The purpose of JBL E145

[Niklas Nord]

What is/whas the purpose of the JBL E145 15" driver ?
Is there any replacement?


The frame seems to be really huge if you compare to
an 2225 15" driver. . .

[4313B]

http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/specs/pro-comp/k145.htm

http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/specs/pro-comp/k-series.htm

http://www.jblpro.com/pages/pub/components/eseries.pdf

[Robh3606]

I would love to get my hands on a pair of them to drop in my mains. My 801C is based on it and it is one really nice sounding driver. Vocals are great, fast, effortless and clear as a bell. And bass is well just great. I have on the DTS Hell Freezes Over right now. With Timithy B Schmidts bass and the vocals Don Henley and the rest through the center. Definately worth a listen.

Rob:)

[boputnam]

JBL made a point of differentiating between the two applications - sound production and sound reproduction - the former being transducers for electronic instrument cabinets, and the latter being the focus of most on this forum (HiFi speaker components and cabinets).

http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/reference/tech1-3a.htm

I too, love the sound of the E-series, and have made sure the guitar player in my band swapped into the E110's (with stunning results... ;) ) for his Fender tube amps, but I have not dropped E-seires (or comparables) into HiFi applications, finding them a bit "brash" for that application.

Others out there have experiences, pro, con? :confused:

[Niklas Nord]

I was talking with a man here in sweden who liked
the e-145 more than the 2235 up to ca 600hz, more
attack he said..

He used it with 2202, 2245 in a custom built high end
model loudspeaker.

[Robh3606]

Hey Bo

You are right they do diferentiate between the two groups. The E-145 is very special as far as the E group is concerned. It has a underhung coil and is very linear driver. Just like the 150C K-145 where you can trace its lineage or the LE-15A or Altec 604. This makes it well suited for sound reproduction/home hi-fi. It also has a very powerful motor on a very light cone so it is really fast and clear. Take a look here

http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/reference/tech1-3a/page06.jpg

You should really take a look at the whole documnet. Lots of good stuff there.

Rob:)

[Niklas Nord]

That was a great page indeed !!

[boputnam]

Yea, Rob, I know. The discussion of the different surround compliances and designs I found very interesting, too. I recalled having read this page (p6) when Giskard was recently harping on the importance of surround integrity (and uniformity) while collecting meaningful measuring of cabinet tuning.

A very critical element in transducers performance.

[4313B]

"when Giskard was recently harping on"

harp harp harp harp harp

[boputnam]

"dwell on" is more along the lines of what I was thinking.


But maybe "emphasized" is more appropriate... ;)

Either way, PLEASE KEEP IT UP!

[Earl K]

Hi Rob

I would love to get my hands on a pair of them to drop in my mains. Robh:)
It's so true, so many good speakers, so little real space & time to enjoy them all. I too would like a pair , just to check out the speed/quickness thing . Would also like a pair of K145(s) because it has a heavier cone / quite similar in the cone weight to the 2220/130A but still with that huge motor. Really do need a "Noahs' Ark" of this stuff to arrive at the perfect "personalized" system.

regards <> Earl K

[4313B]

"I was talking with a man here in sweden who liked
the e-145 more than the 2235 up to ca 600hz, more
attack he said.."

Well shoot, I was going to go over the TS parameters in a post but, true to form, the JBL published numbers for the E145 are all jacked up. :D

[Robh3606]

Well????

Rob you can't stop now. Do you know what the correct values are?? :D

Hello Earl

Yeah you sure are right about that! I don't have space for one more driver unless of couse I see another sweet E-Bay deal!! Never enough time.

Rob:)

[Earl K]

Hi RobG
You and I went through this a couple of forums ago. What TS numbers were/are wrong. I remember you reporting that JBL said to measure it yourself,,, etc. The numbers I use seem to give the appropriate curves for this class of speaker. Here's a pdf of a 2 cu' , 50 Hz tuning I did quite a while ago ( ignore the date stamp ) . How does this curve compare to what you see with your tuning-prediction software?

regards <. Earl K

[MikeM]

Ive had these magnet assblys reconed with 2235H kits. The cone traveled more on the 145 magnet then the 2235h mag assbly. I bet the 145 wiil sound great for upper bass and have higher power cabable but will loose below say 40 hz. In my application the 2235H was smoother. woulnt ming hearing a stock pair of E145 good luck

[4313B]

Originally posted by Earl K
Hi RobG
You and I went through this a couple of forums ago. What TS numbers were/are wrong. I remember you reporting that JBL said to measure it yourself,,, etc. The numbers I use seem to give the appropriate curves for this class of speaker. Here's a pdf of a 2 cu' , 50 Hz tuning I did quite a while ago ( ignore the date stamp ) . How does this curve compare to what you see with your tuning-prediction software?

regards <. Earl K

Well for one thing...

Given a value for Fs of 35 Hz, Mms of 0.055 kilograms, and Sd of 0.090 square meters, Vas SHOULD be ~427.7 liters instead of 274.7.

This is given by:
Vas = (2 * pi * Fs)^2*Mms)^-1 * p0 * c^2 * Sd^2 * 10^3
Where Vas is in liters
Mms is in kilograms
p0 is 1.18 kilogram/cubic meter (mean density of air)
c is 345 meters/second (speed of sound)
Sd is in square meters

Dyslexia perhaps?
I think using 427.7 instead of 274.7 jacks up the reference efficiency though... I'd have to work through it...

[4313B]

Anyway, back to:

"I was talking with a man here in sweden who liked
the e-145 more than the 2235 up to ca 600hz, more
attack he said.."

Looking at the TS parameters both drivers have the same Qts, the 2235H has a bit better mechanical control with it's lower Qms and the E145 has a bit better electrical control with it's lower Qes.

The 2235H clearly has a "better" Bl factor but...

155 grams / (20.5 Newton/Amperes * (1/6.0) Amperes) = 45.4 grams/Newton

55 grams / (16.1 Newton/Amperes * (1/5.7) Amperes) = 19.5 grams/Newton

Wow! If my math is correct, I guess we can see why the E145 has such a nice attack :)

[boputnam]

I've noticed some myself - in the 1982 Pro brochure, p5 JBL appears to have swapped the Enclosure Volume figures for the 4345 and 4355...

[Niklas Nord]

Great, this thread has become wery interesting.
Is the e-145 a rare object in the USA?

Are there one alnico version and one ferrite version ?

[4313B]

No the E145 isn't rare.

Note that it's the same transducer as the 150-4H (Everest).

http://www.audioheritage.org/html/profiles/jbl/everest.htm

The K-series are alnico, the E-series are ferrite. JBL increased the flux densities in the E-series though...

Note that these TS parameters haven't been checked yet so some might be "wrong"

***********
K120, K151, E120, E145 look suspect

[4313B]

Hello,

If someone has an E145, I need to know the effective piston diameter, preferably in millimeters. I already have "published" notes, I need the "real deal".

Thanks

[Robh3606]

Well I can measure my 801C cone. It's different cone kit than the 145. Don't know if it because of the central spider or if the cones/surround are different.

Rob:)

[JBL Dog]

Originally posted by Giskard
Hello,

If someone has an E145, I need to know the effective piston diameter, preferably in millimeters. I already have "published" notes, I need the "real deal".

Thanks

Giskard

I have three E145's. One NOS, two that are reconed with what appears to be a generic kit ("10455" stamped on cone.... looks exactly like the JBL kit, but slightly heavier).

Let me know how to measure the "piston diameter" and I will get you a number. :D Sorry, I'm pretty much a novice when it comes to the technical stuff :confused:


This message comes from JBL Dog :cool:

[4313B]

Hi JBL Dog,

Measure from the middle of the surround :) Thanks!

[JBL Dog]

Giskard:

I measured it to be exactly 13.25 inches. A conversion to millimeters is 336.55. Hope this helps. :)

This message comes from JBL Dog :cool:

[4313B]

Great! Thanks a bunch :)

So that means the Vas of the E145 is 427.7 liters instead of the published 274.7 liters. It makes sense since JBL likes to put this driver in a 4.0 cubic foot volume tuned to 40 Hz.

[sa660]

Originally posted by Robh3606
I would love to get my hands on a pair of them to drop in my mains. My 801C is based on it and it is one really nice sounding driver.
Rob:)

ROB,
I have 2 E145 that need recone and I am wondering about getting them done.
Can you describe the frame of the 801C?
The E145 has a thicker frame about 3/4 " thick to allow for a deeper cone that usual JBL chassis. Is the 801C the same?

Do you have characteristic of the vents and volume of the box for the 801C.

Regards,

[4313B]

I don't know if this helps but one can see the differences in these baskets:

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Discrete%20Sales%20Models/2235H.pdf

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Discrete%20Sales%20Models/E140-8-16.pdf

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Discrete%20Sales%20Models/E145-8-16.pdf

http://www.jblproservice.com/navigation/Discrete%20Sales%20Models.html

I can't find an 801C though.

[Robh3606]

The 801C uses the same frame as the E-145. The diference between the volumes would be the volume taken by the 2425S hanging off the back. Take a look at the attached photo. There is a recess in the UREI cabinet the frame is thicker than it looks in the photo. If you talk to JBL they told me to use the T/S for the E-145. I have always wondered about that though looking at the -3db for the 811C monitor. I think they have the box tunned tight for maximum transient response.

Rob:)

[Robh3606]

Some decent pictures

[Robh3606]

Well I got one!! Have another coming in about 2 weeks after its reconed. There is no doubt about the 801C similarity with the E-145. The cone texture, rolled surround, and frame are identicle. Least I can't tell them apart. Now I have to drop it in and start listening.

As a side note I asked Giskard to run a couple of plots on his software Bass Box Pro 6 and there seems to be a difference on how the programs tune the boxes. I will restart the WinIsd thread for those interested.

Rob :smthsail:

[Alex Lancaster]

As far as I know, the basket of all 4" coil speakers are the same; The 145's used a circular spacer about 1" thick, which made the cone have a smaller included angle, thus stiffer, the surround was wider, for more excursion.

They were made mainly for organ.

I used some (about 6 feet long horn loaded) in disco installations, but liked the E140's or 2205H's better.

I have 2 original brand new in the box E140-8 recone kits (about 20 years old) that I would trade for 2245H recone kits.

Thanks: Alex

[4313B]

"the basket of all 4" coil speakers are the same"

Nope. It is true though that with the move from alnico to SFG ferrite assemblies the number of variations was reduced.

[Don McRitchie]

The K/E145 and 150-4 baskets are different, but are not all the other 15" baskets the same? I know this wouldn't apply to recent speakers, since JBL has developed numerous uniqe designs in the past few years.

[4313B]

"are not all the other 15" baskets the same?"

Ok, let me back up a second. If we are talking ONLY about the frame and not the magnetic assembly bolted to it then yes, one is probably correct in stating that "the basket of all 4" coil speakers are the same". Once you bolt the magnetic assembly onto the frame it's a whole new ballgame. For instance, the E130/E140... SO many people think (I erroneously did too) they can pop a 2225H cone kit into one of these bad boys and end up with a 2225H. There's an ad on eBay right now claiming that very thing. Heck, even Greg forgot that the E130/E140 baskets were different and he was in on the design of the things! When I reminded him that they had a different flux density he exclaimed "Oh that's right! Those things have a 1/8" thicker magnetic assembly which will shift everything up!" Sure enough, we went and measured a 2225H magnetic assembly and then an E130 magnetic assembly and the E130 was indeed 1/8" thicker. Brutally powerful motors BTW...

[Mr. Widget]

Actually not even the baskets are the same between various 15s. A number of years ago I used a blown D130 as a fit template for some cabinets I was building. I was using the cabinets to do some comparisons between a pair of 60's LE15As and 70's LE15Bs. I don't remember which one was larger, but one pair dropped in and the other pair required cutting the hole another 1/16" larger.

Then there are the much older models with the gussets, these can only be rear mounted.

[Alex Lancaster]

By baskets, I meant of course just the aluminum die cast part, not the magnet, pole piece, top plate, etc.

In my earlier post I should have said E145-8 recone kits.

Thanks: Alex

[mtchyz250f]

The link from post 4 no longer works:
http://www.lansingheritage.org/image...-3a/page06.jpg

[TriVista]

The link from post 4 no longer works:
http://www.lansingheritage.org/image...-3a/page06.jpg

Google or Bing "site:www.lansingheritage.org (http://www.lansingheritage.org) tech1-3a" as quoted and you'll find both the JBL Tech Note 1.3a (http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/reference/notes/tech1-3a.htm) and the commendable Lansing Heritage sitemap (http://www.lansingheritage.org/sitemap.htm)

[57BELAIRE]

The K/E145 and 150-4 baskets are different, but are not all the other 15" baskets the same? I know this wouldn't apply to recent speakers, since JBL has developed numerous uniqe designs in the past few years.

I swapped out my L300 woofers (136H) for a pair of E145's awhile back just for grins and decided to leave them in cause they sounded so good (not better, just different). I was also thinking about the same
swap for the 150-4C's in the Paragon (to give them a rest) but saw Don's post and have reservations.
Any thoughts?

[edgewound]

I swapped out my L300 woofers (136H) for a pair of E145's awhile back just for grins and decided to leave them in cause they sounded so good (not better, just different). I was also thinking about the same
swap for the 150-4C's in the Paragon (to give them a rest) but saw Don's post and have reservations.
Any thoughts?

The E145 is the modern equivalent of the 150-4C. Might be a tad more efficient. It's a beast of a 15". Clean, loud, linear, low, punchy. Doesn't have the low reach of the 2235H/136H due to the higher Fs, but what it lacks there, it makes up for in all the other areas.

Should really shine in a Paragon.

[ratitifb]

E145-8 in the L300 :dont-know: what about the port tunning ?

[Robh3606]

what about the port tunning ?

It's about 10Hz to low so it really won't make all that much of a difference with the E-145

Rob:)

[57BELAIRE]

E145-8 in the L300 :dont-know: what about the port tunning ?

If you're familiar with my posts in general you'll know I let my ears be the judge....and the 145's sound pretty darn good in those cabs. As for "port tuning"....I'll leave that to the experts ;)