Improvements I would like to see

[antoninus9]

I've been visiting this forum for quite awhile, and find it very useful. Unfortunately, I seldom visit or post anything. I usually run across a post from here while researching JBL speakers and systems. Until now I hadn't really given any thought to why I seldom visit a forum where the topic of discussion is very interesting to me. The answer was at once obvious: I mostly use my smartphone (phablet) for social interaction. As a matter of statistical fact the vast majority of forum users on the Internet interact via their smartphones using the Tapatalk app, or a proprietary app written specifically for the forum.

Another thing missing is a dynamic content mobile friendly home page similar to that of Home Theater Shack. Wouldn't it be nice to simply browse the home page and see all the latest posts, along with all the latest product announcements from JBL? It would also provide a place for user written articles about restoration projects, tips, tweeks, and reviews.

I suspect that these improvements might also result in Harman International throwing marketing dollars towards the support and maintenance of the site and forum.

I would be willing to help improve the site, but don't know who to contact. If there is any interest please feel free to contact me.

[Mr. Widget]

I'm sure I'm missing something, but I read your post while in line at Chipotle using my phone with no special apps. I took a screenshot of how I keep track of new posts, uploaded it and posted it all before my burrito was made.

Widget

[pos]

enjoy your meal!

[BMWCCA]

Until now I hadn't really given any thought to why I seldom visit a forum where the topic of discussion is very interesting to me. The answer was at once obvious: I mostly use my smartphone (phablet) for social interaction. As a matter of statistical fact the vast majority of forum users on the Internet interact via their smartphones using the Tapatalk app, or a proprietary app written specifically for the forum.

Another thing missing is a dynamic content mobile friendly home page similar to that of Home Theater Shack. Wouldn't it be nice to simply browse the home page and see all the latest posts, along with all the latest product announcements from JBL? It would also provide a place for user written articles about restoration projects, tips, tweeks, and reviews.

I suspect that these improvements might also result in Harman International throwing marketing dollars towards the support and maintenance of the site and forum.

I would be willing to help improve the site, but don't know who to contact. If there is any interest please feel free to contact me.

I don't really know where to start. If you like typing on your cell phone then good for you. I find it rather exasperating to try to put my thoughts down in a readable manner typing on a phone. To each their own. I have no issue using the phone to keep up with this forum when traveling but it's nowhere near as satisfying as when I use my laptop. Like Widget, I open to the What's New link and have no issue with the information or the presentation.

You idea of "improvements" should be filed in the round file under the heading "if it ain't broke . . . "

Furthermore, I'd suggest statistics would just as likely show that the majority of Internet forum users and tweeters are vapid, shallow folks who deal in soundbites and updating their status. As frequently as we might go off-topic here, there's a sense of community and camaraderie that doesn't exist in the world where your social standing is determined by your number of followers. This is the Lansing forum, not the Kardashian forum.

You need to ask yourself whether your purpose in participating is to help others learn about JBL, to learn yourself, or to simply enhance your social standing. The Internet is a huge place with corners for every purpose. IMNSHO, this place works fine for those with a serious interest in all things Lansing just the way it is. For everything else there's Twitter, Facebook, and all the other tripe you youngsters call social interaction these days.

Now get off my lawn! ;)

[SEAWOLF97]

As a matter of statistical fact the vast majority of forum users on the Internet interact via their smartphones using the Tapatalk app, or a proprietary app written specifically for the forum.

I don't know this to be fact. Can you post a link to that source ?




I suspect that these improvements might also result in Harman International throwing marketing dollars towards the support and maintenance of the site and forum.

I really suspect ..not




I would be willing to help improve the site, but don't know who to contact. If there is any interest please feel free to contact me.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/misc.php?do=donate

[1audiohack]

Hi All;

It looks like antoninus9 has been a member for five or six years with only 16 posts? Hopefully Widgets help will get him going. That's how I jump in here is with the what's new button, mostly on my phone as well.

I don't know what is meant by active content but I for one delight in the fact that there are no popups or advertising at all here. Web pages with all kinds of stuff moving around on the screen seriously distracts me and reminds me of how far and fast we have slid into Idiocracy.

I also seriously don't get the if you want to help out shut the hell up and donate attitude. That would get a straight FU out of me either on a web page or to your face.

Barry.

[antoninus9]

Please allow me to apologize to those whom I've obviously offended, and to offer up some background. I'm a computer engineer with a background in network security and web development. I had hoped that my input would be helpful in growing the community. I'm actually not so young, and probably older than most of you.

It is a fact that there are more mobile devices (smartphones) than desktop computers on the Internet. Globally, Android has the largest share, but in the USA iOS and Android are virtually tied. Windows Desktops have about 90% of the desktop market, with all other dividing up the remaining 10%.

