Who wins ?

[paragon]

"K" gets 51 % and "B" 52 % . :D

[scott fitlin]

I am not really fond of either candidate!

[Mr. Widget]

Originally posted by paragon
"K" gets 51 % and "B" 52 % . :D


I have no idea who wins... but I do know who looses. :(


Widget

[boputnam]

Originally posted by Mr. Widget
I have no idea who wins... I fear it will only be the lawyers...

[4313B]

So far the guy in the middle is winning with significant help from the guy on the left. I don't think the guy on the right has a clue as to what kind of hornet's nest he would be walking into. Then again, maybe he does and couldn't care less.

[Guido]

Giskard, IMHO you unfortunately might be right.

We Europeans (Germans) are worried a lot about your elections. Your country is just too big to leave the worries up to you.

Especially with a girlfriend flying frequently to the states life would be easier without at least one of the guys on your pics.

[4313B]

Little things stick out in my mind Guido.

- Running roughshod over the United Nations

- Setting up Colin Powell

- Setting up Condolezza Rice

- Setting up Tony Blair

- Suspending the Geneva Convention

- Germany pledging support if Bush isn't re-elected

- Freedom Fries

- Patriot Act

- Homeland Security

- Constitutional Amendments

- The haves and have mores

[merlin]

We are worried over here!

I cannot understand why the popular vote is not used for the election of your president.

I know Politics is kind of taboo with friends but we hear that many Americans do not care what the rest of the world thinks. If history teaches us anything, then it is that you should do.

Whatever happens, let's hope the people win.

[Zilch]

Originally posted by merlin
I cannot understand why the popular vote is not used for the election of your president.The Electoral College nominally confers more influence to individual smaller states. If it were done by popular vote alone, only the major population centers would matter. Our Senate and House of Representatives are also differentially "weighted."

It's true, when it comes to voting, we don't much care what anybody else thinks. We presume they couldn't begin to understand, as we ourselves don't, entirely. We also ascribe a innate intelligence to the collective "will of the people." It has always served us well. We are relentlessly self-reliant in this regard; it's entirely a private matter - an intensely personal "right" we exercise.

A British newspaper recently arranged for letters from its subscribers to be sent to some uncommitted voters in Ohio, I believe it was. Kindly stated, responses were at best, rude. "Buzz off and butt OUT! This is NOT your affair...."

We cycle back and forth between varying degrees of colonialism and isolationism, but "outside" interests are always a consideration: we acknowledge that what we do does not occur in a vacuum. When folks start bombing us, it's a problem, but we are not living in fear here; neither are we intimidated by it. We'll not be abandoning Israel or Occidentalism anytime soon, thank you.

Yes, we are arrogant, ignorant, greedy, self-centered, ... all that stuff. But, see also DeTocqueville's "Democracy in America" for the bigger picture....

[Niklas Nord]

In Sweden we say, pest eller kolera !

[GordonW]

Heck, I say that we really haven't run roughshod ENOUGH on the UN, given how much CORRUPTION exists there.

There is a political axiom that goes as follows: Whenever something or somebody continuously makes decisions that dont follow common sense, expect to find corruption, insanity or ignorance.

In short, corruption is the ONLY thing that will, for any length of time, manage to curcumvent the application of common-sense, cause-and-effect relationships. And with as many long-standing, interminable nonsensical decisions coming from the UN (ie, putting KNOWN OFFENDERS on the Human Rights committee and refusing to do anything to rectify the situation, among other things), it's quite likely that the thing is now rotten to the core. Somebody has to take out the trash every now and then!!

As bad as Bush might be, he's done a few things that nobody in the last 50 years has been willing or able to:

-actually STAND UP to a dictator, instead of coddling and privately negotiating with/paying off them

-actually point out the insanities of the UN, and actually EMBARASS the UN to at least make pretense of investigating things like the Oil for Food program

- actually MAKE AN ACTUAL, QUANTIFIABLE EFFORT to reform intelligence agencies, to stem the tide of deterioration that's been going on there since the Carter administration.

The list continues past that... but really, I'm finally estatic to have someone there who is willing to stand up for a principle. Misguided sometimes, definitely. But not afraid of a fight, if he believes it's worthy. And that's a disappointingly rare quality in this day of "focus group politics"...

Regards,
Gordon.

