Jbl w15gti mk2

[Voice]

How about using this woofer with JBL driver, anyone tested ?

[Lee in Montreal]

How about using this woofer with JBL driver, anyone tested ?

What frequency range are you after?

[toddalin]

It will go lower than a 2235 in a smaller enclosure with about the same top end (~>1,000 Hz) and maintain as good or better overall linearity across its bandwidth. But they take a ton of power. I use four of the 10" versions in 2-ways with 2425s/butt cheeks for my surrounds and the 15" shares my center channel cabinet (internally separated) which uses a 2235/2420/2405.

[Lee in Montreal]

It will go lower than a 2235 in a smaller enclosure with about the same top end (~>1,000 Hz) and maintain as good or better overall linearity across its bandwidth. I am afraid it is the wrong driver...

[martin2395]

There must be a reason that it's a car audio woofer, not home audio. I think that it's cone is too heavy to sound decent above 150-200Hz.

Funny that the FS of the W15GTIMkII is actually higher than the 2235H - 25.2Hz vs 20Hz also the W15's cone is much heavier.

I found this on a car audio forum:

THIELE-SMALL PARAMETERS
VOICE COIL DC RESISTANCE: REVC (OHMS)* . . . . . 2.95
VOICE COIL INDUCTANCE @ 1 KHZ: LEVC (MH)* . . . . . . 1.06
DRIVER RADIATING AREA: SD (FT2) . . . . . . . . 0.839
SD (M2) . . . . . . . . 0.078
MOTOR FORCE FACTOR: BL (TM)* . . . . . . . 15.39
COMPLIANCE VOLUME: VAS (FT3) . . . . . . . . 4.67
VAS (LITERS) . . . . 132.20
SUSPENSION COMPLIANCE: CMS (μM/N) . . . . 153.02
MOVING MASS, AIR LOAD: MMS (GRAMS). . . . 260.67
MOVING MASS, DIAPHRAGM: MMD (GRAMS) . . . 248.15
FREE-AIR RESONANCE: FS (HZ) . . . . . . . . 25.20
MECHANICAL Q: QMS . . . . . . . . . . . 7.20
ELECTRICAL Q: QES . . . . . . . . . . . . 0.51
TOTAL Q: QTS . . . . . . . . . . . . 0.48
MAGNETIC-GAP HEIGHT: HAG (IN) . . . . . . . . . 1.00
HAG (MM) . . . . . . . 25.40
VOICE-COIL HEIGHT: HVC (IN) . . . . . . . . . 2.60
HVC (MM) . . . . . . . 66.04
MAXIMUM EXCURSION: XMAX (IN) . . . . . . . . 0.80
(ONE-WAY LINEAR) XMAX (MM) . . . . . . 20.32

[toddalin]

No need to speculate. The frequency responses of the two have been compared (in the same cabinet) and the results posted here in the past. The Moderator could bring it up. The W15GTI was more linear across the band and easily went over 1kHz. I cross my four W10GTis/2425s over at 800 Hz just to match the front channels.

[martin2395]

A w10gti isn't a w15gti ;)

[Voice]

I was thinking on cloning 4430 (size and look) using w15gti mk2 for the bass and Jbl driver for upper range. Bass should go up to 750-1khz.
Reason for W15Gti mk2 is the price and its availability. Not sure what Jbl driver to use, or maybe its just a bad idea.

http://www.audiounion.jp/stock_images/40839_big.jpg

[martin2395]

Well...a new W15GTI here costs 500-700 euro, you can buy a pair of blown JBL 2225's or just the baskets for 50-75 and recone them both with genuine kits for less than 700.

[Voice]

Well...a new W15GTI here costs 500-700 euro, you can buy a pair of blown JBL 2225's or just the baskets for 50-75 and recone them both with genuine kits for less than 700.

Secondhand i can get W15GTI MK2 for about 400-450euros/pair and 2225s are hard to find.

[Lee in Montreal]

If anyone can get clean sound above 200Hz from a W15GTi, please chime in... :D

The Vertec 4881 that uses a 2256G (very, very similar to the W15GTi) is spec'd at 22Hz-125Hz within 6db (+ or - 3db), which is hardly linear. That W15GTi is a great subwoofer and shall be used as such. Certainly not a wide range transducer. It is not a 2235. ;-)

[Voice]

If anyone can get clean sound above 200Hz from a W15GTi, please chime in... :D

Have you tested it ?

[Lee in Montreal]

Have you tested it ?

I haven't tried going to the moon on a moped, but I can assure you it won't work ;) But hey, I suggest you buy a pair of W15GTi and report.

