My new jbl 4365

[Mctwins]

Hallo!

I think I have experienced for the first time in my life a heart attack!!!!

Look at this......damn freight company :banghead:. The speaker is OK without any damage and is sounding fine as well.

[Mctwins]

Here are some better pictures:)

[Mctwins]

Some close up pic.....

[Mctwins]

Settings for the Crown, changed only the LevelMax Limiters.....

[Mctwins]

Well, I have to say that these speakers ROCK's , great detail in voices and the bass has a good grip and sounds firm and tight. The mid bass, specially the snaredrum and perccusion sounds tight as well. I love the pluck sound. It really hits you even on low volume level. I have not yet pushed them with high volume levels, soon I will, maybe this evening.

Too me, I still really don't understand what this means "Break In" time :dont-know:, they sound good allready, if I had these for years.

One thing is for sure, they are heavy to be moved around by one person. this is the only complaint I have with these speakers.

Funkydelala:bouncy:

[Challenger604]

Congrats! Very nice!

[4313B]

Hallo!

I think I have experienced for the first time in my life a heart attack!!!!

Look at this......damn freight company :banghead:. The speaker is OK without any damage and is sounding fine as well.Good grief!!!

I'm glad the loudspeakers were ok. :yes:

[Mctwins]

Congrats! Very nice!

Thanks:)

[Mctwins]

Good grief!!!

I'm glad the loudspeakers were ok. :yes:

Yeah, me too. :)

[Mctwins]

The speakers position is not gonna be as shown in the pictures. Going further back towards the backwall. Didn't had the time to adjust it yesterday. Was very keen to see if they was working due to the damaged box.

Maybe tomorrow or some other day.

[Mr. Widget]

The speakers position is not gonna be as shown in the pictures. Going further back towards the backwall. Didn't had the time to adjust it yesterday. Was very keen to see if they was working due to the damaged box.

Maybe tomorrow or some other day.You may find you prefer the sound of the bass with the speakers further forward as you have them. I usually do. On the other hand you might prefer the pumped up bass when you push the speakers closer to the wall.


Widget

[LowPhreak]

Too me, I still really don't understand what this means "Break In" time :dont-know:, they sound good allready, if I had these for years.



Grats on some really nice loudspeakers. :applaud:

Break-in I'd say is not only the woofer resonance frequency that will lower a bit to its nominal after use, but also to an extent the mid/tweet and X-O components need burn-in. Would not be surprised if in comparison the lower end now might sound a bit one-notey and mid/highs possibly a tad shrill or closed in to how they should flesh out later. I had 2 pairs of 580's that did and my current 590's did, took about 2 weeks to really sound right. Other brand new speakers I've had as well, some less or more noticeable.

No, I don't think it's just the ear becoming more familiar with the sound over time, or "getting used to" the sound.

For instance, I can tell you that the Martin Logan CLS IIa sound completely awful when they're new. Other people that heard them at the time said the same thing...'geez, they don't sound very good', and so on. But they soon shaped up.

You and audiohack are now officially on the top of my "hate" list of LH'ers. :nanana: ;)

Have fun!

[Mctwins]

You may find you prefer the sound of the bass with the speakers further forward as you have them. I usually do. On the other hand you might prefer the pumped up bass when you push the speakers closer to the wall.


Widget

Yes, I understand. I have, or will have the same position where the PRX600 series was standing. I have allready tuned those Varitunes Helmhotlz resonators and it give the best result. The speakers is the minor problem. I know how this room behaves, acoustically. Take a look here....https://www.gearslutz.com/board/8325451-post114.html.

Maybe little inches there or inches here...not so trivial. I have pushed the speakers little bit towards the back wall, sounds better allready.:)

[Mctwins]

Grats on some really nice loudspeakers. :applaud:

Break-in I'd say is not only the woofer resonance frequency that will lower a bit to its nominal after use, but also to an extent the mid/tweet and X-O components need burn-in. Would not be surprised if in comparison the lower end now might sound a bit one-notey and mid/highs possibly a tad shrill or closed in to how they should flesh out later. I had 2 pairs of 580's that did and my current 590's did, took about 2 weeks to really sound right. Other brand new speakers I've had as well, some less or more noticeable.

No, I don't think it's just the ear becoming more familiar with the sound over time, or "getting used to" the sound.

For instance, I can tell you that the Martin Logan CLS IIa sound completely awful when they're new. Other people that heard them at the time said the same thing...'geez, they don't sound very good', and so on. But they soon shaped up.

You and audiohack are now officially on the top of my "hate" list of LH'ers. :nanana: ;)

Have fun!

Thanks!

Maybe you are right here but the problem is for me is that I will forgett how it was sounding from the begining. But of course, it is better that the speakers sounds better and better instead of the other way around.

Or, I think, it is due too my good room acoustics that the speakers sounds nice:)

[Mctwins]

Break-in I'd say is not only the woofer resonance frequency that will lower a bit to its nominal after use, but also to an extent the mid/tweet and X-O components need burn-in. Would not be surprised if in comparison the lower end now might sound a bit one-notey and mid/highs possibly a tad shrill or closed in to how they should flesh out later.



If you look at post 4, one can see that load impedance is around 10 ohms. The right coner of the screen where is say's "Amplifier settings". Notice that the picture is not so good but download it your computer so you can see it a little better.

We have this as a reference and we can see later on if the impedance goes down to it's nominal level, 8ohm

Amplifier settings, Average IMP. On the screen that says "Continuous"

[Ed Zeppeli]

Those are beauts! What are the little gaffers pushed behind them? Little brothers?

[Bobecca]

I can only confirm that these speakers sounds really great.

A pair of fine speakers indeed.

And I know how heavy they are, I helped Mctwins to get them in the house.
Luckily they were all OK in regards to the shipping damage.

I love them;)

[Mr. Widget]

I can only confirm that these speakers sounds really great.

A pair of fine speakers indeed.

And I know how heavy they are, I helped Mctwins to get them in the house.
Luckily they were all OK in regards to the shipping damage.

I love them;)They are not as bad as the DD66000/67000s to move around, but for their size they are surprisingly heavy... and thank goodness the packaging is ample to allow for that level of abuse!

They certaily do show us that GT and the team know how to get great sound out from their great drivers. I do wish they were willing to go with real walnut veneer though. That vertical grained manufactured veneer is not my favorite.


Widget

[LowPhreak]

I DL'ed and expanded, but the pic is too low-rez to see the values. I'll take your word though. :)

I'd be surprised if they didn't drop Ω a bit after sufficient time. Since you have that very handy interface, it'll be interesting if you keep us posted.

I'm sure your acoustic treatments help a fair amount too. If they were mine, I'd run FM interstation noise through them continuously when I wasn't home, and when sleeping (with the door shut, ofc!).

