horizontal or vertical bi amping

[bldozier]

For the 4333a
Could anyone explaine which is preferred here, in these threads
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?6556-JBL-6260-power-amp/page4
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?35835-How-do-I-biamp-my-4333A

I think the posters are referring to horizontal, however from other sites ive read vertical is best
Could anyone explain

[BMWCCA]

The way I understand (and use) it, horizontal bi-amping means one stereo amp (or two mono-blocks) run the low frequency of both the right and left speakers, while another stereo amp runs the upper end of both left and right speakers.

In vertical bi-amping one stereo amp runs both high and low of one side (left) while another two-channel amp runs the other speaker (right).

I use horizontal bi-amping in my 4345 because I can use a more powerful amp on the 18-inch woofer than on the upper frequency drivers. Furthermore I'm "active" bi-amping because I use an electronic crossover between the pre-amp and the power-amps. My choice is to use different power amps from the same manufacturer (Crown PS400 and PS200) because it preserves the tonal balance and offers input attenuation to adjust the relative level in addition to that provided on the electronic crossover.

Many don't see the point of using the same amp for both high and low as in vertical bi-amping because perhaps the main point is to use a larger amp on the low-end and not waste power or money on the high end if not needed. It is also arguable that this could reduce the noise-floor.

The only advantage I've seen claimed for vertical is the amps can be right next to the speakers but that requires long (and balanced) cable runs. My speaker-cable runs are less than 10-feet and the amps are racked with the pre-amp, source, and electronic crossover making cable runs easier for me and allowing the proper amp for the job, in my case.

The point is moot is you're not actively bi-amping with an electronic crossover since you'll otherwise be sending all frequencies through both amps and letting the passive networks do the rest.

I didn't really find any relationship to your links and the question, though I have to admit I scanned the threads rather quickly. You probably understand the theory at least as well as I do so perhaps I misunderstood your question, too?

[1audiohack]

Have the best of both worlds, go vertical without wasted power on top. Just buy a pair of Crown Macro-Tech 24X6 or even better a pair of 36X12's.

24X6 Channel 1 520W into 8 Ohm.
24X6 Channel 2 225W into 8 Ohm.

36X12 Channel 1 1,120Winto 8 Ohm.
36X12 Channel 2 310W into 8 Ohm

Both have input sensitivity selectable to .775V so you can drive them with home gear.

Barry.

[BMWCCA]

Just buy a pair of Crown Macro-Tech 24X6 or even better a pair of 36X12's.

Love working with the Macro Techs in the road system. They're built like tanks but damn heavy, cost what they're worth, and have really loud fans in a home environment. If you used one of the current Crown XLS you shouldn't even need an external crossover. :dont-know:

[1audiohack]

My little guy with his tongue sticking out :p didn't make it on the post.

For sure those amps aren't for everybody and the fan noise is an issue. There are quieter fans that will cool these in home use conditions but they are not inaudible.

They are also fairly inexpensive as far as the Macro line goes. No one seems to really want them.

On to a more serious page, nearly all of my stuff is horizontally multi amped. I decide how loud I want them to play and select a voltage source calculated against each drivers sensitivity and stack'em up. Most of this gear will make 125dB SPL at 1M at rated power and since I never push over 115dB SPL driver rated power usually gets the job donewith about 10dB SPL of head room.

An example, 07X/240X ring radiators are rated at 40W and have an average of 12 Ohm impedance so a 22V amp is reqired to run them as hard as I ever run them without a ton of excess gain / noise.

When I am pushing for all I can get, I go full dual mono including DSP, full vertical.

I think I have gone way past what we are talking about here though. Where were we?

Barry.

[BMWCCA]

They are also fairly inexpensive as far as the Macro line goes. No one seems to really want them.
I see them reselling very strongly, though they have dropped about by half in the past ten years. Nearly any 2-channel version is over $600 and they seem to go up in price as much as they go up in power. The 24x6 is one of the cheaper ones. The only people that don't want the Macro Techs are the roadies who have to schlep the road cases. Six of those in one box is a lot to maneuver. They seem to go where they want on a truck ramp going down and beat you up going back up!

