My JBL 4355 build

[.:hb:.]

Just admiring Challenger604's beautiful 4355 project over at the "4355 Monitor plans" thread I thought it's time to give you a glimpse at my 4355 version. It is, of course, not finished yet (the cabinet is lacking surface treatment) but this is going to happen soon.
The cabinets are made of 25/20 mm beech ply, which is a really great material in terms of strength. But building such a beast from stuff that hard and heavy isn't exactly a piece of cake. But birch ply or MDF really can't compete with this, so I am finally happy after a lot of bruises and scratches ;).

I've made only minor changes to the original plans, for example there is now a support for the 2441 that really deserves the name and not that lousy sheet metal angle supporting the horn, not the driver.

Sourcing the drivers wasn't that easy here in Germany and so I ended up buying 2202, 2441, and 2405 in the US which didn't make things exactly cheaper, but everything turned out to be decent quality stuff, so I am fine with that.
The woofers began their lives as E140 and got freshly reconed to 2235H. At least that's what I thought, In fact the additional mass rings got folded, so I ended up with 2234H with a slightly stronger motor (due to the stronger magnetisation of the E140 magnets). That didn't turn out to be a real problem. With the original 28 Hz cabinet alignment, the system is tuned a little bit too low, which can be easily corrected with a bass equalizer.

[.:hb:.]

Finding the right colour for the baffle ended up with "RAL5007 brillantblau". The RAL chart is a standard colour code very common here in Germany - very useful, if you know the number, you can get (more or less) the same tone whereever you ask.

As for cabinet dampening, I didn't use the usual fiberglass stuff. It's not very effective and a pain in the a... to work with. I used a suitable amount of dirt cheap Ikea piilows, which is nothing but polyester wadding, exaxtly what we want here. Measurements showed tthe amount of absorbtion is just right.

The speakers made their first public appearance on last autumn's "European Triode Festival" in Berlin and did a really nice job. We had lots of amps and active crossovers to try, with some really unexpected results.

The actual state of things is to be seen on the last picture. I had to dye the diaphragms to black, otherwise I would have ended up with too many different tones.

So much for now, I hope you like what you see.

[BMWCCA]

Wow!!

Strong work. The build quality appears to be superb. Ikea pillows? Who'd have though of that. I'll have to remember it.

They look great just as they are and the blue color seems perfect on my monitor.

Thanks for sharing.

Welcome to Lansing Heritage!

[JeffW]

Great build! I bet there's not many of those in Germany.

Is that last pic at the Triode Fest? Looks like a whole lot of speakers of different types on hand.

[.:hb:.]

That last pic is taken in an old gym which serves us as measuring space. The second last is from ETF; you can find more impressions here: http://www.holgerbarske.com/etf2014/index.html

[.:hb:.]

Just starting to mount the acoustic lenses in front of the 2441s.
Does anyone know if the hook tape on the speaker front for fixing those is stapled or do we rely on the adhesive?

[Mannermusic]

Just starting to mount the acoustic lenses in front of the 2441s.
Does anyone know if the hook tape on the speaker front for fixing those is stapled or do we rely on the adhesive?

The adhesive alone has been adequate in my experience. Have done two or three horns. A staple would tend to warp the surface as well - not good. Can always add staples if all else fails. Mine have been in service approx 10 years to date.

[1audiohack]

My 4350's have staples.

Barry.

[tinpan]

Let me wipe the drool off my keyboard

[martin2395]

Hello Holger,
I recently saw your article on the 4355 in the latest Klang+Ton and it's nice to see the constructor here on Lansing Heritage too! :)

I agree that sourcing vintage JBL drivers in western Europe can be a major pain, especially the compression drivers.
Most of them I saw were just bricks of rust with a JBL badge attached.

Can you tell if the Edding 100 you used to dye the cones has a slightly purple glow in direct sunlight?
I dyed my 2235H and 2123H with deskjet printer ink and the cones are deep black now but still have a bit of a purple glow in the sunlight, though.
That's the main reason I'm considering giving them another coat but this time with the Edding ink.

[.:hb:.]

