UREI 813C Monitors - tell me more!

[hjames]

Heard a pair of these at a listening party over the weekend and I was QUITE impressed
with the sound and the dynamics of the system! They look big and heavy -
but were amazingly efficient 101db!) and played quite loud with a low power tube amp!

Apparently they are a 2 1/2 way system?
There is a helper woofer, and the concentric driver -
a woofer with a blue foam-edged thats got a 2425 driver behind it.

I gather the "concentric driver" is an 801c
and the other "helper woofer" is a 2215H.

I found brochures for them here:
http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/vintage (http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/vintage jbl-urei electronics/urei-813.pdf) jbl-urei electronics/urei-813.pdf (http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/vintage jbl-urei electronics/urei-813.pdf)

and here:
http://thehistoryofrecording.com/Manuals/UREI/UREI_811C-813C-815C_Manuals.pdf

[louped garouv]

ive not heard the larger incarnations, but i am also impressed with the smaller 809A units, given thier size, performance is great

my understanding is that they were basically made to compete with the Altec monitors of the same ilk...

[rusty jefferson]

I hope some folks with first hand knowledge of these speakers can contribute to this thread. They are very interesting, and there is really not much information on the web that I've come across.

My first exposure to them was at Sigma Sound Studios in Philadelphia back in the mid to late '70s. I believe the photo (from Sigma) is of the 813a, with the Altec 604 concentric driver. All of the control rooms at Sigma used (I believe there were 3 studios at this location, and 2 at another across town) the 813. They all were quite "dead" utilizing the 12'x12"x1-1/2" acoustic tile anyone who was in elementary school in the '60s would recognize from the auditorium. It covered the walls down to chair height, and ceilings. The doors into the control rooms were double (like entering a darkroom) and gasketed. The UREIs were capable of pressurizing these control rooms to the point of nausea. Bass so forceful, it could make you queasy.

The sound at Sigma was anything but "neutral". In fact, the control rooms were "tuned" using UREI Graphic EQ to enhance the music primarily being recorded there, "Philly Soul", or TSOP, "The Sound of Philly" (which was of course also a band), and Disco. Listen to records recorded at Sigma in that era, and you will undoubtedly recognize the "house" sound. The monitors were not soffit mounted in any of the control rooms. They were mounted with brackets that passed through the control room ceiling and were attached directly to the building structure.

As I recall, they used in house modified Crown amplifiers, but I don't remember what model(s).

Here are some associated links, not really about the UREI, but the studio and the sound:

http://arpjournal.com/1834/capturing-that-philadelphia-sound-a-technical-exploration-of-sigma-sound-studios/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigma_Sound_Studios
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_soul


64090

[Rapidan]

Hi Heather, long time no see!

Those 813's were completely ubiquitous in larger control rooms during the late 70's and all through the 80's. You'll get different opinions as to whether the pre-JBL Altec loaded ones, or the later JBL loaded versions are better. I'd go with later. The real gimmick was the crossover, a "time-aligned" unit for which many claims were made. Whether it was significant or not, who knows. The blue foam is said to reduce reflection inside the horn throat, and is a Urei trademark.

I also own a pair of 809A's, driven by a Fisher X100-3. Very impressive system with an overall sound similar to 813's, but a lot less deep bass. They came from our mutual friend.

The JBL Monitor paper sheds pretty good light on these: http://www.cieri.net/Documenti/JBL/Technical%20Notes/JBL%20Technical%20Note%20-%20Vol.1,%20No.15.pdf

[Dave M]

I got 813C (full JBL version) from a closing personal studio a few years back, then I replaced the foam edge of the woofers, then replaced all the dead electrolytic caps (horrible sounding) with film caps. These speakers sound really good, I really like them. Bass is deep, but not punchy, probably due to weak amplifier and placement (they supposed to be soffit mounded).

I also own JBL 4425 (small version of 4430 / 4435 studio monitor), so I have done some comparison before. Interestingly, I had exactly the same impression that JBL tech paper says: "Some engineers subjectively describe the imaging of the Time Align as existingin front of the enclosures, while the Bi-Radials seem toplace the image in perspective behind the plane of theenclosures. ".

