"Remember, there is no substitute for a big-ass 4-way speaker!" -- Does this qualify?

[cgregory4]

In one of my first threads in this fine forum, one of the more respected members of this congregation, recited the above referenced quotation.

My L300s are nice, as well as my newly acquired 4430s. But, this JBL affliction is horrific!

And, the nagging voice in the back of my my head kept repeating, "You really need that big-ass 4-way!"

Well ........... I made an offer, and they took it. :crying:

Surely, this must qualify me as a member of the elite 'Big-ass 4-way Speaker Fellowship', as well as a shoe-in for some sort of recognition in the 'JBL Looney Tunes Register'.

Introducing, 'The Speakers!': http://www.ebay.com/itm/251519449203?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

I'm gonna try to convince the bride of 38 years that this monster followed me home from the grocery store. And, "Can I keep him?" :o:

Wish me "Luck," please. I'm gonna really need it when this piece of freight is delivered. Wife >>> :eek:

Greg

PS -- Yes, I can guess the first response: "There is also no substitute for 'class'!" But, I think I can make it look OK -- if my 'miseries' don't get me first!:blink:

[hjames]

My goodness, yes, this is a perfect starter piece for a collection of Big Ass JBL 4-way speakers!

Good luck, and enjoy!


In one of my first threads in this fine forum, one of the more respected members of this congregation, recited the above referenced quotation.

My L300s are nice, as well as my newly acquired 4430s. But, this JBL affliction is horrific!

And, the nagging voice in the back of my my head kept repeating, "You really need that big-ass 4-way!"

Well ........... I made an offer, and they took it. :crying:

Surely, this must qualify me as a member of the elite 'Big-ass 4-way Speaker Fellowship', as well as a shoe-in for some sort of recognition in the 'JBL Looney Tunes Register'.

Introducing, 'The Speakers!': http://www.ebay.com/itm/251519449203?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

I'm gonna try to convince the bride of 38 years that this monster followed me home from the grocery store. And, "Can I keep him?" :o:

Wish me "Luck," please. I'm gonna really need it when this piece of freight is delivered. Wife >>> :eek:

Greg

PS -- Yes, I can guess the first response: "There is also no substitute for 'class'!" But, I think I can make it look OK -- if my 'miseries' don't get me first!:blink:

[Triumph Don]

What will you be powering the little fellows with?

[cgregory4]

What will you be powering the little fellows with?
Don,

I have plenty of amplifier firepower. I would like to find the original Clair electronic crossover (?) plus used cables with the pin connectors. At least I think that would be a good first test. What do you suggest?

Greg

[baldrick]

Any idea what kind of horn being used for MF?

http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af232/tubejunkie/tubejunkie001/BRITTNEY%20STUFF/bf180_zpsf9cc67fa.jpg

[cgregory4]

Any idea what kind of horn being used for MF?

http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af232/tubejunkie/tubejunkie001/BRITTNEY STUFF/bf180_zpsf9cc67fa.jpg

I guess the 2441.

[DingDing]

Hehehe, this is nothing short of amazing, congratulations.

Looking forward to read your impressions if you're still alive after your wife sees what you've done. :D

[cgregory4]

Hehehe, this is nothing short of amazing, congratulations.

Looking forward to read your impressions if you're still alive after your wife sees what you've done. :D

I sorta have a dilemma there, DingDing. The seller wants to ship immediately, to keep his warehouse hands busy. But, it would be better for me if the truck driver stopped for a pool tournament/wet t-shirt contest somewhere along the way. Then the speakers would arrive after she travels to Greece with the 'Wicked Witch of the ....' uh ....... errr .... I mean, the mother-in-law. :crying:

She leaves the 10th. I don't know if I can delay the delivery until after that date. There would certainly be less 'shock effect' -- at least initially -- if I could manage that. :o:

Greg

[hsosdrum]

I started going to rock concerts in 1967, when I was 15. Since then I have seen literally hundreds of live shows using all manner of sound systems: early line columns incorporating a half-dozen 12" guitar speakers, big piles of similar-looking but different-sized mystery boxes (like the WEM system used by The Who when I saw them in 1970) and smaller piles of Altec 210 and/or 828 woofers accompanied by a few 1005 and 203 multicells. Most of them were loud (a notable exception being the Altec-type system employed at Cream's 1968 farewell show at The Forum -- the night they recorded the live tracks for "Goodbye" -- when after the first song the audience yelled as one: "TURN IT UP!!!"), but none of them sounded even remotely like a good hi-fi system, only louder.

UNTIL... I saw Emerson, Lake & Palmer's "Works" tour in 1977 at the St. Paul Civic Arena. (They hadn't yet jettisoned the orchestra and choir -- what a truly amazing concert that was.) Hanging from the ceiling on either side of the stage were between 20 and 30 large, square speakers, each about 4 feet by 4 feet, in arrays that were splayed so they covered the entire audience. The sound was SO much better than at any other show I had ever seen: absolute clarity of each instrument, tonal neutrality (Emerson's piano actually sounded like a real 12-foot Steinway, not a spinet being played in a bathroom), realistic dynamics, deep and solid bass without boominess, sparkling highs without glare or sibilance -- the holy grail of "a good hi-fi, only louder" had finally been achieved.

I found out later that the system was the Clair S4.

Congratulations on your purchase; I hope you get the chance to crank 'em up outdoors once in a while.

[Titanium Dome]

I sorta have a dilemma there, DingDing. The seller wants to ship immediately, to keep his warehouse hands busy. But, it would be better for me if the truck driver stopped for a pool tournament/wet t-shirt contest somewhere along the way. Then the speakers would arrive after she travels to Greece with the 'Wicked Witch of the ....' uh ....... errr .... I mean, the mother-in-law. :crying:

She leaves the 10th. I don't know if I can delay the delivery until after that date. There would certainly be less 'shock effect' -- at least initially -- if I could manage that. :o:

Greg


May (insert your favorite deity) have mercy on your soul. You're doomed either way.

[Champster]

Wow you are one brave man. I saw those for sale on ebay and wondered where they'd wind up... I've bought a lot of stuff from these guys and they are great. Brian is the owner. If you have any trouble call and ask for him or his daughter, Brittany. They are very good at describing things accurately. I'm sure you'll be happy with their condition.

Congrats!

[Allanvh5150]

I guess the 2441.

The original S4's used either a 2440 or 2441 on a 2343 horn. 3 way active at 200 and 1200 with passive at 7000. Not sure what ther newer horns were.

Allan.

[baldrick]

I guess the 2441.