[LowPhreak]

I don't envy any of you humping these beasts around, or the Everests, etc. even worse. Something about, 'we must suffer for our art...', right? haha

:banghead:

Yeah that veneer. One of the first things I thought...well, they're not Avalons or Legacies... But then if I had the dosh for them in the first place, I might re-veneer them (is that a word?) if I thought they were keepers.

[Mctwins]

Maybe this is better. We can have this as a reference. Volume level on my pre at 60%

The numbers varys from 10-11 ohms, goes up and down.

[Mctwins]

Those are beauts! What are the little gaffers pushed behind them? Little brothers?

The little brother will rest for awhile, I will add a Crown XLS drivecore model 1502 or 2002 later on. Will be availible in July.

[LowPhreak]

Ok better. Well my money is on 8-9Ω when they decide to settle down.

[1audiohack]

I am glad you got them and they are OK. I would have had some kind of attack had mine shown up that way!

I am also glad that they sound good to you. I think as dynamic and live as they are they could make a reflective room scream.

I am listening to mine right now and LOVING THEM!

On the break-in thing, I don't perceive any change in mine. Like you I haven't throttled them up hard yet.

Party on! :)

Barry.

[Dave_72]

Congrats! And happy listening. As far as break-in, as the resident ocd audiophile here, I believe in it. My S4700s sounded subdued and flat right out of the box. It's taken quite a long time for them to "open up" in the midrange and treble. The bass is less ripe and deeper as well.

[Valentin]

Yes, I understand. I have, or will have the same position where the PRX600 series was standing. I have allready tuned those Varitunes Helmhotlz resonators and it give the best result. The speakers is the minor problem. I know how this room behaves, acoustically. Take a look here....https://www.gearslutz.com/board/8325451-post114.html.

Maybe little inches there or inches here...not so trivial. I have pushed the speakers little bit towards the back wall, sounds better allready.:)

and that is with the PRX

the 4365 will be much smoother

[bubbleboy76]

Congrats!
Do you have the best sounding system in the family now? I know your brother has some things :)

[Mctwins]

Hallo!

Thanks everyone for the congrat's

It sounds better and better as the day's go by with the 4365.:bouncy:

But, I still favor my brother's system. Those Cinema Screen Arrays is nothing to be fooled around with. The dynamics and the SPL level of this system is one of a kind. One can play really loud without the system have the tedency to break up at any sound level. One schould be vary careful when playing loud so the ear dosen't break.

But, I have to say that the Crown I use with the 4365 is a good and great combo.:applaud:

[Mctwins]

Hallo!

I have been listening all evening today and for some reason it sounds better today:dont-know:. Maybe it is because I am a happy man.:D

[hsosdrum]

Grats on some really nice loudspeakers. :applaud:


For instance, I can tell you that the Martin Logan CLS IIa sound completely awful when they're new. Other people that heard them at the time said the same thing...'geez, they don't sound very good', and so on. But they soon shaped up.




Electrostatics are notorious for changing significantly as the diaphragm stretches from use. Dynamic speakers much, much less so. I suspect that most of the improvements we perceive as we continue to listen to new speakers is due to our brains learning how to properly decode what they're hearing from the new source (what we commonly call "getting used to the new speakers").

[4313B]

Electrostatics are notorious for changing significantly as the diaphragm stretches from use. Dynamic speakers much, much less so. I suspect that most of the improvements we perceive as we continue to listen to new speakers is due to our brains learning how to properly decode what they're hearing from the new source (what we commonly call "getting used to the new speakers").I've heard tales of some people "getting used to" the sound of the L100. I never could get a pair of them to "break in" properly.

[Dave_72]

Electrostatics are notorious for changing significantly as the diaphragm stretches from use. Dynamic speakers much, much less so. I suspect that most of the improvements we perceive as we continue to listen to new speakers is due to our brains learning how to properly decode what they're hearing from the new source (what we commonly call "getting used to the new speakers").

Ok, granted, what do you say if you hook up the old pair and new pair of the same model and compare them side by side. And the new pair still sucks.

It's happened before and it'll happen again. I'm not saying what you said is bogus, however there has to be something other than "getting used to the new sound."

[hsosdrum]

Ok, granted, what do you say if you hook up the old pair and new pair of the same model and compare them side by side. And the new pair still sucks.

It's happened before and it'll happen again. I'm not saying what you said is bogus, however there has to be something other than "getting used to the new sound."

I was only referring to sonic changes commonly attributed to a "speaker break-in" period. If you compare a brand-new pair of Martin-Logans with a pair that has been used for months you'll hear a significant difference between them. If you compare a brand-new pair of 4365s with a pair that's been used for months they'll sound much more alike than the two pairs of electrostatics.

Now, you may not like either a brand-new or broken-in example of a particular speaker, but that's a different phenomenon. As I said in another thread, different people are satisfied by different speakers. My personal hell would be to have to spend eternity listening to music on a pair of L100s. However, ultimately not liking a given speaker does not prevent someone from learning how it "processes" the music. For example, I own a pair of JBL 4312Es (got 'em for a ridiculously good price when I worked at Harman and just couldn't pass them up) and although I don't care for how they present the music, I'm familiar enough with them to be able to listen to music that I've recorded through them and recognize which anomalies I'm hearing are caused by the speakers, and which are inherent in the recording I've made. That makes them a tool (one of many) that I use to help make my recordings sound better on a wider variety of playback systems.

[Dave_72]

[QUOTE=hsosdrum;374722 If you compare a brand-new pair of 4365s with a pair that's been used for months they'll sound much more alike than the two pairs of electrostatics.[/QUOTE]

Probably, but the differences will be there, subtle as they might be. Is it just merely a matter of taste? Yes, that plays a role, but if the used speakers sound better, then that's cause to think that some break in happened. Of course you can go the full objectivist route and do measurements on both pairs and call me a friggin' nut job. You also as an objectivst, have no problem driving $20k speakers with a $150 receiver...:applaud::rotfl:

[LowPhreak]

Electrostatics are notorious for changing significantly as the diaphragm stretches from use. Dynamic speakers much, much less so. I suspect that most of the improvements we perceive as we continue to listen to new speakers is due to our brains learning how to properly decode what they're hearing from the new source (what we commonly call "getting used to the new speakers").


Well I can say this as just the most recent example I've seen, FWIW:

A year ago I ordered Studio 580's but one cab had defects. Took a couple weeks to get replacements, meanwhile the first pair was played almost 24/7. They sounded as I described earlier - somewhat one-notey in the lows without the extension or bloom they should have had, the rest a bit closed in or dry and it seemed the inherent treble rise around 9-10k was too pronounced. For a while I despaired to keep 580's if they were going to sound like that.

They did start to shape up though, and when the second pair came I dreaded to break it in but my luck - the second pair was defective on the cabs like the first. It was clearly a manufacturing issue, not from shipping (dents on the rear corners halfway up the side of the cabs), but I placed the 2nd pair exactly in the spots that the 1st pair were (I'm a stickler for positioning, everything is measured to the room dimensions), and heard what I heard.

The 2nd pair had the sound of the 1st pair out of the box. There was no mistaking that break in had occurred on the 1st pair. Extension was lower into the 30's with proper bloom, better transients and definition, and the treble rise was still there but not as noticeable. The thing I noticed most was the "hard" sound or annoying restriction had returned with the 2nd pair, the 1st pair was much less fatiguing, a more "relaxed" or ease of presentation.

Called Harman HQ in CT and rattled the chain, eventually got to Chris Smith in Northridge who made a good offer on cherry 590's and I sent both pair of 580's back. By some miracle the 590's arrived unharmed. Again, they had a similar new or "raw" sound which did improve after a few weeks run-in like both pair of 580's did. What I heard may or may not happen to the same degree with other speaker models, but IMHO it did occur with these.

"Who you gonna believe - me or your own lying ears?" ;) Longish story, but I tend to believe my own lying ears. I'd like to have had the interface that Mctwins and others here do, to see if it could have been measured and a possible correlation could've been made.

I'm leaving the building now. I sense a :flamer: coming on...


:D

[hsosdrum]

You also as an objectivst, have no problem driving $20k speakers with a $150 receiver...:applaud::rotfl:

I'm not exactly sure what you mean here, but if I had a pair of $20k speakers (M2s! I wish...) I would have no problem driving them with whatever made them sound good. (With M2s my first try would be the recommended Crowns.) Whether or not a $150 receiver would get the best performance from a $20k speaker is a different question, having to do with the wisest way to allocate a total system budget to achieve the best overall system performance. I can't imagine a situation where driving $20k speakers with a $150 receiver would be the way spending $20,150 would yield the best possible audio performance, but you never know till you try...

[Dave_72]

I'm not exactly sure what you mean here, but if I had a pair of $20k speakers (M2s! I wish...) I would have no problem driving them with whatever made them sound good. (With M2s my first try would be the recommended Crowns.) Whether or not a $150 receiver would get the best performance from a $20k speaker is a different question, having to do with the wisest way to allocate a total system budget to achieve the best overall system performance. I can't imagine a situation where driving $20k speakers with a $150 receiver would be the way spending $20,150 would yield the best possible audio performance, but you never know till you try...

Well, I'm not trying to bait you there. I was just taking a stab at these die-hard objectivsts who think all amps sound the same and blah blah blah. They sure like to rip on audiophiles, calling them juvenile names like "audiophools," is highly inventive. NOT. I thought objectivists are scientists, couldn't they come up with a better name for audiophiles? I mean they're intellectually superior right? Anyway, whether you're an objectivist or not, I find it ludicrous to drive a speaker of the caliber of a JBL Synthesis with piss poor electronics made in some god awful backwater 3rd world country. Then again, I'm a subjectivist, but not a die-hard. For example, I'm not going to go off on the merits of $3k a foot speaker cable. The merits are just not there. But I'm not gonna sit here and say everything sounds the same except for speakers. That my friend, is absurd. I have heard the differences between amps and preamps...HUGE differences. The only component where there maybe more similarities than not, are digital players; CD/DVD/SAVCD/DVD-A/MP3 etc. I haven't heard as much differences. Furthermore, I don't listen to graphs, pink noise, and test tones, I listen to MUSIC! So, if you disagree, I don't know what to tell you. This is where I stand...however, I'm open for debate.

[4313B]

Furthermore, I don't listen to graphs, pink noise, and test tonesSomeone else did that part for you. ;)

[Mr. Widget]

Hey, how about those 4365s! Pretty cool eh?


Widget

[hsosdrum]

Hey, how about those 4365s! Pretty cool eh?


Widget

During the 4 years I worked at Harman I had the chance to spend quality time with every single current-model hi-end JBL speaker that comes up for discussion on this forum EXCEPT for the 4365 (even though I created its user manual). I just never found myself hanging out at the engineering labs at the time the 4365s were up and running (and I wasn't about to ask that they be hauled into a sound room and hooked up just so I could audition them). So I can't speak to how good they are or how I think they compare with any other hi-end JBL speaker, although given their pedigree, how they're built (they weigh well over 100 lb each) and the components they're made up with, I can imagine that they sound very, very good indeed.

And of all the hi-end JBLs, the 4365's are the ones that really look like they mean business—just a huge, heavy-as-hell box with a big blue grille and a couple of no-nonsense horns across the top. No fancy design, no curves, no WAF (wife acceptance factor), no BS. When you walk past them you can almost smell the testosterone.

[Dave_72]

Someone else did that part for you. ;)

You probably mean the manufacturer. That's ok. But, I was referring to consumers. I don't buy this stuff to listen to that. I listen to music and if I'm watching a movie and such, sound effects and dialogue. Furthermore, I don't walk into a showroom armed with test equipment asking if I can jerry rig it all to $20k speakers. I go in there to listen to my favorite cuts of music, and not necessarily audiophile approved stuff. Measurements only tell half the story (if that) and that's the way it is as far as I'm concerned.

[pos]

Furthermore, I don't listen to graphs, pink noise, and test tones, I listen to MUSIC
Someone else did that part for you. ;)So true

[Mctwins]

Hallo!

Some new pictures:)

I added the spikes to see what is going on. Must have this MDF plate to move around the speakers a little bit easier. Other than that, the speakers sounds great and still going strong.

JBL:applaud:

[Ed Zeppeli]

Nice. I like that you can see the Amp parameters on the TV screen. Am I seeing that right? If so, what's the output configuration? Amp to Laptop to TV?


Cheers,

Warren

[Mctwins]

Nice. I like that you can see the Amp parameters on the TV screen. Am I seeing that right? If so, what's the output configuration? Amp to Laptop to TV?


Cheers,

Warren

Hallo!

I am using HiQnet Audio Architect for Windows. Connecting via ethernet cabel from my Crown to my computer. Here you can adjust things like limiters, using DSP, output levels, see what line voltage is and so on...

Pretty cool...:D

[4313B]

It adds a whole new level of fun doesn't it? :)

[LowPhreak]

Mctwins, for the love of Pete and all things holy, would you please take the 4365's a bit out of the corners or angle them? Or something? It's killin' me! :blink:



;)

[Mctwins]

Hallo!

