044ti vs 066 tweeter in 4313b

[aj_chicago]

Newbee here. I recently found a pair of jbl 4313b studio monitors for cheeeeeeeeeap! However, (there's always a however) both 066 tweeter domes are pushed in. Both meter a little over 2 ohms resistance, but at least not infinity! That is somewhat less than the other drivers, (LE10-H's and LE5-9's were 4+ ohms). Does a 2+ ohm meter reading sound OK for the 066's? I have not hooked up the speakers to the system yet due to "issues".... woofers in process of refoaming (one almost down, one to go), had to repair the cone on one of the midranges. I'm praying. If the 044's don't work I was wondering if they can be directly replaced with 044ti's (with no mods)? They look like they might with the three mounting screws. I know there are those who think this would be a sin, but there are also those who prefer the sound of the 044s vs 066s and the 066s are not very available, especially on a budget. I doubt my ear could tell a difference.

[BMWCCA]

Newbee here. I recently found a pair of jbl 4313b studio monitors for cheeeeeeeeeap! However, (there's always a however) both 044 tweeter domes are pushed in. Both meter a little over 2 ohms resistance, but at least not infinity! That is somewhat less than the other drivers, (LE10-H's and LE5-9's were 4+ ohms). Does a 2+ ohm meter reading sound OK for the 066's? I have not hooked up the speakers to the system yet due to "issues".... woofers in process of refoaming (one almost down, one to go), had to repair the cone on one of the midranges. I'm praying. If the 044's don't work I was wondering if they can be directly replaced with 044ti's (with no mods)? They look like they might with the three mounting screws. I know there are those who think this would be a sin, but there are also those who prefer the sound of the 044s vs 066s and the 066s are not very available, especially on a budget. I doubt my ear could tell a difference.I'm confused. First you say your 044 domes are pushed in and then you ask about 066 DCR. Which do you have? :dont-know:

[aj_chicago]

I'm confused. First you say your 044 domes are pushed in and then you ask about 066 DCR. Which do you have? :dont-know:

I sure did. Slip of the brain. The 066's that came in the 4313's are pushed in and I want to know if they are "no mod"-replaceable by 044ti's. I also, somehow, I guess I did not check the right spot to follow this thread cuz I just had to search for it after wondering if anyone had responded... no email. I can't find anywhere to state/check a box to say to follow this. Isn't it a default to follow your own posts and get email notification? Thanks.

NEWS: I did find the Thread Subscription Default box and changed it from the default "not to subscribe." I wonder if that will take effect for this thread?

[Aaron]

The biggest roadblock is the size difference: the 044 variants require a larger hole.
I have a set of L96s with 4313B crossovers in them & they sound about as good as anything I've heard.

[aj_chicago]

All components seem to work fine on the first one. :bouncy: Waiting for glue to dry on the other midrange (coffee filter) repair and other woofer surround. Sounds good on low volume! :) Acid test in the morning!

[aj_chicago]

The biggest roadblock is the size difference: the 044 variants require a larger hole.
I have a set of L96s with 4313B crossovers in them & they sound about as good as anything I've heard.

Thanks, Aaron. That's what I needed to know. Could see the 044s slid in the hole and mounted with three screws just like the 066s, but could not tell the size of hole or space between screws. Thanks, again. Hope the other tweeter works as good as the first! :bouncy: .... and the midrange repair. :dont-know:

Boy, the dirt sure shows in the pics! Got some cleaning up to do. These were stored in a filthy house for MANY YEARS before I rescued them. I mean, when I walked in I did not want to touch ANYTHING! Just wanted to get 'em and get outa there! Screens are in good shape, too!

[aj_chicago]

Anyone ever matched the blue paint on these with something available? Have a few paint chips I'd like to fix.

[macaroonie]

Anyone ever matched the blue paint on these with something available? Have a few paint chips I'd like to fix.

The color code that is a very close match is RAL5007 . It seems that Sherwin Williams are unable to mix this so can them.

Otherwise any competent color mixer should be able to run up that color for you. It might need a little tweaking to match the existing paint which is now 40 years old. Better to paint the whole front IMO.

[Aaron]

If your midrange repair doesn't sound right, I would think about getting a pair of LE5-10s. They would complete the L96 driver complement assuming you use the non ti version of the 044. I would recommend going this route just because I know it works and it was recommended to me by member 4313B...funny how that works out eh?

As for enlarging the tweeter hole, I'd lay down a 1/2" thick board with a 5.5" hole already cut in it over the tweeter opening (to clear the grill pegs) and use a router & rabbeting kit like the one at the bottom of this link:

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/bit_rabbet.html

[macaroonie]

Another option for your HF is to drop in a pair of 2405's and alter the X/O to match what's going on in the 4315.
Your mid with the repair will bug you of course , easy enough to find tidy replacements.

[aj_chicago]

If your midrange repair doesn't sound right, I would think about getting a pair of LE5-10s. They would complete the L96 driver complement assuming you use the non ti version of the 044. I would recommend going this route just because I know it works and it was recommended to me by member 4313B...funny how that works out eh?