I meant the horn, not the driver (according to specs the driver are 2441)

[allen mueller]

I've got a pair of those fiberglass horns. There was a seller selling them for like 30$ a piece and couldn't resist giving them a try. Not a bad horn at all.

Al

[cgregory4]

I meant the horn, not the driver (according to specs the driver are 2441)

From their posts, it appears both Al and Allan know more about the horn than I do. :o::o:

I do have several to try, if I don't like the stock. I suppose that aspect of the 'project' is what intrigues me so much -- the possibilities appear to be 'X - as X >>>>>> infinity'. :)

Greg

[audiomagnate]

They used 48 of these monsters, on each side (!!??) for the Frampton "Comes Alive" tour. No wonder people are still talking about it.

[Champster]

I've got a pair of those fiberglass horns. There was a seller selling them for like 30$ a piece and couldn't resist giving them a try. Not a bad horn at all.

Al


Allen,
You wouldn't happen to remember where he was selling them do you? I'd like to try a pair too.
Thanks
Paul

[speakerdave]

Cgregory4 the next block party!

[cgregory4]

Cgregory4 the next block party!

It would seem so, and this thread is plenty proof: "Audio is filled with dangerous amateurs." --- Tim de Paravicini

[cgregory4]

The original S4's used either a 2440 or 2441 on a 2343 horn. 3 way active at 200 and 1200 with passive at 7000. Not sure what ther newer horns were.

Allan.

Allan,

Would you elaborate and explain this phrase in some not-too-technical detail for me? >>> "3 way active at 200 and 1200 with passive at 7000." Thank you.

Greg

[ivica]

Allan,

Would you elaborate and explain this phrase in some not-too-technical detail for me? >>> "3 way active at 200 and 1200 with passive at 7000." Thank you.

Greg
Hi,

bass sction up to 200Hz driven by bass amp
midbass sction from 200Hz to 1200Hz drivem by midbass amp
VHF and UHF sction from 1200 Hz up to say 20000Hz driven by VHF amp., but
frequency from VHF amp by passive network devided 1200Hz to 7000Hz connected to VHF
driver 2441, and from 7000Hz to 20000 connected to UHF driver 2405., VHF amp drives VHF and UHF drivers.

3 amps and 4 speakers Neglecting some of the same chategory connected together in paralelle.
regards
ivica

[speakerdave]

It would seem so, and this thread is plenty proof: "Audio is filled with dangerous amateurs." --- Tim de Paravicini

Don't know if you and he ever met, but maybe---He was actually talking about people at the margins of the industry who can potentially skew the thinking of a lot of people down blind alleys, I should think, not us diyers, who are usually only annoying, but if we are a danger at all, it would be to ourselves and our own happy domesticity.

[wsilva]

Those are sweet, would love to try those out.

Plus you can always take out the 18's and use them as a impromptu "doghouse" if things really go bad with the wifey :D

[Allanvh5150]

Here is a slice from history. Also, if you look at the Queen video "It's A Kind Of Magic" at about 1:35 you will see a pair of S4's. The really cool thing about these cabs, they were in use for 36 odd years and were the first "all in one" 4 way.

Allan.

http://www.prosoundweb.com/article/print/clair_bros

[cgregory4]

Those are sweet, would love to try those out.

Plus you can always take out the 18's and use them as a impromptu "doghouse" if things really go bad with the wifey :D

You are so 'with it'!!!

Greg

[cgregory4]

Those are sweet, would love to try those out.

Plus you can always take out the 18's and use them as a impromptu "doghouse" if things really go bad with the wifey :D

wsilva: Thanks for the compliment -- I may have to give them to you at some point. :) However, I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around the image of me trying to get my 46" waist through that woofer opening! :crying:
As for the rest of the "You are toast comments.", I've always lived by the saying, "It's easier to get forgiveness, than permission." :o:

Some serious questions, please,

1. The seller has the 'electronic crossover' (I really have no clue what it actually is, other than the Clair design that is meant to be used with the S4.) He is also attempting to find a matching 'cable set' for the unit. Both will set me back some serious bucks. After reading many of your comments, it sounds like I would be better off with neither. Any thoughts, please? I need to decide fairly quickly, as we will probably have that discussion on Tuesday.

2. Assuming at least 3 amps and a couple passive crossovers per S4, will I better off installing HD binding posts on the rear of each cabinet -- and not using the commercial 'pin' connections?

3. I know I 'outkicked my coverage' on this project. Is there someone on the forum that works with fools like me to complete such a project? Naturally, I will absolutely compensate them for their time and expertise.

4. I am in no hurry to do this project -- I only hope I have enough days left to accomplish it. So, I will be very easy to work with, and the pace will be leisurely. The big pain in the ass will be my obvious ignorance. But many years ago I earned my BSEE, so it's not like I'm absolutely clueless!:blink:

Thanks to everyone!

Greg

[1audiohack]

Hi Greg;

You are indeed a man after my own heart! I have looked at those when they come up for sale now and then and wondered and thought about buying a pair but I am running out of space for big black boxes with magnets in them. Beware after you reach a certain as yet unquantified point they begin self attracting and it's really hard to stop them from coming to you nearly on their own. I now call my mezzanine "black hole audio".

As for the serious question about the frequency dividing network and cabling:

It would sure be interesting to get some specifics from that crossover box. I will search and see if there is a fairly complete description of it beyond the crossover points that have been listed. If anyone has more information on this, please share!

If it's possible to borrow one for a day or two and it could come to Las Vegas I would be glad to extract complete transfer function from it and that could then easily be loaded into something like a DBX260 or the like that is easily manipulated to suit your listening tastes as it's likely that your intended listening will be in a slightly different environment than they were designed and tuned for.

If not, the basics can be loaded into any DSP box like the above mentioned DBX and get started. I don't know how many raw systems like this you have experienced but they are not unlike a very high performance automobile that when improperly tuned can be, despite all their potential, can and likely will be very disappointing. Don't let this ruin the experience!

I believe those have a lot of possibility. I have some of those old Canon plugs and can send you a pair if you want to power them up that way at least initially.

On the amp side, I would put a couple of thousand watts across each pair of 2242's. That might sound crazy to a lot of folks but 2242's are at their best with a ton of amp on them even if you aren't trying to shake your house down.

What do you have for signal processing? Is a DSP system like a DriveRack up your alley?

Barry.

[ivica]

wsilva: Thanks for the compliment -- I may have to give them to you at some point. :) However, I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around the image of me trying to get my 46" waist through that woofer opening! :crying:
As for the rest of the "You are toast comments.", I've always lived by the saying, "It's easier to get forgiveness, than permission." :o:

Some serious questions, please,

1. The seller has the 'electronic crossover' (I really have no clue what it actually is, other than the Clair design that is meant to be used with the S4.) He is also attempting to find a matching 'cable set' for the unit. Both will set me back some serious bucks. After reading many of your comments, it sounds like I would be better off with neither. Any thoughts, please? I need to decide fairly quickly, as we will probably have that discussion on Tuesday.

2. Assuming at least 3 amps and a couple passive crossovers per S4, will I better off installing HD binding posts on the rear of each cabinet -- and not using the commercial 'pin' connections?

3. I know I 'outkicked my coverage' on this project. Is there someone on the forum that works with fools like me to complete such a project? Naturally, I will absolutely compensate them for their time and expertise.

4. I am in no hurry to do this project -- I only hope I have enough days left to accomplish it. So, I will be very easy to work with, and the pace will be leisurely. The big pain in the ass will be my obvious ignorance. But many years ago I earned my BSEE, so it's not like I'm absolutely clueless!:blink:

Thanks to everyone!

Greg

Hi Greg,

May for Your project would be a better solution to use DSP driven network,to day a lot of such systems are on the market.
A fiend of mine has XILICA (http://xilica.com/products/x-series-2/ ) that has 8-output DSP network, using 4 stereo amps.
With such You can compensate drivers responses , and geometry position, for each drivers sets (BASS, MID, VHF and UHF) independently.
It would be useful to get some measurements microphone and a kind of software that would be easy to start.
Regards
Ivica

[NickH]

Man I tried that better to get forgiveness then ask for permission with my wife. She's Italian. I'll never do that again, lol.

If your the bread winner in the house hold there's really not much to say in my opinion. I've seen these bad boys on ebay for the last few years and often wondered about them. There should certainly put out plenty of sound to get you a full frontal lobotomy, lol. I'd buy a pair if I could afford them, lol.



I bet shipping isn't pretty though. Hopefully you get them damage free.

Nick

[martin_wu99]

Great,but seems to be a tough job,you've got a lot to do:applaud:

[cgregory4]

Man I tried that better to get forgiveness then ask for permission with my wife. She's Italian. I'll never do that again, lol.

If your the bread winner in the house hold there's really not much to say in my opinion. I've seen these bad boys on ebay for the last few years and often wondered about them. There should certainly put out plenty of sound to get you a full frontal lobotomy, lol. I'd buy a pair if I could afford them, lol.



I bet shipping isn't pretty though. Hopefully you get them damage free.

Nick

Nick,

Yes, the consequences of that life philosophy can be 'brutal' -- to say the least. I am responsible for getting several guys -- myself included -- into serious 'nine-line-binds' by encouraging that sort of cavalier attitude! :o: Greg (Wife, not Italian.:))

Barry and Ivica,

(Barry, your " ... as yet unquantified point they begin self attracting and it's really hard to stop them from coming to you nearly on their own." nearly caused me to fall out of my chair laughing! I think I may be close.)

DSPs: The Clair is just a 'black box' to me at this point in time -- but a $1,000 'black box' nonetheless. :crying:

A quick look at the 'auction place' revealed two items that seem to be appropriate, as well as 'reasonable' in price:

1. http://www.ebay.com/itm/dbx-Driverack-260-Speaker-Management-EQ-And-Feedback-Suppressor-/371130439142?pt=US_Signal_Processors_Rack_Effects&hash=item56691915e6

This one is nearly new and will probably go for $400, or so. The MSRP is $1250.

2. http://www.ebay.com/itm/DBX-481-Drive-Rack-Complete-Equalization-Loudspeaker-Control-System-Extras-/111445273946?pt=US_Signal_Processors_Rack_Effects&hash=item19f2a7ed5a

This one appeals to me a bit more -- I suppose because it cost $2500 eight years ago and looks like it comes with a bunch of cables. It uses the DbX Driveware (Whatever that is? :o:) and I have a spare HP Ultrabook that could easily be used with the Kingston adapter.

Any suggestions on the approach? The Clair 'Black Box' may be worth $10,000, but it may not come with the keys! The DBX-481 might fall in the 'better-the-devil-you-know' category. (Another one of my ol' geezer' mantras! :D)

Sound quality is everything -- I realize that is why we do all this. My main 'preamp' is an Anthem Statement D-1. I use it because it is quiet as a tomb. Will the processors be as 'clean' and have as low a 'floor'?

Finally. For reasons I can't admit without doing further damage to my already-tarnished reputation, I have two 'spare' AVM 30s -- units for which I have great regard for their audio prowess (Plus they are easy for an idiot to operate!:bouncy:)

'Daisy-chained' together -- D1 + AVM 30 + AVM 30 -- I would have a total of thirty (30!) outputs -- RCA or Balanced -- that can each be optimized for a certain part of the audio spectrum! Would that be an option for someone like me -- ie not-so-clever?:crying:

Thank you, everyone, for your help!

Greg

[SEAWOLF97]

Man I tried that better to get forgiveness then ask for permission with my wife. She's Italian. I'll never do that again, lol.

If your the bread winner in the house hold there's really not much to say in my opinion. I've seen these bad boys on ebay for the last few years and often wondered about them. There should certainly put out plenty of sound to get you a full frontal lobotomy, lol. I'd buy a pair if I could afford them, lol.

I bet shipping isn't pretty though. Hopefully you get them damage free.

Nick

I've been married 42 years to a beautiful, but tough North Vietnamese lady and have tried every trick/scenario.
The one that works (right now), is to involve her in the purchase ..take her with me ...she is great with the seller,
and her involvement/emotional investment seems to lessen the shock.

The current line is "Oh this is just temporary, I'll just fix them up and make some money and then they'll be gone"
Eventually she forgets/ignores them.

[Mike F]

Congrats on the purchase, that's quite a piece of Live Sound history you've come across..
There had been several incarnations since their 1974 debut and yours look to be later versions judging by the driver and horn complement. Audio Analysts, a large touring sound provider too had a version.
Check out this link to the 1983 US Festival where 180 were used.
http://www.prosoundweb.com/article/us_festival/
I can only imagine what that was like.

I`ve been a big fan of those (as you can see by my avatar)and had the good fortune of mixing on those speakers on many occasions over the years. While not the most technologically advanced system especially in later years, they were always a hell of a lot of fun to work with and listen to, sounded like BIG L 100s :)

[1audiohack]

Hi Greg;

Sorry to be so slow, work is trying to kill me again.

I will look at the DBX 481? I use the 4800's (which went obsolete last month on the DBX website) but have never used the older units. I wonder what's coming down the pipe to replace the flagship 4800?

