any one know the production numbers of original walnut finish jbl 4341's

[ceelo456]

hey guys,
i have a matched pair of original walnut finish jbl 4341; curious does anyone know how many of these were made by jbl?
thanks

[ceelo456]

my serial numbers are 1141* and 1141*; they are 2 digits apart.

[Horn Fanatic]

hey guys,
i have a matched pair of original walnut finish jbl 4341; curious does anyone know how many of these were made by jbl?
thanks

What do you mean by, "matched pair"? Have all the components been tested to determine if they share the same exact parameters? Is the veneer on both cabinets book matched or identical?

How can the serial numbers be two digits apart, if they share the same serial number? Even consecutive serial numbers is not an indication that the systems are a "matched pair". All it means is that they were numbered consecutively after they came off the line.

[hjames]

How can the serial numbers be two digits apart, if they share the same serial number?

Because he is not showing you the final DIGIT, represented by the *

Knowing the internet, if he posted the complete S/N including the final digits,
some fool would stamp those digits on a clone pair and start claiming THEY were original!

"my serial numbers are 1141* and 1141*; they are 2 digits apart."

Give it a rest, Fanatic ...
give a bit of respect to newer members here.

[ceelo456]

Hello "hornfanatic". Well that was quite an interrogation:) Serial numbers are two digits apart. I didn't list them, because as the eloquent hjames stated (thanks for having my back heather:), people should know better than to list full serial numbers because of scammers and cloners all over the place. As far as your questions...this pair of 4341 were purchased new by the original owner and have lived in the same residence for close to four decades and have been perfectly cared for.And yes, I am new to the forum but have been recording and mixing records using a wide array of vintage analog tube recording equipment in my recording studio for many years. All the best. Ps does anyone know how many 4341 were made?

[BMWCCA]

I didn't list them, because as the eloquent hjames stated (thanks for having my back sir), people should know better than to list full serial numbers because of scammers and cloners all over the place.

As you can see, "hjames" is: Heather [Senorita member] :)

[ceelo456]

aaaaww...post edited and corrected. thx again!
As you can see, "hjames" is: Heather [Senorita member] :)

[Horn Fanatic]

Hello "hornfanatic". Well that was quite an interrogation:) Serial numbers are two digits apart. I didn't list them, because as the eloquent hjames stated (thanks for having my back heather:), people should know better than to list full serial numbers because of scammers and cloners all over the place. As far as your questions...this pair of 4341 were purchased new by the original owner and have lived in the same residence for close to four decades and have been perfectly cared for.And yes, I am new to the forum but have been recording and mixing records using a wide array of vintage analog tube recording equipment in my recording studio for many years. All the best. Ps does anyone know how many 4341 were made?

All I asked was a simple question. You claim that your cabinets are a "matched pair". All I ask is what criteria did you use to determine they are a "matched pair". I see that term bandied about all over Ebay, and have inquired many times as to how the claim is determined. I have never gotten a reply. Why? Because the seller can't back up the claim. I've actually seen auctions for "matched pair" ALTEC 511 horns with serial numbers miles apart. What the heck does that mean? Frankly, unless it can actually be proven, the term, "matched pair" is a term that has been beat to death and only used to embellish a sale.

You may not like the question, but it's a valid question nonetheless. Whether you're a new member, or an old member to the forum should make no difference.

[JeffW]

He posted a pic of them side by side, so he can determine if the veneer/paint is the same, and unless they only made one unit every 10 years or so, the near-consecutive serial numbers should indicate they were likely made in the same production run. I'd be inclined to agree with matched, or closely matched.

What would your criteria for "matched" be? Short of a letter of authentication from the guy who assembled them (has anybody ever seen such a thing?), near-consecutive serial numbers is probably as close as anyone could get. My 250Ti pair are mirrored and a couple of serial numbers apart, but I have heard that this is not uncommon since they might build lefts and rights in batches or something. Never really bothered me. I'll be sure and not describe them as "matched" should I sell them.

[Horn Fanatic]

He posted a pic of them side by side, so he can determine if the veneer/paint is the same, and unless they only made one unit every 10 years or so, the near-consecutive serial numbers should indicate they were likely made in the same production run. I'd be inclined to agree with matched, or closely matched.

What would your criteria for "matched" be? Short of a letter of authentication from the guy who assembled them (has anybody ever seen such a thing?), near-consecutive serial numbers is probably as close as anyone could get. My 250Ti pair are mirrored and a couple of serial numbers apart, but I have heard that this is not uncommon since they might build lefts and rights in batches or something. Never really bothered me. I'll be sure and not describe them as "matched" should I sell them.

I consider a "matched pair" to be electrically matched. That means identical, or as close as feasible, Thiele-Small paramaters, not the same veneer and model number. Not consecutive serial numbers. The enclosures I manufacture are matched only by grain, as in book matched. That would be my only claim to matched speakers. I wish folks would qualify their claims to "matched pair", rather than leave buyers and readers to interpret nebulous claims. Again, the term, "matched pair" is being over used and abused.

BTW - I don't appreciate snarky replies.