Don't need to angle them in or move them out.:D

Absolutely great freq response without any modal ringing.:applaud:

[1audiohack]

Nice to have a good room! Congrats, again. :)

[Valentin]

Nice




Hallo!

Don't need to angle them in or move them out.:D

Absolutely great freq response without any modal ringing.:applaud:

[LowPhreak]

Nice waterfall plot. Does the "shelving" above 600Hz give any sense of chestiness in the mids/low mids? Perhaps not with the room treatments you have.

[Mctwins]

Nice to have a good room! Congrats, again. :)

Thanks, now we know that there is nothing wrong with the speakers.:)

[Mctwins]

Nice

Thanks:)

[Mctwins]

Nice waterfall plot. Does the "shelving" above 600Hz give any sense of chestiness in the mids/low mids? Perhaps not with the room treatments you have.

Now I am not follow you. Off course I have good punch in the mids/low mids. Don't understand what you mean "Perhaps not with the room treatments you have.", please explain?

Or, do you mean from 100Hz to 600Hz or above 600Hz to 20kHz?

[Mctwins]

Hallo!

I just want to be clear here, I am not using any PrePEQ or Post PEQ or any other settings, meaning no DSP settings at all. This is the room response curve at my listening position.

[Mctwins]

Some pictures from the inside. Nice things one can do with a camera.

I manage to stick my hand in one of the ports. At least, it is 1501FE and also real high-end cables:)

[Mctwins]

Hallo!

I am just trying with single wire instead of bi-wiring and using the jumpers that came with the speakers. This config is here to stay. Sounds way much better, don't ask me why!!

I will use the other pair to my 4429:)

[pos]

Hallo Mctwins,

Interesting photos, thanks for sharing!
Looking at your photos it seems like the damping material is the same as in the M2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDTLZCNzhFQ
It does not look like fiberglass, more like polyester to me (sonofil?) ...
What material do you think it is? Is it thick?
Are all the walls but the front baffle covered with it?

[Mctwins]

Hallo Mctwins,

Interesting photos, thanks for sharing!
Looking at your photos it seems like the damping material is the same as in the M2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDTLZCNzhFQ
It does not look like fiberglass, more like polyester to me (sonofil?) ...
What material do you think it is? Is it thick?
Are all the walls but the front baffle covered with it?

It looks the same as far as I can see....not so thick but I will check it to be sure. Looks like 25mm. There is no damping on the front baffle.

Seems that it is seperated boxes, one for the woofer and one for the horn.

[Mctwins]

I did some measurement from Crown amp and it have a feature called SLM(Sweep Load Monitor) and allows one to measure both the impedance of the load attached to the amplifier channel as well as the frequency response through the internal processing.

Here is the curve...with Bi-Wire config.

[Mctwins]

and here with Singel wire...looks pretty much the same. Pretty cool:applaud:

[pos]

It looks the same as far as I can see....not so thick but I will check it to be sure. Looks like 25mm. There is no damping on the front baffle.

Seems that it is seperated boxes, one for the woofer and one for the horn.

Does it looks/feels more like fiberglass or polyester?

[LowPhreak]

Now I am not follow you. Off course I have good punch in the mids/low mids. Don't understand what you mean "Perhaps not with the room treatments you have.", please explain?

Or, do you mean from 100Hz to 600Hz or above 600Hz to 20kHz?

Yes, I mean does the 80-600Hz'ish range seem a bit much or about right to you? Maybe some of that is ameliorated by your room treatment. My personal preference is for a tad less around the 100-500Hz range, depending on other factors of course and also you have to hear for yourself in a given room.

[Mctwins]

Does it looks/feels more like fiberglass or polyester?

Hard to say, I am guessing now, feels more like polyester.

Another picture where one can see the top and no damping material on the front baffle.

[Mctwins]

Yes, I mean does the 80-600Hz'ish range seem a bit much or about right to you? Maybe some of that is ameliorated by your room treatment. My personal preference is for a tad less around the 100-500Hz range, depending on other factors of course and also you have to hear for yourself in a given room.

Ok, I understand, to me it feels very right to have a slope from 80 to 600Hz as show in the mesurement freq response. Remember, I don't use any PEQ, this is the room response that the room is behaving. If looking at the Burst Decay graph, there is almost a free field condition from 20Hz to around 200Hz. Burst Decay has to be interpeted in a differen't manner than a ordinary Waterfall graph or CSD(Cumulative Spectral Dacay) graph. The control of the modal resonances via Varitunes Helmholtz resonators and that the Wing diffusors add the proper ambiance and control of the early reflection is the result as can be seen in the mesurements. There is absolutely no fatiging sound here. I am hearing the speakers as it is. Good control in the bass and crispy and detail control from the horn, the 476Mg sounds excellent. a JBL speaker that sounds like a JBL speaker schould do, no more no less.

:)

[Valentin]

Hi Mctwins

did you make your own varitunes resonators or did you buy them ?

[Mctwins]

Hi Mctwins

did you make your own varitunes resonators or did you buy them ?

Hallo!

I did buy them from SMT AB here in Sweden but there is a USA representant http://www.accurateconstructionchicago.com/ that you contact. You can also contact Matts Odemalm directly if you wish. He is best if you want information regarding room acoustics.

There is no point to build it becasuse these Varitunes is the best when it comes to Helmholtz resonators.:)

[Dave_72]

Some pictures from the inside. Nice things one can do with a camera.

I manage to stick my hand in one of the ports. At least, it is 1501FE and also real high-end cables:)

Monster Cable I take it.

[pos]

Hard to say, I am guessing now, feels more like polyester.

Another picture where one can see the top and no damping material on the front baffle.

It appears I have another recent JBL speakers with some similar looking damping material in it, and it feels like fiberglass/glass wool to me.
Probably something like that: http://www2.owenscorning.com/around/sound/commercial_acoustics/black-acoublanket.asp

I guess they found it easier than using the normal yellow one and having to spray it with black paint behind the ports...

[Mctwins]

It appears I have another recent JBL speakers with some similar looking damping material in it, and it feels like fiberglass/glass wool to me.
Probably something like that: http://www2.owenscorning.com/around/sound/commercial_acoustics/black-acoublanket.asp

I guess they found it easier than using the normal yellow one and having to spray it with black paint behind the ports...

Hallo!

Yes, it looks like it is the same material in the link you provided...it dosen't feel ichy like other absorber material. As long it fulfills it's function.

[Mctwins]

Monster Cable I take it.

Well, don't know what brand of cables they use in 4365 or any other new JBL speakers. To me, it looks like a ordinary oxygen free copper cable.