I would say 813C projects vivid image in front of the speakers, while 4425 sounds more laid-back. Of course their size is completely different, so many things are much better with 813C, though. It would be interesting if someone would compare properly restored 813C with 4430 / 4435.

[hjames]

After my recently listening adventure,
I have a vision of something like the 813 -
with the 15 coaxial on top but with
a 2245 as the supplemental woofer ...



I got 813C (full JBL version) from a closing personal studio a few years back, then I replaced the foam edge of the woofers, then replaced all the dead electrolytic caps (horrible sounding) with film caps. These speakers sound really good, I really like them. Bass is deep, but not punchy, probably due to weak amplifier and placement (they supposed to be soffit mounded).

I also own JBL 4425 (small version of 4430 / 4435 studio monitor), so I have done some comparison before. Interestingly, I had exactly the same impression that JBL tech paper says: "Some engineers subjectively describe the imaging of the Time Align as existingin front of the enclosures, while the Bi-Radials seem toplace the image in perspective behind the plane of theenclosures. ".

I would say 813C projects vivid image in front of the speakers, while 4425 sounds more laid-back. Of course their size is completely different, so many things are much better with 813C, though. It would be interesting if someone would compare properly restored 813C with 4430 / 4435.

[Dave M]

After my recently listening adventure,
I have a vision of something like the 813 -
with the 15 coaxial on top but with
a 2245 as the supplemental woofer ...

It would be great.
How about bi-amping, like digital amp for 2245, tube for coax?

I personally think Urei monitors are somewhat underrated compare to the other vintage Altec or JBL. The reasons are probably: they are neither pure Altec 604 nor pure JBL, lack of information about them, horrible sounding original network (too many "aged" electrolytic caps), plastic horn with strange blue foam packaging material permanently attached (lol), the black cabinets look like Marshall stack (extremely low WAF!) etc.

[hjames]

Add "they are bloody heavy" to the mix -
apparently UREI went to great pains to make the cabinets dense and inert -
and that makes them quite the devil if you want to move them!


I would be great.
How about bi-amping, like digital amp for 2245, tube for coax?

I personally think Urei monitors are somewhat underrated compare to the other vintage Altec or JBL. The reasons are probably: they are neither pure Altec 604 nor pure JBL, lack of information about them, horrible sounding original network (too many "aged" electrolytic caps), cheap looking plastic horn with strange blue foam packaging material permanently attached, the black cabinets look like Marshall stack (extremely low WAF!) etc.

[Dave M]

Add "they are bloody heavy" to the mix -
apparently UREI went to great pains to make the cabinets dense and inert -
and that makes them quite the devil if you want to move them!

Exactly!

[rusty jefferson]

After my recently listening adventure,
I have a vision of something like the 813 -
with the 15 coaxial on top but with
a 2245 as the supplemental woofer ...

I tried to talk a friend into going (sort of) this route when a pair of 811Cs came up for sale last year. He already has a pair of 8 cubic foot subs with 2245s. I don't know if the 2245 would be a good choice as the "helper" because of crossover changes, custom cabinet build, etc., but a pair of 811s on top of 2245 subs is gonna be pretty good.:)

[hjames]

I tried to talk a friend into going (sort of) this route when a pair of 811Cs came up for sale last year. He already has a pair of 8 cubic foot subs with 2245s. I don't know if the 2245 would be a good choice as the "helper" because of crossover changes, custom cabinet build, etc., but a pair of 811s on top of 2245 subs is gonna be pretty good.:)

Yes - I suspect something like that might be enough for me to move off my venerable L200-plus system!
Not sure how my spouse would go for stacked cabinets upstairs, but she's always been a fan of good sounds!
I'll have to consider some 811Cs then!

[/URL]http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/UREI Time Align Series/813C-L,R.pdf (http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/UREI Time Align Series/813C-L,R.pdf) - UREI 813C Manual

(http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/UREI Time Align Series/811C-L,R.pdf)[URL]http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/UREI Time Align Series/811C-L,R.pdf - UREI 811C manual

Oh, found this one too!

