofagun"s" wants, needs or woes, whether you agree with his attitude or methodology or not, apples to oranges.

You subcontract, with little to zero capital expenditures in fixed assets, that's all you had to say.

Not patronizing to make things clear: what "sonofagun" wants is an entirely different animal from your sublet new world hustle. Much more visible too.

Not interested in your motorcycle parts business, but I will say this since you regaled us with your business prowess; it is much easier to sell custom fabrication problem solvers for bikes than foam speaker grilles, I guarantee you that.
(I have more than 40 years in the carriage trade)
Probably 1000x the market or more, maybe 10,000x.

You may wish to consider licensing or selling your brilliant ideas as well and walk away a bazillionaire, ridding yourself of any and all legal liabilities to boot.
ESPECIALLY if you are selling auto and motorcycle parts into the U.S.A. for the purposes of modification or deviating from the manufacturer's original design. Our DOT, EPA and IRS can be rabid at times, not to mention the personal injury attorneys! And California? Forget about it; deep pockets here too, all the way!

Then you could ride your bike 7 days a week, without a care in the world except how to carry all that money on that bike or where to put it! (don't know what you make for autos, but I am sure you know those disclaimers for off road use don't mean shit in court)

As for the 1% comment and how surprised I'd be at what you know about running a business? I'm not certain I follow you there; why do you think I would be interested?

I'm not and I wasn't.

When you made a decided argument against EVERY suggestion made in your turntable isolation thread, by more than a few posters, it became crystal clear to me that you are a know it all and are just not going to change any position on anything if you think you are right.
And THAT'S cool too.
Some people find that quality attractive, the "rugged individual" as it were.
But it is also why your Technics SL-1200 isolation system will never go any further than this forum and the handful of guinea pigs you have comped.
You might sell 100 of them if you're incredibly lucky.

But as you've brought it up and criticized "sonofagun"'s efforts so readily, what IS your "brick and mortar" enterprise?

And how aggravating/arduous a task is it dealing with/paying your tax liability here in the U.S.A.? What's the rate?

Lastly, what is your line of bike and auto parts? (company or parts name?) Are you on anyone's line-card here in Northern California?

Might have some feedback for ya!

[durendal]

Hi guys,

Right now I'm not sure who is more off topic ;)
Me or yours discussions?

I'm after first tests and now I'm waiting for the right materials.

67682

[Wagner]

Hi guys,

Right now I'm not sure who is more off topic ;)
Me or yours discussions?

I'm after first tests and now I'm waiting for the right materials.

67682
Please accept my apology, sincerely.

The grille insert looks beautiful! With all the obstacles being thrown in your way via this thread, what and how was your final decision made regarding dimensions?

Did you solve the height question?

You may send me my sample promotional pair anytime you wish, I will PM you my address. :)
(any color you choose for me will be fine, but the orange best matches my eyes)

[sonofagun]

Quoting DingDing: Just to be clear I'm not an angel investor, but will you give a ball park figure of how much are you looking for, just to put a number on it. Also, this is not meant to be condescending. I'm just saying it like I see it, and hopefully there's some value in it.

LET'S SAY A MINIMUM OF $500-1000/MO FOR THE NEXT SEVERAL MONTHS TO HELP COVER SOME OF THE RECENTLY ADDED OVERHEAD EXPENSES WHILE SOLUTIONS TO THE PRODUCTION PROBLEMS ARE SOLVED.

Bankers and professional investors are smart money and they not only invest in your product and its potential, but in you. If you present the investment opportunity as how it will benefit you in the manufacturing and daily operations they frankly won't give a shit. They want to know how big the market is, your cash flow, balance sheet, earlier results, estimated growth, margins, how much profit you can make, basically the risk and ROI for them and data to back it up.

You have to make your presentation all about them, concatenating all of your needs into 'raw materials, inventory and machinery'. An investor doesn't care about you, they care about making profits. If you've been at this for a number of years but haven't gotten anywhere they're going to be skeptical. If they ask you why you haven't come any further and you start bashing circumstances etc, they see that as a big red flag and they're off.