I have had no luck so far in finding out any more than has already been posted about the original crossover.

All the best,
Barry.

[cgregory4]

Hi Greg;

Sorry to be so slow, work is trying to kill me again.

I will look at the DBX 481? I use the 4800's (which went obsolete last month on the DBX website) but have never used the older units. I wonder what's coming down the pipe to replace the flagship 4800?

I have had no luck so far in finding out any more than has already been posted about the original crossover.

All the best,
Barry.

Mike, I appreciate the positive comment on the system. I know the components are there -- but can I tame the beast with my meager know-how? :crying:

Barry, no problem at all. You have been a huge help in several questions I have had. Thanks for being patient with me. I bought the 481 -- I think it will prove useful, no matter the project.

I know I'll get blasted for this, but here goes, Barry: I know the originals were stacked several units tall -- as arrays. But if you rotate one piece 90 degrees clockwise and the other unit counterclockwise, you end up with mirror-image units.

What do the mirror-image units look like? They look like dual 4345s on each side, to me -- except each side would have dual mids. What if I built 4 4345 crossovers, and brought the speaker leads to the rear of the cabinets. I could even add bi-amp capability with a high-low divider. Two 4345s on each side of the room -- would that sound great, or would the drivers interfere with one another? The box is made for the drivers. The drivers would be powered in unison, just as if the large input cable on the back were used -- so how bad could it be?

OK -- I'm ready to be roasted.

Greg

[ivica]

.... What do the mirror-image units look like? They look like dual 4345s on each side, to me -- except each side would have dual mids. What if I built 4 4345 crossovers, and brought the speaker leads to the rear of the cabinets. I could even add bi-amp capability with a high-low divider. Two 4345s on each side of the room -- would that sound great, or would the drivers interfere with one another? The box is made for the drivers. The drivers would be powered in unison, just as if the large input cable on the back were used -- so how bad could it be? OK -- I'm ready to be roasted. Greg

Hi Greg,
Looking at the pictures You have sent us, I think that 90 deg rotation would produce a great problem in the mid-bass and VHF section horizontal dispersion. I can guess that a kind of beaming would be present, so I can only imagine the rotation at 180 deg (so 2405 become on the top) would be a better decision.

May be 4350/55 crossover has not to be neglected, but a kind of measurements of each drivers section has to be done, as a kind of the "mutual drivers coupling" is present.

Regards
ivica

[Allanvh5150]

90 degrees would put the 2405's at the top.

Allan.

[ivica]

90 degrees would put the 2405's at the top.

Allan.

Yes, but mid-bass array (4 drivers) and VHF (2 drivers) may can reduce the horizontal dispersion ( either 2405 ) if such position would be taken. As can be sen from the attached figure.

I think the best would be mounting boxes as high as possible, and then inclined towards the listening place,
to try to be as fare as possible from the 'ground plane'.

regards
ivica

[Allanvh5150]

Obviously one would rotate the 2405's by a further 90 degrees.

Allan.

[cgregory4]

Obviously one would rotate the 2405's by a further 90 degrees.

Allan.

Yes, it seems to me that if the 2405s are rotated 90 degrees, then the drivers all have decent horizontal dispersion possibilities, and the cabinets are mirror-imaged.

Many thanks to you and ivica for your positive comments on my unorthodox ideas/searches for coaxing some good sound from the boxes .:o:

Greg

[Eaulive]

But then you will have the HF and the mid high drivers side to side, which will create comb filtering on the horizontal plane.... not good.
You should keep the drivers stacked vertically, not horizontally.

Even the four mid bass drivers spread so wide on the horizontal plane will wreak havoc.

[cgregory4]

But then you will have the HF and the mid high drivers side to side, which will create comb filtering on the horizontal plane.... not good.
You should keep the drivers stacked vertically, not horizontally.

Even the four mid bass drivers spread so wide on the horizontal plane will wreak havoc.

I don't comprehend your extensive audio vocabulary, but I have no doubts you raise some legitimate issues. However, isn't the side-by-side placement of the 2405 and a mid/high horn, one of the distinctive features of JBLs best speakers -- eg 4345, among others? Also, I think I could make do with 2 of the 4 mid/lows, if needed to prevent near-field interference.

I'd like to know your thoughts on these possibilities, Eaulive.

Thank you,

Greg

[ivica]

I don't comprehend your extensive audio vocabulary, but I have no doubts you raise some legitimate issues. However, isn't the side-by-side placement of the 2405 and a mid/high horn, one of the distinctive features of JBLs best speakers -- eg 4345, among others? Also, I think I could make do with 2 of the 4 mid/lows, if needed to prevent near-field interference.

I'd like to know your thoughts on these possibilities, Eaulive.

Thank you,

Greg

Hi Greg

I think that figure in the post>
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?36075-quot-Remember-there-is-no-substitute-for-a-big-ass-4-way-speaker!-quot-Does-this-qualify&p=365878&viewfull=1#post365878
would give You the best horizontal dispersion, as I said, I think the best would be to move the whole boxes as high as possible, inclined towards the listening position.

regards
ivica

[cgregory4]

Hi Greg

I think that figure in the post>
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?36075-quot-Remember-there-is-no-substitute-for-a-big-ass-4-way-speaker!-quot-Does-this-qualify&p=365878&viewfull=1#post365878
would give You the best horizontal dispersion, as I said, I think the best would be to move the whole boxes as high as possible, inclined towards the listening position.

regards
ivica

I will keep your advice in mind and probably try it first, since it requires the least effort to start with, and I'll try to keep you posted on my progress.

Thank you for your positive posts, ivica,

Greg

[JeffW]

The 2405s are to the side of the horn in the 434X series of monitors. I'd run 'em like in post #38 with the 2405 slots vertical. It's not like you can't flip them around some other way if that doesn't suit you.

[cgregory4]

The 2405s are to the side of the horn in the 434X series of monitors. I'd run 'em like in post #38 with the 2405 slots vertical. It's not like you can't flip them around some other way if that doesn't suit you.

In my 'crazy' post #35 I admitted what actually prompted me to spring for the speakers to begin with: Rotating the boxes and drivers to achieve some semblance to the 434X series, and using multiple crossovers appropriate to that series. So, I figured it was time in the thread to admit I actually had some sort of 'inspiration'. But, as Hank the Cowdog philosophizes, "There's fine line between inspiration and indigestion." :D

Thanks for your input, Jeff,

Greg

[ivica]

The 2405s are to the side of the horn in the 434X series of monitors. I'd run 'em like in post #38 with the 2405 slots vertical. It's not like you can't flip them around some other way if that doesn't suit you.