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Systems Reference Charts/UREI Series.pdf - UREI System Refe4rence Charts

[Dave M]

I tried to talk a friend into going (sort of) this route when a pair of 811Cs came up for sale last year. He already has a pair of 8 cubic foot subs with 2245s. I don't know if the 2245 would be a good choice as the "helper" because of crossover changes, custom cabinet build, etc., but a pair of 811s on top of 2245 subs is gonna be pretty good.:)

Since 813C is designed to be installed woofer top - coax bottom (very uncommon for home audio!), having big subwoofer under 813 instead of speaker stand would work great. My 813Cs sit on low DIY stand upside down (woofer bottom).

[subwoof]

The helper woofer in the last gen 813C that came through the shop was the 2234HPL ( no foilcal, rubber tire ) while the coax was the E145 with the 2425HS ( again without foilcal, tire ).

A local studio also has a pair soffett mounted with that woofer. Perhaps they ordered it that way??

I have a pair of the 813B cabinets / crossover in storage - That one used the eminence foam woofer and the PAS audio 15 / JBL driver combo.

Either way the coax sound isn't duplicatd by any JBL large format monitor and makes for a easy to set up sweet spot / area.

Agreed on the caps though. Was always thinking about making a pair of CC crossovers for the 801C's here ( and the 803C's ) that have been rebuilt. no time anymore alas..:(

sub

[rusty jefferson]

...The JBL Monitor paper sheds pretty good light on these: http://www.cieri.net/Documenti/JBL/Technical%20Notes/JBL%20Technical%20Note%20-%20Vol.1,%20No.15.pdf

That's a great link. Thanks for sharing. I don't know if that's in the Library, but it should be.



.... Interestingly, I had exactly the same impression that JBL tech paper says: "Some engineers subjectively describe the imaging of the Time Align as existingin front of the enclosures, while the Bi-Radials seem toplace the image in perspective behind the plane of theenclosures. ". ..

Mine don't exhibit this characteristic, however they are not soffit mounted, and I don't know if that's a factor. Mine are about 7 ft (the baffle) from the front wall, and the image is on plane with the speakers, and back to that wall. I have noticed that particular pieces of electronics I've tried will move the image further forward.


The helper woofer in the last gen 813C that came through the shop was the 2234HPL ( no foilcal, rubber tire ) while the coax was the E145 with the 2425HS ( again without foilcal, tire ).

A local studio also has a pair soffett mounted with that woofer. Perhaps they ordered it that way??


I'd be curious to know, too. I found this thread about 2234/2235 comparisons, perhaps Giskard or Widget would have an opinion on the 2234/2215 swap out. I don't think I've ever seen a published crossover point for the 2215 in these speakers. Anybody?

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?19-What-was-the-couse-with-2234H/page3 (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?19-What-was-the-couse-with-2234H/page3)

[grumpy]

a bit more info:

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Systems%20Reference%20Charts/UREI%20Series.pdf

the bx was an odd duck, in comparison (veneer, form factor).

[subwoof]

The only reasoning I can think of is that both the E145 and 2215 share the same VERY deep magnetic gap depth with short voice coil - maximum linearity but at additional cost of the oversized magnetic structure.

ALL the earlier versions did not share this design due to multiple brands / model changes.

sub

[BMWCCA]

ive not heard the larger incarnations, but i am also impressed with the smaller 809A units, given thier size, performance is great

my understanding is that they were basically made to compete with the Altec monitors of the same ilk...


Let me know if you'd like me to pick these up for you! :deal:


Still in working condition. Vintage UREI studio monitor speakers model 809 and Carver Magnetic field power amp. model PM175. Not willing to separate. http://richmond.craigslist.org/ele/4839835890.html

[Lee in Montreal]

Hey Miss James. I've tried to reply to your PM, but it seems you have exceeded your storage limit ;-)

Lee

[hjames]

Anyone have thoughts or experience with the UREI 809s?
I gather they have the 12 inch coaxial and not the 15 inch -
so they would be a little smaller and lighter - easier to move ...

I have seen there are both model 809, and an 809A model ...

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/UREI%20Time%20Align%20Series/809A-L,R.pdf

Seems the 813C is listed as 101db sensitivity, the 809A is only 93db sensitivity ...
But the frequency response is listed the same for both, surprisingly.