[bldozier]

Youtube channel,
For starters the distance my cables are routed is an excess of the quoted distance, I can swin just not that far. How could a difference be made if the distnace from signal to signal is an excess of 10 feet. I see this as traffice for speakers,

In my environment im thinking about headroom only, as apt complexes are too close for comfort, anyway, two spec 4 amps are what I had in store.

As stated from reading and rasing my hand, vertical was better for load, I understood an amp handling the load of one cabinet balanced, without any vanity. The spec is a dual mono, whereas vertical my ht and lf loads wouldn't be as balanced since the load is be carried different.

Please correct my ignorance.

[1audiohack]

Hi;

These are pretty efficient speakers and shouldn't need a ton of power in any event.

This really will work either way, heres why. A 35 Volt amp is 153 Watts driven into the 8 Ohm load that is the woofer and that same 35 Volt amp will drive 75 Watts into the 16 Ohm load that the compression driver will present so, get a matched pair of amps and go vertical if you want to keep cross talk to a minimum and park the amps by the speakers or horizontal if you want to isolate the high frequency section from what ever the low frequency demands do to the LF amp and keep the amps central.

Either way gives you twice power headroom for dynamics.

Me? I would go vertical, but that's just me.

Barry.

[Lee in Montreal]

I run vertical. For the simple reason that mids and high require very little power on the right channel, allowing the bass channel (left) to use all the headroom it needs. Also, it allows to install the amps near the cabinets and greatly reduce the length of speaker wires.

[BMWCCA]

Also, it allows to install the amps near the cabinets and greatly reduce the length of speaker wires.
Umm, but of course it increases the length of the line-level wires. So which is more detrimental, long speaker wires or long line-level wires, assuming unbalanced output?

I've always assumed the lower-powered amps would have a noise-level advantage especially on high-frequency drivers. Of course a lot depends on the power range and each amp. :dont-know:

[Lee in Montreal]

Resistance in the (long) speaker wires will affect the amplfier's damping factor AFAIK. In my system I have very few RCA connectors. I run mostly XLR balanced length of wires.

[BMWCCA]

Resistance in the (long) speaker wires will affect the amplfier's damping factor AFAIK. In my system I have very few RCA connectors. I run mostly XLR balanced length of wires.
I can run XLR between my Ashly crossover and my Crown PS-series amps (with the MOD-X adapters I have), but my run to the speakers is less than ten-feet and the Crowns have plenty of damping factor. I like the amps in a rack. Don't need more stuff on the floor and doubt I'd notice any benefit! I'll stay with horizontal but thanks for the explanation.

[snip3r]

The way I understand (and use) it, horizontal bi-amping means one stereo amp (or two mono-blocks) run the low frequency of both the right and left speakers, while another stereo amp runs the upper end of both left and right speakers.

In vertical bi-amping one stereo amp runs both high and low of one side (left) while another two-channel amp runs the other speaker (right).

I use horizontal bi-amping in my 4345 because I can use a more powerful amp on the 18-inch woofer than on the upper frequency drivers. Furthermore I'm "active" bi-amping because I use an electronic crossover between the pre-amp and the power-amps. My choice is to use different power amps from the same manufacturer (Crown PS400 and PS200) because it preserves the tonal balance and offers input attenuation to adjust the relative level in addition to that provided on the electronic crossover.

Many don't see the point of using the same amp for both high and low as in vertical bi-amping because perhaps the main point is to use a larger amp on the low-end and not waste power or money on the high end if not needed. It is also arguable that this could reduce the noise-floor.

The only advantage I've seen claimed for vertical is the amps can be right next to the speakers but that requires long (and balanced) cable runs. My speaker-cable runs are less than 10-feet and the amps are racked with the pre-amp, source, and electronic crossover making cable runs easier for me and allowing the proper amp for the job, in my case.

The point is moot is you're not actively bi-amping with an electronic crossover since you'll otherwise be sending all frequencies through both amps and letting the passive networks do the rest.

I didn't really find any relationship to your links and the question, though I have to admit I scanned the threads rather quickly. You probably understand the theory at least as well as I do so perhaps I misunderstood your question, too?

I have a 4429, I'm looking for a Crown XLS 2002 ( I heard this is the latest ? ) and I currently have a 2a3 with me.
Should I go for horizontal bi-amping or just a Crown?
And my source is a DAC with digital pre , true balance. Will this be OK with the CROWN to do fully balanced?
http://www.productwiki.com/geek-pulse/