Hi JeffW,

Here , I think , there would not be the problem with 2405.
They can be rotated easily, but more "troubles" can arise from the mid-bass and VHF drivers positions, as been said in the:
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?36075-quot-Remember-there-is-no-substitute-for-a-big-ass-4-way-speaker!-quot-Does-this-qualify&p=365892&viewfull=1#post365892

even the bass drivers positions if the boxes are near the floor can produce some problems in the room.
All these are from the theoretical point of view, but that Mr. Greg would give us his impressions "when the time come".

May be my calculations are wrong but something like on the attached figure can be expected.
so a kid of beaming can be expected. here I have tried to calculate horizontal FR in the case where 4 drivers are horizontaly in line positioned, about 0.3m apart center to centre.,starting from 100 Hz to 5000Hz, with 100Hz step, so on 1000Hz about +/- 15 deg off axis woul be usable listenig direction.

Regards ivica

[JeffW]

They're not my speakers, so what I say doesn't really matter, but something about having the 2405s near the ground seems strange. But you guys do whatever suits you. I don't recall any JBL monitors with the tweeters in the bottom corner unless the speakers were mounted upside down and hung from the ceiling, I guess it never occurred to me to fly these in a home environment.

[ivica]

They're not my speakers, so what I say doesn't really matter, but something about having the 2405s near the ground seems strange. But you guys do whatever suits you. I don't recall any JBL monitors with the tweeters in the bottom corner unless the speakers were mounted upside down and hung from the ceiling, I guess it never occurred to me to fly these in a home environment.

Hi JeffW,
I agree with You that it would be strange tahat 2405 would be near the flore, so that is why I have suggested the posible solution such as in post.36.
regards
ivica

[allen mueller]

Allen,
You wouldn't happen to remember where he was selling them do you? I'd like to try a pair too.
Thanks
Paul

Looked and it doesn't look like they're up for sale any more. Keep a look out using searches of 2" fiberglass horn that's how I found mine. They won't be listed under Clair or s4.

Al

[cgregory4]

Hi JeffW,

Here , I think , there would not be the problem with 2405.
They can be rotated easily, but more "troubles" can arise from the mid-bass and VHF drivers positions, as been said in the:
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?36075-quot-Remember-there-is-no-substitute-for-a-big-ass-4-way-speaker!-quot-Does-this-qualify&p=365892&viewfull=1#post365892

even the bass drivers positions if the boxes are near the floor can produce some problems in the room.
All these are from the theoretical point of view, but that Mr. Greg would give us his impressions "when the time come".

May be my calculations are wrong but something like on the attached figure can be expected.
so a kid of beaming can be expected. here I have tried to calculate horizontal FR in the case where 4 drivers are horizontaly in line positioned, about 0.3m apart center to centre.,starting from 100 Hz to 5000Hz, with 100Hz step, so on 1000Hz about +/- 15 deg off axis woul be usable listenig direction.

Regards ivica

Jeff, Ivica, Barry, et al :)

Thanks for your help and comments. The S4s arrived today -- about one week before I expected them, naturally. Some begging and pleading was involved, but I convinced the freight foreman to take pity on me and store them for a week in their warehouse. By then -- next Friday -- the 'Lady of the House' will be halfway around the globe, and I will take delivery. Then I'll have about 10 days to make them disappear -- and yet be accessible for work on them, as I have the time. Piece of cake! :(

I'm thinking my first approach will look something like this:

1. Position them as in Post 38, with the 2405s rotated and at the top outer edge of each unit.

2. I'm no Clair audio expert (That's for sure!), but I think they used the four 2123Hs to get maximum mid-range SPL from an efficient set of drivers. Ivica, horizontal dispersion wouldn't seem to matter much when you have a dozen, or so of the S4s side-by-side in a concert. :)

3. However, I intend on using only the 1st and 3rd 2123Hs (from the outer edge) on first try. Ivica, I'd like to know what your analysis would indicate, in terms of wider dispersion, with that scenario.

4. Then I will attempt to use two 434X crossovers for each cabinet.

5. Connect four 250 watt amps and see if the music 'goes round-and-round, and comes out here'.

Then report my failures to the LH forum for all to enjoy! :D

A plan? Obviously subject to your comments and a thousand changes of mind by me. :o:

Greg

PS -- I can obtain some of the original cabling that plugged into the back of each cabinet, as shown in the eBay auction. But, it seems that single plug really limits my options to 'play' with the drivers and the physical configuration of each driver within each cabinet. Does that make sense? So, I think I'll save myself about $1500, and not worry about Clair's original processor or their cabling. What do you think?

PSS -- My cousin can make me 12 6"X6"X8" solid walnut blocks -- six per side -- to elevate the cabinet 8" off the floor, bringing the total height of the cabinet to 60". Does that seem reasonable to you 434X experts?

[hsosdrum]

When stacked vertically, the midbass drivers form a line array that limits vertical dispersion, reducing destructive interference between boxes when multiple boxes are arrayed. Orienting the box as in post #38 will increase midbass reflections from the floor -- whether or not this will be a problem in your listening room remains to be seen (well, heard). However, I think this has more potential for sonic problems than the proximity of the UHF drivers to the floor, considering how short the UHF wavelengths are and how little stuff there is above 7kHz in the signal, versus how much of the music is being reproduced by the four 10s and how long those wavelengths are (between 8 ft and 1 ft). I would have a couple of strong buddies on hand at your evaluation session who can help rotate them 90 degrees.

[Mike F]

But then you will have the HF and the mid high drivers side to side, which will create comb filtering on the horizontal plane.... not good.
You should keep the drivers stacked vertically, not horizontally.

Even the four mid bass drivers spread so wide on the horizontal plane will wreak havoc.


Totally agree. They have to be oriented with a vertical driver alignment. You need to get them high up and the only things that are negotiable would be tweeters on the inside or the outside depending on your room and listening position .
I hope you have a high ceiling and a strong roof:).
Did any of these come with the S4s?

