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View Full Version : Behringer DSP8024 -- will it work



slider908
11-14-2004, 09:07 PM
I'm thinking of getting a behringer 8024 to smooth things out a bit. my question is how will i connect it to my system. i have a receiver with RCA phono plug outs. what kind of adapter will i need and where can i get one.
i understand that this eq can automatically calibrate everything for flattest response, but can't do RTA at the same time, is this true?
also, do i have to buy anything extra to hook the 8024 up to my computer?
thanks,

-john

Zilch
11-14-2004, 10:29 PM
The spec sheet says it provides 1/4" phone plug inputs and outputs, including unbalanced. Check the manual to be sure, but if so, you'll need RCA phono pin to 1/4" phone plug cables. I use Hosa cables from Guitar Center or my Pro Audio store for such connections....

david yost
11-15-2004, 05:21 AM
The biggest problem you will face is to drive the Behringer with high enough input voltage to get full 24 bit resolution and low noise...it isn't suitable to put the unit between your pre and main amps. It should work if you put it between a source and your preamp, however, or if you have a line level processor loop.

I used RCA to 1/4 interconnects I bought at Mars Music before they went under. BTW, I think some of the 8024 units had digital inputs so you can run your CD player straight into it and avoid a couple of D/A and A/D conversions.

Lastly, there were a couple of good reviews of the Ultracurve posted on the net which talked about set-up. Perhaps you can still Google them.

Good luck.
David

tomp787
11-15-2004, 10:17 AM
Hello,

If your budget will allow it I suggest the replacement for the 8024: DEQ2496. It has more processing power so you can go eq and rta at the same time (as well as have more filters) and it has switchable input levels so your "home" levels can work without loss of signal to noise ratio. If the 8024 is your choice (it has a bigger display) be careful as stated above to maximize input levels. Perhaps you can put your volume control after the 8024 to maximize the signal to noise. This should minimize the internet observed problems with the 8024.

Regards,
Tom

Zilch
11-15-2004, 12:22 PM
Help me with the numbers, then:

1) "Home" level, like from a tape or preamp out is ? *mV?

2) "Pro" level, is more like 1.23Vrms (+4dBu)?

3) So the resolution of this unit drops from 24-bit to less than 8?

No, WAIT! Each bit cuts it in half, so 22-bits, then?

[I should look this stuff up, maybe....] :rolleyes:

*Specs on "home" gear here vary from 150mV to 2V. DUH!

boputnam
11-16-2004, 07:12 AM
The biggest problem you will face is to drive the Behringer with high enough input voltage to get full 24 bit resolution and low noise... Dood...

This post confounds. I've been waiting with Zilch out here, for an explaination of A/D degredation with low input voltage. I'm not that smart on this stuff - maybe you could explain?


...it isn't suitable to put the unit between your pre and main amps. This one drives me bats, and has to be in error - or, I'm confused by your syntax. The 8024 is designed to be AFTER the preamp (see attachments).


It should work if you put it between a source and your preamp... When/where would you ever want or need that much processing/EQ power for one source? I am mystified.

The dang thing should be used as a system EQ, post Mix or as Mix inserts, and before the mains. As well, the RTA function allows it to serve as a stand-alone (see attachment).

http://www.behringer.com/DSP8024/index.cfm?lang=ENG

tomp787
11-16-2004, 08:32 AM
Hello,

The 8024 full scale input is +22dBu while the deq2496 has switchable input levels of +12 or +22. So with home gear the 8024 is losing 10dB of signal to noise ratio to the 2496.

The 8024 maximum sampling rate is 48KHz while the 2496 max rate is 96KHz. I think of these inexpensive digital components like computer equipment: the older units may have sturdier construction but the newer ones usually have better internal components.

Regards,
Tom

david yost
11-16-2004, 09:14 AM
Try this link for a comprehensive review:

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0101/behringer8024.htm

I am no expert, but it seems that the top diagram above shows the Ultracurve in a mixer processor loop ahead of the amp. I think this is necessary to keep the input level high enough to maximize dynamic range and minimize noise. All I can tell you is that I never was able to get a decent performance out of my Ultracurve when it was used ahead of the power amp.

