The Hardened Lans-a-loy Hubbub

[Wagner]

I MAY have a solution to this problem for those who would like to retain these original surrounds for whatever the reason and still be able to use the driver

It is NOT anything to do with the brake fluid fix but does employ the application of a chemical topically

I am, and have been conducting some testing with other rubber and rubber based compounds, synthetic and natural, and so far the results are good (encouraging) The only thing which remains to be seen is the long term durability of my "fix" but in and of itself it's a "one shot" cure.

I offer NO GUARANTIES except that it won't make things any worse than they already are, but so far results are encouraging on other similar materials

Currently I do not have any drivers on hand with hardened Lans-a-loy to experiment with

If anyone has an old driver, working or not (although a driver with a known good vice coil would be preferable for obvious reasons, we can test it afterwards) and would be interested in volunteering it as a guinea pig, please contact me

I can promise and assure you that I will do nothing to compromise the quality or condition of your driver's existing Lans-a-plas

If the driver is a total "beater" and has bad Lans-a-plas (white Aquaplas) to begin with then that's fine too

It's just that I have re-edged all of mine and would like to test my formula on an actual sample

Again, it it's a bad driver, that's fine too

Please, NOTHING of an exceptionally high value at this point as I am only at the testing phase

Let me know if you have any interest or volunteers

You mail the test subject to me and I will pay the postage to return the driver

Thanks

[remusr]

http://www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-Rubber-Liquid-Bottle/dp/B008O9X3KS

[Wagner]

http://www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-Rubber-Liquid-Bottle/dp/B008O9X3KS

I've used that for years; it's more of a cleaner with an EXTREMELY toxic and strong odor

The only rejuvenation it does is cleaning off the old top layer of "dead" rubber and at times will negate the need to lightly burnish old pinch rollers that are slipping............still only a temporary fix

Actually dries rubber out

Everything I've ever treated with it would work but only briefly and it does/did nothing for hardened material

What I am experimenting with is a plasticizer

And now that I've said all that, what's your point? Have you used "Rubber Renue" to successfully make hardened Lans-a-loy soft again?

I doubt it based on my experience and years using the product. It's a deep cleaner at best (and can definitely cause neurological damage if you stay around it's fumes long enough)

That shit wound probably dissolve old Lans-a-loy

Report back if you have evidence to the contrary!

[Doc Mark]

Hi, Wagner,

Where, in CA, do you live? I'm in Southern CA, and have a single LE14A with hardened Lans-a-loy surround. Let me know where you live, via PT, if you wish, and we can talk. Thanks, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[remusr]

The rubber renue is commonly used by motorcyclists to soften up rubber hoses, carb intake ducts, seals, other rubber parts and tubing. Seems to work pretty good and its effects last as long as I've needed, weeks at least but not years. Have not found it to make rubber harder or dry it out. Its vapors are very strong as you note, only to be used outside or very well-ventilated. Never tried it on surrounds but thought it might be what you were referring to. Some other chemicals used are wintergreen oil (boiling or just cold) and silicone soaking. Soaking for several days in Xylene or solvent/varsol works as well but may be too effective and result in dissolving some rubber to some degree. ATF and power steering fluid also soften rubber and haven't damaged any rubber I've used them on - car door seals, bearing seals, rubber hosing. Synthetic car oil softens & swells most rubbers a bit as well. I think the type of rubber plays some part in this, vulcanized, etc.

[SEAWOLF97]

.I think Phil may have some experience with this as it's a BMW product

http://www.z3bimmer.com/OffTopic/E24Bimmer/Gummi/

http://www.amazon.com/einszett-914806-Gummi-Pflege-Rubber/dp/B004B8GTQG

[Wagner]

The rubber renue is commonly used by motorcyclists to soften up rubber hoses, carb intake ducts, seals, other rubber parts and tubing. Seems to work pretty good and its effects last as long as I've needed, weeks at least but not years. Have not found it to make rubber harder or dry it out. Its vapors are very strong as you note, only to be used outside or very well-ventilated. Never tried it on surrounds but thought it might be what you were referring to. Some other chemicals used are wintergreen oil (boiling or just cold) and silicone soaking. Soaking for several days in Xylene or solvent/varsol works as well but may be too effective and result in dissolving some rubber to some degree. ATF and power steering fluid also soften rubber and haven't damaged any rubber I've used them on - car door seals, bearing seals, rubber hosing. Synthetic car oil softens & swells most rubbers a bit as well. I think the type of rubber plays some part in this, vulcanized, etc.

