Will this work?

[dino]

Hello all.
Trying to save some money on cabinets . so I have the opportunity to buy two jbl 4645 cabinets dirt cheap and this is what I hope can work.
Jbl 2245h xover 500hz
Jbl 2440 / 2397 smith horn xover at 500 to 6000khz
Beyma Tpl 150h xover 6000kHz.
The beyma would be mounted right above the 3 ports on the cabinets and the smith horn laying on top of the s peaker. Will this work . thanks

Ps I am not at all a cabinet maker nor know my way around wood. So the question is can these cabinet have veneer installed over the cabs. Thanks

[1audiohack]

Hi Dino;

I think you will need another cone driver inbetween the 2245 and the 2397. They will both play to 500Hz
but neither are going to be at their best.

Since you have absolutely nothing to loose since the horn is going to just sit on the box, give it a go and see what you think.

I understand what you say about not being a wood guy but here's some food for thought:

I haven't looked up the dimensions of the box but maybe you could squeeze a JBL 2123 into the top of the box? If it would fit in the front baffle it would require it's own small internal inclosure. You could likely loose the center port if you needed the space and lower the boxes port tuned frequency all at once.

On the veneer front, you should be able to strip the black vinyl off the box, do come cleanup and finish work and veneer them.

Hope that helps, a little.

Barry.

[dino]

Hi Dino;

I think you will need another cone driver inbetween the 2245 and the 2397. They will both play to 500Hz
but neither are going to be at their best.

Since you have absolutely nothing to loose since the horn is going to just sit on the box, give it a go and see what you think.

I understand what you say about not being a wood guy but here's some food for thought:

I haven't looked up the dimensions of the box but maybe you could squeeze a JBL 2123 into the top of the box? If it would fit in the front baffle it would require it's own small internal inclosure. You could likely loose the center port if you needed the space and lower the boxes port tuned frequency all at once.

On the veneer front, you should be able to strip the black vinyl off the box, do come cleanup and finish work and veneer them.

Hope that helps, a little.

Barry.
Great, thanks it help out a lot. The only question that is still unclear if the Jbl 2245h frequency range is 20hz to 2000 kHz and the Jbl 2440 frequency range is from 500 to above I should be good right. If the xover cut off on the jbl 2245 at 500hz and the Jbl 2440 start at 500hz what am I missing

ps the measurements of the 4645cabs 39.75 height 26.5 width 17.25 depth 8 cubic feet tune to 30hz

[1audiohack]

The issue is that even though the 2245 will make noise up to 2kHz, it just sounds awful when doing it. Their sweet spot is 20-250Hz. It's al down hill after that. I know of no JBL aplication of that driver being used above a crossover point of 290Hz.

It might sound OK and I wiuld encourage you to try it as you are thinking but if you can squeeze a 10" in there, you will find joy!

All the best,
Barry.

[pos]

Dino, if you decide to stick the 10 or 12 incher on top of the existing box, then try to make it the same width as the 4645, otherwise the midbass crossover will be a nightmare to get right because of the different baffle steps that will greatly affect the ~200-300Hz range.

[dino]

The issue is that even though the 2245 will make noise up to 2kHz, it just sounds awful when doing it. Their sweet spot is 20-250Hz. It's al down hill after that. I know of no JBL aplication of that driver being used above a crossover point of 290Hz.

It might sound OK and I wiuld encourage you to try it as you are thinking but if you can squeeze a 10" in there, you will find joy!

All the best,
Barry.
Ok what if a change the 2245 to a 2242h

[dino]

That is not related to the woofer(s), but to the dimensions of the baffle(s) and the frequency of the crossover.
Well I started off hoping for a 2way system than ok 3way now? But diffentlly not a 4way

[pos]

Oh sorry, I thought you were responding to my message about the baffle width...
I have no experience with the 2242H and its midrange performance...
Sorry for the confusion, I deleted my post.

[1audiohack]

Hi dino;

If you have all the parts then give it a go, you have nothing to loose. I have a friend that has a two way system with some immense 36" wide Smith horns he built driven by JBL 2451's. They are crossed in at ≈350-375Hz and at apartment listening levels they really sound pretty good.

I don't have a complete pair of 2397's to try at the moment but who knows? It might work for you.?

If you don't have the horns yet, you could use the much larger JBL 2360 that are usually available for not much over shipping costs. They can be played down to ≈350Hz while still retaining some pattern control.

Sorry to not be able to offer you an opinion that you had hoped for.

Best of luck! Really. :)

Barry.

[dino]

Hi dino;

If you have all the parts then give it a go, you have nothing to loose. I have a friend that has a two way system with some immense 36" wide Smith horns he built driven by JBL 2451's. They are crossed in at ≈350-375Hz and at apartment listening levels they really sound pretty good.

I don't have a complete pair of 2397's to try at the moment but who knows? It might work for you.?

If you don't have the horns yet, you could use the much larger JBL 2360 that are usually available for not much over shipping costs. They can be played down to ≈350Hz while still retaining some pattern control.

Sorry to not be able to offer you an opinion that you had hoped for.

Best of luck! Really. :)

Barry.
Thanks again Mr Barry. Yes I do already have the horns 2397 and 2440. I got nothing to loose I hope it sound fantastic

[Mr. Widget]

Thanks again Mr Barry. Yes I do already have the horns 2397 and 2440. I got nothing to loose I hope it sound fantasticIt may, but it will sound more fantastic if you add a mid bass driver and implement it properly. ;)


Widget

[Lee in Montreal]

Hi Dino

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v668/Lee_Vuong/JBL%20parts%20factory/DSCN2394_zps56463075.jpg

if your goal is to build a 2-way system and integrate a pair of 2245, I think the closest will be a 2.5 way where the 2245s are used as subwoofers from 20 to, say, 50Hz

The main drivers could be 2225 or 2226 up to 500/600Hz and a JBL 2360 from 500/600Hz up to 16KHz. actually, for most musicall programs you won't need sub bass reinforcement (even though it feels quite nice). Then, I am sure you'll be asking what about simply using a 2245 up to 500Hz and then the 2360. Well, the 300-500Hz might be muddy. But hey, this is something I want to experiment myself as my current set-up is 2226 plus 2360 with 2245 sub bass reinforcement.

Don't forget to add to the equation two or three amps and an active digital crossover.

Lee

[dino]

It may, but it will sound more fantastic if you add a mid bass driver and implement it properly. ;)


Widget yes you are right widget I have my 4way huge speakers already. What I was trying to do is get a great sounding speakers with out spending a arm and my first born child for custom build cabinets. I got my 2440 and 2397 with adaptors for 200$. I have a pair of 4645 cabs I got for 149$ I started off with 4617 cabs which I got for 100$ but I was told you can't remove the vinyl off particical board. So I'm hitting a brick wall:banghead:

[dino]

What about the jbl 2235h, the 4430 have a x-over point of 1000kHz:confused:

[Horn Fanatic]

Hello all.
Trying to save some money on cabinets . so I have the opportunity to buy two jbl 4645 cabinets dirt cheap and this is what I hope can work.
Jbl 2245h xover 500hz
Jbl 2440 / 2397 smith horn xover at 500 to 6000khz
Beyma Tpl 150h xover 6000kHz.
The beyma would be mounted right above the 3 ports on the cabinets and the smith horn laying on top of the s peaker. Will this work . thanks

Ps I am not at all a cabinet maker nor know my way around wood. So the question is can these cabinet have veneer installed over the cabs. Thanks

Just curious why you picked 6K for your upper crossover frequency. Standing waves will occur within a 2397 at approximately 4.9K. Is it safe to assume you're using a tweeter? If so, can you cross your tweeter over slightly below that frequency?

Do you actually have 2440 diaphragms installed in the drivers, or are they 2441 diaphragms? The 2440 is the commercial designation for the 375 driver, and the high end response of the 375 sucked.

H.F.

[dino]

Just curious why you picked 6K for your upper crossover frequency. Standing waves will occur within a 2397 at approximately 4.9K. Is it safe to assume you're using a tweeter? If so, can you cross your tweeter over slightly below that frequency?

Do you actually have 2440 diaphragms installed in the drivers, or are they 2441 diaphragms? The 2440 is the commercial designation for the 375 driver, and the high end response of the 375 sucked.

H.F.
Yes. The lowest crossover frequency he can go is 1200

[Horn Fanatic]

Yes. The lowest crossover frequency he can go is 1200

Thanks.

Perhaps I don't have a clear picture. Is this going to be a three-way system? Using two crossover points indicates a three-way system, but I saw no mention of a tweeter.