[Voice]

I haven't tried going to the moon on a moped, but I can assure you it won't work ;) But hey, I suggest you buy a pair of W15GTi and report.

I am not going to buy them just for testing, thats the reason im asking.

[Odd]

JBL 2235h

For sale in Sweden.

Not mine.

http://www.hifimagasinet.com/annonsDetalj.aspx?annonsID=114987

[toddalin]

A w10gti isn't a w15gti ;)
I have done both. The W10GTi uses the same motor structure.

[toddalin]

I haven't tried going to the moon on a moped, but I can assure you it won't work ;) But hey, I suggest you buy a pair of W15GTi and report.
No one is asking you to go to the moon on a moped and how can you be so sure? Did you even bother to look for the thread where I compared the W15GTi to the 2235 in the same cabinet? :blink:

[toddalin]

No one is asking you to go to the moon on a moped and how can you be so sure? Did you even bother to look for the thread where I compared the W15GTi to the 2235 in the same cabinet? :blink:
Frequency W15GTI 2235
Hz dBL dBL
1500 91.9 84.5
1450 93.7 78.9
1400 95.6 87.9
1300 96.4 89.2
1200 98.8 90.5
1100 97.9 94.2
1000 92.3 101.4
950 93.1 101.8
900 95.3 101.9
850 98.1 99.0
800 103.0 98.3
750 101.2 98.7
700 100.0 96.6
650 99.1 98.2
600 98.7 99.1
550 98.1 100.8
500 98.8 100.1
450 98.8 99.3
400 97.9 99.6
350 99.0 98.9
300 99.2 99.8
250 100.2 100.0
200 100.0 100.0
180 100.0 100.0
160 99.8 100.5
140 99.5 100.3
120 101.5 101.4
100 101.3 100.7
90 101.6 101.8
80 102.3 101.5
70 103.1 101.6
60 104.3 100.9
50 103.8 99.5
45 101.0 96.9
40 98.0 90.4
35 97.0 89.7
30 96.4 89.6
25 95.4 90.4
20 93.4 89.3

[tomee]

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?34171-JBL-2245H-vs-2241H-vs-2242H-vs-2235H-vs-TAD-1601-Performance-over-the-30hz-200Hz&p=345172&viewfull=1#post345172 (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?34171-JBL-2245H-vs-2241H-vs-2242H-vs-2235H-vs-TAD-1601-Performance-over-the-30hz-200Hz&p=345172&viewfull=1#post345172)

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?8138-vertec-vt-4881-sub-2256g&p=80387&viewfull=1#post80387

http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/CAR/Bo...5GTi_rev_f.pdf (http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/CAR/Boxes and Parameters/W15GTi_rev_f.pdf)


Lee, I see that big rubber surround, and the goofy bling-bling dust cap and I, like you, can't believe this beast would get past 100 Hz... but, yet there it is, measured going out to beyond 700Hz!! Wow. (well, there is that dip at 450Hz...)
I think this is not your typical car audio "sub"...

I think the the huge BL overcomes the MMS. BL of 15.39 is with VC in parallel (so a "4 ohm" speaker) - in series ("16 ohm" ) I think the BL would then be, well, ... 30.8!! Compare BL of the 2226G with 2226J... It would be very interesting to see the resulting frankenspeaker if these were reconed with a lighter cone and a pleated cloth surround, or a foam surround... :eek: is there an 18 inch version of this design??? oh boy..crazy late nite ideas.. time for sleep!!

[Lee in Montreal]

A 2235 will be linear from the bottom to the top of its range, which is why it is used in a 4430and is considered an audiophile driver, which the W15Gti isn't.

According to Toddalin's own words in a 4 years old Audiokarma discussion:
"...The GTi has a significant dip in the midbass/low mids, and a pretty bad break-up mode around 800 Hz (as can be seen in the response table above- look at the 103dB reading in that range), combined with a pretty strong rolloff above that point, which really limits its use as a 2-way driver... hence, it's not recommended for such."

So, we have a woofer that is good in lower bass, bad in mid bass and lower mids, then "good" again until it dies at 800Hz... Basically, we're missing what makes sound lively. Kick and vocals. And here goes the linearity out the window. Because of that dip in mid bass, it tells me this where its useable range ends. A W15GTi is just NOT a high power 2235.

Here's a link to the discussion on AK for those who are interested.
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-328589.html

All that being said, everyone is free to buy a W15GTi and experiment by themselve. Isn't it what the hobby is all about? ;)

[tomee]

.... (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?34171-JBL-2245H-vs-2241H-vs-2242H-vs-2235H-vs-TAD-1601-Performance-over-the-30hz-200Hz&p=345172&viewfull=1#post345172). BL of 15.39 is with VC in parallel (so a "4 ohm" speaker) - in series ("16 ohm" ) I think the BL would then be, well, ... 30.8!! Compare BL of the 2226G with 2226J...