I'm not a Facebook user. "Tweeters" or Twitter users tend to be more information seeking than social, as twitter acts as a feed of events, ideas, etc. I do not have a Twitter account either, as I prefer RSS feeds (old school, but it works for me.)

"Dynamic Content" does not refer to ads or pop-ups (I hate both). It's taking the latest RSS news fed from JBL, JBL Pro, and the most recent posts from this forum and showing them on the home page. It's a way of allowing users to see the latest from this site and JBL in one glance.

The assumption that other ways to utilize technology is only for "vapid, shallow folks who deal in soundbites" is counter to the fact that the pace of scientific and engineering achievements has exploded thanks, in part, to our improved ability to communicate both socially and academically as a global community.

Why would I donate either time or money to a community where I've been asked to "get off my lawn!"

I wish all of you the best.

Goodbye.

[BMWCCA]

Why would I donate either time or money to a community where I've been asked to "get off my lawn!"

I wish all of you the best.

Goodbye.
You're obviously very accomplished in your field and know your business. You would benefit from getting out more and then you'd grok the significance of the emoticon I used as well as the phrase which implies the way the proverbial grumpy old man warns kids away.

Personally, I think the last thing I need is an RSS feed of the latest from Harman. I have Seawolf's "JBL Turkey" thread if I want to see how low my favorite speaker company's parent has sunk.

This site is all about sharing ideas. Yours are no less important than anyone else's. Many bright people don't seem to possess the gene that allows them to see how they come across to others. For you to pop in and suggest an overhaul of something many of us are more than satisfied with already was bound to put some on the defensive. The fact that you failed to catch the humor in the responses should indicate you, too, might need to lighten up.

Just my thoughts. Hope you'll decide to come back and participate. Or not. Your call.

[Mr. Widget]

Please allow me to apologize to those whom I've obviously offended...No apologies needed. A flack jacket is useful around here at times though... :)


Widget

[hjames]

One important element missed here is that this is a fan based site, not an official arm of the Harman Industries.
Lotta people seem to miss that fact somehow. This is the Lansing HERITAGE site - generally concerned with the older stuff.
There are some newer things doing with Corporate that are intriguing - just as there are somethings that are not.
Some of the new technologies and designs are interesting as well - just not all of them.





Please allow me to apologize to those whom I've obviously offended, and to offer up some background. I'm a computer engineer with a background in network security and web development. I had hoped that my input would be helpful in growing the community. I'm actually not so young, and probably older than most of you.

It is a fact that there are more mobile devices (smartphones) than desktop computers on the Internet. Globally, Android has the largest share, but in the USA iOS and Android are virtually tied. Windows Desktops have about 90% of the desktop market, with all other dividing up the remaining 10%.

I'm not a Facebook user. "Tweeters" or Twitter users tend to be more information seeking than social, as twitter acts as a feed of events, ideas, etc. I do not have a Twitter account either, as I prefer RSS feeds (old school, but it works for me.)

"Dynamic Content" does not refer to ads or pop-ups (I hate both). It's taking the latest RSS news fed from JBL, JBL Pro, and the most recent posts from this forum and showing them on the home page. It's a way of allowing users to see the latest from this site and JBL in one glance.

The assumption that other ways to utilize technology is only for "vapid, shallow folks who deal in soundbites" is counter to the fact that the pace of scientific and engineering achievements has exploded thanks, in part, to our improved ability to communicate both socially and academically as a global community.

Why would I donate either time or money to a community where I've been asked to "get off my lawn!"

I wish all of you the best.

Goodbye.

[SEAWOLF97]

As others have said ..Lansing HERITAGE forum is mainly about VINTAGE Lansing products. Sure there are mentions of current HAR products , but aside from plastic MP3 gear they do not market to this audience.

HAR can make high quality gear and JBL Pro is proof of this , but most of it is exported and difficult to buy here.

HAR generally does not support vintage JBL very well and so I really can't see them offering any support to this site.

Sometimes humor on the web is read differently by different people. Have been accused of not picking up on it myself sometimes. BMWCCA did include a winking emoticon which could have been a clue. His general tone did indicate non-seriousness (but I have been reading his posts for some time, so may have an advantage over the OP)

No need to disappear because of the reactions. You seem to have ideas to offer and sometimes need thick skin here to survive the snipes, snarks & snopes.

For the poster who threatens a FU (is that FY ?) to my face, plse PM me and I'll give you an address.

[antoninus9]

I agree that Harman International has made some poor business decisions regarding JBL. As a corporation (HAR) is beholden to its stock holders who are comprised primarily of large mutual funds. The large stake holders get to appoint the members of the Board of Directors who, in turn, select the executives to lead the company. The Internet is a very powerful medium for driving corporate policy, especially when faced with negative publicity. The present Luddite mentality on this forum is counter-productive to the desires of its members. If you want JBL to manufacture replacement parts for older systems, and offer high quality consumer products, then you need to make yourselves heard through every venue on the Internet. You also need to grow your community using every means possible. When you have enough presence (mass), you will get the attention of the Board.