[dino]

Just curious why you picked 6K for your upper crossover frequency. Standing waves will occur within a 2397 at approximately 4.9K. Is it safe to assume you're using a tweeter? If so, can you cross your tweeter over slightly below that frequency?

Do you actually have 2440 diaphragms installed in the drivers, or are they 2441 diaphragms? The 2440 is the commercial designation for the 375 driver, and the high end response of the 375 sucked.

H.F.
LOL well everyone is titled to their own opinion .

[Horn Fanatic]

LOL well everyone is titled to their own opinion .

What is that supposed to mean? Stating fact is not an opinion.

[dino]

Just curious why you picked 6K for your upper crossover frequency. Standing waves will occur within a 2397 at approximately 4.9K. Is it safe to assume you're using a tweeter? If so, can you cross your tweeter over slightly below that frequency?

Do you actually have 2440 diaphragms installed in the drivers, or are they 2441 diaphragms? The 2440 is the commercial designation for the 375 driver, and the high end response of the 375 sucked.

H.F.
Thanks I just read the graph on the 2397 frequency curves low and high. The tweeter and mid are not the issue the issue is the low frequency driver I can use in a 3way speaker system that will cover the full spectrum frequency range at crossover points between the low and the mid. Does anyone know how high I can crossover the 2235h 500? 800? 1000?

[Horn Fanatic]

Thanks I just read the graph on the 2397 frequency curves low and high. The tweeter and mid are not the issue the issue is the low frequency driver I can use in a 3way speaker system that will cover the full spectrum frequency range at crossover points between the low and the mid. Does anyone know how high I can crossover the 2235h 500? 800? 1000?

First off, I would recommend reviewing which systems JBL used the 2235H in to give you an idea where it was crossed over at. My experience with the 2397 coincides with the fact that the lowest crossover frequency JBL recommended was 800 Hz. The highest crossover frequency JBL recommended for the 2235H is 1K. That means you have a 200 Hz window to play with.

Second, being that the issue of the crossover point between the horn and the tweeter may be of no concern to you, it still doesn't change the fact that standing waves will occur between the parallel panels of the 2397 at approximately 4.9K. It's not my opinion, it's a question of physics. Eliminating standing waves will reduce distortion in that frequency range.

Coincidently, from the 2397 data sheet: "...with only minor lobes appearing above 5kHz"

Why not cross over below 4.9K and rid yourself of a second problem?

[Lee in Montreal]

Thanks I just read the graph on the 2397 frequency curves low and high. The tweeter and mid are not the issue the issue is the low frequency driver I can use in a 3way speaker system that will cover the full spectrum frequency range at crossover points between the low and the mid. Does anyone know how high I can crossover the 2235h 500? 800? 1000?

If you run a 2235, a 2440 on a 2397 and possibly a 2405 on top, then you can use the following crossing frequencies.

800 to 1000Hz

8KHz (if you cross the 2405 at 7KHz it will sound hasher)

Lee

[Lee in Montreal]

Why not cross over below 4.9K and rid yourself of a second problem? Possibly because then it limits the choice of JBL tweeter to a 2402 bullet topping at 15KHz which is not as nice sounding as a 2405 with its sizzling highs extending to 21KHz

JBL 2402 - http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/2402.pdf

JBL 2405 - http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/2405.pdf

If non-JBL components are considered, then a ribbon tweeter can be used. They can be crossed low and they reach high.

http://www.parts-express.com/Search.aspx?keyword=ribbon%20tweeter&sitesearch=true

[1audiohack]

Possibly because then it limits the choice of JBL tweeter to a 2402 bullet topping at 15KHz which is not as nice sounding as a 2405 with its sizzling highs extending to 21KHz

JBL 2402 - http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/2402.pdf

JBL 2405 - http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/2405.pdf

If non-JBL components are considered, then a ribbon tweeter can be used. They can be crossed low and they reach high.

http://www.parts-express.com/Search.aspx?keyword=ribbon%20tweeter&sitesearch=true

It would appear dino has a pair of these: Beyma Tpl 150h

Barry.

[dino]

It would appear dino has a pair of these: Beyma Tpl 150h

Barry.
Wow thanks Barry. I have my answer on the drivers to use to make the system work and save me some cash. I have a set of 5 cubic feet cabinets. I will have to buy the beyma TPL 150h and build a xover but everthing else I have . I will take pic when completed