I do NOT know EXACTLY the composition of Lans-aloy but I am reasonably certain it is not rubber in the literal sense; as in "pure".

Regardless, ANY product containing petroleum distillates (or petroleum based "oils") will attack rubber and break it down reducing it to mush if left in contact with the rubber long enough.

And petroleum based "oils" and fluids take AGES to evaporate, if at all.

Application of petroleum based products MAY offer some appearance of improvement (renewed suppleness, flexibility etc) but will eventually cause more damage. Think "aging" steaks; it's controlled rot! But with steaks you know when to stop the process as well as how to control it.

With rubber and these surrounds, application of some of these products and chemicals might appear to be improving things at first but only because the dissolving process is at it's early stages. The deterioration is gradual but ultimately leads to further damage. Think oil leaks onto rubber bushings, hoses and suspension parts on an automobile; it's the slow kiss of death. And once it's begun, there is NO stopping it.

What I am experimenting with is a "plasticizer" which enjoys a relatively rapid evaporation rate and will not linger (and continue to "renew" and migrate as will brake fluid). It is a molecule related to the same chemical family of a substance used to compound SOME commercially available brake fluids but is NOT the SAME molecule. It penetrates and bonds with the material it is applied to, not act as a solvent

The concentration (%) of the active ingredient by fluid volume is also, compared to the SIMILAR (chemical cousin) component as is used in brake fluids, as well as the ratio of the vehicle for the solution's total, considerably less (concentrated).

It is (my solution) designed specifically for this purpose (restoring flexibility and suppleness) to rubber BASED compounds and materials (natural and synthetic) and it's continued efficacy (not runaway uncontrollable/unpredictable) insistence to keep on working is predictable. It stops "working" after the vehicle has thoroughly evaporated, as well as stopping after it's done all it can do.

It reaches a "saturation" point.

In other words, you can't "over do it" or overdose anything with it. I have conducted numerous "tests" with hardened cassette deck tyres, pinch rollers and capstan belts, all with fine results. I have also conducted experiments allowing the hardened bits to soak in my solution for days and weeks at the time with ZERO deleterious effects; I have then pressed these treated bits back into daily service with equally fine results. So far, so good.

This may require more than one application to achieve the desired results but one doesn't have to fear a runaway train effect because the stuff just keeps on working after you want it to stop. Once the desired results have been achieved they seem to last; the treated object is now not "addicted" to on going treatments. But as I have said, these results and observations are purely the results of experimentation and long term observations. I am NOT a chemist by trade so I cannot give you hard objective data as to why this is working out so well.

I would NEVER apply brake fluid or any petroleum based product on any speaker's surround (compliance) that I cared about. Especially if I had reason to believe or suspect that it contained any sort of rubber, natural or synthetic.

[Doc Mark]

Morning, Wagner,

I had asked you before, about where you live in CA, as I do have an LE14A on which the Lans-alloy surround has hardened, and if we live fairly close, I would not mind a road trip to meet up, and have you experiment with that transducer. I live in Southern CA. How about you? Send me a PM, if you would prefer to discuss this off the forum. If you're not interested, that's fine, too. I'm good, either way. Thanks, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[Wagner]

Morning, Wagner,

I had asked you before, about where you live in CA, as I do have an LE14A on which the Lans-alloy surround has hardened, and if we live fairly close, I would not mind a road trip to meet up, and have you experiment with that transducer. I live in Southern CA. How about you? Send me a PM, if you would prefer to discuss this off the forum. If you're not interested, that's fine, too. I'm good, either way. Thanks, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc


Hi Doc,
I'm near San Francisco.
This is not a "one shot deal"; ie: something we could do in an hour or afternoon (although that has yet to be proven with Lans-a-loy)

My experiments with dried out tape transport belts and tires were done over several days (I could just soak them)

I brought 4 hardened turntable isolators back to life with a combination of applying the material with a small brush and allowing it to pool on flat spots (this liquid is crystal clear) These were as hard as a rock and starting to show signs of cracking; took several days of applying once a day to get any tangible results

Don't think it would be very practical for you to drive up here for this experiment! :)

Thank you though for the offer of a guinea pig!

[Doc Mark]

Hey, Wagner,

Thanks for the reply. I do get up to San Luis Obispo every year, for a gig we do up there. Not too far from the SF area, comparatively. Who knows, maybe we can still meet up, one of these days. Thanks, again, for your reply, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc