My "new" L250's: another back burner project, with style!!

[Doc Mark]

Good Morning, All,

As noted in another thread, a long round-trip drive, and a short, and very pleasant visit with TD, resulted in my now owning more than the basic makings of a set of L250 speakers!! Aside from a few nicks and dings, about which I already knew, the L250 cabinets are stunningly lovely!! Doug made me an offer I could not refuse, yesterday, and thanks to his kind and generous offer, I also picked up the (2) crossovers, in excellent condition; (2) 108H mid-bass drivers, in excellent condition; (2) LE5-11 drivers, in very good condition;, and (2) 044-1 HF drivers, with their mounting housings, also in very good condition, one with a dinged dome. I could not believe my good fortune, and was very happy to accept TD's wonderful offer, and became the new owner of what will eventually be a nice, working pair of L250's!! Thanks, Doug, and it was great to see you yesterday, brief though it was, and SB and I wish you guys every happiness in your new digs, once the dust settles after your move!!

So, all that remains for me to acquire are a nice pair of LE14H-1, or LE14H-3 woofers, and this system will once again do what it was originally designed to do!! I do realize that, finding such a pair of woofers is not going to be a quick and easy task, and I'm well prepared to wait patiently until those woofers come my way. In the meantime, I have a question: Though I know that the voice coil on the older LE14A woofer is shorter than those on the later variations of this great woofer, I am wondering if, until the proper LE14H-1/3's come to hand, a temporary solution would be to re-foam a pair of LE14A's, and, and use them in this system? I seem to recall reading that the older woofer rolls off a bit sooner, and therefore there may well be "holes" in the bandwidth between woofer, and mid-bass drivers. But, other than that, how would the older pair of LE14A's work in this manner? The older 14's seem to be everywhere, and for OK prices, though re-foaming them would add to the original acquisition costs. I may well have an LE14A single driver, depending on how a coin toss comes out! (More on that, later!! ;)). Be that as it may, what could I expect, if I used a pair of re-foamed LE14A woofers in the L250's, until a good pair of proper LE14H-1, or LE14H-3's came to hand? Thanks, very much, for your comments, suggestions, and information, Folks, as always!! Until I can get these up and running, right now, I'm just enjoying LOOKING at them!! Thanks, too, to my wonderful wife, who also loves our JBL systems, and is willing to put up with "just one more" in our home!! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc (still smiling after yesterday's trip to see TD)!!

P.S. I will not be working on this L250 project, until the 4-way system that's been in the works for so many years, is totally completed. Nice to have another fun project on the "back burner", though!

[BMWCCA]

P.S. I will not be working on this L250 project, until the 4-way system that's been in the works for so many years, is totally completed. Nice to have another fun project on the "back burner", though!

Hah! I know what you mean. My "new" 250tis are still in the van awaiting a place in the house for them. Sad but true!

Good for T-dome finding them a good home.

[Doc Mark]

HI, BMWCC,

Thanks, Phil! Mine will have to come inside fairly quickly, as I don't want Winter to set in and still have them in the truck!! I have a place for them, and just need to do a little "shuffling" to make it ready. Then, we'll just enjoy looking at the L250s, with the drivers I got from TD, until I can source a good pair of woofers to complete the system! Are you planning to use yours as an alternative to the great 4345's you have, or in another part of the house? Or, have you gotten that far, just yet? Thanks for the shout, and congrats on getting your L250Ti's! Have fun with them, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[BMWCCA]

Are you planning to use yours as an alternative to the great 4345's you have, or in another part of the house?

The 4345s dominate their room. Nothing else can exist in there and still be claimed to have a purpose!

The 250tis will go into the "spare" bedroom which acts as my demo area and currently houses everything else like two pair of L7, an L5, L3, L1, 4412A, L96, Pro-III Plus, L80T/3, etc. The original L112s are in their bedroom where they've spent their entire lives hooked to a Mac C20 and a Crown D150. The L20Ts are hooked up to the Craig's List Kyocera system, and my daughter's room has another Soundcraftsmen system with a free Kyocera CD deck and a pile of Crown D45s with JBL LX22s. My original 030s are in storage and the "new" C35s I got for them are in a friend's basement. Another sad story is the L150As are still in storage needing re-surrounds, after several years.

There's always a project waiting somewhere. Today's a vacation day and I'm not tackling any large projects!

Oh yeah, there are also plumbing repairs I'm putting off . . .

[opimax]

Phil,

Where is your van parked? just curious.... :leaving:

Mark

[BMWCCA]

Where is your van parked? just curious.... :leaving:

Not in DC . . . at least last time I looked!

Want me to leave the keys in it for you? :rotfl:

At least it's a different van than the one that carried the 4345s down from Connecticut, though that one's still here, too.
No speakers in it but most likely enough stuff to send a teenager to college! It's scheduled for donation to NPR.

[hjames]

Phil,

Where is your van parked? just curious.... :leaving:

Mark
In the woods ... down by the river ...

[grumpy]

...next to the shed with the chainsaws and the creepy guy? :eek:

[Doc Mark]

Howdy, All,

I've been talking to Edgewound, and a few other of our forum Mates, about the woofers needed to complete these L250's and get them into action. However, as mentioned, I'm not going to jump on anything, right away, as I have other commitments for my next discretionary income. After that, I will decide what to do about woofers. In the meantime, I did come upon a solution that would allow me to listen to the L250's a bit sooner. I have thought about biamping the L300's crossed at 400HZ to the L250's, and using the internal crossover in the 250's to do the rest. That would work, and the L300/L250's would look great together, though most certainly not a permanent solution. I also have the old 4333 cabinets that Grumpy so kindly sent my way a few years ago, right before we chanced upon our L300's, in fact. I'd already decided to turn them into bass cabinets, with a spare set of 2235's, for some smaller cabinets, like 4408's, L19's, or an outboard 3-way of various components. So, they could easily be used with the L250's to add some bottom end, until I suss out the proper woofers for them.

I have options, at least, which is always a good thing. Right now, I'm reading, and learning, and asking more questions about all this! Thanks, one and all, for your help, and comments. Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[Doc Mark]

Greetings, All,

It looks like I may well have found some perfect woofers for my L250, and plan on acquiring them at year's end. But, in the meantime, I had asked a question about using LE14A woofers in the L250s, after refoaming them. I know the TS parameters are different for the 14A, but wonder if anyone has actually tried a pair of refoamed LE14A's in an L250 system? If so, what did you find and how did they function? I am eager to acquire the LE14H-3's that I have been offered, but wanted to play around with this other combo, in the interim. I'm guessing the transition from woofer to mid-bass is not going to be as smooth as it should be, and unless the cabs are retuned for the LE14A, the bass won't be that great, either. Probably not worth the trouble, but thought I'd ask, anyway, for information's sake. Thanks, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[macaroonie]

Someone beat you to it Doc Bottom of page

http://www.k-i-t.jp/~soundgallery/body05_03.html

[macaroonie]

Someone beat you to it Doc , Bottom of page

http://www.k-i-t.jp/~soundgallery/body05_03.html

just another thought , why not graft in your spare 2235's. ? They might just fit and since you are Bi amping ......

[Doc Mark]

Hey, Macaroonie,

Thanks for the link. Looks a bit "out of place", almost, at least to my eye. I wonder how those sounded with the LE14A, and the lans-alloy surround? I'm guessing, not much bass. I did give passing thought to seeing if a 2235H would fit into the L250 cabinet, but really would prefer to use them as they were originally designed, without mucking about with the cabs too much. TD and Grumpy already did a bit of retrofit on the cabs, to add different drivers, for their PT250 experiment, and I'd prefer not to drill any more holes than are already in the enclosures. We'll see how it all turns out. But, I did think it might be fun to see what the LE14A sounded like, with a new Rick Cobb surround, in the L250's. I talked to Edgewound, and if I wanted to go for a recone, turning the LE14A's into LE14H-1's he can do the work. But, the price, in the end would be similar to buying a set of factory made LE14H-3's, I believe. Thanks for your comments and suggestions, Mac. Much appreciated! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[tomee]

Hey Doc,
Any pics of these? Curious to see what sort of condition these are in.
:)

[SEAWOLF97]

Doc

whats your guess on how much the L250's will cost by the time you are done ?

[Doc Mark]

Evening, All,

Tomee, you bet! I'll post some photos just as soon as I clean this place up a bit. I've been out of town, doing "Honey-do's" for my Mom-in-law, and just got back this afternoon. Just had our place painted, and some interior plumbing done, and so the inside is packed with stuff that had to be moved in so the painters, and the plumber had room to work. Now, it's time to get it all back to "normal" again. As soon as that happens, I'll post photos!

SeaWolf97, I think the L250's will total about $1,000.00 by the time all is said and done, unless a miracle happens, for which I shall not hold my breath!! It could end up being a good bit less than my estimate, but the tale will be told once I can afford to actually purchase the woofers. If a grand ends up being the final price, I'll be a "Happy Chappy", as my Brit friends are wont to say, and think that's an excellent price, for what we will be getting!! ;) :D I'll see how it all goes, once all the $$ commitments have been taken care of, and all drivers are assembled, installed, and tested, will post a report on how it all went down. Thanks, very much, for the comments from you all, and as I've already said, it's very exciting and quite lovely, having a pair of these L250's to enjoy (once the system is complete)! With the L300's, and L250's, and various smaller JBL's that I own, I think most of the bases will be covered, at least for what our wallet, and living spaces can afford to accommodate!! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[Doc Mark]

Hey, SEAWOLF97,

I have just spent some enjoyable time, seeking out and reading your own L250/L250Ti journey, Tom, and it was delightful and informative! Thanks for all that good info, and for sharing your experiences with the two models of this system. Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Mark

[SEAWOLF97]

Hey, SEAWOLF97,

I have just spent some enjoyable time, seeking out and reading your own L250/L250Ti journey, Tom, and it was delightful and informative! Thanks for all that good info, and for sharing your experiences with the two models of this system. Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Mark

Yup, I rather like mine , tho there is newer/better out there. Have not heard L250's, but I suspect that they are within a percent or two of the 250Ti performance. There are many good threads on the forum about them. IF you have carpet, make sure you protect the easily damaged skirts.

The L250Ti designation does not exist , even Rob made that mistake on the reference pages. The "L" was dropped in the later version.

I asked about how much you'll have in them as I've followed the market and they generally sell in the 1K +- range. The 250Ti's are generally in the 2K area. Yours are obviously the better "bang for the buck"

[Doc Mark]

Howdy, SEAWOLF97,

Thanks for the shout. When I bought the cabs and crossovers from Doug, he charged me the advertised $50 price, which I thought was a steal, and I told him so. He, of course, already knew that! After we packed up the cabs in my truck, TD offered me the original drivers which went with that system, minus the woofers, for an additional $350. I thought about it for just a bit, then bought the entire package for his asking price. Doug was kind enough to set me up with a bit of "special consideration", and that was very nice of him. So, all told, from TD, I have $400 into the L250's. I figure it will cost me an additional $600 to get a really nice pair of LEH14-3 woofers, and that is what I would like to do. I now have a pair "on hold", from another kind and helpful forum member. I hope to pick those up at year's end, and definitely plan to do so. IF that plan comes to fruition, barring any problems, that will bring my total price up to $1,000 for a working, and original pair of L250's. I'm happy with that, most especially because it will have come to me via two trusted LH forum members!!

By the way, the cabs are in excellent condition, other than a few extra holes, which will be covered up by mounting the original drivers, which were drilled into the cabs for Doug and Dave's experiment with dome drivers in these cabs. There is one other, very small, veneer problem, but it just where a bit of veneer lifted up around a woofer hole, and I believe I can make that so discreet that few, or any people would notice it. The skirts on both cabs are wonderful condition, with only one very small flake chipped out, and one dink in a back right corner on one cab. The drivers I got are in excellent to very good condition, with one dome tweeter pushed in a tad. The rest look just fine. To me, they are darn near perfect! As promised, I'll post photos when the place has been cleaned up, and our LR doesn't resemble a garage, as it does right now! :o: Thanks, again, for all the info you shared, and for your comments in this thread. Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[mech986]

Hey Doc,

Glad you got that system. If I'd have been on the forum and saw some of that pricing, I would have been shot by wife for thinking about bringing home yet another system.

If you need any help with 2235's, or small two way systems like 4408 or L19, let me know, they are in abundance here.

[Doc Mark]

Howdy, Bart!

It's great to hear from you, my friend! When you mentioned that you had not seen TD's listing of the L250's and crossovers, I had to smile! Immediately, the thought of your signature line, with the "JBL Fan Mech986" driving his car to acquire some new JBL goodies, came to mind!! I'm really happy to have gotten there, and been the recipient of TD's generous pricing on the goodies I got from him!! However, if you, or any others of our LH forum friends, had gotten there ahead of me, I'd be happy for that, too! As long as we "kept them in the LH family", I'm happy, and doubly happy that I was able to do that!!

Thank you for your offer of some of the smaller JBL's, Bart. I truth, right now, I do have some of those same systems, but none of them are perfect. So, maybe in the future you and I can talk about what you have. On a related front, I am finally going to be using the great pair of 2123's that I got from you, years ago, as my long-planned for 4-way is finally coming to fruition! As the final pieces fall into place, I'll post that here, of course. Thanks for selling me the 2123's, and I know that, if we do business again, I'll be happy with whatever I get from you! Best to your wife and daughter, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Mark

[Doc Mark]

Good Evening, All,

Today, is my 65 birthday, and I've very much enjoyed a fun day of doing whatever I pleased, thanks to my lovely Sweet Bride! As part of that, I finally took a few photos, as requested, to share what I bought from Doug. This will show you how lovely the L250 cabinets are, and the excellent condition in which they came to me. The drivers, some of which are not 100% perfect, are really in acceptable condition, and some are in excellent condition. Please give it a peek, and you can see what I got from TD. I'm very excited about this project, and look forward to it coming to total fruition soon! Thanks for taking a look, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

63664636656366663667

P.S. I included a shot of the two 4645 cabinets, with 2245H woofers mounted in them. These will function as subwoofers for both the L300's, and also the L250's, depending on which system we are enjoying that the time. Both cabs need some new paint, and that will be done, after the L250's are up and running.

[grumpy]

Happy Birthday! :)

[Doc Mark]

Morning, Grumpy!

Thanks a lot, Dave! We can't stop the years from passing by, but we can, and should have as good a time as possible along the way!! My JBL's are part of what makes life worthwhile for me, and I am grateful for that fun blessing!! We definitely missed seeing you at the Las Vegas Audio Club meeting, and know you would have very much enjoyed joining in that fun!! I see a BBQ dinner on the horizon, though, and that will also be fun!! Thanks, again, and talk to you soon!

Every Good Wish,
Mark

[Doc Mark]

Good Morning, All,

Well, the pieces for my L250 project have finally come together, with the purchase of two nice JBL LE14H-3's from a good friend here on the forum. He will be shipping them soon, and as soon as they arrive, the only things left to source, or make, will be two proper grill frames!! I can hardly wait to finally get to hear these guys in our home, and very much look forward to that happening fairly soon!! I'll post more photos, as soon as the woofers arrive, safe and sound, and after the project is complete and up and running, will post a report on how these sound to Sweet Bride and me!! Talk soon, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[wsilva]

Doc
I have a extra set of 250ti grill frames that I am not using, if you want them just let me know.
I am in San Jose, but I do come to LA quite a bit.
Regards.
Walter

[Doc Mark]

Good Morning, Walter,

Many thanks for the offer of the 250ti grill frames! I'd have to drill the cabinets for the receiving part of the upgraded grill frames, and would have to think about that a bit before doing that. I do like that fact that the 250ti grills seem to be more stable on the cabinet, than the L250 grill frames look to be. I'll send you a PT, and we can discuss this further. Thanks, again, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[SEAWOLF97]

Good Morning, Walter,

Many thanks for the offer of the 250ti grill frames! I'd have to drill the cabinets for the receiving part of the upgraded grill frames, and would have to think about that a bit before doing that. I do like that fact that the 250ti grills seem to be more stable on the cabinet, than the L250 grill frames look to be. I'll send you a PT, and we can discuss this further. Thanks, again, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

why not just remove the posts ... I think they pull out , and then velcro a'la the 250's ?