As for enlarging the tweeter hole, I'd lay down a 1/2" thick board with a 5.5" hole already cut in it over the tweeter opening (to clear the grill pegs) and use a router & rabbeting kit like the one at the bottom of this link:

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/bit_rabbet.html

That sounds like work with tools I no linger have, but wish I still did. Was looking for a 'drop-in' alternative. Thanks.

[aj_chicago]

The midrange repair was a good one! I have never done that before, but coffee filter paper does the trick and when you saturate it with glue and spread it on and smooth it out it takes on the form of the cone beneath right down to the little paper dimples! It was pretty amazing. It did not all dry clear and there are white patches. I need to touch it up with a fine mist of flat black spray paint and I think it will be hard to see the repair. The problem is... I know it's there. Sooner or later I will probably look to replace them. And for the purists... I know.... the glue changes the stiffness of the cone and "compromises" the sound and still sounds great! Lol.

I played them at some volume this morning. Couldn't wait. Haven't played with the l-pad dials much, just turned them to zero/flat. Everything sounds really good, repaired cone, pushed in tweeter domes, and all! I have a pair of Smaller Advents (that I love) to compare to. Will have to play for a while with things and see what I think, but with the prejudice of a resurrection job.... these sound great now! Old Englished the cabinets and did find a pull in one grill that I pulled to the inside. I did not realize that that material is DARK BLUE! I've always had a problem telling the difference, but with sunshine on them I could see the grills were blue, too. So far, so good! :applaud:

[aj_chicago]

Another option for your HF is to drop in a pair of 2405's and alter the X/O to match what's going on in the 4315.
Your mid with the repair will bug you of course , easy enough to find tidy replacements.

I'm pretty happy with the repair, but ya.... it still bothers me knowing it's there.

[BMWCCA]

Have you tried taking the tweeter apart and pushing the dome out from behind? There's a thread on it there somewhere. I'd be happy to look for it but you seem to have far more spare time than I have. :thmbsup:

[aj_chicago]

Have you tried taking the tweeter apart and pushing the dome out from behind? There's a thread on it there somewhere. I'd be happy to look for it but you seem to have far more spare time than I have. :thmbsup:

Most of my time is spare. :D Well I saw some discussion on that. Not sure if it was the thread you are remembering. Thing is, opening mine up would take drilling out rivets.... no screws. That is a task I will pass on. I also saw some discussion on "being very careful" or damage may occur. And another post that referred to the process and ended "cross you fingers that it still works." Someone was able to build a suction device with a large syringe attached to a suction cup which would be held over the cavity with the dome in it. Ingenious! I could not find a suction cup or syringe at Home Depot. I'm still thinking about it. I have an idea that I laugh at when I think of, but it just might work! It takes a device that I don't have and whose discussion might get censored out. :o: I'm also thinking about trying the vacuum at the car wash. My lady came up with that one. Hey, where you goin'? Oh, I'm goin' to suck tweeter domes out at the car wash. :lol_fit:

[SEAWOLF97]

here's a thread that shows the 3 allens to open a 066 (post 24)

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?29325-044Ti-questions-Help-needed&p=297332&viewfull=1#post297332

not very hard to smooth out from the back

[aj_chicago]

here's a thread that shows the 3 allens to open a 066 (post 24)

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?29325-044Ti-questions-Help-needed&p=297332&viewfull=1#post297332

not very hard to smooth out from the back

Thanks for taking the time to resurrect that link! It's a good one. Learned a lot. I didn't know there was foam under the dome or hex head screws. Now I am tempted to open em up. Also tempted to leave them alone....

[SEAWOLF97]

Thanks for taking the time to resurrect that link! It's a good one. Learned a lot. I didn't know there was foam under the dome or hex head screws. Now I am tempted to open em up. Also tempted to leave them alone....

AFAIR , the 066 just lifts out ,, as opposed to fighting the 044Ti's double sided super stickum tape.

[aj_chicago]

AFAIR , the 066 just lifts out ,, as opposed to fighting the 044Ti's double sided super stickum tape.

OK. That does it! Opening them up. But I wish I could first find some spongy foam rubber to replace the old stuff under the dome. I know I've had some around here. Usually, stuff like that get thrown out just before I need it. :mad:

[SEAWOLF97]

OK. That does it! Opening them up. But I wish I could first find some spongy foam rubber to replace the old stuff under the dome. I know I've had some around here. Usually, stuff like that get thrown out just before I need it. :mad:

for some reason (most likely old age) , I don't remember any foam at all in the 066.

[kelossus]

for some reason (most likely old age) , I don't remember any foam at all in the 066.

Have taken apart many 066's and have never seen any foam underneath either.

If you got them cheap enough and are willing to spend money on them I would keep an eye out on Ebay for another set of Tweeters. They dont come up often but you can get a bargain if you check every now and again. I even saw some 066 Diaphragms on there a month ago.