Or, you can continue to fill your closets with replacement parts from eBay, and bemoan the present state of affairs at JBL, while realizing these sentiments fall on deaf ears at Harman International.

As a case in point consider Microsoft. For the past decade they ignored please from the developer community and their user base to make the necessary changes required for the mass movement towards mobile systems. While profits continued to rise, the stake holders felt threatened by the community and forced Board changes and a shake-up of the executive staff. Microsoft is far larger than Harman International. If the developer and user community can drive changes at Microsoft, an even smaller group can force changes at Harman.

As the fan-base of JBL speakers you have a voice, but you have to be able to speak much louder than you do now. The changes I recommended were the first steps necessary in gaining that louder voice.

[Mr. Widget]

The present Luddite mentality on this forum is counter-productive to the desires of its members.I'm pretty happy with my Luddite ways. :D I even still spin the black discs.

As for trying to get Harman to give a damn... we've jumped up and down like petulant children on this topic for years. Our interests are supported and shared by many in the engineering department, but the fact is the gear we are interested in is financially a rounding error for Harman. Hard to grab the attention of shareholders with that kind of clout.


Widget

[antoninus9]

I'm pretty happy with my Luddite ways. :D I even still spin the black discs.

As for trying to get Harman to give a damn... we've jumped up and down like petulant children on this topic for years. Our interests are supported and shared by many in the engineering department, but the fact is the gear we are interested in is financially a rounding error for Harman. Hard to grab the attention of shareholders with that kind of clout.


Widget

I still spin black discs too. :)

You're right that the consumer home speaker division is a small fraction of net income at JBL, but this perspective is much too tightly focused. The site and forum needs to broaden its view to encompass all aspects of JBL's business. For instance, if you had a dynamic front end, and a user did a review of the latest JBL Pro monitor, it would get attention. If it was a bad review, even more-so.

While you personally might not care about JBL Pro monitors, there are many out there who do, and if offered a place at the table (so-to-speak), they would join your community. The larger and more all-encompassing the community becomes, the louder its voice will be. This is but one example.

Consider this... There are many car enthusiast forums around the net. They have become very popular with owners. So much so that GM, Ford, etc. now have full-time employees to monitor them and offer feedback and assistance. This forum has the potential to be the same with JBL.

[hjames]

Think the last folks who made a big ta-do about buying Pro Monitors wound up with a pair of Bluefaced monitors
Harman makes for the asian market and doesn't actually sell stateside. I won't go into whether they are "really"
pro monitors or just pro-STYLE monitors, but they were warmly received by the crowd here - with great interest.


I still spin black discs too. :)

You're right that the consumer home speaker division is a small fraction of net income at JBL, but this perspective is much too tightly focused. The site and forum needs to broaden its view to encompass all aspects of JBL's business. For instance, if you had a dynamic front end, and a user did a review of the latest JBL Pro monitor, it would get attention. If it was a bad review, even more-so.

While you personally might not care about JBL Pro monitors, there are many out there who do, and if offered a place at the table (so-to-speak), they would join your community. The larger and more all-encompassing the community becomes, the louder its voice will be. This is but one example.

Consider this... There are many car enthusiast forums around the net. They have become very popular with owners. So much so that GM, Ford, etc. now have full-time employees to monitor them and offer feedback and assistance. This forum has the potential to be the same with JBL.

[antoninus9]

Here's what Audio Karma looks like in the Tapatalk app.

6493164932

[hjames]

Here's what Audio Karma looks like in the Tapatalk app.

6493164932

Yep - but
A) Friends of mine on Audiokarma complain about tapaTalk being unstable there...
B) This is not Audiokarma

[LowPhreak]

antoninus9,

I understand your point of view but if this website turns into some version of a smart phone app, I'd be pretty disappointed and would most likely opt out. I own a basic phone, and have no desire to constantly fiddle with a tiny screen and buttons when I'm out and about. I actually enjoy interacting with the people and environment around me. Imagine that. When I'm home, I access the net through a PC that I built mainly for MMORPG gaming in a tower/server-type case and overclocked the CPU, RAM, and mobo, then is displayed on a 24" screen. Yeah that's right, just a regular ol' enthusiast's Winbox - what a Luddite! Meanwhile, my sense of worth and spare time does not revolve around what anonymous people in cyberspace think of me that I'll never meet. I could not care less.