[Doc Mark]

Good Morning, All,

Seawolf97, that's a good idea, and one into which I look.

My new LE14H-3's arrived yesterday, and the box containing them was huge, and very strong!! I'll be opening it later today, and checking out the new JBL's, then will post photos of what I have received. More about how that came to be, too! I'm EXCITED!! Talk soon, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[Doc Mark]

Greetings, All,

Yesterday, I unpacked my new LE14H-3's, bought from my forum friend, JuniorJBL, and I have to say, they look absolutely MINT, to me!! He packed them in three separate boxes, with plenty of padding around them, and because of his excellent attention to detail, they woofers arrived in perfect condition, without so much as a dent in a box!! Here's are the JBL beauties that I received:

64425 64426 64427 64428 64429

As you can see, there are no longer serial number decals on these woofers, which doesn't bother me on iota. I do, however, need to locate some proper gasket/rings for these woofers, as well as a few of the other drivers that will go into my L250's. I can probably make some, but, I'd prefer to have the real deal, if possible.

Also, thanks to yet another LH member, it appears I'll be getting a pair of 250ti grill frames to use with my cabinets!! Thanks, wsilva, for your kindness in offer me the grills, and I look forward to using them!!

More photos, and more info later, as this continues to progress towards JBL Adio Heaven Fruition!!! Thanks, again, to JuniorJBL, and wsilva, for their help, and when all is said and done, I'll post the list of everyone who has contributed to my L250 project becoming a reality!! This forum is filled to the brim with good folks, and I'm very thankful and highly appreciative, of all the advice, suggestions, and help that has come my way!! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

P.S. it seems that not all the photos uploaded, and it's possible that there is a limit to how many you can post at one time. Can't remember. I'll post the last two photos after this is sent.

[Doc Mark]

....And, here are the last two photos:

6443064431

As you can see, these LE14H-3's are quite lovely, indeed!! I am thinking that they once belonged to Ti Dome, unless my memory has once again gone south on me! If I'm right, then that means that these woofers have been in my L250 cabinet once before, which is rather fun!! In any case, all is moving ahead, nicely, and I hope to be enjoying music from my L250's very soon, now!! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[DavidF]

....And, here are the last two photos:

6443064431

As you can see, these LE14H-3's are quite lovely, indeed!! I am thinking that they once belonged to Ti Dome, unless my memory has once again gone south on me! If I'm right, then that means that these woofers have been in my L250 cabinet once before, which is rather fun!! In any case, all is moving ahead, nicely, and I hope to be enjoying music from my L250's very soon, now!! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

I really enjoy these woofers. Hope to keep them working for a very long time. I always thought I had to go with the 15" models and much larger enclosures. These do just fine for me.

[JuniorJBL]

There will always be a pair of those in my house!! :D

Enjoy Doc!!

[Doc Mark]

Hey, Guys,

Thanks, very much!! I'm going to probably make some rear gasket/seals, for all the drivers, and with only a few other thing left to do, it won't be long until the L250's are up and running again!! JuniorJBL, your woofers are the crowning glory of this system, and I thank you, once again, for making them available to me, and for your simply unbeatable packing job!!! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[Mr. Widget]

I am thinking that they once belonged to Ti Dome, unless my memory has once again gone south on me!I think every JBL once belonged to TiDome. :D


Widget

[JuniorJBL]

I think every JBL once belonged to TiDome. :D


Widget

LOL!! :rotfl:

Doc

The 108H uses a paper gasket and the other drivers used an "O-Ring" where the basket meets the mounting flange. I think I have some for the LE5's and 044's but not sure about the 14's.

I will try to remember to look today.