Being that damaged the sound would be suffering. Fantastic speakers by the way, don't change the LE5-9's for the LE5-10's.

[aj_chicago]

Have taken apart many 066's and have never seen any foam underneath either.

If you got them cheap enough and are willing to spend money on them I would keep an eye out on Ebay for another set of Tweeters. They dont come up often but you can get a bargain if you check every now and again. I even saw some 066 Diaphragms on there a month ago.

Being that damaged the sound would be suffering. Fantastic speakers by the way, don't change the LE5-9's for the LE5-10's.

Well, if you are referring to the LE5-9, I don't know how damaged it is other than cosmetic. My ears don't hear "damage." How could one tell? Can you isolate them so that sound only comes through the LE5-9's? If I could do that I could compare one to the other. I think I read somewhere that with out the other components things change. Is is safe to run speaker wire directly to them, bypassing the crossovers? Sure would like to hear them on their own.

[aj_chicago]

here's a thread that shows the 3 allens to open a 066 (post 24)

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?29325-044Ti-questions-Help-needed&p=297332&viewfull=1#post297332

not very hard to smooth out from the back


Tweeters: I tried a car wash vacuum to suck the domes out, but no. These 066's (like others I have read about) do not have "allen" head screws. They are "rivets". Since I was not going to drill I could not open them. Instead, I applied silicone caulk with a string embedded in it. Now that I did this, I wouldn't do it again. It worked, for the most part, and it pulled out the larger dimples, but left smaller ones. I then tried to use the point of a pushpin to lift them out. This worked on dimples, too. However, I only noticed afterward that wherever the pushpin point lifted it lifted a little "pimple" on the surface. Now instead of dimples I have dimples and pimples. Dang it! :banghead: I wish there were a way to cosmetically fix this. The tweeters sound FINE! :idea: Could I get away with applying a second dust cap over the damaged ones?

Woofers: I refoamed the bass drivers. These are in good shape and sound great! I noticed in a Simply Speakers recone video that they apply glue to the outside foam surface to "seal" it from air escape. When I questioned they said the glue stayed flexible and was compliant. I have a difficult time with this. I have learned (right or wrong) to keep glue only on the edge that contacts the cone and the driver frame. What say the experts here? Glue on all of the outside surface of the foam to seal, or not? That brings up a similar question. I noticed that there is space around the tweeters and mids and I do feel airflow around them. Were there gaskets/o-rings that originally filled these gaps?

Mids: I dusted the repaired mid with a coat of flat black. It looks much better. I won't do the same to the "good" one in hopes of finding a cheap replacement. Saw a re-cone kit on ebay from Simply Speakers for $45, but that is minus the $55 (correction: they have a smaller glue kit for $20) worth of glue you need! :( Add my labor and I think a replacement looks better! I hooked both up individually in the cabinets (with crossovers) without the other components, and again directly to the speaker cables (no crossovers) and I cannot hear any difference. They still sound good.

Cabinets: The cabinets need work. I filled the large chips along the edge and tried a paint pen, but it didn't match (as you can see). $5 wasted. I have not been able to find a color match for the blue. I have brought home three different ones and shopped three different hardware stores to no avail. I almost decided on a darker blue to match the grilles, but I just can't do it. I think I will go to home depot and get some likely color samples, see which is closest, and see if they can mix me a quart, and paint them by hand. I have read veneer refinishing tips with various products and think I will just clean off the old oil finish, lightly sand some top scratches out, and finish with a coat or two of hand rubbed, semi-gloss Minwax Tung Oil. I have it on hand and I have used it on several things that I have been happy with. If anyone thinks this is a "sin" let me know.

Crossovers: I am leaving "well enough" alone.

Progress pics attached. Before pic with one of the crunched tweeter domes (that tape ripped the aluminum coating off of) at bottom.

[SEAWOLF97]

These 066's (like others I have read about) do not have "allen" head screws. They are "rivets".

More correctly should have been called "torx" ? that's how every one that I have seen
is assembled.

[aj_chicago]

More correctly should have been called "torx" ? that's how every one that I have seen
is assembled.

I meant to include pics, but had problems with something and forgot them. These are different from your pics. Did you have to remove the glued on gasket to see them? Maybe they added the gasket?

[4343]

I meant to include pics, but had problems with something and forgot them. These are different from your pics. Did you have to remove the glued on gasket to see them? Maybe they added the gasket? That is definitely where the screws are, under the gasket. What you see on the back is actually the threads sticking out just a tad. They are American Customary Allen head machine screws, commonly called Inch sizes, not metric.

[aj_chicago]

That is definitely where the screws are, under the gasket. What you see on the back is actually the threads sticking out just a tad. They are American Customary Allen head machine screws, commonly called Inch sizes, not metric.

I was afraid of that. I did not read or see that fact anywhere (and I read a lot), and if I did it didn't sink in. Oh well, lesson learned.