After getting some sleep, I realize that I'm wrong here. :o: The 2226J has more TURNS in the gap compared to 2226G and H, hence more BL.. The W15 has the same number of turns in the gap when connected in series or parallel.

[tomee]

A 2235 will be linear from the bottom to the top of its range, which is why it is used in a 4430and is considered an audiophile driver, which the W15Gti isn't.

According to Toddalin's own words in a 4 years old Audiokarma discussion:
"...The GTi has a significant dip in the midbass/low mids, and a pretty bad break-up mode around 800 Hz (as can be seen in the response table above- look at the 103dB reading in that range), combined with a pretty strong rolloff above that point, which really limits its use as a 2-way driver... hence, it's not recommended for such."

So, we have a woofer that is good in lower bass, bad in mid bass and lower mids, then "good" again until it dies at 800Hz... Basically, we're missing what makes sound lively. Kick and vocals. And here goes the linearity out the window. Because of that dip in mid bass, it tells me this where its useable range ends. A W15GTi is just NOT a high power 2235.

Here's a link to the discussion on AK for those who are interested.
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-328589.html

All that being said, everyone is free to buy a W15GTi and experiment by themselves. Isn't it what the hobby is all about? ;)


Agreed! What is surprising, given that this is "just a car audio" woofer, is that you could use it up to about 500Hz or so, wouldn't you agree? bi-amped in a 4344-type speaker, it might work! As a 2-way in a 4430-type.. maybe not? (that 1st link I put up with the LMS plot shows 2nd and 3rd harmonic distortion rising significantly at around 450-500Hz - cone or surround breakup?)
Driving a back-loaded horn, definitely not. :)

(But man-o-man, if there was a lightweight dual 16ohm winding cone kit for this, with a 2235-ish MMS.. :eek: )

[toddalin]

A 2235 will be linear from the bottom to the top of its range, which is why it is used in a 4430and is considered an audiophile driver, which the W15Gti isn't.

According to Toddalin's own words in a 4 years old Audiokarma discussion:
"...The GTi has a significant dip in the midbass/low mids, and a pretty bad break-up mode around 800 Hz (as can be seen in the response table above- look at the 103dB reading in that range), combined with a pretty strong rolloff above that point, which really limits its use as a 2-way driver... hence, it's not recommended for such."

So, we have a woofer that is good in lower bass, bad in mid bass and lower mids, then "good" again until it dies at 800Hz... Basically, we're missing what makes sound lively. Kick and vocals.
Here's a link to the discussion on AK for those who are interested.
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-328589.html

All that being said, everyone is free to buy a W15GTi and experiment by themselve. Isn't it what the hobby is all about? ;)
I hate to be misquoted. You are quoting Gordon not me.
11-08-2010, 09:56 AM
No, it doesn't have the sheer air-movement capacity of a W15GTi... but unlike the GTi, it can do midbass, and go up to well above 1KHz without problems. The GTi has a significant dip in the midbass/low mids, and a pretty bad break-up mode around 800 Hz (as can be seen in the response table above- look at the 103dB reading in that range), combined with a pretty strong rolloff above that point, which really limits its use as a 2-way driver... hence, it's not recommended for such.

Regards,
Gordon.
This was my contribution.
If you look a the chart, the W15GTi actually goes higher than a 2235. If you were to cross it over at 800 Hz, the additional volume in that area would be a plus reducing the "gap" at the crossover point. I do use 2235s in my mains and center crossed at 800 Hz to 2420 drivers, and yes, there is a gap in that range (that bugs the he-- out of me) that is not present when the W15GTi is used.

Besides, the title is "Super Sub" not "Super Mid Bass"

[toddalin]

Now if you want to talk about linearity, between 20 and 1khz the W15Gti varies by 12 dBL, but the 2235 varies by 12.6 dBL. Between 20 and 700 Hz the W15GTi varies by 10.9 dBL but the 2235 varies by 12.5 dBL.

[1audiohack]

Some people like to argue over anything and that's not me, but, linearity cannot be described by an on axis magnitude only plot. If you can add off axis and phase that's a start.

Believe what you will but a driver with 1.600" of coil out of the gap is hardly a great candidate for a driver being used to anywhere near 1kHz.

As a note, I personally am not bowled over by 2234-2235 (tel:2234-2235)'s either.

Barry.