[Doc Mark]

Hey, Guys,

Mr. Widget, that is REALLY hilarious, and very probably "close" to the truth!! JuniorJBL, thanks for the offer on a few of those sealing rings. If JBL still offer them, I can certainly call and place an order for a full set. Also, I could make something that should work nicely. Or, if you have some that you want to sell me, that would work, too. I'm easy...... my wife would say, "too easy", sometimes!! <VBG!!> Thanks, again, Guys, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[rdgrimes]

For the paper gaskets, cereal boxes work quite well. Fruit Loops have the best audio quality. :p

[Doc Mark]

Hey, rdgrimes,

That's hilarious!! I'll have to do some tests, just for fun.....!! Thanks for the laugh, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[Doc Mark]

Good Morning, All,

Happy Sunday! I was thinking about paper gaskets, and realized that I've got a ton of use "photo background paper", which is white, sturdy, construction paper, that I could use for making gaskets for all the drivers. If such a thing would work on the LE14H-3's, then I may give that a go. I could get my old compass, and lay out the circles, then with a bit of careful scissor work, should have a complete set of gaskets in short order. What do you think, Guys and Gals? Would paper work for the large woofers, as well as the smaller drivers? Please let me know your thoughts on that, and if this looks workable, I'll get to it later today, or tomorrow! Thanks, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[JuniorJBL]

I would submit that trying to make a paper gasket for the LE-5/104H and 044 would be difficult at best. There is so little frame for sealing on those I think a small bead of rope caulk would be much better and reliable.

These are just my opinions and others may have had better luck than I. ;)

Also remember that the 044 is sealing the woofer compartment of the 250 as well.

[DavidF]

I would submit that trying to make a paper gasket for the LE-5/104H and 044 would be difficult at best. There is so little frame for sealing on those I think a small bead of rope caulk would be much better and reliable.

These are just my opinions and others may have had better luck than I. ;)

Also remember that the 044 is sealing the woofer compartment of the 250 as well.

Agree. I have used some caulk that works fine for permanent installation but can be a bitch once its time to pull the driver.

Lately, though, I have used a foam tape that Parts Express sells. Still a little sticky and gooey to work with on a reinstall but not too cumbersome. It is half inch so I generally have to cut it down to quarter inch.

http://www.parts-express.com/parts-express-speaker-gasketing-tape-1-8-x-1-2-x-50-ft-roll--260-542

[Doc Mark]

Evening, All,

Thanks, again, for your comments and suggestions. DavidF, your post reminded me of how I used to seal components in "the old days", back when I was building speaker boxes all the time!! I used something very similar to the double stick foam that you linked!! I had totally forgotten about that stuff!! We used it for window sealing during the Minnesota Winters we experienced, back when we lived up there! You could buy it at Home Improvement type stores, back then. I'll have to check into getting some of that. I think I either used 1/4", or maybe the 3/8" rolls, and "may" even have an old roll with my speaker stuff, down in the basement. Too old to use, I'm sure, but that would tell me the size I used for sealing transducers!! Thanks, DavidF, for reminding me about that stuff!! Yeah, it would be great to have the original JBL rings. But, as they are so scarce, it seems, I feel bad about taking them from another LH member, who may very well need them for some future project. Thanks, again, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[DavidF]

Evening, All,

Thanks, again, for your comments and suggestions. DavidF, your post reminded me of how I used to seal components in "the old days", back when I was building speaker boxes all the time!! I used something very similar to the double stick foam that you linked!! I had totally forgotten about that stuff!! We used it for window sealing during the Minnesota Winters we experienced, back when we lived up there! You could buy it at Home Improvement type stores, back then. I'll have to check into getting some of that. I think I either used 1/4", or maybe the 3/8" rolls, and "may" even have an old roll with my speaker stuff, down in the basement. Too old to use, I'm sure, but that would tell me the size I used for sealing transducers!! Thanks, DavidF, for reminding me about that stuff!! Yeah, it would be great to have the original JBL rings. But, as they are so scarce, it seems, I feel bad about taking them from another LH member, who may very well need them for some future project. Thanks, again, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

Honestly, Doc, those rings require a very tight tolerance in the correct hole size. I was able to manage it for a 128H project but it required many trials to assure the correct diameter. For some reason the smaller holes for the mids and tweets were always easier to manage. With these heavier 14 models it just seemed extra work to get those holes just right for someone without a CNC router. No problem mounting these with the original cabinet, of course.

This tape that I mentioned is not quite like the foam strips for windows and doors. There is no vinyl backing and the adhesive is a type of non-hardening calk that sticks far better to either the frame or the enclosure. Its just not as hard to remove as some of the caulk ropes (in my experience of course).