Can you tell if the Edding 100 you used to dye the cones has a slightly purple glow in direct sunlight?Not much, but it ideed has. Keeping the coating as thin as possible definitely helps. Someone commenting on my blog has good results applying the edding ink with an airbrush gun, seems like a good idea.

[.:hb:.]

Made some progress. Adding the 2308 definitely helps for short listening distances. Got the L-pads connected, lowering the 2441's output was a good idea. Until my tube crossover is finished, I am using a simple Monacor MCX-2000 for the active filter part; I am surprised how well it does.
As for amplification, I am using a Bryston 4BSST² for the woofers and an Accuphase A-46 does the rest. I am really happy with the sound, but there's so much to try, tons of knobs to turn. This will keep me going for a while - exactly what I wanted http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/biggrin.gif.
64750

[Krunchy]

Very very! nice :applaud: Yep, you got plenty of knob turning time to keep you busy for a long while....Enjoy! :)

[Mannermusic]

Yes, Bravo! And when you get the itch (it never completely dies), that configuration is a natural for a big horn on top. Endless "knobs" to twiddle! Mike :applaud:

[pos]

Nice system!
And I like your stands :D

Any plan to use a digital crossover unit?

[.:hb:.]

Any plan to use a digital crossover unit?
Absolutely not. 90 percent of my music comes from a turntable, and I like to keep things analog. And please let's skip the "But most of your vinyl is derived from digital material" discussion ;).
If I'd feel the need to make substantial changes to the filtering, I'd be able to do that in the analog domain. But at the moment I don't feel the need to. That speaker just sounds exactly as wrong as I like it to :D.

[pos]

That speaker just sounds exactly as wrong as I like it to :D.
way to go :thmbsup:

[martin2395]

@hb,

You should try the Bryston 10B crossover, I've had a Driverack PA2, DCX2496, UREI 5235, and a fully hot rodded BSS FDS-360 and the Bryston really is in another leagure.
The quality of your active xo has a major impact on the horn and the supertweeter.
Those beauties deserve the best :)

[.:hb:.]

The Bryston is next on my agenda. I know someone who owns one and is hopefully willing to borrow it for a few days.

[martin2395]

Sounds like a plan!

It was the first active crossover I bought that I couldn't actually hear whether it affected the sound quality or not.

[Ralf]

Great build! I bet there's not many of those in Germany.

Is that last pic at the Triode Fest? Looks like a whole lot of speakers of different types on hand.

There is already the next pair in the queue...I picked up all chassis needed for this project. The four 2235A are back now from remagnetizing, two of them still have to be repaired.
Today I bought a Weeke Optimat BP 12, a CNC wood worker machine...the project can be started soon...:banghead:

Cheers
Ralf

[JeffW]

Good deal! Glad to see these builds popping up, look forward to hearing about yours.

[Mr. Widget]

Today I bought a Weeke Optimat BP 12, a CNC wood worker machine...the project can be started soon.I just did a web search. That is one hell of a machine! Is this for your hobby or business? With a machine like that you could definitely crank out the speakers. Does it have three axis capability?


Widget

[ivica]

There is already the next pair in the queue...I picked up all chassis needed for this project. The four 2235A are back now from remagnetizing, two of them still have to be repaired.
Today I bought a Weeke Optimat BP 12, a CNC wood worker machine...the project can be started soon...:banghead:

Cheers
Ralf

Hi Ralf,

That is for the first time to hear that 2235A ever exist. On the other thing, to be re-magnetized....may be talking about 2231A....

ivica

[.:hb:.]

Yes, I was also wondering... Never heard of the necessity to re-magetize a ferrite motor.

[martin2395]

Sounds like A 2231A chassis with 2235H cone for me :)

[Guido]

That is for the first time to hear that 2235A ever exist. ivica

Come on boys!
.... Martin was faster but ....

"2235" stands for C8R2235 (Original of course). We do not make compromise here ;)
"A" stands for Alnico core, thus the need for re-magnetize. In this case its a K140 core.

And
No, the K140 is -unlike the E140- not to strong for the C8R2235 kit. It is a substitude for the 2235 core and shows exactly 1,20T after remagnetize.