[Dave M]

a bit more info:

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Systems%20Reference%20Charts/UREI%20Series.pdf

the bx was an odd duck, in comparison (veneer, form factor).

813BX (floor standing model) might have different low frequency response than the other soffit 813s.

I wonder if anyone has any information about it.

[martin2395]

I always thought that the 809's unit was a 2214H modified for use with a coax comp. driver.

My thought is that the 813's will have far superior HF with their 2425 compared to the 2416 on the 809.

[hjames]

I looked and found a pair of 809A on ebay that turned out to be local in Falls Church, VA.
Subwoof gave me some tips on setting up a pair of 2214s as "helper woofers"

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?36661-UREI-809A-Project




Anyone have thoughts or experience with the UREI 809s?
I gather they have the 12 inch coaxial and not the 15 inch -
so they would be a little smaller and lighter - easier to move ...

I have seen there are both model 809, and an 809A model ...

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/UREI%20Time%20Align%20Series/809A-L,R.pdf

Seems the 813C is listed as 101db sensitivity, the 809A is only 93db sensitivity ...
But the frequency response is listed the same for both, surprisingly.

[hjames]

I've not heard the larger incarnations,
but I am also impressed with the smaller 809A units, given their size, performance is great

my understanding is that they were basically made to compete with the Altec monitors of the same ilk...

I liked Rusty's 813C so much I bought some 12 inch 809As last month, just to check them out.

My experience is completely like Louped Garouv's - they are so nice sounding, so crisp. Awesome!
I was so impressed I finally sold off my much-beloved L200B custom jobbies and
just bought a pair of 15 inch (single coaxial) 811C UREIs!

More info and pix as time allows! [JBL inside]

(http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/UREI%20Time%20Align%20Series/811C-L,R.pdf)http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/UREI%20Time%20Align%20Series/811C-L,R.pdf

64890

[grumpy]

Looks like a nice pair. So often the drivers are beat up and the foam on the horns damaged.
I think you'll enjoy these :)

[Mr. Widget]

I remember hearing the 813s in many studios in the early '80s... they were quite the rage. Like most people I was definitely impressed back then and coveted them. I'd love to hear a pair with today's ears.



Widget

[srm51555]

I've always been into the concept of coaxial speakers but never really has a chance to listen to a good pair....I look forward to your listening impressions. Congrats.

[rusty jefferson]

I liked Rusty's 813C so much I bought some 12 inch 809As last month, just to check them out.
......and just bought a pair of 15 inch (single coaxial) 811C UREIs!


I like where this is going! Congratulations! Looks like a super nice pair.

[tinpan]

Congratulations, those 12 inchers were pretty bad ass speakers. Can't wait to hear the 15's.

[turnitdown]

I liked Rusty's 813C so much I bought some 12 inch 809As last month, just to check them out.

My experience is completely like Louped Garouv's - they are so nice sounding, so crisp. Awesome!
I was so impressed I finally sold off my much-beloved L200B custom jobbies and
just bought a pair of 15 inch (single coaxial) 811C UREIs!

More info and pix as time allows! [JBL inside]

(http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/UREI%20Time%20Align%20Series/811C-L,R.pdf)http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/UREI%20Time%20Align%20Series/811C-L,R.pdf

64890

Heather, I have been following your Urei journey and am vicariously enjoying it. I was raised in broadcast and recording studios and have an appreciation for the goodies inside. My most recent pursuit has been geared toward the 4425, 30, 35 et al monitors - but truthfully, the Uries have always been favorites. You have steered me back to my personal, inner choice. The form factor and lineage is exactly what I love about them. Of course, there's the sound.

[hjames]

Heather, I have been following your Urei journey and am vicariously enjoying it. I was raised in broadcast and recording studios and have an appreciation for the goodies inside. My most recent pursuit has been geared toward the 4425, 30, 35 et al monitors - but truthfully, the Uries have always been favorites. You have steered me back to my personal, inner choice. The form factor and lineage is exactly what I love about them. Of course, there's the sound.