[ivica]

Jeff, Ivica, Barry, et al :) I'm thinking my first approach will look something like this: 1. Position them as in Post 38, with the 2405s rotated and at the top outer edge of each unit. 2. I'm no Clair audio expert (That's for sure!), but I think they used the four 2123Hs to get maximum mid-range SPL from an efficient set of drivers. Ivica, horizontal dispersion wouldn't seem to matter much when you have a dozen, or so of the S4s side-by-side in a concert. :) 3. However, I intend on using only the 1st and 3rd 2123Hs (from the outer edge) on first try. Ivica, I'd like to know what your analysis would indicate, in terms of wider dispersion, with that scenario. 4. Then I will attempt to use two 434X crossovers for each cabinet. 5. Connect four 250 watt amps and see if the music 'goes round-and-round, and comes out here'. Then report my failures to the LH forum for all to enjoy! :D A plan? Obviously subject to your comments and a thousand changes of mind by me. :o: Greg

Hi Greg, May

I am too boring , but again I would suggest the box position as on the Post.36. picture, so 2123 stacked VERTICALLY ,
but if You insist to use the box that 2123 being stacked horizontally, and want to use only two of them,
then use two that are nearby, say No2 and No.3.
I believe that in such case You will use only SINGLE 2441, as use the one that are just over used 2123 pair,
and I think that SINGLE 2405 , the one near the 2441 would be enough.

regards
ivica

[cgregory4]

Hi Greg, May

I am too boring , but again I would suggest the box position as on the Post.36. picture, so 2123 stacked VERTICALLY ,
but if You insist to use the box that 2123 being stacked horizontally, and want to use only two of them,
then use two that are nearby, say No2 and No.3.
I believe that in such case You will use only SINGLE 2441, as use the one that are just over used 2123 pair,
and I think that SINGLE 2405 , the one near the 2441 would be enough.

regards
ivica

Ivica,

You are anything but boring, and I appreciate the education you give me -- you must have a huge amount of experience, to go with your technical knowledge. Thank you, once again, for your comments.

So, if I understand your comment, you are saying that if I want the 2405s on the upper right, the best compromise would be the outlined in your image? That configuration would be distant-kin to a 4355?

Greg

[1audiohack]

Hi Greg;

Have you received the DBX 481 yet? I don't recall for sure, does that one have RTA?

I see a bunch of chatter on orientation and wondered what you had planned?

I have been thinking about the driver compliment of your boxes and how I would utilize them. So a couple of questions for you:

What are the rough dimensions of the space they are going into?

What will your distance from them likely be?

How do you want to orient the boxes?

If the DBX doesn't have RTA, do you have any acoustical measurement gear?

Allow me to share a couple of observations about the drivers you have:

2242's sound reasonably good up to about 250Hz.
2123's will not play down to 200Hz with authority.
2123's are somewhat difficult to integrate but when they're right, they're nearly magic.

That said, I would employ all four of the 2123's but only let one of them run all the way put to the horn crossover. This will eliminate the interference patterns of running them all up high. It looks like the 2123's are on about 10" centers? If so they will enjoy the benefit of mutual coupling up to about 235Hz and you will need them all to match the output performance of the 2242's. As luck would have it most people like a 3-6dB step down in volume in the 200-250Hz range so that works to your benefit but getting that part right is always a challenge. I have some ideas of how to start but they are somewhat dependent on how you plan on deploying them.

All the best,
Barry.

[cgregory4]

Hi Greg;

Have you received the DBX 481 yet? I don't recall for sure, does that one have RTA?

I see a bunch of chatter on orientation and wondered what you had planned?

I have been thinking about the driver compliment of your boxes and how I would utilize them. So a couple of questions for you:

What are the rough dimensions of the space they are going into?

What will your distance from them likely be?

How do you want to orient the boxes?

If the DBX doesn't have RTA, do you have any acoustical measurement gear?

Allow me to share a couple of observations about the drivers you have:

2242's sound reasonably good up to about 250Hz.
2123's will not play down to 200Hz with authority.
2123's are somewhat difficult to integrate but when they're right, they're nearly magic.

That said, I would employ all four of the 2123's but only let one of them run all the way put to the horn crossover. This will eliminate the interference patterns of running them all up high. It looks like the 2123's are on about 10" centers? If so they will enjoy the benefit of mutual coupling up to about 235Hz and you will need them all to match the output performance of the 2242's. As luck would have it most people like a 3-6dB step down in volume in the 200-250Hz range so that works to your benefit but getting that part right is always a challenge. I have some ideas of how to start but they are somewhat dependent on how you plan on deploying them.

All the best,
Barry.





1. Yes, the DBX 481 does have 'RTA', although I haven't a clue what that means.:o:

2. What is 'mutual coupling'?

3. Look at post #51 and you will see my 'plan', although I am contemplating the 2405s in the middle, between the two 2441s.

4. The 2242s seem to have a much greater range than you suggest. I would run one up to about 800 hz, and have the second 'join in' below about 350 hz.

5. Your suggestion on the single 2123H will not be difficult to implement.

6. I have some 2445s that would sub for the 2441s easily.

Greg

[pos]

Wow, how did I miss that thread??
This is serious illness, congrats :applaud:
What is the geometry of the 2441 horn?

good luck (on all accounts) !

[cgregory4]

Wow, how did I miss that thread??
This is serious illness, congrats :applaud:
What is the geometry of the 2441 horn?

good luck (on all accounts) !

Serious indeed -- the 1004#/456kg pallet will be delivered Friday. :crying: And I'm starting to feel a little 'green around the gills'. :confused:

There have been several questions on the 2441 horns. I'll inspect, and report to y'all.

Greg

[speakerdave]

If you wouldn't object to a personal comment--You should not try to use the speakers as they are. As soon as you get them remove the drivers and get some nice white boxes to put them in and stack them neatly in the garage. Post sales on ebay for two 2242's , 6 2123's, 2 horns with treble drivers, and 2 2405's . Doing that you will hopefully net out pretty well. Build some 4355 crossovers and some of the nicest cabinets you can. Biamp at the woofer/midrange handoff. And stay married.

[Ian Mackenzie]

The S4 was meant be a an out door Texas bookshelf (4350)

I have heard then at number of concerts down here often hanging of stacks of Clair Bros version of the Phase Linear 700B which I have owned.

Nothing even comes close

The JBL sound through and through

[cgregory4]

If you wouldn't object to a personal comment--You should not try to use the speakers as they are. As soon as you get them remove the drivers and get some nice white boxes to put them in and stack them neatly in the garage. Post sales on ebay for two 2242's , 6 2123's, 2 horns with treble drivers, and 2 2405's . Doing that you will hopefully net out pretty well. Build some 4355 crossovers and some of the nicest cabinets you can. Biamp at the woofer/midrange handoff. And stay married.

Dave,

Your plan makes a bunch of sense from several perspectives. :)

But it does bring up quite a few different questions:

1. Who will build the cabinets? I don't think I'm that handy.

2. Do I build a 4345 (or 2 sets! :D), 4350, or a 4355? I sorta like the double-woofer look. I have 4 2235s available for use in a 4350 project. From reading lots of threads on the LH site, I think some might say the 4350s with the 2235s might sound better than the 4355s with the S4 2242s.