I can imagine what might happen if Harman got their corporate noses stuck into LH. Don't we have enough of Google, Apple, Microsoft, AOL, Facebook and the rest spying on and collecting and sharing our online data already, every time we click on or type anything, or make a call, or play an online game, or send or receive an e-mail? I think so. And I need another pop-up ad, flashing banner ad, or commercial forced upon me like I need a pair of Klipsches. (now where's that emoticon for the 1-finger salute...?)

Sometimes "progress" is just a catch-all term for another agenda or it can lead to places unintended. So I agree: if it ain't broke, leave it the hell alone.

Seawolf - let's keep the phrases like "snipes, snarks & snopes" to things I can say 3 times in a row quickly. :D

[grumpy]

Perhaps PM Don McRitchie to see if there's needed effort to update the site
or if the providers/maintainers are happy with it's current version/stability...
at least in regard to where applicable expertise might be useful, were you
wanting to contribute, ...which is appreciated.

Change has the ability to anger/frighten people as well as to provide useful
improvements (and sometimes not so useful). For many here, it's a comfortable
place.

[SEAWOLF97]

I understand your point of view but if this website turns into some version of a smart phone app, I'd be pretty disappointed and would most likely opt out. I own a basic phone, and have no desire to constantly fiddle with a tiny screen and buttons when I'm out and about. I actually enjoy interacting with the people and environment around me. Imagine that. When I'm home, I access the net through a PC that I built mainly for MMORPG gaming in a tower/server-type case and overclocked the CPU, RAM, and mobo, then is displayed on a 24" screen. Yeah that's right, just a regular ol' enthusiast's Winbox - what a Luddite! Meanwhile, my sense of worth and spare time does not revolve around what anonymous people in cyberspace think of me that I'll never meet. I could not care less.

If we changed names on that quote , I could have written it. (Only the bold parts apply tho. :o:)

(I have an overclocked quad core tower, 4.5TB spinning storage, w/a 24" screen also ..dislike always having to enlarge a portion of a screen to read it on a mobile device ..replying is even harder)

[antoninus9]

antoninus9,

I understand your point of view but if this website turns into some version of a smart phone app, I'd be pretty disappointed and would most likely opt out.

I can imagine what might happen if Harman got their corporate noses stuck into LH. Don't we have enough of Google, Apple, Microsoft, AOL, Facebook and the rest spying on and collecting and sharing our online data already....

1. This forum would not change at all, but there would be other ways to access it.

2. Google already picks up everything you post here. So, nothing changes on that front either.

I understand how everyone feels about my proposed changes, and will drop the subject. If I want a more versatile site I would have to build it on my server, and I'm probably not dedicated enough to do it. Managing and moderating a forum is not something I would enjoy.

Thank you for your input.

[LowPhreak]

2. Google already picks up everything you post here. So, nothing changes on that front either.


I'm aware of what Google's and other companies' capabilities are, as I mentioned above.

[SEAWOLF97]

I'm aware of what Google's and other companies' capabilities are, as I mentioned above.

usually if you see who is using the forum at most any time, Google Slurp Spider is listed.

[LowPhreak]

As far as I'm concerned, Google and its ilk can kiss my posterior region. :moon: :thmbsup: But antoninus9's idea IMO isn't a bad one necessarily, I'd just hate to see LH go the way of so many other sites that have "updated".

[Mr. Widget]

As far as I'm concerned, Google and its ilk can kiss my posterior region. :moon: :thmbsup: But antoninus9's idea IMO isn't a bad one necessarily, I'd just hate to see LH go the way of so many other sites that have "updated".If I'm understanding his post, he is saying the site would remain vanilla for those of us Luddites who prefer it that way and could be all jazz and visual noise to excite those with the App who choose to go that route.

I certainly have no problem with that, though I doubt anyone will go to the trouble or expense to make it happen.



Widget

[BMWCCA]

If I'm understanding his post, he is saying the site would remain vanilla for those of us Luddites who prefer it that way and could be all jazz and visual noise to excite those with the App who choose to go that route.
Well, that and the update to the main site with RSS feeds of current HAR/JBL news and critical reviews of new JBL products in order to increase our effectiveness in appealing to and controlling the HAR BOD and make LH a force to be reckoned with in making our goals shared by the HAR management team so we can have vintage parts availability off into the next millennium and gain HAR support and participation in this group.
Or something like that . . . :dont-know:

[hjames]

If I'm understanding his post, he is saying the site would remain vanilla for those of us Luddites who prefer it that way and could be all jazz and visual noise to excite those with the App who choose to go that route.

I certainly have no problem with that, though I doubt anyone will go to the trouble or expense to make it happen.

Widget

There are a couple ways to approach contemporary web design.

One is to build a separate mobile template for the folks with smaller screens, and use CSS and javascript to change/downsize images for that crowd.
Effectively building multiple versions of the same site and hope they all are kept in sync.Thats pretty much the old-school take on new design.

