my 4343B upgrade

[pmcomp]

Hi,

it is my first post here. Hello to everybody.
I live in Poland (sorry for my horrible English), bought 4343B a few months ago and I in love with them.
A while I used them in standard mode, after that in biamping mode with external crossover. Later I've decided to make a combination between active and passive crossover. Passive only for HF/UHF and 3-way external crossover.
I've tried three of them: digital dbx480 and two analog: JBL M553 and dbx234L. Final decision to buy analog and tube crossover. Not so easy task.
I was lucky and found Audio Research EC-4. After a big upgrade it got new resistors, new caps and new 12AX7 silver plates Marconi tubes.
Next week I'm going to listen how does it sound.
Before that I started speakers reassembling. I threw out the original 3143 crossover and L-Pads from cabinet. Instead of L-pads I'll use resistors. I prepared a new terminals plate and connected them direct to the speakers.
Here you can see the pictures (starting from #777): http://hdtvpolska.com/topic/32905-muza-filmy-i-sprzet-pmcompa-relacja-z-audio-show-2014/page-39
I'm going to build a new external passive crossover for HF/UHF based on new coils, Duelund caps and PathAudio and Mundorf resistors.

Of course I need three amps. For lows I use JBL/UREI 6260. For mids I'm going to use Dynaco Stereo 35 after upgrade and for HF/UHF Heathkit UA-2 after upgrade. Preamp is Audio Research LS16 after big upgrade.

I'll let you know how it sounds.

Regards.

pmcomp

[Odd]

Nice thread you have. I can not read it, but many fine images.
Why not go 4 way active?

You can find a lot of info here;
4343 References Thread (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?16951-4343-References-Thread)
Thanks "hjames"

[pmcomp]

Nice thread you have. I can not read it, but many fine images.
Why not go 4 way active?


Impossible to find 4-way tube crossover :blink:.

Maybe on my site you've found Tandberg speakers. On the same site but a few posts earlier. I own them two weeks and they are amazing. They've got something what 4343 misses ... sound colour with full of music. The speakers with the soul.
I'll try to find THIS in 4343. Jensen caps in crossover and warm tubes, maybe Mullards. Duelunds with graphitte resistors should help to. Will see.

Regards.

pmcomp

[ivica]

Impossible to find 4-way tube crossover :blink:.

Maybe on my site you've found Tandberg speakers. On the same site but a few posts earlier. I own them two weeks and they are amazing. They've got something what 4343 misses ... sound color with full of music. The speakers with the soul.
I'll try to find THIS in 4343. Jensen caps in crossover and warm tubes, maybe Mullards. Duelunds with graphitte resistors should help to. Will see.

Regards.

pmcomp
Hi pmcomp,
Looking at the figure you have presented, I want to suggest you first to check are the used driver are JBL original cones and diaphragms incorporated to the drivers, an example JBL 2121 original looks different then on your figures.
On the image:
http://imageshack.com/i/hl87DfIqj
seems to me that something is done with the 'spider', but the color is much like JBL

The same can be said for 2231h dust cup. The color of the 2231 suspension does not seems to remind me of the original , either to C8r2235 recone kit. I want to say if JBL sound want to be get original driver have to be used.

Second, I am sure that 4343 sound character would be always different then Tandberg 5020 speakers, as they used different technology driver type (compression horn drivers vs dome type in Tandberg).

If you prefer tube sound I think that tube amps would be enough, and you can use semiconductor based active crossover, but may be some forum members can help to make DIY active tube crossover too.

regards
ivica

[martin2395]

If there is no white marking saying "2235H" at the back on of the cone, then it's fake.
In that case I wouldn't even bother with luxurious crossovers but first make sure that the speakers ale all up to spec, 2121 with 'normal' dustcap may give very different results.
I don't want to sound so negative but the cone on your midwoofer may be a bunch of different pieces glued together - either the cone and the dustcap and also the suspenson don't look like 2121 at all.

[Odd]

Lineup up basic JBL 10 Inchs (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?16962-Field-Guide-to-the-JBL-10-inch-Midbass-driver-2121-2122-2123)

[hjames]

Field Guide to the JBL 10 inch Midbass driver 2121 2122 2123

Chart for the relevant 10 inch mid-Bass drivers ...
(pix and inventory courtesy of your friendly neighborhood SubWoof!)

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?16962-Field-Guide-to-the-JBL-10-inch-Midbass-driver-2121-2122-2123&p=171651&viewfull=1#post171651

[Robh3606]

Hello pmcomp

Not all recones have the cone kit written in white on the cone. I have a pair of 2231H's with 2235 cones with no writing on the cones. If you are concerned just measure the Fs of the driver. The after market kits do not have the mass ring so Fs will be high. As far as the 2121 one of the last batchs had issues with the fit of the dust cover. Cone color doesn't mean anything unless you are talking aquaplas. Between fading cones, multiple cone runs and different cone manufacurers I wouldn't worry about it. I have 4344's and think they are great happy to see you enjoying them.

Rob

[martin2395]

Rob, take another look at pmcomp's 2121 - it doesn't have the inverted dustcap and there is a strange line on the outer side of the cone also someone changed the description and added the "H" later.

We can't tell anything more without measurements.

[wpod]

someone on eBay would pay you a few dollars for them, I'm sure . Sounds to me like you are going about this correctly, I really like your choice of Audio components (Dynaco Stereo 35 and Heathkit UA-2) as well as your tweeks (Dueland caps and Mundorf resistors). For crossover resistors, I like to use the Mills MRA-12 non-inductive wirewounds as they are dead quiet and super reliable. If you really want a good tube crossover, check out a Marchand XM-126, it's all analogue, three or four way (12AX7 tubes ), and seperate power supply. They don't come up too often on the used market because most people keep them. http://www.marchandelec.com/xm126.html In any case, good luck with your 4343Bs, I've been loving mine for over 7 years!.Paul, Providence, RI

[pmcomp]

Hi,

nothing new in my project. I was waiting for delivery Mundorf resistors. I've already collected all the parts needed to pasive HF/UHF crossover means coils (made in Polish company Polink which makes coils fi. for Jantzen Audio), caps (Duelund) and resistors (Mundorf M-Resist Supreme for parallel connection and "home made" graphite resistors for serial connection similar to PathAudio:

63709


There is a HF/UHF scheme, without L-Pads changed for resistors. All resistors are 20W:

63708


Next week I should build them and put into two external cases.
My Audio Research EC-4 is after upgrade, I have to check it tomorrow.

The issue with my mid speakers. They are as they are. I'm not going to change them. They play and I believe play good :).

Regards.

PS. this scheme bellow as attached image is wrong. Next to 1,5uF schould be 4 Ohm instead of 4,4 Ohm. I don't know how to delete it.

[pmcomp]

Hi,

I finished my new passive crossovers for UHF/HF:

http://img661.imageshack.us/img661/919/tHzrop.jpg (http://imageshack.com/i/idtHzropj)

More nacked pictures on my blog: http://hdtvpolska.com/topic/32905-muza-filmy-i-sprzet-pmcompa-porownania-analog-vs-cyfra/page-41.

I could connect everything toogether.

With my active tube crossover as well:

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/540/7uM55T.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/f07uM55Tj)


How does it sound ???
I dont know :). It has to warm up about 100-200 hours because inside passive and active crossover and two tube ampifiers are new components: caps, resistors, coils and NOS tubes. Tomorrow with my friend, the musician who knows my system well from the past, we are going to set the levels of three parts of frequencies. We are going to try other crossover: dbX480, dbx234 and JBL M553 and compare them to this tube AR EC-4.

I'll let you know.

regards.

pmcomp