If it is Monster cable and it makes you happy then it is all good then.:)

[Mctwins]

Now that I had the speakers for some time now and yesterday I played with volume turned up as much the system could take without clipping the amp(or, near clipping point) for several hours(8 hours) with differen't kinds of music. I consider them to be broken in now.

But still, I am suprised that it sounds better with single cable than with bi-wire config...:dont-know:

I read the manual for the K2 S9900 just to read about the transducer 476Mg but find it very interesting that they do not recommend bi-amp config on page 25. I find it also interesting on page 30 about Bi-amp switch and I qoute:

"The bi-amp switch is located under the battery access cover and allows thesystem to be set up for the use of an external low-level crossover. This switch removes the passive components in the low- and high-frequency networks that have to do with the actual crossover blending of the low-frequency and highfrequency transducers. Level attenuation and equalization circuits remain active. In the case of the K2 S9900, the voltage drive required from an externalcrossover network is very unusual and, in most cases, is not likely to be achievable with standard crossover networks. It is for this reason that active bi-amplification of the K2 S9900 is not advised (Fig. 12)."

http://75.102.11.26/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/JBL_K2_S9900_OM.pdf


I find this interesting thou...
"Level attenuation and equalization circuits remain active."

This is one of the reason I don't bi-amp these speakers.....

[ivica]

Now that I had the speakers for some time now and yesterday I played with volume turned up as much the system could take without clipping the amp(or, near clipping point) for several hours(8 hours) with differen't kinds of music. I consider them to be broken in now.

But still, I am suprised that it sounds better with single cable than with bi-wire config...:dont-know:

I read the manual for the K2 S9900 just to read about the transducer 476Mg but find it very interesting that they do not recommend bi-amp config on page 25. I find it also interesting on page 30 about Bi-amp switch and I qoute:

"The bi-amp switch is located under the battery access cover and allows thesystem to be set up for the use of an external low-level crossover. This switch removes the passive components in the low- and high-frequency networks that have to do with the actual crossover blending of the low-frequency and highfrequency transducers. Level attenuation and equalization circuits remain active. In the case of the K2 S9900, the voltage drive required from an externalcrossover network is very unusual and, in most cases, is not likely to be achievable with standard crossover networks. It is for this reason that active bi-amplification of the K2 S9900 is not advised (Fig. 12)."

http://75.102.11.26/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/JBL_K2_S9900_OM.pdf


I find this interesting thou...
"Level attenuation and equalization circuits remain active."

This is one of the reason I don't bi-amp these speakers.....

Hi Mctwins,

May be can help:
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?24086-K2-s9900&p=252244&viewfull=1#post252244

regards
Ivica

[Dave_72]

Well, don't know what brand of cables they use in 4365 or any other new JBL speakers. To me, it looks like a ordinary oxygen free copper cable.

If it is Monster cable and it makes you happy then it is all good then.:)

Oh I dunno if it's Monster or not. I was just taking a wild guess. If it is, no big deal, and no worries.

[JeffW]

There'd probably be a label if it was

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=35625&stc=1&d=1227995601

[Mctwins]

Hi Mctwins,

May be can help:
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?24086-K2-s9900&p=252244&viewfull=1#post252244

regards
Ivica

Thanks for the link.. very interesting and informative. But, JBL still do not recommend bi-amping if not the user is familiar with electronic crossover/EQ equipment he or she can do so, but, still have to have the same Voltage vs Freq curve as in the passive network. So here, I don't see the point, the result will still be the same.

Nice white paper, how could I miss this one.

[Mctwins]

There'd probably be a label if it was

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=35625&stc=1&d=1227995601

Nice, I have put back the metalplate in my 4429 and will go for singelwire here as well. With SpeakOn connectors.

Aha, now I see it...Monster cable

[Mctwins]

I am happy with Supra Ply 3,4 speaker cables. Good electrical data:)

[Mctwins]

I have connected my beloved dbx260 in the system, now it won't clip anymore on the input. Running fullrange config. Love those brickwall limiters.

[ivica]

Thanks for the link.. very interesting and informative. But, JBL still do not recommend bi-amping if not the user is familiar with electronic crossover/EQ equipment he or she can do so, but, still have to have the same Voltage vs Freq curve as in the passive network. So here, I don't see the point, the result will still be the same.

Nice white paper, how could I miss this one.

Hi Mctwins,

Looking at the JBL K2-S9900 network, using bi-amp mode, You can change bass to VHF driver crossover frequency, while UHF would not be influenced, and driver & H9900 horn EQ network will remain in the system too (CD compensation, etc). So bass driver control would be better (as no passive elements would interfere).

Regards
Ivica

[Mctwins]

Hi Mctwins,

Looking at the JBL K2-S9900 network, using bi-amp mode, You can change bass to VHF driver crossover frequency, while UHF would not be influenced, and driver & H9900 horn EQ network will remain in the system too (CD compensation, etc). So bass driver control would be better (as no passive elements would interfere).

Regards
Ivica

Yes. you are correct and I understand the difference between the K2 and 4365, but, there is no bi-amp switch on 4365 and the network is still in working order when bi-amping. Still, I don't have to worry or go with the hassle to adjust the x-overs voltage vs freq response. To me, regarding bi-wire vs singel wire, single wire wins. It sounds better. Sounds cleaner and more coherent sound.

Maybe I hear the difference becasue one single cable goes from the amp directly to the speaker. To me, it is allready bi-wired(inside the cabinet of the 4365) from the binding post to the seperate Woofer and HF. Don't have to buy another sets of cable for the 4429:)

[Mctwins]

Before I connected the dbx260 I was running in the Crown DCi at 28dB gain. There are two settings in the Crown, one 34dB gain and one 28dB gain. 34dB gain corresponds to 1,4Volt sensitivity and the 28dB gain is 6dB lower in signal level.

Now I am running in the 34dB gain. When I run a pink noise thru the system from my CD player the INPUT SIGNAL on my dbx260 is flashing red at a volume level at 80% on my McIntosh C48. Turned down the INPUT LEVEL on my dbx260 INPUT MIXER by -1dB and on my Crown to -3,5dB so no more clipping on the input both on the dbx260 or the Crown. After this I set the LIMITER on the dbx260 so when I pass beyond 80% no clipping is detected on the input on the Crown. Technically, I can play music from 80-100& without clipping the input stage. Off course, it is very loud.:) On the OUTPUT LEVEL on the Crown I turn down to -5dB so I have the same level in INPUT and OUTPUT on my Crown amp or to my satisfactory level depends what mood I am in. Gain structure properly done...

When I had it on 28dB gain it sounded good but softer, now , ooiiiieeeeee god damn.:)

[bubbleboy76]

In your room and system, how is the sound different between 4365 and 4429? Have you compared?

[Mctwins]

In your room and system, how is the sound different between 4365 and 4429? Have you compared?

Hallo!

Well, it is difficult to describe how it sounds in words. To answer your question, there is no difference how it sounds in the room, acoustically speaking. There is difference between the speakers, 4365 has more SPL level compared to 4429. If you look at the measurements I have been presented, both 4429 and 4365 looking at the listening position, then it looks the same, dispite the differen't speaker position. Most important is to see in the measurement if you have modal resonances, special the Burst Decay in ARTA. Also the Early Reflection is important as well.

Measureing a speaker vs a room is totally two differen't things.

Yes, I am comparing every day when I switch between listening to 4429 or 4365, both speakers sounds great in there own way, so to speak.

[bubbleboy76]

So they measure the same, but sounds different?

[Mctwins]

So they measure the same, but sounds different?

You are missunderstanding me,

All of my JBL speakers sounds the same in my room

You have to take the loudspeaker out of the equation when talking about room acoustics. The charateristics of the Room Acoustic response vs the Response of the loudspeaker measurerd in a anechoic chamber is two differen't matter.

The only thing that differ is the SPL level produced from the loudspeaker. For example, PRX600 series has 10dB more SPL level compared to 4365 at the same volume setting (say 60%) from my preamp.

[pos]

You have to take the loudspeaker out of the equation when talking about room acoustics.
That might be true if all loudspeakers had the exact same directivity behavior, but that is far from being the case.

[Mctwins]

Hallo!

I will soon add a Crown MA 5000i to drive my JBL 4365:applaud::D:)

My Crown DCi 2/600N will go to 4429, change my mind about Drivecore XLS2002:)

[Mctwins]

Hallo!

Tomorrow!!.... probably, I will have my Crown MA 5000i deliverd. oowwieee:applaud::)

[bubbleboy76]

That is a lot of power :)

[Mctwins]

That is a lot of power :)

Yes it is, if you don't use the limiting settings. :)

[Mctwins]

Hallo!

So, yesterday it arrived, my Crown MA 5000i and connected it to drive my 4365. My DCi 2/600N goes to 4429. Now, both systems is complete.

The MAi has a better grip hold on to the speakers as I expected compared to DCi. MAi is a winner:applaud:

[LowPhreak]

Now that you have the big Crown, have you turned them all the way up yet - you know max continuous RMS rating, or just below distortion just to see what they'll do? :bouncy:

[Mctwins]

Now that you have the big Crown, have you turned them all the way up yet - you know max continuous RMS rating, or just below distortion just to see what they'll do? :bouncy:

Yes, today I have :applaud:and the 4365 sound even better now:D. I say "god damn". It is like it holds the bass in a grip and longer, difficult to describe. It feels like the bass is jumping off the frame.

I have it on 26dB gain and also using the 260 in the chain, for the input limiters. I have the RMS Power Threshold limiters set on 300Watts and Peak Threshold at 97Vpk(Voltage Peak).

The Crown MA 5000i is not a toy, fantastic amplifier!!!!!!

[Dave_72]

Hallo!

So, yesterday it arrived, my Crown MA 5000i and connected it to drive my 4365. My DCi 2/600N goes to 4429. Now, both systems is complete.

The MAi has a better grip hold on to the speakers as I expected compared to DCi. MAi is a winner:applaud:

The Crown is not cheap, though. $4600 retail USD. I personally would go for something else for a purer sound, haha.

[bubbleboy76]

The Crown is not cheap, though. $4600 retail USD. I personally would go for something else for a purer sound, haha.

I know better than to compare specs on paper, but the rated THD on the Crown is pretty high isn't it? 1% THD. My Hypex nCores has a rated THD of below 0.0007%. That is world class though :)

[Mctwins]

The Crown is not cheap, though. $4600 retail USD. I personally would go for something else for a purer sound, haha.

Hallo!

I did get my Crown less than you are saying. Talking about money is a relativ matter and I don't like to talk about this subject on a forum.

But, you have to define what you mean by "purer sound", please explain!!!

[Mctwins]

I know better than to compare specs on paper, but the rated THD on the Crown is pretty high isn't it? 1% THD. My Hypex nCores has a rated THD of below 0.0007%. That is world class though :)

Hallo!

You are totally wrong about the THD figures. Where did you get this number from?

Here is the correct data about Crown MA5000i, remember, this is for all Macro-Tech from MA5000i, MA9000i and MA12000i.

Total Harmonic Distortion(THD) at 2watts into 8ohms <0,1%
Total Harmonic Distortion(THD) Plus Noise at full rated power <0,35%
Intermodulation Distortion(IMD) 60Hz and 7kHz at 4:1, from full rated output to -30dB <0,35%

Please do write correctly next time!!!

[Dave_72]

Hallo!

I did get my Crown less than you are saying. Talking about money is a relativ matter and I don't like to talk about this subject on a forum.

But, you have to define what you mean by "purer sound", please explain!!!

Of course, nobody pays retail unless maybe ultra high end stuff, but to me still expensive for such a small and light amp. The better choices in that price range are ATI 6002 and maybe the Bryston 4BSST2.

Purer sound is lack of grain, better reproduced frequencies, sounds like real instruments in a real space, and separation of the instruments. The instruments and voices sounds like they are coming from outside the speakers rather than from them. This can be done. When you have sound merely coming from each speaker, that is not true stereo, that is dual mono or mono. Imo, Crown and most other pro gear does not achieve this goal, they weren't designed for that anyway. They were designed just for sound reinforcement. Now top flight studio gear like the new-ish JBLs such as the M2 and your speakers, that's a different story.

[Bobecca]

Of course, nobody pays retail unless maybe ultra high end stuff, but to me still expensive for such a small and light amp. The better choices in that price range are ATI 6002 and maybe the Bryston 4BSST2.

Purer sound is lack of grain, better reproduced frequencies, sounds like real instruments in a real space, and separation of the instruments. The instruments and voices sounds like they are coming from outside the speakers rather than from them. This can be done. When you have sound merely coming from each speaker, that is not true stereo, that is dual mono or mono. Imo, Crown and most other pro gear does not achieve this goal, they weren't designed for that anyway. They were designed just for sound reinforcement. Now top flight studio gear like the new-ish JBLs such as the M2 and your speakers, that's a different story.

I have equal pure sound now then when running all the gear in McIntosh. I have all that you describe despite the change of the gear. You are wrong in saying that Crown dosent achive this goal. All of my gear is of the pro side at the moment and frankly it has everything that you are saying it dosent have.

You should have better facts in your statements before you write such funny stuff:D

[bubbleboy76]

0.1% not 1%. Misspelling from me.

[Dave_72]

I have equal pure sound now then when running all the gear in McIntosh. I have all that you describe despite the change of the gear. You are wrong in saying that Crown dosent achive this goal. All of my gear is of the pro side at the moment and frankly it has everything that you are saying it dosent have.

You should have better facts in your statements before you write such funny stuff:D

And what better facts do you have? Pro audio can be good, but not to the level of sound quality and true stereo presentation as the better high end units. Again, pro, with the exception of studio monitors like JBL, is not designed to do that. There are exceptions, however. And pro audio can be just as expensive as high end audio, so let's deflate that myth.

[LowPhreak]

If you look at post 4, one can see that load impedance is around 10 ohms. The right coner of the screen where is say's "Amplifier settings". Notice that the picture is not so good but download it your computer so you can see it a little better.

We have this as a reference and we can see later on if the impedance goes down to it's nominal level, 8ohm

Amplifier settings, Average IMP. On the screen that says "Continuous"


Hi McTwins,

Oznob's recent thread on his new 590's reminded me of this again. Wondering if you've seen any change in that 10Ω impedance since they were new?

[Mctwins]

Hi McTwins,

Oznob's recent thread on his new 590's reminded me of this again. Wondering if you've seen any change in that 10Ω impedance since they were new?

Hallo!

If you look at post 21, I have notice that I didn't set the nominal impedance correctly. This setting was for the 4429 speakers nominal impedance. So forgett about this.

Now I have MA5000i, but I can tell that it fluctuate between 8 to 11ohms depends what volume setting I have.

So, to answer your question, No, I don't see any major difference.

[Mctwins]

0.1% not 1%. Misspelling from me.

Good, thanks!

[Mctwins]

Of course, nobody pays retail unless maybe ultra high end stuff, but to me still expensive for such a small and light amp. The better choices in that price range are ATI 6002 and maybe the Bryston 4BSST2.

Purer sound is lack of grain, better reproduced frequencies, sounds like real instruments in a real space, and separation of the instruments. The instruments and voices sounds like they are coming from outside the speakers rather than from them. This can be done. When you have sound merely coming from each speaker, that is not true stereo, that is dual mono or mono. Imo, Crown and most other pro gear does not achieve this goal, they weren't designed for that anyway. They were designed just for sound reinforcement. Now top flight studio gear like the new-ish JBLs such as the M2 and your speakers, that's a different story.

You are totally wrong about that a pro gear can't achive this. I really don't understand you here. I have seen picture of your room, and, in a acoustically point of view is a totally disaster, So, how can you judge if it sounds good or not and evaluate how it sounds in your room.

[LowPhreak]

Hallo!

If you look at post 21, I have notice that I didn't set the nominal impedance correctly. This setting was for the 4429 speakers nominal impedance. So forgett about this.

Now I have MA5000i, but I can tell that it fluctuate between 8 to 11ohms depends what volume setting I have.

So, to answer your question, No, I don't see any major difference.

How can you say you've seen no difference for the 4365's if you didn't have a reference point for them to begin with?

[Mctwins]

How can you say you've seen no difference for the 4365's if you didn't have a reference point for them to begin with?

Hallo!

What I mean that I don't see any difference is that the impedance fluctuate between 8-11ohms. You are correct, I don't have any reference point becasue the settings for the nominal impedance was wrong(was for the 4429)

Why is this so important for you.:confused:

[Mctwins]

Hallo!

I did check with a pink noise instead, much more stable, and I run at 50% of the volume on my preamp. Here you see it is around 8ohm. Happy:D

But, still no reference becasue I didn't do this test when the speakers where new, so it's ancient history:)

You have to make your own judgement about this topic.

[LowPhreak]

Cool your tits, man. :scold: I thought it might help to explain the break-in effect that many say they hear with new speakers, but others say doesn't exist. I thought you knew that and was why you were going to get some initial values on your new pair to compare after the woofers had some hours on them.

After all, isn't this our hobby, and what's the point in having all of that tech if you don't use it for things like this?

Didn't think I'd have to explain it but there you go. Anyway, too late now so it's moot. :rolleyes:

Really don't know why some are so fucking snide and hostile around here, but yeah...it's not cool.

[Mctwins]

Cool your tits, man. :scold: I thought it might help to explain the break-in effect that many say they hear with new speakers, but others say doesn't exist. I thought you knew that and was why you were going to get some initial values on your new pair to compare after the woofers had some hours on them.

After all, isn't this our hobby, and what's the point in having all of that tech if you don't use it for things like this?

Didn't think I'd have to explain it but there you go. Anyway, too late now so it's moot. :rolleyes:

Really don't know why some are so fucking snide and hostile around here, but yeah...it's not cool.

Don't worry! I'm cool:)

If it was so important for you maybe I schould be more accurate in my test. But it's too late now. I am not so interested in how a break-in time works. To be honest, I really don't care.

[Bobecca]

And what better facts do you have? Pro audio can be good, but not to the level of sound quality and true stereo presentation as the better high end units. Again, pro, with the exception of studio monitors like JBL, is not designed to do that. There are exceptions, however. And pro audio can be just as expensive as high end audio, so let's deflate that myth.

My facts derives in that I have experieance in both setups. Ive had your so called high-end gear connected in the same speakers and room and switched to pro gear in the same room and speakers and still have the same top sound between those to gears. Has nothing in what you say that there should be less stereo image and poorer sound quality.

So again what facts do you have or what can you provide???

[Bobecca]

Cool your tits, man. :scold: I thought it might help to explain the break-in effect that many say they hear with new speakers, but others say doesn't exist. I thought you knew that and was why you were going to get some initial values on your new pair to compare after the woofers had some hours on them.

After all, isn't this our hobby, and what's the point in having all of that tech if you don't use it for things like this?

Didn't think I'd have to explain it but there you go. Anyway, too late now so it's moot. :rolleyes:

Really don't know why some are so fucking snide and hostile around here, but yeah...it's not cool.

If it helps, Ive havent seen any change in my Cinema screen arrays togheter with my Crowns MAi setup.

It was the same valuse from day one and present time. I wouldent bother something that is called brake-in time in pro gear;)

[LowPhreak]

Don't worry! I'm cool:)

If it was so important for you maybe I schould be more accurate in my test. But it's too late now. I am not so interested in how a break-in time works. To be honest, I really don't care.


It's not so "important" per se but I am interested in whether it can be measured or not as just another aspect of this crazy hobby. That's all.

[Mctwins]

It's not so "important" per se but I am interested in whether it can be measured or not as just another aspect of this crazy hobby. That's all.

Ok I understand. Sorry for not being so accurste about all this. There is more problem in room acoustics that I find it more interesting to have good sound from the speakers than break-in.