The other approach is Responsive web design - you create a site with Mobile as the main focus and (again with CSS and javascripts)
your site scales up or down as needed depending on the users' screens. One design that responds to the end user's screen attributes.

Either way, retooling is needed to achieve that end - it doesn't just happen.

The other stuff - adding in RSS feeds and such, is another task to add to a site-wide redesign.

Since this is effectively a hobby site with minimal recoding in the works, minimal staff, etc
(no offense implied or stated), I don't see any such undertaking in the future.

[antoninus9]

Most modern web design is much easier, thanks to dynamic templates. Your design is dynamically translated for desktop or mobile devices depending on the client browser. RSS feeds are merely plugins with no coding required. I could easily build a new home page with all these features in about 5 hours.

The forum would remain as it is for desktop clients, while mobile clients would be greeted with an alternate page advising them to use Tapatalk, and a click through link to continue on to the desktop version of the forum.

My idea will only work if the forum members are willing to contribute write-ups about restoration projects, tweaks, and reviews of new equipment. There's a lot of information in the forum that could be reformatted for use as content on the main page as well. We could also do interviews with some of the engineers at JBL. This could be done as both a written page, and a podcast.

Mashable.com uses a dynamic template. http://mashable.com Try it on your desktop, then on your phone. Notice how it atomically re-formats and resizes everything.

[hjames]

Most modern web design is much easier, thanks to dynamic templates. Your design is dynamically translated for desktop or mobile devices depending on the client browser. RSS feeds are merely plugins with no coding required. I could easily build a new home page with all these features in about 5 hours.

The forum would remain as it is for desktop clients, while mobile clients would be greeted with an alternate page advising them to use Tapatalk, and a click through link to continue on to the desktop version of the forum.

My idea will only work if the forum members are willing to contribute write-ups about restoration projects, tweeks, and reviews of new equipment. There's a lot of information in the forum that could be reformatted for use as content on the main page as well. We could also do interviews with some of the engineers at JBL. This could be done as both a written page, and a podcast.

Mashable.com uses a dynamic template. http://mashable.com Try it on your desktop, then on your phone. Notice how it atomically re-formats and resizes everything.

But what does that do for the existing Vbulletin software and database the site owners have running?
I don't think they want to switch the whole existing site to some unknown design -
its a webforum, not a blog or news site.

... fwiw, the Mashable site uses exactly the responsive design I spoke of
... although its hardly doing it "atomically" ... try "automatically"

http://alistapart.com/search?keywords=Responsive

[antoninus9]

This forum most likely uses MySQL as a back end to power VBulletin. So, going to a dynamic or responsive design would have no impact at all. From a technology perspective all of this is really simple. We're not running calculations through a high speed interface for a brokerage firm, or astrophysics lab. :D

Also, this technology is far from being "unknown". It's used by millions of sites across the net.

Could it be that all of this FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt) is actually the fears of the existing membership regarding new users joining the forum? You don't want to see it grow beyond what it is now? If that's the case, then no technology can alter the course of things.

[hjames]

This forum most likely uses MySQL as a back end to power VBulletin. So, going to a dynamic or responsive design would have no impact at all. From a technology perspective all of this is really simple. We're not running calculations through a high speed interface for a brokerage firm, or astrophysics lab. :D

Also, this technology is far from being "unknown". It's used by millions of sites across the net.

Could it be that all of this FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt) is actually the fears of the existing membership regarding new users joining the forum? You don't want to see it grow beyond what it is now? If that's the case, then no technology can alter the course of things.

I've worked with Drupal and number of more complex CMS packages -
then again, I'm not trying to prove anything or to sell anything here.
This site is provided as a courtesy from folks who DO manage it and have a busy schedule -

See, its not my circus, not my monkees.

have a nice day

[pos]

Who would implement these changes? :dont-know:
As I understand it the website is already graciously hosted and administered...

[antoninus9]

I've worked with Drupal and number of more complex CMS packages -
then again, I'm not trying to prove anything or to sell anything here.

If this is true, then you were well aware that the technology wasn't "unknown," and that it's been in widespread use for a long time. It seems we all have our own agendas. :)

Let me make my agenda clear, if I haven't already done so. I believe that JBL has an ethical responsibility to support its loyal customers and fans. Throwing them under the bus by discontinuing replacement parts, not only questions the integrity of the company, but builds mistrust among fans and potential customers. There's already grumblings in the Pro Audio community regarding this. As a long time JBL user it would be difficult for me to shell out thousands of dollars on any new speakers because I'm concerned about parts availability. I'm sure many of you are frustrated by the same fears.

This forum has the potential to get the attention of the leadership at JBL, but that may not be the direction the owner or members want to take. All I can offer is my assistance, if you want to move in that direction.