3. Phil referred me to the 4343 thread with the cc passive for the UHF, HF, Mid. The woofers would be independent & active, I suppose.

4. I located a gentleman who will build me new PCBs to bi-amp my 4430s. Do you know of anyone who would build (or has built) the charge-coupled 4343 design PCBs? I'm fairly handy with a soldering iron, having worked for TI in an 'granny line' in prototype military shipboard computers. My Lewy body Parkinson's symptoms slow me down a little these days, but I still think I could build some 'slick' electronics! ;)

Thanks again, Dave,

Greg

[cgregory4]

If you wouldn't object to a personal comment--You should not try to use the speakers as they are. As soon as you get them remove the drivers and get some nice white boxes to put them in and stack them neatly in the garage. Post sales on ebay for two 2242's , 6 2123's, 2 horns with treble drivers, and 2 2405's . Doing that you will hopefully net out pretty well. Build some 4355 crossovers and some of the nicest cabinets you can. Biamp at the woofer/midrange handoff. And stay married.

First, I'd like to play with them 'as is', so I will need access to each speaker's terminals. There is an 8-pin plug in the rear-center of each cabinet. That probably means all the speakers are tied to the plug in some fashion in the internal box for the 4 X 10" mids.

I will replace that plug with some external barrier/terminal arrangement. There need to be 10 sets -- 20 total -- 'output' connections, with each tied to a set of the S4 speaker terminals. I would like the output terminals to be electrically connected to the inputs, of course, but with separate screw(?) terminals. The whole junction piece needs to be heavy duty, and it wouldn't hurt if it had a cover available. The inputs would be amplifier/external crossover output conductors of fairly heavy gauges.

Can anyone recommend a junction apparatus that I can use in the above fashion? The outputs won't see much change, if any. But the input side needs to be 'industrial-duty' in respect to multiple uses/changes for the different amplifier/crossover configurations that I plan to try.

Any experience to share in this regard? Thank you!

Greg

[speakerdave]

You may have a little bit of a tiger by the tail. I can't tell you what to do, but if you don't mind, I can fantasize about what I would do:

To use them in their present configuration I would first have to know where the sub enclosure divisions are and how the cabinet is presently wired. The wiring from the eight-pin connector is probably run through the inner walls through small holes sealed with duct seal or the like. I would want to minimize mucking around inside the cabinet, especially if the boxes are lined with fiberglas.

I would need to know how the multiple units are connected. The woofers are probably in parallel. Two midranges may be in series and then the two series pairs in parallel. The horns and tweeters I don't know. Hopefully all the wiring is color coded, and if I could loosen the eight-pin connector and pull it out enough to see the wires, that combined with pulling drivers I may be able to map the existing wiring. Once that is done I could begin to make decisions about revised connections and amp and crossover channels.

[grumpy]

Could use several Speakon panels (perhaps using 4-pole connectors), and decide on a method for indelible label making...
that last part is probably the most important suggestion I can make.

Can make your own cables to pick how the amp end is terminated (tinned wires, banana plugs, spade lugs, ...)

[Mike F]

Unless the S4 Cannon/ITT EP-8 input connector is damaged, I would keep it. A suitable replacement would be something like a Neutrik NL8 which is readily available.
In either case, locate your terminal block distribution at the amplifier end.
If memory serves, the EP-8 pinout resembled a negative/positive
(odd pin/even pin) pair arrangement starting with Low>Mid>High.
The last pairs of pins were not used as the VHF section was passively crossed over from the High section.
Pay close attention to the series and parallel configurations of the drivers as well as their polarities
It`s been a while since I`ve been inside an S4 but there were passive crossover components in there and should not be messed with.

[cgregory4]

Unless the S4 Cannon/ITT EP-8 input connector is damaged, I would keep it. A suitable replacement would be something like a Neutrik NL8 which is readily available.
In either case, locate your terminal block distribution at the amplifier end.
If memory serves, the EP-8 pinout resembled a negative/positive
(odd pin/even pin) pair arrangement starting with Low>Mid>High.
The last pairs of pins were not used as the VHF section was passively crossed over from the High section.
Pay close attention to the series and parallel configurations of the drivers as well as their polarities
It`s been a while since I`ve been inside an S4 but there were passive crossover components in there and should not be messed with.

In other words, by removing drivers, using my Fluke, and, in general, doing a lot of sweaty work, I should develop, at the least, some sort of 'modular map' of the internals?

Then build cables from the cabinets to the amp/crossover location, using an NL8 or whatever, at the S4?

Try some stuff, and go from there?

OK -- Works for me. I guess .... :crying:. But I'm sure gonna have a lot of questions: After I explore the internals. And before I turn on the amps! :dont-know:

Greg

[ivica]

In other words, by removing drivers, using my Fluke, and, in general, doing a lot of sweaty work, I should develop, at the least, some sort of 'modular map' of the internals?

Then build cables from the cabinets to the amp/crossover location, using an NL8 or whatever, at the S4?

Try some stuff, and go from there?

OK -- Works for me. I guess .... :crying:. But I'm sure gonna have a lot of questions: After I explore the internals. And before I turn on the amps! :dont-know:

Greg
Hi Greg,

May be

https://www.parts-express.com/dual-ended-gold-binding-post-speaker-terminal-pair--091-1154#

can help

regards
ivica

[macaroonie]

You can still buy EP series connectors if that is what is on the back of the cabinet

http://www.amphenolaudio.com/Amphenol_Metal_EP.html

But for then purposes of your experimentation I would suggest just breaking it out to barrier strip.
PE have a 20 way for a few bux.

What you will most likely find inside is just that but there will also be protection caps and shunt resistors for the horns and slots.
You may find all this on a PCB or somesuch , they had to have kept it organized somehow.

And I would e mail Clair Bros for any data that pertains , I'm sure they will have same , perhaps online.

We need pics of course or this is just a silly dream. Them's the rules , have fun. M

[grumpy]

63131

talk about a divisive topic...

[1audiohack]

Now that's funny!

Barry.

[cgregory4]

Now that's funny!

Barry.

Rains in west Texas once per year -- today. Wife's car is in the rain now, but the S4s are OK. The left side of the garage is mine -- the right is hers. I've got a week to rid her right side of the S4s. :confused:

The grills are nice, the drivers look 'cared for', and each side weighs a lot! Getting them off the pallet was an adventure.

Greg

[grumpy]

That's a few barrels of fun and monkeys!
Hope the sun hasn't done more than fade
the cone paper.

[Altec Best]

Looks like your gonna need to do some cleanup on your side there Greg.... :D

Them things are Awesome !