According to Dave_72(if my memory is correct) it take two years to break-in a pair of S4700:dont-know:

[LowPhreak]

Sure, room acoustics and speaker placement are very important. From my experience with several speakers over the years, brand-new, unplayed speakers can sound fairly bad too and not as intended by the manufacturer.

[Dave_72]

Ok I understand. Sorry for not being so accurste about all this. There is more problem in room acoustics that I find it more interesting to have good sound from the speakers than break-in.

According to Dave_72(if my memory is correct) it take two years to break-in a pair of S4700:dont-know:

It did, and I'm standing behind that all the way, buddy.

Now, about my room, no it's not perfect, but I've had plenty of people in here saying that it is good.

Have you been in here? No, you haven't. So shutup until you have!

[Dave_72]

You are totally wrong about that a pro gear can't achive this. I really don't understand you here. I have seen picture of your room, and, in a acoustically point of view is a totally disaster, So, how can you judge if it sounds good or not and evaluate how it sounds in your room.

Most pro gear is not designed and meant for domestic settings. Again, there are exceptions! However, that's why we have home audio and consumer gear! Becuase it's designed for use in the home! You mean to tell me you're gonna damn a whole industry, with your pro pro pro mantra.

[Mctwins]

It did, and I'm standing behind that all the way, buddy.

Now, about my room, no it's not perfect, but I've had plenty of people in here saying that it is good.

Have you been in here? No, you haven't. So shutup until you have!


Most pro gear is not designed and meant for domestic settings. Again, there are exceptions! However, that's why we have home audio and consumer gear! Becuase it's designed for use in the home! You mean to tell me you're gonna damn a whole industry, with your pro pro pro mantra.

Hallo!

Dave....Please, are you telling me to shut up when it's you who started in post95 and telling me that the amplifier I have is not cheap and I could go with better for the same price with purer sound, c'mon!!!

and in post99...still arguing about the price:confused:and telling me that the Crown or other pro gear can't achive this goal to produce purer sound.:eek:

If you are able to write such argument then you have to be ready to take both positive and negative criticism before telling people to shut-up. You have never been in my room, so how do you know if it sounds good or not with the pro gear. Yes, you are correct that I have not been in your room, but I know one or two things how it sounds in a non acoustically treated room vs treated rooms.

We are going around in circles here....you keep your point of view and I keep mine...shall we!!!

[bubbleboy76]

Opposites attracts. I think you should get a room!
;)

[Dave_72]

Hallo!

Dave....Please, are you telling me to shut up when it's you who started in post95 and telling me that the amplifier I have is not cheap and I could go with better for the same price with purer sound, c'mon!!!

and in post99...still arguing about the price:confused:and telling me that the Crown or other pro gear can't achive this goal to produce purer sound.:eek:

If you are able to write such argument then you have to be ready to take both positive and negative criticism before telling people to shut-up. You have never been in my room, so how do you know if it sounds good or not with the pro gear. Yes, you are correct that I have not been in your room, but I know one or two things how it sounds in a non acoustically treated room vs treated rooms.

We are going around in circles here....you keep your point of view and I keep mine...shall we!!!

Fair enough! :D

[Mctwins]

Hallo!

I am going to have a party this evening....let's hope the speakers will survive the high volume:)

[LowPhreak]

I hope the party survives the speakers! :dancin:

[Mctwins]

Hallo!

We all did survive the party, some had little bit more beer than me. They didn't like the highvolume sound, I do realize that I do play loud when listening by myself:). I did let my friends decide the volume setting that evening, I wasen't worried at all....Could push it a little bit more.

[LowPhreak]

Nice!

Are the speakers or amps hungover? :D

[Mctwins]

Hallo!

I have done a measurement 1 meter on axis from the speaker. I took it where the speaker is standing. The passive network seems to be working well.:)

The Red Curve is 1/6 oct

The Blue Curve is 1/24 oct

[tom1040]

Well, I have to say that these speakers ROCK's , great detail in voices and the bass has a good grip and sounds firm and tight. The mid bass, specially the snaredrum and perccusion sounds tight as well. I love the pluck sound. It really hits you even on low volume level. I have not yet pushed them with high volume levels, soon I will, maybe this evening.

Too me, I still really don't understand what this means "Break In" time :dont-know:, they sound good allready, if I had these for years.

One thing is for sure, they are heavy to be moved around by one person. this is the only complaint I have with these speakers.

Funkydelala:bouncy:


Here is an except from the owners manual regarding break in:


As with most speakers, the 4365 has transducers whose suspensions will take several weeks to “break in” and achieve
optimum performance. During this period, the balance between the woofer, HF and UHF drivers may change, so we
recommend that you adjust the HF and UHF controls accordingly.


Sorry for the small print. I may be on the verge of acquiring a pair of these myself.

[1audiohack]

Hi Tom;

Do you still have the 1400's?

Barry.

[tom1040]

Hi Tom;

Do you still have the 1400's?

Barry.

I do still have the 1400's. IF I can get my hands on the 4365's they are heading into a "Man Cave", or as I like to call it, the music room.

[1audiohack]

That's just about exactly what happenend here.

I left the Array subs in the room with the 4365's and it is near heaven.

I hope you get them!

Barry.

[Mctwins]

Here is an except from the owners manual regarding break in:


As with most speakers, the 4365 has transducers whose suspensions will take several weeks to “break in” and achieve
optimum performance. During this period, the balance between the woofer, HF and UHF drivers may change, so we
recommend that you adjust the HF and UHF controls accordingly.


Sorry for the small print. I may be on the verge of acquiring a pair of these myself.

Hallo!

Several weeks has already passed. They are definitive "Breaked- In" since April.:D

You will have a great speakers, that's for sure.

[LowPhreak]

Ah HA! I didn't know that was also in the manual about break-in. See I told you so. ;)

[Mctwins]

Power Performance:D

[ngccglp]

Yes. you are correct and I understand the difference between the K2 and 4365, but, there is no bi-amp switch on 4365 and the network is still in working order when bi-amping. Still, I don't have to worry or go with the hassle to adjust the x-overs voltage vs freq response. To me, regarding bi-wire vs singel wire, single wire wins. It sounds better. Sounds cleaner and more coherent sound.

Maybe I hear the difference becasue one single cable goes from the amp directly to the speaker. To me, it is allready bi-wired(inside the cabinet of the 4365) from the binding post to the seperate Woofer and HF. Don't have to buy another sets of cable for the 4429:)

My experience is quite the opposite with my K2 M9500. The M9500 allows for passive Bi Amping just like the 4365. With single wire, during loud complex passages the sound can get congested and instruments separation would be not so clean. With passive bi amping, it does not have the same issues. But I must add that I used identical amps and cables for bi amping to remove any discrepancies in timing etc.