Mr. Widget
11-16-2004, 09:58 AM
i have a receiver with RCA phono plug outs. First, does your receiver have RCA ins as well? Some have outs but no ins. If you are using outboard amps this doesn't matter. If you have RCA ins and outs putting it in the loop should be no problem. You may experience ground loops, but that is always a potential when mixing pro/semi-pro gear with unbalanced home gear.

Since you are using a receiver, I will assume this is for a home stereo. Most outboard digital signal processors will have a sonic signature. You may find it is one that you may not like. I sure don't.

Widget

boputnam
11-16-2004, 10:03 AM
it seems that the top diagram above shows the Ultracurve in a mixer processor loop ahead of the amp. Kinda- it is the Mix Inserts, designed for patching the EQ to the mains. It is basically the pre-amp out, full Mix. On many consoles this can be too hot for some EQ's - I do not use the Mix Inserts on my Soundcraft anymore for just that reason, now chaining from the Mix outs to EQ to (snake and then) amp rack.


Anyway, I ended up with ... the Ultracurve Pro between the amplifier and preamplifier. ... most of my evaluation was done with Ultracurve Pro between pre-amplifier and power amplifier. Linking the Ultracurve Pro into the tape loop of my pre-amplifier did not prove to give very good sound, the Ultracurve Pro does like a lot more level than available there. 'xactly.

This badboy likes +4dBu (Pro) gear, I'm guessing, and connecting it to -10dBu (Consumer) would certainly decrease the S/N ratio. But, it needs be positioned before the amps and provided a sufficient gain structure. I'm thinking your preamp is to blame, here. Since you needed the RCA to 1/4 adaptors, I'm guessing it "consumer" grade, and therefore you're in a different world that what the Ultracurve was designed for.

But again, I was confused by your first post where the syntax suggested low input gain would degrade the 24-bit conversion - that is not what you meant.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Now, tell us how you liked the device, and what you are using it for. I'm not a fan of instant EQ - but give us your experiences.

Infredible
11-16-2004, 11:56 AM
I just brought one last week and have it plugged in a pre-out main-in situation using a Yamaha DSP-A1. So far I like it. I don't have any ground loop and that thing is pretty transparent, no backgroung noise without signal.
This is a fun machine to play with. You can store hundreds of different curves and recall them at any time for comparaison. You can mix curve in additive or substrative way. The RTA fonction is neat, it has an auto EQ fonction that can flatten your signal in 20 seconds. I can't stop playing with it. All in all it is a nice tool to have, it realy helped to correct my room response and I greatly improved my sound, it's like having new speakers.

Fred.

boputnam
11-16-2004, 12:46 PM
...it has an auto EQ fonction that can flatten your signal in 20 seconds. Freddie...

Can you post a picture of the resultant curve? I'm intrigued...

And:


I can't stop playing with it. Dood!! You'll lose your hearing... :rotfl:

Infredible
11-16-2004, 12:57 PM
Can you post a picture of the resultant curve? I'm intrigued...

I will when I'm home.

Fred.

Mr. Widget
11-16-2004, 01:01 PM
Quote:
<table cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" border="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> Originally Posted by Infredible
I can't stop playing with it.
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
Dood!! You'll lose your hearing... :rotfl:<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->
__________________
bo

I thought playing with it was supposed to give you warts. :confused:

Widget

Robh3606
11-16-2004, 02:19 PM
"I thought playing with it was supposed to give you warts. :confused:"

Nah just makes you blind:eek:

Rob:D

Zilch
11-16-2004, 02:43 PM
The reviewer tried it in the tape monitor loop, unsuccessfully. Too little output, apparently. Yup. Seems to be only about 150 mV there in mine.

So, he puts it on his preamp out and cranks the volume to 2:00 as standard setting based upon clipping indicators and uses the amp volume controls to set the listening level.

Alas, no remote on the amp volume, and no remote on the EQ so he extends his cables to locate the EQ at his listening position to tweak from there. He ends up with different EQ curves for each of his favorite recordings. ACK!

I must say the two newer units (one inadvertent) are kinda interesting. Maybe time to hoof it down to the Pro Audio shop to find out more what's up:

http://www.behringer.com/DCX2496/index.cfm?lang=ENG

http://www.behringer.com/DEQ2496/index.cfm?lang=ENG

boputnam
11-16-2004, 03:07 PM
He ends up with different EQ curves for each of his favorite recordings. ACK! :banghead:

Hey, Zilch...

As you know, Behringer makes some interesting and priced-right stuff. However, the audio quality, while arguably passable in live settings, may not be sufficient for audiophile applications.

If this noise interests you, you might look at Ashly's Protea line - I'm putting some of their 4.24 gear in my road racks:

4.24DC - Digital Crossover/Signal Processor (http://www.ashly.com/product/d_crossover.htm (http://www.ashly.com/product/d_crossover.htm))

4.24GS - Digital Graphic Equalizer/System Processor (http://www.ashly.com/product/d_graphic.htm (http://www.ashly.com/product/d_graphic.htm))

4.24RD - Digital Graphic Equalizer Remote Control (http://www.ashly.com/product/d_remote.htm (http://www.ashly.com/product/d_remote.htm))

But again, this is in live sound-reinforcement applications. I'll be time-aligning the mains and EQ'ing the four monitor mixes (still using an 1/3 octave analogue for FOH).

Infredible
11-16-2004, 10:55 PM
Here are the curves after a flat EQ in my room. Pretty awful! but I have a really BIG room that doesn't help. see my place. (http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2409&page=1&pp=15&highlight=infredible) I guess I have to do my home work to get the room a little more sound friendly :banghead::biting:
The scale is +/- 16 dB, when the EQ does its work it comes on the RAT at +/- .5 dB from flat.
The sound coming out is a little on the bright side but the low end is much more defined and punchy, good bye mudiness! I'm not an EQ savvy guy now but I think I'm going to learn how to appreciate it. to resume: "I have to play even some more with it" before getting deaf :D

Fred.

right channel

Infredible
11-16-2004, 10:56 PM
left channel

boputnam
11-17-2004, 06:48 AM
"I have to play even some more with it" before getting deaf :D :rotfl:

Thanks, Fred. Interesting.

What does the "white" (non-black) fader signify? Is that a HPF point, or something? :hmm:

Love your crib... :yes:

Infredible
11-17-2004, 01:47 PM
What does the "white" (non-black) fader signify? Is that a HPF point, or something? :hmm:
The "white" dot is just indicating the current active band in edit mode.
What is an HPF point?

Fred.

boputnam
11-17-2004, 02:31 PM
"high pass filter" - it's in about the right place if you were using a system-wide roll-off for whatever reason. I wondered if that was selected somewhere in the GUI (but was not activated), and showed on the faders (both L/R the same).

Infredible
12-28-2004, 02:57 PM
Well I just ditched the 8024 which in the end sounded not that good to me, lots of digital conversion artifacts. It was replaced by their higher end model DEQ 2496 which is the ultimate (read cheap) tweaker toy. With the right length of cable I'm able to sit at my listening position with it and tweak things to my liking. I really like the parametric EQ which is easy to use and gives you a real time audio feedback. There's a room correction mode too.
It's amazing how a room changes the response of your speakers. I highly recommend anyone to consider putting a clean, transparent EQ in their gear loop.
It's like Santa brought me new better speakers.

Fred.

pelly3s
12-28-2004, 04:05 PM
i personally would chose a dbx driverack pa or bss omnidrive or minidrive but the bss stuff is really expensive. the driverack pa is like $499 and it's amazing the driverack studio is a little more money and then they have high end models but they have way more than what is needed for home use.