AS I MENTIONED, IT'S MORE UNDER-CAPITALIZATION AND LACK OF ANY GOOD HELP (such as a good partner familiar with the market).

An investor needs to see someone who are able to take full responsibility. Remember that everyone asking for investments are confident their opportunity is solid as gold. Likewise, every investor is skeptical. One question they will ask you is: "Ok, and if this hits off, what will hinder someone else from setting up shop and pushing the prices down?"

BECAUSE I AM WAY AHEAD OF THEM ON THE LEARNING AND MARKETING CURVE.

and "Are you allowed to use JBL's branding in your marketing without risk of lawsuit if you grow big?".

THIS IS NOT A PROBLEM AS THE PRODUCT IS NOT "LABELED" WITH THE JBL NAME.

I looked at your crowd funding campaign and I'm sorry to say it sucked. You need to make a video presenting yourself and your product and have pretty pictures of your product. Maybe contact earlier customers and ask for some pictures of the products in use so you can show them off. Also, from all your earlier and waiting customers you should build an email list. If you have a lot of people interested in your product why not put some effort into a campaign and ship off some promoting emails to all those people you've served and turned down? Just make it about the grilles and give them an offer which is hard to refuse. Show your passion for the product and the excellence of it. Customers will relate to that, as they are also passionate about their speakers.
Not saying that this will put you where you want to be, but it's an idea. Go look at the successful crowdfunding campaigns, it's all about offers and emotions.

WAY OVER MY HEAD DOING ALL THAT BY MYSELF!! BUT I MAY HAVE SOMEONE HIRED SOON THAT COULD DO A BETTER JOB (UNDERSTANDS THE PROCESS BETTER).

[sonofagun]

I still don't understand why sonofagun needed an investor back then.

Buy a used grill. Take measurements.

Take your drawings and visit a few CNC shops that cut foam. Ask for a quote for 50, 100, 200 grilles

Come back to any audio forum and offer a killer price on the first batch on pre-sale. With enough profit margin to at least cover your development expenses.

What you get is a first prototype batch that costs you nothing if pre-sold, your first free advertizement, and the proof that your product is solid. And you will end up with pictures showing your product really exists, is top notch, and available.

From this experience, you decide if you continue or stop. And you don't need an investor to do that. ;-)

Lee

Well, AGAIN I have to say "if it was only so easy" (or in other words, been there, tried that!)! I have submitted dimensions of the L100 grilles to several large foam fabricators and they could not produce as good a product as I do myself. Yes they could produce in quantities but the quality just wasn't there. Believe me, I've just about tried everything.

Starting work right now on a new faster manual setup for making the grilles - but wish me luck :crying:!

A few personal notes: For as long as I've been in business, I have lived (and still do) WELL below the poverty level barely eking out a living. Haven't had a vacation in over 10 years (and that wasn't much); take very little time off for "fun". Only companionship is a 15 year old cat. Always have had to work with second (or third) hand computers and have constant problems using one/working on line* yet I pay over $110/mo (and always going up!) for just phone + (slow & aggravating/rural location) internet!

Just in case anyone thinks I'm lazy or living high.

*Even now as I try to add this!

[DingDing]

Based on what you're saying I don't think you need luck, you just need to be a sweat shop and get on with it, spending every minute you can making the grilles until you have the capital to automate some of the processes. Obsessing over how you would like everything to run as smooth as a Toyota production line won't get you anywhere right now it seems. I think you may be letting your inner perfectionist stand in your way here.

You may want to think in terms of evolution instead of revolution, making each iteration of your operation faster and better. Which seems exactly like what you're doing with your new setup. Bravo! :D

If you already have a lot of demand, you won't even need fancy campaigns, you just need to make product and get it out there. People will post pictures and write about you on the internets and people will find you with a simple google search. After all, most of your customers will probably be looking for your product actively.

All of this is so Captain Obvious I'm almost embarrassed to write it...

A book I enjoyed a lot is http://www.amazon.com/E-Myth-Revisited-Small-Businesses-About/dp/0887307280

It will help you analyze your own situation, thinking processes and possibly motivate you. I think it will ring deeply with your desire for perfection and turn key operations. It certainly did for me.