[Mr. Widget]

Neither George W. Bush nor John F. Kerry are responsible for the following.

[Zilch]

Now THAT is REALLY desperate. :D

[merlin]

Originally posted by Zilch
The Electoral College nominally confers more influence to individual smaller states. If it were done by popular vote alone, only the major population centers would matter.

I don't get that Zilch. I appreciate that weighting can give a greater say to the smaller states when electing the houses but surely when voting for just one guy, the popular vote would ensure that everyone in the country has a say rather than just those living in Florida?

I suspect the reason the rest of the world takes a different view (77% pro Kerry) is that we do not get to watch the US media.

[Zilch]

Originally posted by merlin
I appreciate that weighting can give a greater say to the smaller states when electing the houses but surely when voting for just one guy, the popular vote would ensure that everyone in the country has a say rather than just those living in Florida?Actually, it's BOTH the President and Vice President.

Remember that we are a Union of States, and the autonomy of each of them, while limited, is real. The power vested in the Executive is substantial; each State gets its say in electing.

We have the debate ourselves again and again. Folks here think it's stupid, too, largely because they don't understand it. It is a Constitutional mandate, and will NOT be easily changed. Florida doesn't want to be ruled by New York, and New York CERTAINLY doesn't want to be ruled by California.


Electoral College:

"An assembly elected by the voters to perform the formal duty of electing the President and the Vice President of the United States: the electors of each State, equal in number to its members in Congress, are expected to cast their votes for the candidates selected by the popular vote in their State."

That's from the handy-dandy $3.99 toolbar Webster's here.... ;)

Our Congress is similarly contituted. In the Senate, each State has an equal say. In the House, it's by population. Both gotta agree. The Electoral College gives election of the Executive an analogous spin....

While WE may be idiots, our founding fathers apparently weren't. Think "Chechnya," for example....

[4313B]

"We Europeans (Germans) are worried a lot about your elections."

"We are worried over here!"

Why??? Have you guys been reading stuff like this?:

Reflection on This War - One Year Later (http://www.rationalrevolution.net/articles/reflection_on_operation_iraqi_fr.htm)

[Don C]

I read that article, decided that he made a couple of good points but the stuff about the EU was nonsense. Then I read some of his other articles, and now I have decided that he is a nut.

[4313B]

:rotfl:

That's the Internet :p

It appears China doesn't want its citizens on it. :eek:

[4313B]

Mr. Widget - It appears God killed 58,405,295 kittens yesterday! :eek: The Republicans are making the Democrats collect all the bodies. It's Chinese food for all Democrats until all the pussy is eaten. :eek: Pussycat - the other white meat?
[Twat 58,405,295 (51% total)]

In other news - antidepressant sales are up 48%! :yes:
[Kerry 54,884,893 (48% total)]

Guido - it looks like the two guys on the left finally ditched the guy on the right. ;)

[Guido]

Originally posted by Giskard
Guido - it looks like the two guys on the left finally ditched the guy on the right. ;)

I'm watching this MESS from my Hotel Room in Russia. It is unbelievable. He got even more votes than the last time. Seems that the programming of the florida voting machines was done well :rolleyes:

Again, see here: http://www.boomchicago.nl/Section/Videos

And than this Ohio thing.... So who's from Ohio ;)

All this will postpone my JBL buying trip to the USA for another 4 years :banghead:

[4313B]

"I'm watching this MESS from my Hotel Room in Russia."

Wow... Neato... I think... Russia... hmmm... I'm still not over the murder of Nikolai and his family yet, not to mention Stalin... It takes me awhile to get over things...

"And than this Ohio thing.... So who's from Ohio"

Hey! I have no idea! :slink:

"All this will postpone my JBL buying trip to the USA for another 4 years"

I guess we'll just have to keep funneling stuff to you dude!

[4313B]

"Democratic Sen. John Kerry phoned President Bush today to concede the presidential election."

And there we have it!

The exit polls were kind of interesting.

Hopefully Twat has learned a few things over the past few months that he won't soon forget and he'll aspire to be a better man. :)

[SteveW]

I'm thinkin' about condom stocks. Whoa to all the young dudes that get a bit sloppy.

[merlin]

Shame the rest of the world sees regime change as illegitimate.:D

Oh well, I guess I'll have to wait another four years to visit my friends. Some people over here are suggesting this is democracy working in a way it was never imagined possible.