[cgregory4]

That's a few barrels of fun and monkeys!
Hope the sun hasn't done more than fade
the cone paper.

The cones and surrounds really look OK, with the exception of one 2123H surround. Actually, the cabinets themselves are in fairly good shape. I'm considering rotating them 180 and trying them with the 2405s on the upper outsides. My listening position will only be about 20' from them, so not much horizontal dispersion is needed. I don't know what to expect from the horns wrt their effect. Is it similar to the 'cheek' effect? (4430s, etc.)

Greg

Altec,
I really don't know if I have it in me: 27? Hell, yes! But 67? It will go down to the wire! :dont-know:

[Radley]

Clair was pretty secretive about their S4's. The processor they built for it was (I've read) outstanding. They never switched over to a DSP as the analog one they built had better specs/ fidelity.

The drivers in the cabs are all proprietary. That is they "cherry picked" the components for each speaker. If you ever met an experienced re-coner, they can tailor the speaker to the application you want. So if it's an 18" driver they can use a different spider or surround than the stock factory configuration. The deal is you can say it's a JBL driver, but it's not a JBL you can buy off the shelf.

[cgregory4]

Clair was pretty secretive about their S4's. The processor they built for it was (I've read) outstanding. They never switched over to a DSP as the analog one they built had better specs/ fidelity.

The drivers in the cabs are all proprietary. That is they "cherry picked" the components for each speaker. If you ever met an experienced re-coner, they can tailor the speaker to the application you want. So if it's an 18" driver they can use a different spider or surround than the stock factory configuration. The deal is you can say it's a JBL driver, but it's not a JBL you can buy off the shelf.

I may have access to an S4 'processor'. Do you know for sure whether, or not, it is a passive, or an active, 'black box'?

Any info would be really helpful.

Greg

[Allanvh5150]

The processor was active as far as I remember.

Allan.

[ivica]

.....
I'm considering rotating them 180 and trying them with the 2405s on the upper outsides. My listening position will only be about 20' from them, so not much horizontal dispersion is needed. I don't know what to expect from the horns wrt their effect. Is it similar to the 'cheek' effect? (4430s, etc.)

Greg

...

Hi Greg,
Under such condition using in 90-deg position (mid-bass drivers array horizontally) would be OK, so try with all drivers activated. and the box 'inclined' towards the listening place

Regards
Ivica

[cgregory4]

Unless the S4 Cannon/ITT EP-8 input connector is damaged, I would keep it. A suitable replacement would be something like a Neutrik NL8 which is readily available.
In either case, locate your terminal block distribution at the amplifier end.
If memory serves, the EP-8 pinout resembled a negative/positive
(odd pin/even pin) pair arrangement starting with Low>Mid>High.
The last pairs of pins were not used as the VHF section was passively crossed over from the High section.
Pay close attention to the series and parallel configurations of the drivers as well as their polarities
It`s been a while since I`ve been inside an S4 but there were passive crossover components in there and should not be messed with.

I talked with an old Clair hand and then put together this 'first shot' -- much of which y'all have mentioned in your comments:

1. I will elevate the cabinets and position the casters 90 degrees from current, and rotate each cabinet -- one clockwise and one counterclockwise.

2. After rotating the slot drivers 90 degrees, I will have 2 mirror-image cabinets, with the woofers and mids horizontal, and slots upper right and left.

3. I will plug into the rear of the cabinets with EP8-11 inline female connectors and run 3 pairs to the amps.

4. Pins 1 and 2 should be minus and plus, respectively, for the woofers, which are in parallel as a 4 ohm load. I will use the subwoofer R/L outputs of my preamp, with a 250 cycle crossover.

5. Pins 3 and 4 are the same as above, but in a series/parallel configuration, for an 8 ohm load for the 4 mids.

6. Pins 5 and 6 are a mysterious combination of the slots and horns, but, according to the 'Dude' ;?) they should look like 8 ohms above a 1600 cycle crossover.

7. My preamp, or the dbx 481, will perform the crossover function for the mid and high amps.

8. I will use a CD player, the preamp, and 3 spare 250 watt/ch amps sitting on top of the huge cabinets. Turn the power on and listen. Go from there.

What do you think? A good first try? I would check the polarities of the pairs, but I don't know how to do that. I figure the 'scheme' I was given is dependable, and necessarily constant over the life of the several S4 iterations.

Thanks to all for your comments! :applaud:

Greg

[Mike F]

I talked with an old Clair hand and then put together this 'first shot' -- much of which y'all have mentioned in your comments:

1. I will elevate the cabinets and position the casters 90 degrees from current, and rotate each cabinet -- one clockwise and one counterclockwise.

*If your elevating the cabinets, rotate them 180 degrees and maintain vertical alignment. No need to rotate 2405s.
You will have a "tweeter inside or outside" option that will depend on your listening position.

2. After rotating the slot drivers 90 degrees, I will have 2 mirror-image cabinets, with the woofers and mids horizontal, and slots upper right and left.

* Not a big fan of the horizontal alignment.

3. I will plug into the rear of the cabinets with EP8-11 inline female connectors and run 3 pairs to the amps.

*Check.

4. Pins 1 and 2 should be minus and plus, respectively, for the woofers, which are in parallel as a 4 ohm load. I will use the subwoofer R/L outputs of my preamp, with a 250 cycle crossover.

*Did Clair confirm the pin out? I seem to recall the reasoning behind that arrangement was due to the JBL polarity convention which would put the drivers in positive absolute polarity.

5. Pins 3 and 4 are the same as above, but in a series/parallel configuration, for an 8 ohm load for the 4 mids.

* Measure twice, wire once :D

6. Pins 5 and 6 are a mysterious combination of the slots and horns, but, according to the 'Dude' ;?) they should look like 8 ohms above a 1600 cycle crossover.

*Same convention. 2" compression drivers in parallel with slots via passive filters.

7. My preamp, or the dbx 481, will perform the crossover function for the mid and high amps.

*What about the woofers?

8. I will use a CD player, the preamp, and 3 spare 250 watt/ch amps sitting on top of the huge cabinets. Turn the power on and listen. Go from there.

*Placing any electronics on loudspeakers is never recommended.
Using pink noise as an initial source, start with the woofers and work your way up using low levels to begin with.

What do you think? A good first try? I would check the polarities of the pairs, but I don't know how to do that. I figure the 'scheme' I was given is dependable, and necessarily constant over the life of the several S4 iterations.

*What kind of passive filters have you found in there? Checking polarities on cone drivers is easy enough with a battery but more complicated with compression drivers and ring radiators.

Thanks to all for your comments! :applaud:

Greg

I`ve commented within the quote ^^^^^