[Lee in Montreal]

Ah, the life of the ramblin' man, bachelor genius!
A veritable Renaissance Man
How lucky you are, I am so envious!
And generous enough too! "Sharing" on a public forum his impressive profit margins and sales figures! Only 15-40% in materials, transportation AND labor? THAT IS IMPRESSIVE! With such low overhead I imagine the tax man loves to see you every year though :(.

Why thank you, I think I shall!

It was a simple question, your machinery or facility or someone else's?

If I am understanding you correctly, you have no manufacturing business, you have no manufacturing capability, rather you are part of the new "services and information" economy and that's cool too.
So when your friends with the lathes go under then you can sub out your bits to someone else or better yet to someone in china. Correct?

The new ways help keep things exciting, huh?!

Do you by chance have actual machinist's skills (hands on)? Or are you simply the visionary?

Hope you are able to find another as equitable arraignment as whatever it is you are reluctant to share with me here, if that time ever comes.

Maybe something like this?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWHniL8MyMM

All kidding aside:
Your grand business acumen doesn't apply to "sonofagun"s" wants, needs or woes, whether you agree with his attitude or methodology or not, apples to oranges.

You subcontract, with little to zero capital expenditures in fixed assets, that's all you had to say.

Not patronizing to make things clear: what "sonofagun" wants is an entirely different animal from your sublet new world hustle. Much more visible too.

Not interested in your motorcycle parts business, but I will say this since you regaled us with your business prowess; it is much easier to sell custom fabrication problem solvers for bikes than foam speaker grilles, I guarantee you that.
(I have more than 40 years in the carriage trade)
Probably 1000x the market or more, maybe 10,000x.

You may wish to consider licensing or selling your brilliant ideas as well and walk away a bazillionaire, ridding yourself of any and all legal liabilities to boot.
ESPECIALLY if you are selling auto and motorcycle parts into the U.S.A. for the purposes of modification or deviating from the manufacturer's original design. Our DOT, EPA and IRS can be rabid at times, not to mention the personal injury attorneys! And California? Forget about it; deep pockets here too, all the way!

Then you could ride your bike 7 days a week, without a care in the world except how to carry all that money on that bike or where to put it! (don't know what you make for autos, but I am sure you know those disclaimers for off road use don't mean shit in court)

As for the 1% comment and how surprised I'd be at what you know about running a business? I'm not certain I follow you there; why do you think I would be interested?

I'm not and I wasn't.

When you made a decided argument against EVERY suggestion made in your turntable isolation thread, by more than a few posters, it became crystal clear to me that you are a know it all and are just not going to change any position on anything if you think you are right.
And THAT'S cool too.
Some people find that quality attractive, the "rugged individual" as it were.
But it is also why your Technics SL-1200 isolation system will never go any further than this forum and the handful of guinea pigs you have comped.
You might sell 100 of them if you're incredibly lucky.

But as you've brought it up and criticized "sonofagun"'s efforts so readily, what IS your "brick and mortar" enterprise?

And how aggravating/arduous a task is it dealing with/paying your tax liability here in the U.S.A.? What's the rate?

Lastly, what is your line of bike and auto parts? (company or parts name?) Are you on anyone's line-card here in Northern California?

Might have some feedback for ya!

Wow. Looks like Wagner shouldn't stop taking his medication. And it even becomes extremely funny. Just don't stop your stand-up comic routine dude. It is quite entertaining... Especially that all your ass-umptions are totally wrong... :applaud:

[BMWCCA]

67686

[sonofagun]

Based on what you're saying I don't think you need luck, you just need to be a sweat shop and get on with it, spending every minute you can making the grilles until you have the capital to automate some of the processes. Obsessing over how you would like everything to run as smooth as a Toyota production line won't get you anywhere right now it seems. I think you may be letting your inner perfectionist stand in your way here.

You may want to think in terms of evolution instead of revolution, making each iteration of your operation faster and better. Which seems exactly like what you're doing with your new setup. Bravo! :D

If you already have a lot of demand, you won't even need fancy campaigns, you just need to make product and get it out there. People will post pictures and write about you on the internets and people will find you with a simple google search. After all, most of your customers will probably be looking for your product actively.

All of this is so Captain Obvious I'm almost embarrassed to write it...

A book I enjoyed a lot is http://www.amazon.com/E-Myth-Revisited-Small-Businesses-About/dp/0887307280

It will help you analyze your own situation, thinking processes and possibly motivate you. I think it will ring deeply with your desire for perfection and turn key operations. It certainly did for me.

Well you (and others) can "armchair quarterback" this all you want but try walking in my shoes for a while and see how far you get. That's enough please - I need REAL help here, not advice.

[DingDing]

Well you (and others) can "armchair quarterback" this all you want but try walking in my shoes for a while and see how far you get. That's enough please

Very sorry, didn't mean to insult you. I know what it's like running a small operation myself.

[SEAWOLF97]

Anyone with those fake-but-fun models around here have a ruler??

well, it's always been rather "in style" around here to bash L-100's. I've done it in the past, but some of the snarky set will do it forever.

I have my 4311B's (most call identical to L-100's) going right now. Admittedly they are being fed well with a nicely remastered (from DVD) CD through a 24/192 DAC and 150wpc pushing them , but damn ..they sound good. Sure, I've got many bigger/more expensive speakers, but even at today's "higher than new" prices, Century's are a lot of "bang for the buck"

Could live with this setup, if better weren't lucking around the house. all I'm saying is don't bash the L-100/4311B if you haven't heard them at the end of a more modern system chain. :)

Oh yeah, I turned up the FUN knob and turned down the FAKE one :)

topic tie-in: 4311b's with quadrex grille :)

[Wagner]

well, it's always been rather "in style" around here to bash L-100's. I've done it in the past, but some of the snarky set will do it forever.

I have my 4311B's (most call identical to L-100's) going right now. Admittedly they are being fed well with a nicely remastered (from DVD) CD through a 24/192 DAC and 150wpc pushing them , but damn ..they sound good. Sure, I've got many bigger/more expensive speakers, but even at today's "higher than new" prices, Century's are a lot of "bang for the buck"

Could live with this setup, if better weren't lucking around the house. all I'm saying is don't bash the L-100/4311B if you haven't heard them at the end of a more modern system chain. :)

Oh yeah, I turned up the FUN knob and turned down the FAKE one :)

topic tie-in: 4311b's with quadrex grille :)
Yeah, but that's some of that thar Radio Shack FAKE "Quadrex" there Buddy! ;)

[Wagner]

I have my 4311B's (most call identical to L-100's) going right now.
Next time you are able, please do the 1.5V test at the input terminals and tell me which way your woofers move.
Would be of great assistance and maybe I'll stop thinking about this losing game for a while.
Would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Thomas

[Wagner]

Admittedly they are being fed well with a nicely remastered (from DVD) CD through a 24/192 DAC and 150wpc pushing them , but damn ..they sound good. Sure, I've got many bigger/more expensive speakers, but even at today's "higher than new" prices, Century's are a lot of "bang for the buck"

Could live with this setup, if better weren't lucking around the house. all I'm saying is don't bash the L-100/4311B if you haven't heard them at the end of a more modern system chain. :)
Sound pretty damn good too with a good tube amp, 30 watts or better. With a bigger bottle like the 7591 they will play way outside the boxes and it's smooth.

[Zombie]

Thinking about ordering foam to my L100s.
But how on earth is the foam fixed to the frame?
No velcro, no tight countersink...:confused:

[Don C]

Glue.
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?2794-L-100-fund-raiser-project&p=26698&viewfull=1#post26698

Take note of Sonofagun's advice to have the foam facing up while curing, so that glue doesn't flow onto the front of the grille.

[sonofagun]

Am willing to relocate to partner with anyone interested in the grille business - lots of $$ to be made!

[sonofagun]

OK - about ready to give up on this - still swamped with orders (usually prepaid) and inquiries. I'm open to ANY kind of offers of partnership to help this business (PM me). Need some younger blood for revitalization! Unlimited growth opportunity to the right person. I'll relocate if need be (with help) and at least want to be involved as an adviser.