[hjames]

But what does that do for the existing Vbulletin software and database the site owners have running?
I don't think they want to switch the whole existing site to some unknown design -


By "unknown" I meant unknown to the folks who actually manage and administer this site.

I do not have their ear, not they mine ...

VBulletin is already in place and paid for, and that may be fine to them.
We both know there are plenty of other open source or commercial packages available -
I don't know if Mashable or drupal or any other software is something they want to convert to, sort out and manage ...
Its their time and they have been gracious enough to run this site for all who come here -
its NOT A HARMAN/JBL OWNED SITE

A number of folks have tried to explain this to you, yet you keep pounding the drum.

if you want to affect change at JBL/HARMAN, write the Company!!

[antoninus9]

Let's assume for the moment that the forum owner(s?) have no interest in any of this.

1. Do the members of the forum agree that JBL should supply parts?
2. Do the members of the forum feel that JBL is moving in the wrong direction with its consumer products?
3. Do the members of the forum feel that a site should exist to support their needs and concerns?

I can easily build a new site on my server, but I don't want to manage a forum. In other words, do any of you want to moderate, etc? It would only be worth my time, if others feel the same as I do.

If the owner(s) of this site/forum want to do this, then I'm happy to assist. Perhaps others would be too? From my perspective improving this site/forum is the best and easiest choice.

[Mr. Widget]

...if you want to affect change at JBL/HARMAN, write the Company!!I would suggest the best way to get traction on the JBL support crusade is to start a Facebook page or whatever the hell they call it... I'm not a Facebook user but a Facebook presence where millions of people can see your concerns and chime in will get their attention. I am positive that Harman monitors Facebook closely.

Harman is definitely aware of this site, but due to our size I don't think our opinions are important in their decision making process. If we were to grow this site exponentially to the size where does matter to Harman, it would no longer be this site… it would lose the focus that makes it unusual on the web.


Widget

[hjames]

Well, the official JBL Page is here:

https://www.facebook.com/JBL

And there already IS a Vintage JBL Facebook page

https://www.facebook.com/groups/52690477971/

Someone could start a JBL Heritage facebook page easily enough ...

[antoninus9]

If we were to grow this site exponentially to the size where does matter to Harman, it would no longer be this site… it would lose the focus that makes it unusual on the web.


Widget

That's a very real possibility, and something that should be openly discussed. It comes down to what you feel is more important: A small tight-knit community of JBL fans, or a web presence that enables the community to have a voice. There is no right or wrong answer here. It's a matter of what's important to the individual members. I realize that I'm probably in the minority, but in many ways we share common interests such as parts availability. When I started this thread I wrongly assumed that these changes would benefit everyone in the community, but am now beginning to see that while there are benefits, there are also drawbacks.

While Facebook, Twitter, etc. would be a necessary part of a larger strategy, simply adding a Facebook page probably wouldn't get much traction.

[LowPhreak]

fair enough ... how 'bout trying "Lansing High School" 3x ..fast ??

Was j/k there man, since my other post may have come off a bit grumpy to antoninus I wanted to lighten it up a bit. (:

[rusty jefferson]

I'm old, and trying to type this on a smartphone. Neither is a good thing.

I like the idea of advancing the cause the OP is presenting, and also having a more mobile friendly experience. If he/she is willing to work with Don, and Don is willing to update, what's the harm? This all just reminds me I'm overdue for a donation.:)

[Hoerninger]

1. I like the way this forum is performed (, I know by "Don") and there is a decision for a specific software "vBulletin".
This forum is carefully maintained with moderate changes over the years. For me there is no need to use a special app for a handheld whatsoever.

2. The german users of VISATON products have a forum, which is run by vBulletin as well - very clear look witout any gimmicks. This forum is linked within the VISATON site. But I am wondering whether it would be advantageous, if any shareholders would have an influence on Lansing Heritage.
____________
Peter

[BMWCCA]

That's a very real possibility, and something that should be openly discussed. It comes down to what you feel is more important: A small tight-knit community of JBL fans, or a web presence that enables the community to have a voice. There is no right or wrong answer here. It's a matter of what's important to the individual members. I realize that I'm probably in the minority, but in many ways we share common interests such as parts availability. When I started this thread I wrongly assumed that these changes would benefit everyone in the community, but am now beginning to see that while there are benefits, there are also drawbacks.
Why does it have to be an "either/or" proposition? If you want an "activist" site then, by all means, create one. I'd suggest that changing this site to achieve your goals would not be the desire of the members or the owners and moderators. Polling the members won't create a referendum. We are guests here and, simply, those who enjoy the hospitality and assistance visit the site, participate in the dialogue, and contribute funds to pay for the operation costs—because we like what we have!