Yes, the 2 unfinished woofers lying around here and waiting for me to FINALLY get them done.

[Ralf]

I just did a web search. That is one hell of a machine! Is this for your hobby or business? With a machine like that you could definitely crank out the speakers. Does it have three axis capability?


Widget

It is just for fun...this is a machine owned by a friend of me who has a local wood worker factory. I helped him in the past to keep the machine up and running. Some weeks ago there was a problem with two broken coolers which caused an overheating of the controller CPU. He could not wait until a used part is available on the net and he decided to order a new machine. In the meanwhile we got a spare part, the machine is up and running again but he has no room for a second one. This was my chance to get this big iron for small money...
and yes, it is a three axis CNC with tool changer and all what is needed to build lots of speakers in the future...:bouncy:

Cheers
Ralf

[.:hb:.]

Whatever you do - just don't open a speaker company. There are far too many out there, and all of them want to become rich from the German market. Hint: Doesn't work... ;)

[ivica]

Come on boys!
.... Martin was faster but ....

"2235" stands for C8R2235 (Original of course). We do not make compromise here ;)
"A" stands for Alnico core, thus the need for re-magnetize. In this case its a K140 core.

And
No, the K140 is -unlike the E140- not to strong for the C8R2235 kit. It is a substitute for the 2235 core and shows exactly 1,20T after re-magnetized.

Yes, the 2 unfinished woofers lying around here and waiting for me to FINALLY get them done.

Hi Guido,

Now everything is clear, so it is K140 'basket' with C8r2235 recone kit used. Are You planning to use mass-ring or not.
Anyhow , due to AlNiCo magnet applied, power 'overload' has to be prevented.

regards
ivica

[Guido]

Whatever you do - just don't open a speaker company. There are far too many out there, and all of them want to become rich from the German market. Hint: Doesn't work... ;)

You are so right. In Germany sure NOT!

[Guido]

Are You planning to use mass-ring or not.ivica


As Ralf is building a 4355 we need 2235 woofers and so we use the massring.

[ivica]

It is just for fun...this is a machine owned by a friend of me who has a local wood worker factory. I helped him in the past to keep the machine up and running. Some weeks ago there was a problem with two broken coolers which caused an overheating of the controller CPU. He could not wait until a used part is available on the net and he decided to order a new machine. In the meanwhile we got a spare part, the machine is up and running again but he has no room for a second one. This was my chance to get this big iron for small money...
and yes, it is a three axis CNC with tool changer and all what is needed to build lots of speakers in the future...:bouncy:

Cheers
Ralf

Hi Ralf,

Nice to see that the 'Horn-Production" can start.
Well, for the beginning: a "Yuichi A290" for the beginning, as it would 'perfectly matched' with 4355 (instead of 2311+2308) and 2441/45/56/50 VHF drivers.

regards
ivica

[martin2395]

Whatever you do - just don't open a speaker company. There are far too many out there, and all of them want to become rich from the German market. Hint: Doesn't work... ;)

What about CNC work? Let's say a short production run of 10 sets of 4344, 4345 or even 4355 cabinets?

I'm sure they would sell quickly all over the world if the price is right, I'd even like a pair myself as I'm only missing a pair of 2235H and 2202H.

[Ralf]

Hi Ralf,

Nice to see that the 'Horn-Production" can start.
Well, for the beginning: a "Yuichi A290" for the beginning, as it would 'perfectly matched' with 4355 (instead of 2311+2308) and 2441/45/56/50 VHF drivers.

regards
ivica

Hi Ivica,

what is the advantage of this horn compairing with the original set? I wanted to use the 2311/2308 because I have already a pair lying around here... :confused:

Cheers
Ralf

[Ralf]

What about CNC work? Let's say a short production run of 10 sets of 4344, 4345 or even 4355 cabinets?

I'm sure they would sell quickly all over the world if the price is right, I'd even like a pair myself as I'm only missing a pair of 2235H and 2202H.

I only want to build my own pair of 4355 which has to be finished first...if the CNC programs are available and there is really any interest for a kit then I maybe or not will think about it...