Still great news for the European adult film industry.

[4313B]

"Shame the rest of the world sees regime change as illegitimate."

Yeah, well, a few highly motivated Armored, Airborne, Infantry, and Marine Divisions backed by command of the skies and some WMD's as your ace in the hole pretty much says you get to say what's legitimate and what isn't. :D

"Some people over here are suggesting this is democracy working in a way it was never imagined possible."

I thought the plan was to make the world safe for Democracy once and for all. ;)

"Still great news for the European adult film industry."

I missed that one. What's going on with that?

[Zilch]

Originally posted by merlin
Some people over here are suggesting this is democracy working in a way it was never imagined possible.What? They thought THEY had a vote? :rolleyes:

Silly....

[Zilch]

Originally posted by Giskard


"Still great news for the European adult film industry."

I missed that one. What's going on with that? Pervasive Occidental Modernism at its best,

the Middle-Eastern market is about to open up, perhaps?

Udday and Qusay had it cornered, formerly....

[4313B]

Woah! I didn't even think of that Zilch! :(
So the Hollywood Porn industry is getting outsourced too? :eek:
Now what will I do for a second job!!! :banghead:

[merlin]

Originally posted by Zilch
What? They thought THEY had a vote? :rolleyes:

Silly....

No Zilch, we just don't think that the founders of democracy thought those vested with power would use it to control the electorate through fear and propaganda rather than trying to do their will. How naive in hindsight:rolleyes:

[Mr. Widget]

Anyone read George Orwell's 1984? Obviously Carl Rove did. I think he studied the fine work done by Dr. Joseph Goebbels too.

Widget

[paragon]

Oh god,

What`s going on in the USA ?????
He wins again.
Can´t believe !!

Eckhard (sorry)

[4313B]

We wanted our guns, no gay marriages, and no abortions. Geez! What's the problem paragon? It seems pretty simple to me! :p

[Zilch]

Yeah, well, you're misreading the "will," perhaps.

There are certain exigencies associated with the phrase "Infidels must DIE," once manifest....

Is there some subtle subtext, "Just kidding around" we're overlooking here?

Somehow, this does not seem to be ENTIRELY about unwelcome cultural infiltration by Happy Meals.....

[paragon]

I only love music (exept...),

So, what´s going on?
Youst hear "Howzz that" from my old 4530.
Forget politics....
Talk about music,... oh youst playing ............
Great !!!

Eckhard

[paragon]

We can`t change ....

Talk about the good things we have today.....
Talk about we love to do...
Talk about...(Yes.. talk about Al Jarreau..)
Hearing youst now with my 4530.

Eckhard

[Don McRitchie]

Giskard

You have nobody to blame but yourself. All you had to do was vote another 169,999 times and you would have gotten the president of your choice.

[4313B]

:banghead: Don - The only one I blame is the guy who kicked me out of the polling station after my fifth time at the voting machine!

[Zilch]

Originally posted by Giskard
So the Hollywood Porn industry is getting outsourced too? :eek: Surely, we acknowledge the distinction between "Art" and "Smut." :cool:

[merlin]

The Dutch film industry is of course famous for blurring that line Zilch.

here's the latest effort

http://www.boomchicago.nl/images/Voting_Machine.mov

[Maron Horonzakz]

If your not with us your a suspect. While in europe most speake english and consider themselves europeans not french , germans etc. And all love JBL.

[PSS AUDIO]

Originally posted by Maron Horonzakz
... While in europe most speake english and consider themselves europeans not french , germans etc. And all love JBL.

In Europe, very little speaks another language than their mother one. Only if you are doing some business, you will speak a foreign one, but so badly that no one will understand!

Being a good bi-lingual is very rare.

I’m not that bad as I am born from a Russian father, a French mother lived in India when I was kid (I’m still a kid); travel quite a lot around the world.

I’m French because I’m born in France, but it could have been elsewhere and I would we an elsewhere resident!

[4313B]

"Washington -- Leaders of the newly elected 109th Congress pledged Wednesday to try to work together, but just below the surface it was obvious that long-standing partisan differences were ready to erupt."

Great...

I sincerely hope they settle those differences with guns, knives, and hand grenades instead of the same old boring :blah: :blah: :blah:

[Zilch]

Originally posted by Maron Horonzakz
While in europe most speake english and consider themselves europeans....