I'm not saying those here wouldn't participate in an activist, consumerist form of an online JBL group. I am saying it doesn't and shouldn't require this site to change to further such a vision.
:banghead:

[antoninus9]

I'm not the enemy BMWCCA. I'm just a fan of JBL speakers who, like you, wants to continue enjoying my hobby. It's inaccurate to presume my comments are some sort of referendum, when I'm merely trying to understand the level of interest within the community. It's also wrong to assume that this is an "either/or" proposition. It's an idea of what's possible. That you disagree with my idea is clearly understood.

Apparently, "Forum Feedback" should include a warning: "Say anything you want but do not offer any new ideas." :eek:

[antoninus9]

:dont-know:

[antoninus9]

too bad that few will make the connection with your new avatar.

That seems rather insulting regarding the intelligence and capabilities of other members of the forum. I'd venture to guess that they understood quite well.

[BMWCCA]

I'm not the enemy BMWCCA. I'm just a fan of JBL speakers who, like you, wants to continue enjoying my hobby. It's inaccurate to presume my comments are some sort of referendum, when I'm merely trying to understand the level of interest within the community. It's also wrong to assume that this is an "either/or" proposition. It's an idea of what's possible. That you disagree with my idea is clearly understood.

Apparently, "Forum Feedback" should include a warning: "Say anything you want but do not offer any new ideas." :eek:

I didn't say I was against what you propose. I am against turning this community into an activist group whose purpose is to lobby Harman.

You've succeeded in upping your post count by a good factor and so far I think maybe one member has been encouraging in reply. You were implying a form of referendum by asking members what they wanted. So far the support for your ideas hasn't been there. But, to my point, even if it were, this is not your forum or mine. We are guests of the owners and it is their decision to embrace the idea of change, or not. And then there's always the option for you to take your ball to a new playground if you don't get the reception you expected, or wanted.

You gave feedback and you're getting feedback. If you don't like the feedback, well, I'm sorry. :dead_horse:

[antoninus9]

You gave feedback and you're getting feedback. If you don't like the feedback, well, I'm sorry. :dead_horse:

It's not the feedback to my idea that I don't appreciate, it's the unnecessarily hostile attitude. And, don't bother quoting my Luddite comment to justify your actions, because we both know it was directed at you specifically, and not the other members of the forum.

Since, we're having this more forthright discussion, I'd like to take the opportunity to point-out a problem with the logic being used here.

1. This forum is supposedly dedicated to preserving Lansing's work, thus "Heritage"
2. Since the death of Lansing many other engineers, including Greg Timbers, have devoted most of their adult lives to carrying on his vision
3. Now, JBL is tossing all of that out the door, along with all its old fans
4. I recommended we try to remedy this through various technical changes
5. A supposedly "heritage" minded JBL fan, and a few of his buddies, attack me for trying to make a difference

In a word: Hypocrisy.

[1audiohack]

Jeez!!!

How long have the collective we bemoaned the slow demize of service parts for our vintage JBL treasures?
How many posts have there been on that subject alone? And yet, when someone brings up a possible way to give us a voice about it, what happens? Do we openly discuss it? Hell no! We would rather be able to complain about our plight than even discuss any possibility to increase our position.

Most times the ones who complain the loudest do the least to change things. How often do we hear: I hate flippers and scrappers and oh someones got to go get those or save those and how often do these people actually do it themselves?

How many people actually vote the only way corperate America counts votes? With your wallet! When's the last time you bought anything cool from Harman? Why should they give a shit about our 30 year old speakers if we are not interested in ever buying from them now?

I get that this is Lansing Heritage, and I like it here just fine, as is. BUT I am not closed to the possibility that it could be better and if it can, I'm in!

So let me ask this? Why can we not even discuss this? It's like we are going to offend the gods?!? Do you think Don's going to pull the plug if we talk about change?

Barry.

[1audiohack]

You have a decidedly interesting view of the world, yourself, and your place in the world.
I can understand hubris. I just don't find it very appealing.
You are obviously from a far superior race and I believe I hear your planet now calling you home.

64955

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/150x100q90/631/vnz5bt.jpg (http://imageshack.com/f/hjvnz5btj)

That is rude as hell! Why do you think this is acceptable in the sheltered, polite and quaint company of Lansing Heritage that you so love?

[Mr. Widget]

So let me ask this? Why can we not even discuss this? It's like we are going to offend the gods?!? Do you think Don's going to pull the plug if we talk about change?
I don't understand why anyone's offended or why it has gotten so personal.

I would love to see the posters that are spending more energy jabbing at each other than being constructive remove their own offensive posts... as for the topic of getting Harman to listen to a hand full of zealots like us, I am over it. As for improving the site? If someone has the ability and energy... go for it.

Finally... as for offending Don? He last looked at the site 5 days ago. I doubt this thread has hit his radar.