The problem with this big ones is the WAF...most of them do not want to have cabinets like this in their living room...this means not much of this sets would be sold.
Just go to your wife and ask her what she is thinking about this cabinets which are maybe bigger than her wardrobe...don`t forget to crouch down after you asked :-)
I had already discussions...I additionally have to build a hall of hell for my speaker collection to be able to enjoy some nightly music sessions together with my friends and a lot of beer...such speakers are costly...just think about if you really want that :cheers:

[ivica]

Hi Ivica,

what is the advantage of this horn compairing with the original set? I wanted to use the 2311/2308 because I have already a pair lying around here... :confused:

Cheers
Ralf
Hi Ralf,
I have 2311 abd 2308 to, and a couples of 2441,2446,2450 2inch drivers, and listening some of them in 4333 diy boxes, I believe that longer ,larger horn like A290,would be more "musical "and natural, that some of the forum members can confirm. Owing to your CNC fortune, nice wooden horns would be "a must"
Such type of horn does not need any more compensation then 2311 2308 (having almost perfect flar FR) up to 10kHz..
On quite large box as 4355 such large horn (about 66cm wide) would be almost easy to be installed.

You are right thar 4355 are very very large boxes, but their sound efficieny is very very respectable.
I can only imagine that dual 2245 would override 4355 bass strength , for sure in almost twice larger box.
On my taste, I prefer even single 2245 then dual 2235. I wonder, my be dual 2231A would be
comparativ to 2245.
Especally the human voice reproduction of 2202 ,For Me, is something unforgetable.
The other large problem about such project wuold be the availability of the drivers in good conditions
Not to mention the prices if the are in original condition

proper ultra low noise amps would be a problem to, the sensitivity is about 100dB 1m 1W.

best luck in your project
regards
ivica

[gibber]

...wife and ask her what she is thinking about this cabinets which are maybe bigger than her wardrobe...I had already discussions...

Consider yourself lucky, Ralf

Not many wives around with wardrobes smaller than a 4355 ;)

[Challenger604]

Finding the right colour for the baffle ended up with "RAL5007 brillantblau". The RAL chart is a standard colour code very common here in Germany - very useful, if you know the number, you can get (more or less) the same tone whereever you ask.

As for cabinet dampening, I didn't use the usual fiberglass stuff. It's not very effective and a pain in the a... to work with. I used a suitable amount of dirt cheap Ikea piilows, which is nothing but polyester wadding, exaxtly what we want here. Measurements showed tthe amount of absorbtion is just right.

The speakers made their first public appearance on last autumn's "European Triode Festival" in Berlin and did a really nice job. We had lots of amps and active crossovers to try, with some really unexpected results.

The actual state of things is to be seen on the last picture. I had to dye the diaphragms to black, otherwise I would have ended up with too many different tones.

So much for now, I hope you like what you see.

Did you finish your trims around? I saw the work to take the base off and routered the front. Just wanted to see the result!
Will you veneer them?
Christophe

[focalguy]

Challenger604 did a great job!.. only JBL 4350,55 owners can truly appreciate the sheer presence and sound of these.. I had no idea they would sound this real... Adele's HELLO sounds truly amazing. The bottom end is astounding.. don't need no stinking subwoofers here! unless your crazy like me.. added 2 Velodyne HGS-15's






Just admiring Challenger604's beautiful 4355 project over at the "4355 Monitor plans" thread I thought it's time to give you a glimpse at my 4355 version. It is, of course, not finished yet (the cabinet is lacking surface treatment) but this is going to happen soon.
The cabinets are made of 25/20 mm beech ply, which is a really great material in terms of strength. But building such a beast from stuff that hard and heavy isn't exactly a piece of cake. But birch ply or MDF really can't compete with this, so I am finally happy after a lot of bruises and scratches ;).

I've made only minor changes to the original plans, for example there is now a support for the 2441 that really deserves the name and not that lousy sheet metal angle supporting the horn, not the driver.

Sourcing the drivers wasn't that easy here in Germany and so I ended up buying 2202, 2441, and 2405 in the US which didn't make things exactly cheaper, but everything turned out to be decent quality stuff, so I am fine with that.
The woofers began their lives as E140 and got freshly reconed to 2235H. At least that's what I thought, In fact the additional mass rings got folded, so I ended up with 2234H with a slightly stronger motor (due to the stronger magnetisation of the E140 magnets). That didn't turn out to be a real problem. With the original 28 Hz cabinet alignment, the system is tuned a little bit too low, which can be easily corrected with a bass equalizer.

[Challenger604]

Challenger604 did a great job!.. only JBL 4350,55 owners can truly appreciate the sheer presence and sound of these.. I had no idea they would sound this real... Adele's HELLO sounds truly amazing. The bottom end is astounding.. don't need no stinking subwoofers here! unless your crazy like me.. added 2 Velodyne HGS-15's

Thank you John! Some are not aware! The 4355's are unbelievable!
Cheers!
Christophe

[Altec Best]

Absolutely not. 90 percent of my music comes from a turntable, and I like to keep things analog. And please let's skip the "But most of your vinyl is derived from digital material" discussion ;).
If I'd feel the need to make substantial changes to the filtering, I'd be able to do that in the analog domain. But at the moment I don't feel the need to. That speaker just sounds exactly as wrong as I like it to :D.

+1 on that ! :D :applaud: My sentiments exactly !

BTW- Very nice build ! Congrats on the beautiful job !

[.:hb:.]

Just to let you guys know how my 4355 story proceeded: They finally went to my new home (in fact, I moved just to find a suitable place for those speakers ;)), and I am getting there. Already very pleased with the sound, there's some room acoustics issues to take care of right now.
70533

[pos]

Nice setup!
I like those tilted shelves!

[Amnes]

Nice setup!
I like those tilted shelves!

Nice indeed!

I thunk those shelves were tilted from a wide lens but after much in depth studying someone indeed must have purposefully tilted those kallax racks.

[pos]

Or maybe they are flat and the floor is tilted :hmm:

[berga12]

Hi hb, i copy paste your driver support :) thanks for inspiring me with your build.

you painted the outside in silver?

[.:hb:.]

Those Kallax Shelves are indeed tilted intenionally :). But there's a little mistake there - it would have been better to tilt them the other way around.
Side and top walls of the 4355 are treated with a light grey wax.

[Lee in Montreal]

Nice setup!
I like those tilted shelves!

Or could it be the floor is that uneven ? :eek:

[pos]

But there's a little mistake there - it would have been better to tilt them the other way around.Would it be to make the discs and books stand on the left side?

[.:hb:.]

Yes. When a vinyl record sleeve stands upright, the cover side is on the right. If those shelves would be tilted to the left, the records wold be too, and the cover side would be the one to look at.
Missed that one prior to the assembly :banghead:.

[Challenger604]

Any close up of the speakers available?
I'm very curious to see it!
C

[berga12]

Nobody of You plan to build grills?
i have to do it, with a child running around i can't mount the cones without grill...

[lakebilly]

I recently aquired a very nice set of 4355 clones. The builder did not do anything with the front, just unfinished wood. What gives the fronts that trademark blue color? Is it paint or fabric or what? I would have no clue where I might be able to see a real pair of these.

Thanks!

[berga12]

I recently aquired a very nice set of 4355 clones. The builder did not do anything with the front, just unfinished wood. What gives the fronts that trademark blue color? Is it paint or fabric or what? I would have no clue where I might be able to see a real pair of these.

Thanks!

Hi, the original are Painted (primer+paint with foam roller)

if you search there are many post with color trials to get the original BLue from the RAL codes, additionally the blue has change a little time by time from JBL, but you can go really close to that one intended.

[robertg]

This works also.

85814

[robertg]

Here's an actual picture of baritones blue. I used automotive rock guard and covered with a simulated stone paint from Home Depot. I just rolled the blue over it.

85815[/ATTACH[ATTACH]85817

[Mr. Widget]

FWIW: There are several factory JBL blue baffle colors. The ‘70s 43XX monitors were much lighter and had a bit more chroma (brighter blue, not grayish or pastel) than the more recent versions of JBL blue.


Widget