upgrade Everest DD66000

[Brian DK]

Is there anyone who has information, if Harman will release an upgrade to DD66000 owners, to the new DD67000.?

[4313B]

My understanding of the whole situation is that the Harman buyer/planners have very little interest in ordering product that isn't a 100% finished good. It seems they loathe spare parts. Everyone I talk to has to fight tooth and nail for parts, including DD66000 to DD67000 upgrade parts. Everyone I talk to used to be extremely aggravated about the situation. These days none of them really care. I really don't either. You very well could be the only one that cares anymore. :rotfl:

And yes, I even tried the "you're really going to tell someone who just spent $60k on a pair of loudspeakers that they can't upgrade to the latest version?" tact and that too was met with utter indifference.

But who knows, maybe something has changed in the past week and now all those parts are available. :dont-know:

[LowPhreak]

My understanding of the whole situation is that the Harman buyer/planners have very little interest in ordering product that isn't a 100% finished good. It seems they loathe spare parts. Everyone I talk to has to fight tooth and nail for parts, ...

Yes, and if my experience of trying to get a mere set of replacement grilles (under warranty) for 590's was anything to go by, I'd say this is the case. Took the better part of a year. Chris Smith even scoured Europe at one point and a few months in said there might have been a set in France. Turned out to be vaporware. I don't know where/how he got the set that was eventually shipped. Credit to him though for hanging with it.

Apparently Harman doesn't like any spare inventory lying around. Might cost them a few cents profit margin.

[Ducatista47]

While a JBL version of Great Plains would fill the bill nicely, since Harman has no interest in that sort of thing anymore, it would take an exceptional individual to fill the need and we would need to support it. A shame not one thing in that sentence is the least bit likely except Harman's complete lack of interest in legacy support or customers who want anything but the latest model.

I don't blame them; they are a typical comtemporary corporation and we must seem pests to them. On the other hand, caring nothing for purchasers of your own very expensive products is really an indefensible attitude. Considering your goods like kleenex at those price levels makes you look like an idiot or a villain. No question that this is the corporation that purchased Studer and destroyed all the spare parts.

[Mr. Widget]

Is there anyone who has information, if Harman will release an upgrade to DD66000 owners, to the new DD67000.?The upgrade parts would be the woofers and networks. I bugged a number of people at Harman for a couple of years and then I quit because it wasn't worth the effort. Also I decided it was hard to rationalize spending a few thousand dollars for a fairly subtle upgrade.

Of course in a world where people feel a $995 power cord makes the difference between an excellent system and an unlistenable one... :blink:


Widget

[Odd]

Yes, it's a shame they do not take care of their previous good reputation when it comes to spare parts.

Harman should think again and do as Porsche, they have parts for most cars they have produced.


Service & Zubehör (http://www.porsche.com/germany/accessoriesandservices/classic/)

[BMWCCA]

Harman should think again and do as Porsche, they have parts for most cars they have produced.

I was a Porsche dealer for 20 years and they did a horrible job of supplying parts for their classics until fairly recently.

It's a different equation when a car that sold for less than $3000 in the '50s is now selling regularly for a quarter-million or more. Speedster owners will pay what it takes for original parts. It'd be a lot easier for JBL to charge enough to make money supplying parts for, say a Paragon, if the Paragon owner knew he could get $250,000 for his JBL.

Now British Motor Heritage Trust will supply you with a complete body for an MG-B for £8,456.00. That's more than many MG-Bs will ever sell for but at least they make the parts available. Most automobile manufacturers simply contract with outside suppliers to make spares available. Porsche actually makes very few of their own parts. BMW recently started a subsidiary (first Mobile Tradition and now BMW Classics) and still does a piss-poor job of supplying parts for their heritage models. About the only part I can buy for my 1964 BMW 700 convertibles is the tiny oil filter, and BMW gets $26 for that. They also offer the starter relay for $753!

Makes the last o-rings I bought for my 035Tis a real bargain!

[4313B]

I finally got LEAP loaded onto a PC after several years of downtime. Just for grins I plugged the DD67000 network values into the DD66000 LEAP file G.T. provided years ago and here is the result. It would seem that the 1501AL-2's used in the DD67000 are sufficiently different from the original DD66000 1501AL's; the DD67000 VLF and LF networks cause a bit of a rise from the 1501AL's.

I also looked at the original DD66000 with and without the 045Be.

[4313B]

Here is theoretically what happens if the DD66000 LF network is left in while only the VLF, HF and UHF networks are upgraded to the DD67000 versions.

[4313B]

And finally, here is theoretically what happens if only the HF and UHF networks are upgraded to DD67000 versions.

[4313B]

In any case, if for some bizarre reason Harman were to ever release an upgrade kit, both the 1501AL-2's and the DD67000 networks would arguably be the desirable package as opposed to just one or the other. At this point though I can't see it happening.

[Mr. Widget]

I've owned my DD66000s for many years now and have enjoyed them immensely. They are dynamic as hell like the better Altec and large format JBLs of the past but with superior imaging and refined frequency response... I also love the way they look.

All that said, getting the bass to integrate well into my room (and some others I've played with) has been a challenge. I'm not sure why this is the case, but to mitigate it I've set my DD66000s to the leanest bass possible by using the built in adjustments. I've also played around with placement and electronics. These adjustments have really helped. Fairly recently I used a new room measurement tool (LARSA by Studio Six Digital) and discovered a very high Q room mode at 72Hz. I inserted a Meyer Sound CP-10 and set one very narrow notch on each channel. This took me a long way towards achieving audio bliss.

Now with all that background, I have been bugging people I know at JBL on and off to sell me (4) 1501AL-2 woofers ever since the DD67000 was introduced and I heard GT's praise for the woofers . Amazingly I was finally able to get the woofers. (After years of nagging, begging, and generally harassing) They arrived last week and I installed them on Friday. I must say I was shocked at the change in character of the bass in my speakers. These woofers are a significant upgrade.

While I have been extremely pleased with my system with the adjustments noted above, there were certain pieces of music where the bass was just too full, soft, mushy, pick your adjective... basically on certain pieces of music the bass was distracting and I found myself avoiding playing these pieces of music that I would otherwise enjoy. With the new woofers installed and no other changes to the system the bass is taught, has texture, and yet is as ample as you could want. (This is after a several day and night break-in period. Initially while the cleaner and lower distortion mid-bass was immediately apparent, there was precious little low bass with the brand new drivers. I purposely avoided really listening to them until later in the day Sunday when they had time to run in a bit.) Awesome.


Widget

[Mr. Widget]

Widget: Are you changing out the crossovers as well when you upgrade to the 67's?I am so happy with the sound as is... I am not planning on it immediately, but will most likely build a pair of outboard networks so that the DD66000s are unmolested and I can see what the full blown upgrade is all about.


Widget

[Mr. Widget]

1501Al-2 are fantastic woofer!

1501al-2 are going to be used with my 476Be and 045Mg on H4365 with DD67000 network, I did try 476Be on both H9800 and H4365 and for me 476Be with DD67000 network sound so much better on H4365 than on H9800

I have also four 1501Al-1 that I am going to use with two pairs of 476Mg/M2 waveguides in DSP mode and Crown Studio Reference amplifiers:)


AriMoved from the "Sad Day" thread.

Widget

[Mr. Widget]

So you decided not to sell them :DMoved from the "Sad Day" thread.

Widget

[Mr. Widget]

I decided to keep both 1501Al-1 and 1501Al-2 and I do not regret it:)

I am very excited to try the DSP system with 1501Al-1 and 476Mg/M2 waveguide
I have also good quality in the Crown Studio Reference amplifiers



AriMoved from the "Sad Day" thread.

Widget

[JuniorJBL]

Congrats on your upgrade Widget! I bet they are just fantastic! :applaud:

I will just hold onto my 1500AL's, 1200Fe's and 2216ND's and call it a day. As you spoke before, I don't see JBL having anything like these drivers ever again and finding any more probably just got even harder. :(

[Challenger604]

I wonder how a $60,000 pair of speakers needs an upgrade!!!
Is it that bad??

[Mr. Widget]

I wonder how a $60,000 pair of speakers needs an upgrade!!!
Is it that bad??I'm sorry, did you read what I wrote?

No, it's not that bad. :banghead:

Compared to the 1500AL and 1501AL the 2231A and 2235H are completely inarticulate... does that make the vintage woofers bad? Of course not. I think the issue is when you buy a super high resolution system like this you notice minutiae that might go unnoticed elsewhere.


The most amazing part to me is how with continual research and hard work the engineering staff at JBL have been able to continually raise the bar. Well... at least until now. :(


Widget

[pos]

So what are you going to do with those ol' dirty 1501AL?
Time for some Timbers Array DIY, at last :D

[Challenger604]

I'm sorry, did you read what I wrote?

No, it's not that bad. :banghead:

Compared to the 1500AL and 1501AL the 2231A and 2235H are completely inarticulate... does that make the vintage woofers bad? Of course not. I think the issue is when you buy a super high resolution system like this you notice minutiae that might go unnoticed elsewhere.


The most amazing part to me is how with continual research and hard work the engineering staff at JBL have been able to continually raise the bar. Well... at least until now. :(


Widget

Ok ok!! Got ya!
C

[Mr. Widget]

So what are you going to do with those ol' dirty 1501AL?
Time for some Timbers Array DIY, at last :DI'm not sure... but they aren't going on eBay. ;)


Widget

[grumpy]

Lol, I sincerely doubt that would be necessary.

[Brian DK]

Widget.

Is ok to ask you how much you paid for the 4 stk 1501-1 woofers.
I'd love to do that upgrade my self.

Brian Dk.

[Brian DK]

Widget.

Is ok to ask you how much you paid for the 4 stk 1501-1 woofers.
I'd love to do that upgrade my self.

Brian Dk.


Sorry.. I meant 1501-2 Of cause 😄😄

[Mr. Widget]

I think it would be great if anyone wanting to go the upgrade route was able to... and people wanting to DIY their own JBL based systems could also buy 476Be and 1501AL-2 drivers or others, but JBL simply doesn't want to make that possible.

Unfortunately JBL has been moving steadily away from the company it was in years past. I was only able to get these woofers because of a contact I had at JBL doing me a favor.

I wish I could steer you in a direction that would make getting them possible, but I honestly don't know how you could get them.


Widget

[Wetubes]

I understand the 67000 baffle uses birch plywood vs MDF for 66000. Does this make a difference to the bass? Have anyone try tri amp using 2 Pass xover? What amps are best for the woofers?

[grumpy]

Does this make a difference to the bass?

I have no idea, or whether better or worse ... or different at all.
I would -expect- it to be subjectively less important than the drivers themselves.


Have anyone try tri amp using 2 Pass xover?

I know of one person who has tri-amped an Everest 2 system,
but 1) with a digital crossover which is unavailable to consumers :(,
and 2) he knows what the *&^% he is doing.


What amps are best for the woofers?

The aforementioned system used high quality class-D amplifiers for the
woofers and recent Pass amps on the 476Be drivers.

The system, as a whole, sounded insanely good, top to bottom.
I have been somewhat spoiled by the experience :D.