[LowPhreak]

Fanatic is right - consecutive serial #'s and "matched pair" doesn't necessarily indicate the same thing. Did JBL bother to match drivers and/or veneers on 43xx's?

Similar to a lot of manufacturer's published efficiency specs, where they give the most optimistic values often from a narrow range in the frequency response that has highest efficiency on a particular speaker, but if measured full range the actual efficiency can be a fair amount lower. JBL did this with the Studio 580 (90dB > 87dB) and 590 (92dB > 90dB).

[Horn Fanatic]

Fanatic is right - consecutive serial #'s and "matched pair" doesn't necessarily indicate the same thing. Did JBL bother to match drivers and/or veneers on 43xx's?

Similar to a lot of manufacturer's published efficiency specs, where they give the most optimistic values often from a narrow range in the frequency response that has highest efficiency on a particular speaker, but if measured full range the actual efficiency can be a fair amount lower. JBL did this with the Studio 580 (90dB > 87dB) and 590 (92dB > 90dB).

Thank you, to someone who understands my question. When dealing with studio monitors it would be an advantage to know if both speakers are performing equally. If the human ear can detect a difference of 1dB, then a spread of 5dB between 87dB and 92dB would be quite noticeable.

[hjames]

It would be - but those are 1970 era StudioMonitors.
The 4341 was JBL's 1st generation 4 way monitors ...
They should be judged by the standards of their time,
not some standards you might demand or expect today.

I don't recall the seller offering a polar plot or spectrum chart
of the performance of these speakers.

I suppose all of that would depend on the asking price?




Thank you, to someone who understands my question.
When dealing with studio monitors it would be an advantage to know if both speakers are performing equally.
If the human ear can detect a difference of 1dB, then a spread of 5dB between 87dB and 92dB would be quite noticeable.

[LowPhreak]

Thank you, to someone who understands my question. When dealing with studio monitors it would be an advantage to know if both speakers are performing equally. If the human ear can detect a difference of 1dB, then a spread of 5dB between 87dB and 92dB would be quite noticeable.

I meant to say that with the 580, JBL specs efficiency at 90dB/1w/1m, but independent measurements show them to be 87dB; the 590's they spec at 92dB (at 8kHz) but are really 90dB overall/full range. Just as an example of (to put it kindly) the "optimistic" descriptions we often see.

When someone says "matched pair", to me it should mean as you said, L vs. R driver matching to some close range tolerance, i.e., audio performance not aesthetics. It's easy enough to distinguish that from veneer matching to call it "book matched", "matched veneer", "matched cabinets", or such.

[BMWCCA]

When someone says "matched pair", to me it should mean as you said, L vs. R driver matching to some close range tolerance, i.e., audio performance not aesthetics.

My 250ti pair are still in their boxes which have a large stamp on them that reads:

MATCHED PAIR
Do Not Separate

Can I simply restate that descriptor, or do I have to perform measurements first? :dont-know:

;)

[JeffW]

I consider a "matched pair" to be electrically matched. That means identical, or as close as feasible, Thiele-Small paramaters, not the same veneer and model number. Not consecutive serial numbers. The enclosures I manufacture are matched only by grain, as in book matched. That would be my only claim to matched speakers. I wish folks would qualify their claims to "matched pair", rather than leave buyers and readers to interpret nebulous claims. Again, the term, "matched pair" is being over used and abused.

BTW - I don't appreciate snarky replies.

Is the guy a seller? I thought he wast just looking for info.

Then it gets confusing:


I consider a "matched pair" to be electrically matched

Fair enough.


The enclosures I manufacture are matched only by grain, as in book matched. That would be my only claim to matched speakers.

And that's what I mentioned the OP appeared to have, only to be shot down. So by your own definition, your matched speakers aren't matched speakers.

Even if the TS parameters were dead nuts on when his pair left the factory, I wouldn't expect speakers that old to still have identical TS on all the drivers decades later - even if none of the drivers had ever been serviced, and especially if any HAD been serviced.

Having identical cabinets would be more important to me, I'd expect drivers that old to either need work or be slightly out of spec.

[LowPhreak]

Measurements plox! ;)

[ceelo456]

Guys I appreciate all the attention and discussion on matched pair verse not a matched pair. But is it possible for someone to chime in on the production numbers jbl did on the 4341 speakers? Just trying to see how many were made. Thanks again. I love this thread!

[DavidF]

Guys I appreciate all the attention and discussion on matched pair verse not a matched pair. But is it possible for someone to chime in on the production numbers jbl did on the 4341 speakers? Just trying to see how many were made. Thanks again. I love this thread!


Yeah, that's a pretty obscure number to come up with. I haven't seen much in the way of production numbers mentioned around here.

[Don C]

I don't think anyone but JBL themselves could answer, and maybe not even them. But there is data in the registry here.
It shows 10 entries with a lowest serial number of 10009 and the highest serial number is 11564 So the numbers probably started with 10000, and there were probably more than 782 pairs made.


Guys I appreciate all the attention and discussion on matched pair verse not a matched pair. But is it possible for someone to chime in on the production numbers jbl did on the 4341 speakers? Just trying to see how many were made. Thanks again. I love this thread!