JBL 2206H, 2118H, 2406H 3-way Project

[DualTriode]

Hello,

I am planning a JBL 3 ½ way project. I have acquired the following list of drivers:
(See the includes photograph)

(2) 2206H 12inch woofers
(2) 2118H mid-range
(2) 2406 Baby cheek tweeters
(1) 2245H Big woofer

This project is going to live in the shop during development. When development is complete then the finished speakers will come into the house.
The crossovers will be line-level; each driver will have a dedicated amplifier. To start the progress I have a Rane line level crossover and a Rane MA-6, 900 Watt 6-pack amplifier.
Along the way I will be asking questions and looking for you all to share your experience.

All just for fun!
DT
:)
http://web.mail.comcast.net/service/home/~/?auth=co&loc=en_US&id=276843&part=2

[speakerdave]

One of the advantages of a four-way is bandwidth limiting each driver to its best frequency band. In your selection of drivers I think you have a significant overlap with the 2206 and 2118 and a highly compromised reach between the 2118 and 2404H (?).

[Allanvh5150]

I would agree. Although JBL did use the 2118 and the 2404 in the Cabaret Series, these were the 2404-H1 version with the 2402 diaphragm.

Allan.

[DualTriode]

Thanks guys,

Your comments are right on about the “gap” between the 2118 and 2404. I have all the JBL cut sheets spread out on the kitchen table. I have not been able to put my eyes on a cut sheet for the 2404H-1. I do have a pair of 2402’s to also try. The 2402 is a little better.
Am I missing something? Is there a JBL cone tweeter that will cross over lower than this 2406? LE20? I do not want to be pushed into using a 2” throat horn. I am looking for something along the lines of a 2 cubic foot "bookshelf" speaker pair.

Just for fun!
DT

[Allanvh5150]

How about putting an LE5 of some type into the mix?

Allan.

[pos]

A 2407 or 2408 on one of the small 6" or 8" PT waveguides from the AC compact series would be a perfect match for the 2118

[DualTriode]

Hello All,

I am still studying this, “gap” between the cross over point between a JBL 2118H midrange and a tweeter. The JBL SR4735 uses a crossover frequency of 2.8kHz. Senior member, John W, uses ~ 4.2kHz as a crossover frequency between his 2119 (high power 2118) and 2404H with reported pleasant results. See post 14 in this thread, http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?19021-Diy-Cabaret I suspect that there may be some narrowing of the off axis frequency response.

pos you suggest “A 2407 or 2408 on one of the small 6" or 8" PT waveguides from the AC compact series would be a perfect match for the 2118”, I believe that your idea has merit. I have a line on a pair of JBL 2425 compression drivers with 2371A horns. These horns are really too large for the compact speaker project. I also have a pair of 18sound XT1086 horns on the shelf that may mate well with the JBL 2425’s. The JBL 2425/XT1086 combo may fit the compact speaker project.

First off we will see how John W’s 4.2kHz crossover between the 2118 and 2404 works out.

Thoughts?

All just for fun!
DT

[speakerdave]

Study the JBL 4612B. Somewhere in these threads you will find an analysis of the crossover by Earl K.

None of the speakers you cite are hi fi. PA/SR speakers, for most people, are not what is wanted in the L.R.

You may be able to use the components to good effect, but the combination and the crossover will usually need redesign for music reproduction and long-term listening.

If you have all the stuff, the best thing to do right now is probably to build the boxes and see what you think.

[macaroonie]

You might do well to look at the Econowave solution above the 2118. Quite a small horn that will work with the 2425's.
Having said that the 2206 +2425 is quite a de luxe driver set for the Econowave anyway although the 1200Hz (?) crossover may be a little higher than the 2206 would ideally want.

[Champster]

If you have all the stuff, the best thing to do right now is probably to build the boxes and see what you think.

I would agree with the overlap comments from many of the responders, but agree that since you have the drivers, go ahead and make some rough cabinets and let us know what you think. I kindof went down this path already with a 2206/2446 and realized that there is a reason JBL used the 10" drivers (in my case the 2123) in between the larger drivers (in my case the 2206) and a 2" CD. Your system is a little different driver selection, so who knows, maybe it will be fine. Do you want Great or Fine?

What sized cabinet were you thinking of for the 2245?

[DualTriode]

Hello All,

Yes the drivers are in hand and the plan is to knock together some cheap boxes to see how combinations of JBL Pro parts sound cobbled together work out. Looks Like JBL may have stretched things a little transitioning from the 2118 to the 2404H, may be not. Some people post good results doing just that. JBL also transitioned from the 2118 to the 2426 at 2.8khz (this may be “better”) we will see.

The box for the 2245 will be somewhere between 7.8 ft^3 to 10 ft^3 tuned to ~ 30hz, down 3dB at ~ 31hz.

Thanks for the encouragement!

Next week there is a pair of 2425J Compression Drivers with 2370A horns/wave guides attached arriving at my house. I also have a pair of more compact 18sound horns/wave guides to also try out.

I am not entirely sure what an Econowave is but I think it was called a horn first. Now with reiteration and a series of mine is better than yours from various players, now Dr. Geee calls it a waveguide.

The best I can sort out of the vast number of post regarding Econowave I garner from this post, “…. For starters, the original concept was a modular HF driver/XO that would blend with a variety of woofers. This was also originally designed to repurpose older speaker cabs, Advents be most notable.”


All Just for Fun!
DT

[dezmond]

You might do well to look at the Econowave solution above the 2118. Quite a small horn that will work with the 2425's.
Having said that the 2206 +2425 is quite a de luxe driver set for the Econowave anyway although the 1200Hz (?) crossover may be a little higher than the 2206 would ideally want.

The 2206 is crossed at 1.2k for most pro cabs . Sounds great with sp222's and or 4731x's .

[cooky1257]

Have you considered using the 2206 in a 2 -way augmented by a sub?

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?34265-Jbl-Array/page2

[DualTriode]

Hello All,

Yes experimenting includes a 2450.
Plus a 2245 sub.

Just for fun!
DT

http://web.mail.comcast.net/service/home/~/?auth=co&loc=en_US&id=278301&part=2

[DualTriode]

Hello,

There have been several iterations of this project over the last couple of months.

I do not like how the JBL 2118’s work out with the JBL 2406’s. In this combination the 2406’s are looking like a redheaded stepsister. The JBL high recommended crossover hz is 3K for the 2118. The JBL recommended low crossover is 3K hz for the 2406’s . Sometimes cleavage is a good thing. To my ears there is an unpleasant gap between these two drivers.

I have swapped between JBL 2226’s and JBL 2206’s . Eyes shut I cannot tell the difference. They both sound really nice to my ears. I much prefer the size and feel of the 2206 half the size cabinet’s in my listening room.

I tried a two way combination with the 2206’s with 2425 and 2450 compression drivers and much preferred covering the bulk of the 300 hz through 3000 hz voice range with the 2118 8 inch cone drivers. I also tried a 10 inch 2123. All things considered my preference is the smaller 2118 midrange.

I went looking for a smaller horn to bolt onto the 2425 compression drivers. Mostly due to size and shape I selected EighteenSound XT1086 horn / wave guides.

Hardly book shelf speakers, eyes closed in my smallish listening room these cobbled together speakers sound and feel like the speaker stacks at the outdoor Sleep Train concert venue here in northern California.

Rock On
DT

Comments?

[pos]

I suppose you mean 2404 when you write 2406?

[frank23]

I tried a two way combination with the 2206’s with 2425 and 2450 compression drivers and much preferred covering the bulk of the 300 hz through 3000 hz voice range with the 2118 8 inch cone drivers. I also tried a 10 inch 2123. All things considered my preference is the smaller 2118 midrange.

I have been playing with the 2123 and 2420/2344 combination for years. Crossover at 1600Hz is the way to go here. The 2123 goes higher cleanly, but the radiation pattern becomes to focussed, so the 1600Hz crossover is to match the 100x100 pattern of the 2344. This is also something you should consider when combining drivers as the radiation pattern influences your reflections and therefore your room averages response.

When looking at the 2118 specs I see a bump at 1kHz and a not very much extended hf in comparison to the 2123. And I think the 2118 beames too much for a nice crossover to the 2404.

See here btw for some response measurements for the 2123 / 2122 that are abit more accurate than the horizontal line that JBL has published. And there is also one somewhere in black and white on the internet: http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?29162-Is-my-2123-h-out-of-specs

[DualTriode]

I suppose you mean 2404 when you write 2406?

Oops yes that is a Baby cheeks 2404 I am talking about.

DT

[DualTriode]

I have been playing with the 2123 and 2420/2344 combination for years. Crossover at 1600Hz is the way to go here. The 2123 goes higher cleanly, but the radiation pattern becomes to focussed, so the 1600Hz crossover is to match the 100x100 pattern of the 2344. This is also something you should consider when combining drivers as the radiation pattern influences your reflections and therefore your room averages response.


Brother you said a lot in just a few words.

There is a lot of complexity to all of this, we try different things and make hopefully informed compromises. Looking at the JBL 2404 frequency response there are serious peaks and valleys above 4K hz. The response at 3K is 10db down compared to what it is at 5K. I thought I would give it a try with the 2118 crossed over to the 2404 at 3K hz. To my impression that did not work out too well. I think that in this case beaming of the 2118 is minor compared to the dip in the on axis frequency response.

The crossover from a cone driver to a lumpy bumpy frequency response of a JBL Bi-Radial Horn is interesting. The Bi-Radial Horn -6db beamwidth is 100 degrees. Ideally you want to match the -6db 50 degree off axis response of the cone driver (+-50 degrees equals 100 degree beamwidth) response of the cone driver to the 100 degree -6db beamwidth of the horn. Plus something I often forget; even with the horn tweeter mounted as close to the cone driver as you can place it, the drivers do no radiate from a single point. As a result there is a complete frequency response null (0 db) at some off axis angle determined by the distance between the points and crossover frequency, so much for maintaining 100 degrees beamwidth at the crossover point.

In the end we build these things, the beamwidth may not be text book and the frequency response may not ruler flat, I am still enamored with the result. JBL sold a million studio monitors just like this and continues to sell a gob today.

Rock On
DT

[frank23]

In the end we build these things, the beamwidth may not be text book and the frequency response may not ruler flat, I am still enamored with the result. JBL sold a million studio monitors just like this and continues to sell a gob today.

Rock On
DT

Rock on indeed! :-)

But JBL did not sell "a million studio monitors just like this" :-) The JBL 4628 with this configuration was meant as sound reinforcement for a band or so. Not for monitoring purposes where JBL would really consider radiation patterns, phase etc. in much more depth than with a sound reinforcement monitor with much simpler crossovers. Although the drivers in itself are great (I use the E145 bass myself in my home system), the Cabaret series mix does not result in monitor standards sound.

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFgxMjE5/z/SKIAAMXQQQZR1oXS/$(KGrHqJHJ!4FHI5tC!eHBR1o(R2+q!~~60_35.JPG

[DualTriode]

The reference was to the 4430/4435 Bi-Radial Studio Monitors that used the Dolly Parton horn. They did sell a million of these.
The frequency response did have some peaks and valleys.
All just for fun!
DT

https://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/443035.pdf
http://www.audioheritage.org/html/profiles/jbl/4430-35.htm

[DualTriode]

Happy New Year!:)

Back to the same indoor sports as a year ago!

There have been several versions of rough cabinets so far. Woofer cabinets, mid cabinets and high frequency cabinets for stack em up mix and match.

After trying the lineup of JBL high frequency drivers there are currently a pair of 2425HS (this was the name prior to being 2426H) compression drivers with screw on 2342 Bi-Radial horns on top of the 3-way speakers.

The mid-range is a JBL 2108.

I like the feel and sound of this current combination of drivers.

DT

[srm51555]

Happy New Year!:)

I like the feel and sound of this current combination of drivers.

DT

This is all that matters.

Picts?