Thanks very kindly - truth be told, I am in a holding pattern right now.
I've got both pairs of Vandersteen listed in the local Craigslist,
and I need them out of the way before I can pull down the 811Cs and rebuild the crossovers.
My experience has been that Vandersteens can be slow to sell
(I had some 2CIs before I got the 3As and they took a while).

But we are enjoying the heck out of the 2 pair of 809As I put downstairs where the Vandy's used to play -
(for front mains and side surrounds) ... We watched Looper last night and the sound was flat amazing!

Its also spring and my spare time has been tied up with yard work - I've planted 3 Japanese Maples so far & 2 more to go!
(Local nursery is closing and selling them off at 35% off!) The red one in our front yard was special (Emma posed for scale!)
And there is a 7 1/2 foot one still in a pot behind the ferns at the pond!
And tons of other outdoor work for summer -

65525

65526

65527

[Dave M]

Great! My 813C sounds so much better after replacing the electrolytic capacitors with not-so-exotic films.

[hjames]

Thanks for the comments Dave -
Can't wait to get started!

I'm still trying to sell off the 5 Vandersteens
I kinda figured it would take a while and I'm not going to cut my price in half just to move them ...
plus its outdoor season - the most I do is watch a movie or listen to some music now and then ...
mostly free time is outdoors!

[Ian Mackenzie]

There is some good information on the www about the Urie Time-Aligned monitors.

Edward Long developed a way of measuring delay of the horn and woofer with great accuracy.

This lead to research of a time aligned crossover network that used delay line principles in the form of a 10th order Bessel low pass filter. Bessel filter exhibit a flat extended group delay.

So this was hardly a gimmick.

Among other interesting features small light bulbs were used for current limiting.

[hjames]

Pre-Thanksgiving update ...
Been dying to get my living room back for over a year!
SO - I made up my mind and sold off the BIg UREIs about 6 weeks back,
(I pulled my back and they were too heavy to fuss over, plus I simply had no time to redo the x0vers)
On Monday got a deposit on the Vandy 3As - they'll get shipped to the west coast after the 1st of the year,
and I listed the Vandy 2CEs Monday and sold them last night ...

Now, all I have upstairs is the Von Schwiekert VR-4s ...
which still sound might good on the 60 watt Jolida 502BRC tube amp!

(- I still have the 2 pairs of UREI 809s downstairs)

68269

If I get time this weekend - massive cleaning project!


Thanks very kindly - truth be told, I am in a holding pattern right now.
I've got both pairs of Vandersteen listed in the local Craigslist,
and I need them out of the way before I can pull down the 811Cs and rebuild the crossovers.
My experience has been that Vandersteens can be slow to sell
(I had some 2CIs before I got the 3As and they took a while).

But we are enjoying the heck out of the 2 pair of 809As I put downstairs where the Vandy's used to play -
(for front mains and side surrounds) ... We watched Looper last night and the sound was flat amazing!

65525

[hjames]

Its an old post about a pair of UREI 809As with a carver PM-175 power amp ...
not sure I ever got back to you on this - but I did wind up making a saturday run to Richmond
mid-spring and picked up the speakers AND the amp, once I finally got her to move the price down further!

The carver sounds great but is in storage - the 2 UREIs needed surround replacement and are now
side surrounds in our TV/home theater room (and sound superb!

Let me know if you'd like me to pick these up for you! :deal:

[gestures]

Just came across this thread... long time 813C owner here. I find the coaxial design to be superior to just about everything at accurately replicating voices (they've scared the hell out of me multiple times during playback while in a different room).

I drive them with a Lab Gruppen PLM series amplifier (totally overkill; it does double duty in my PA). It has built in DSP (Dolby Lake) so one of these days I'll get around to bypassing the analog crossover to find out how much they can really shine. If anyone has done so already then please do send me a PM ! Would love to compare notes.

My (second) pair came from USC campus by way of Mr. Richard McIlvery, freshly reconed, when they upgraded to a pair of ATC monitors. I recall him mentioning that subjectively there wasn't $40k worth of difference ; )

Would really love compare with a pair of Tannoy System 215 DMT II's.

They really should be accompanied by a subwoofer when not soffit mounting, but they're quite impressive even without IMHO.

A view of my old livingroom taken right after they moved in:

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[hjames]

Very very cool! Thanks for sharing!


Just came across this thread... long time 813C owner here. I find the coaxial design to be superior to just about everything at accurately replicating voices (they've scared the hell out of me multiple times during playback while in a different room).

I drive them with a Lab Gruppen PLM series amplifier (totally overkill; it does double duty in my PA). It has built in DSP (Dolby Lake) so one of these days I'll get around to bypassing the analog crossover to find out how much they can really shine. If anyone has done so already then please do send me a PM ! Would love to compare notes.

My (second) pair came from USC campus by way of Mr. Richard McIlvery, freshly reconed, when they upgraded to a pair of ATC monitors. I recall him mentioning that subjectively there wasn't $40k worth of difference ; )

Would really love compare with a pair of Tannoy System 215 DMT II's.

They really should be accompanied by a subwoofer when not soffit mounting, but they're quite impressive even without IMHO.

A view of my old livingroom taken right after they moved in:

69327

[rusty jefferson]

Just came across this thread... long time 813C owner here. I find the coaxial design to be superior to just about everything at accurately replicating voices......

I couldn't agree more. Very natural.



They really should be accompanied by a subwoofer when not soffit mounting, but they're quite impressive even without IMHO.


Again, I agree about this point also. I have a pair of subs paired with my 813Cs. Here's a link to a thread I started last month about my set up. Probably as good a time as any to link it here in Heather's thread.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?37653-D-C-Metro-area-meet-up

[hjames]

I couldn't agree more. Very natural.



Again, I agree about this point also. I have a pair of subs paired with my 813Cs. Here's a link to a thread I started last month about my set up. Probably as good a time as any to link it here in Heather's thread.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?37653-D-C-Metro-area-meet-up

And what a fantastic sound your system has, Rusty!!


http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=68614&d=1449548421

[Dave M]

I drive them with a Lab Gruppen PLM series amplifier (totally overkill; it does double duty in my PA). It has built in DSP (Dolby Lake) so one of these days I'll get around to bypassing the analog crossover to find out how much they can really shine. If anyone has done so already then please do send me a PM ! Would love to compare notes.



I'm currently using 813C in the living room. I recently finished installing multi amp driven DMS-1 for my home studio, and I'm pretty sure the digital crossover will work very well with 813C as well. Please report, I'm curious.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?38012-JBL-DMS-1-Experience-and-Measurement

[Mitchco]

You folks are so lucky to have those monitors! As an ex recording/mixing engineer from the 80's I worked in several studio control rooms with the 813's. I loved working with those monitors - so easy on the ears, and the time alignment is what made them sound so good - the depth of field was amazing. As Ian said in a few posts back, the time alignment was incredibly precise, I wish I had the TEF plots I took to show. The only way I have been able to come close after all of those years was using software DSP to time align monitors that can be read about here (http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/556-advanced-acourate-digital-xo-time-alignment-driver-linearization-walkthrough/).

I don't know what happened to all of those monitors, but would love a pair. The original 813's with the Altec drivers were a wee bit smoother sounding in my opinion, but the 813C's with the JBL's could handle any amount of SPL, whereas the poor Altec cones would frap out. Enjoy the sound!70571705727057370574

[gestures]

I'm currently using 813C in the living room. I recently finished installing multi amp driven DMS-1 for my home studio, and I'm pretty sure the digital crossover will work very well with 813C as well. Please report, I'm curious.

I will update this thread as soon as I have some time to bypass the analog crossover and run the system through SMAART. I'll do my best to document the measurements before / after but I'm also not an expert (yet...) so if anyone has some ideas on how to make an accurate comparison using RTA then I'm all ears. : )


You folks are so lucky to have those monitors! As an ex recording/mixing engineer from the 80's I worked in several studio control rooms with the 813's. I loved working with those monitors - so easy on the ears, and the time alignment is what made them sound so good - the depth of field was amazing. As Ian said in a few posts back, the time alignment was incredibly precise, I wish I had the TEF plots I took to show. The only way I have been able to come close after all of those years was using software DSP to time align monitors that can be read about here (http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/556-advanced-acourate-digital-xo-time-alignment-driver-linearization-walkthrough/).

I don't know what happened to all of those monitors, but would love a pair. The original 813's with the Altec drivers were a wee bit smoother sounding in my opinion, but the 813C's with the JBL's could handle any amount of SPL, whereas the poor Altec cones would frap out. Enjoy the sound!

Well, they do come up on eBay for quite reasonable prices, a couple pairs per year (I watch it religiously, in case a backup pair comes available nearby). These just came onto market, in fact: http://www.ebay.com/itm/UREI-813C-SPEAKERS-VINTAGE-RARE-QUALITY-SOUND-FAR-FIELD-MONITORS-STUDIO-KEPT-/272185096382?hash=item3f5f7ef8be:g:csEAAOSwG-1WyHxg

I can't think of anything that sounds better for ~2kUSD... or several multiples of, for that matter.

[Dave M]

You folks are so lucky to have those monitors! As an ex recording/mixing engineer from the 80's I worked in several studio control rooms with the 813's. I loved working with those monitors - so easy on the ears, and the time alignment is what made them sound so good - the depth of field was amazing. As Ian said in a few posts back, the time alignment was incredibly precise, I wish I had the TEF plots I took to show. The only way I have been able to come close after all of those years was using software DSP to time align monitors that can be read about here (http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/556-advanced-acourate-digital-xo-time-alignment-driver-linearization-walkthrough/).

I don't know what happened to all of those monitors, but would love a pair. The original 813's with the Altec drivers were a wee bit smoother sounding in my opinion, but the 813C's with the JBL's could handle any amount of SPL, whereas the poor Altec cones would frap out. Enjoy the sound!

Cool pictures! I also used to work in the studios in NY and London in 90's. Ureis were everywhere until Genelecs evict them . First time I saw 813 was in a small commercial studio in London. 813 were hung on the chain from the ceiling, LOL. Later, I saw many NY indy music producers were banging 811s in their pre-production studios (MPC-60+Amek etc.).

[Dave M]

I will update this thread as soon as I have some time to bypass the analog crossover and run the system through SMAART. I'll do my best to document the measurements before / after but I'm also not an expert (yet...) so if anyone has some ideas on how to make an accurate comparison using RTA then I'm all ears. : )


I use REW, which is an excellent FREE software. Mic is cheap Dayton, but it comes with data. I think it is pretty reliable. Pro audio interface ($100 or less) will make your life MUCH easier. Whole measurement tools cost $100-150. I use pro audio production / mastering softwares (Protools and Equilibrium) for crossover duty, because they are already installed in my music computer (free!) and I know how to use them very well.

[Mitchco]

@Dave M cool! @gestures thanks for the eBay tip! Wrt to time alignment, maybe this article helpful, in case you have not seen it: http://www.livesoundint.com/archives/2003/july/align/align.php I use REW as well, plus Acourate DSP.

[gestures]

Hi, just a heads up that I'm sadly putting my pair up for sale.

I relocated to Berlin from Seattle and don't foresee myself having the time and money to ship them over anytime soon + my friend's storage in the basement is no longer available due to a move.

I'd like to get 1500 (price reflects the need for a refoam on the surrounds) but I'm a bit flexible as they need to go somewhere fast.

Willing to arrange freight from Seattle for serous buyers.


Just came across this thread... long time 813C owner here. I find the coaxial design to be superior to just about everything at accurately replicating voices (they've scared the hell out of me multiple times during playback while in a different room).

I drive them with a Lab Gruppen PLM series amplifier (totally overkill; it does double duty in my PA). It has built in DSP (Dolby Lake) so one of these days I'll get around to bypassing the analog crossover to find out how much they can really shine. If anyone has done so already then please do send me a PM ! Would love to compare notes.

My (second) pair came from USC campus by way of Mr. Richard McIlvery, freshly reconed, when they upgraded to a pair of ATC monitors. I recall him mentioning that subjectively there wasn't $40k worth of difference ; )

Would really love compare with a pair of Tannoy System 215 DMT II's.

They really should be accompanied by a subwoofer when not soffit mounting, but they're quite impressive even without IMHO.

A view of my old livingroom taken right after they moved in:

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