I agree with you Barry... why not have a serious discussion about how we might improve the forum, and if along the way someone finds a way to get to Harman short of gaining a controlling interest in HAR... that could be interesting.



Widget

[Allanvh5150]

I always find it interesting when a thread decays like this, to go back and read who the main antagonists are. It is always the same 3 or 4 people.

:(

[pos]

If the goal is to generate some interest from Harman and obtain a few important things, why not start by opening a petition on change.org?
That is how people do these days :D

Let's list what we would like to obtain, and see if there is a common trend in the community at least.

I thinks many would agree on these ones:
- bring back some NLA recone kits and diaphragms (2108, 2403, etc.)
- existing vintage recone kits long term availability (2235, 2426, etc.)
- TOTL speakers availability everywhere (new blue monitors for japan, K2, etc.)
- TOTL components availability (1501AL-2, 476, etc.)
- TOTL speakers long term support guaranty (recone kits and components replacements)

[Mr. Widget]

Let's list what we would like to obtain, and see if there is a common trend in the community at least.

I thinks many would agree on these ones:
- bring back some NLA recone kits and diaphragms (2108, 2403, etc.)
- existing vintage recone kits long term availability (2235, 2426, etc.)
- TOTL speakers availability everywhere (new blue monitors for japan, K2, etc.)
- TOTL components availability (1501AL-2, 476, etc.)
- TOTL speakers long term support guaranty (recone kits and components replacements)I would simplify it by saying "Return to the level of support that JBL had offered up until about 2005 or so. They used to periodically reintroduce out of production recone kits once demand had built up, and always supported the vast majority of drivers that had been in production for the past 25 years or so. They were arguably better in supporting their legacy products than just about anyone.

As for offering additional drivers for DIY use, that would be a much more difficult to sell to Harman.

1. In doing so it directly competes with their finished goods.
2. It can be dangerous to the brand as most well intentioned DIYers will not get the level of performance from the high end drivers that JBL does.
3. The potential of warranty claims is problematic.

On the subject of getting product in different countries... they seem to be moving in that direction. Did they hear us?


Widget

[1audiohack]

I always find it interesting when a thread decays like this, to go back and read who the main antagonists are. It is always the same 3 or 4 people.

:(


So allow me to be the first to apologize.

I am becoming very intolerant of intolerance. I know that sounds ridiculous but I see no alternative stance when tolerating intolerance allows intolerance to run unchecked.

My best to all;
Barry

[JeffW]

So allow me to be the first to apologize.

I am becoming very intolerant of intolerance. I know that sounds ridiculous but I see no alternative stance when tolerating intolerance allows intolerance to run unchecked.

My best to all;
Barry

Something tells me you aren't one of the 3 or 4.

re Antonious:

As to this board somehow influencing Harman? Hard to say. They did finally recently allow sales of some products in the US that weren't previously available. If I was a betting man, my money would be on input from the bean counters trying to increase market share, not protestations from a handful of enthusiasts. Pure conjecture as I know as much about what goes on in Harman's boardroom as I do what goes on inside a supernova. That's not strictly true. I actually have at least a theoretical understanding of what goes on inside a supernova. Why Harman never originally intended to sell those items here is an even greater cosmic mystery.

Replacement parts for decades old speakers? Sure, that'd be nice. The betting man in me thinks that there are probably more owners of 50 year old Chevrolets than 50 year old JBLs, yet Chevrolet likely doesn't have NOS parts for those, and no amount of enthusiast websites is likely to change their mind on the matter. The problem as I see it is the shortage of acceptable quality aftermarket parts. Plenty of companies to supply those for vintage Chevys - because there are a lot more Chevys to start with.

So build an app, a Facebook page, whatever floats your boat. I personally see no problem, the world goes round and round. I wouldn't count on one thin dime of support from Harman, or any official response from them. Sure this is the "Lansing Heritage" site, we like to wax nostalgic over the good ol' days. But there is no "Lansing Heritage" division of Harman.

Who knows if they even have the tooling to produce those legacy parts, or if they got shipped to the dump when the move to Mexico took place? If the tooling still exists, do the people who knew how to run it still work there? If the answer to either of those questions is "no", then I just don't see those parts ever being available form Harman - ever - regardless of how much noise anybody makes.

Good luck in your quest, I'm all for it!

Signed,

Sancho Panza

;)

[pos]

I think most of these parts were already outsourced, so it might only be a matter or "releasing" the rights and let those companies build those part under their own name, or maybe only realsing the QA and engineering documents that were used to design and validate these parts.
I think this is what Altec/GPA did.

For example Meterion has been building the 2435HPL diaphragms from the start, and could probably easily offer replacement parts if JBL decided to stop their production.
Of course as time goes by, NLA kits will be harder and harder to bring back into production...