Originally posted by PSS AUDIO
In Europe, very little speaks another language than their mother one.

Well, which IS it, then? It'd be good if y'all made up your minds, perhaps....

Allegedly, they speak English in the UK, although:

1) We've seen little persuasive evidence of that to date, and,
2) Best we can tell, UK is not part of the known Europe.

:D

[Mr. Widget]

Originally posted by Giskard
"Washington -- Leaders of the newly elected 109th Congress pledged Wednesday to try to work together, but just below the surface it was obvious that long-standing partisan differences were ready to erupt."

Great...

I sincerely hope they settle those differences with guns, knives, and hand grenades instead of the same old boring :blah: :blah: :blah:


That must be why they allowed the assault weapon ban to be sunsetted. Now with slight modifications they can all have machine guns and really get to work. :D :D :D

[merlin]

Originally posted by Zilch
Allegedly, they speak English in the UK, although:

1) We've seen little persuasive evidence of that to date, and,
2) Best we can tell, UK is not part of the known Europe.

:D

We not only speak it (in a more attractive accent) Zilch, we also write in it without all the spelling mistakes;)

I do however agree with your second point. As a nation where the most popular surname is Mohammed and the national dish is curry, we kind of struggle for a national identity. But diversity is the essence of learning.

[PSS AUDIO]

Originally posted by merlin
As a nation where the most popular surname is Mohammed and the national dish is curry, we kind of struggle for a national identity. But diversity is the essence of learning.

You are totally mistaken!

Curry is NOT a Muslim meal nor eaten in Arabia area!

Curry is an Indian meal.

You are confusing and confusing others is not the best thing to do, unless confusing as the basement of the theory one wishes to teach to others ignorant...

It is not because a curry is a spicy meal that all spicy meals are curry.

This reminds me the following story from an English man coming for the first time of his life in France.

He crossed a red hair girl and back in London clamed that all French girls were red hair ones!

[Don McRitchie]

Yuri

If you read more carefully, I believe Merlin was being humourous in referring to his own country (the UK) as having its national dish being curry and the most common surname being Mohammed. As has been proven on too many occaisions, irony and the Internet are often mutually exclusive ;)

[Guido]

Grrrrrr...

Yuri forced me to come back to this thread. With all respect. Only a big part of the french refuse to speak english. They even have a law that protects their language from anglistic elements (sounds like a desease).
But to be fair this crazy thoughts about limiting of anglistic elements apearing from time to time in germany too but will never come into law.

In all other european country's especially the new members of the EU, english is the 2nd language and most of the younger people speak it and not even soooo bad.

What do you think I'm doing here? Writing German?

[Mr. Widget]

All I can say is that as a person who is deficient in all languages, especially my mother tongue, I am grateful that so many around the World have chosen English as their second language.

When I was younger I spent a year in France and later did a summer internship in Austria. In both cases other than a few rudimentary sentences (like ordering a beer with lunch) I managed to get along quite well with my complete lack of ability with languages.

Furthermore my hat is off to all of you who contribute to this forum using English as a second or even third language!

Widget

[4313B]

"K" gets 51 % and "B" 52 % . :DSo it looks like Bush won the Electoral College by 118,000 votes. Pretty slim...

Thursday, January 6, 2005 Posted: 6:55 PM EST (2355 GMT)

"Bush carried Ohio by more than 118,000 votes -- the Buckeye State win providing the margin of victory in the Electoral College race. The president received 286 to Kerry's 252 electoral votes."

[4313B]

"I urge all people to vote. I urge people to defy these terrorists," Bush said, calling the election a "grand moment in Iraqi history."

"The White House said Tuesday that President Bush will ask Congress for another $80 billion to pay for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, an appropriation that would bring the total spent for the two wars to more than $300 billion."

I sure as hell hope that $300 billion pays for a SOTA voting system instead of the sundry crap we have to use here in the States. :p

[paragon]

Who wins ??
You loose, sorry (i think).
You loose man people are dying.
Only my mind, not more.

Eckhard ( and i loose too, because of...)

[paragon]

What`s the matter ? Time is running out. No answer ?

Eckhard

[Don C]

Kind of like a rock - paper - scissors game in progress. Saddam could win the war with the fundamentalists, and we could win the war with Saddam. But can we win the war with the fundamentalists? Maybe, check back in ten years.