JBL L212s anyone? Here is my triple stacked JBL L212s with 4 Bass Energizers project

[Scott Texeira]

Still a work in progress..

[wsilva]

Interesting, very interesting :cool:

[hjames]

Still a work in progress..

Wow - I'd be happy to find ONE pair of them locally -
I've seen a doublestack before - (yours?)
3 looks just right tho (grin) ...

[DingDing]

This is awesome!

I bet such a big room with high ceilings can make extraordinary things happen! Cool stuff! :)

[Scott Texeira]

Wow - I'd be happy to find ONE pair of them locally -
I've seen a doublestack before - (yours?)
3 looks just right tho (grin) ...

Yes I had 2 pairs traditionally stacked with top speaker inverted. It simply improved on everything.
The verdict is still out on these triple stacks ... but so far I am impressed on how they sound.

[Scott Texeira]

This is awesome!

I bet such a big room with high ceilings can make extraordinary things happen! Cool stuff! :)

Yes it does produce a nice wide soundstage and images good ... the room is 27' x 16' with average height ceiling

[Scott Texeira]

Interesting, very interesting :cool:

That's exactly what I was thinking when I acquired another pair ... It would be interesting to try it ... we can read all day long about comb filtering and other concerns with multiple spaced drivers but until we do a real world scenario with our real world room we would never know. I am sure a testing mic would show comb filtering issues however our ears cant pick up this issue at shorter distances. My ears are 9 ft away from speakers.

[57BELAIRE]

My pair was very smooth and easy to listen to but gobbled up watts so I'm wondering what's powering your setup.

[Scott Texeira]

My pair was very smooth and easy to listen to but gobbled up watts so I'm wondering what's powering your setup.

Hello,
Just running the triple stacks with the one 066 tweeter in the back of each column with a Classe CA 2200.
I have played this system @ 65% for 2 hours straight and the Classe seems to enjoy the load whatever that may be as I really have no idea of the actual impedance due to how I currently have it wired. I would really like to know... All I do know is that the Classe never went into protection mode and it was only moderately warm.

[tomee]

Hello,
Just running the triple stacks with the one 066 tweeter in the back of each column with a Classe CA 2200.
I have played this system @ 65% for 2 hours straight and the Classe seems to enjoy the load whatever that may be as I really have no idea of the actual impedance due to how I currently have it wired. I would really like to know... All I do know is that the Classe never went into protection mode and it was only moderately warm.

Can you describe the wiring? All positive strapped together, and all negative together, then going to the amp? That's parallel wiring and it could present a minimum load of about 2 or 3 ohms to the amp. A lesser quality amp might've (would've??) blown up with this setup (possibly taking out all the speakers in the process!!). The Classe, from the data on their website, looks to be OK down to 4 ohms...but, to be safe, you should just get 2 more amps!! haha :D

[Scott Texeira]

Can you describe the wiring? All positive strapped together, and all negative together, then going to the amp? That's parallel wiring and it could present a minimum load of about 2 or 3 ohms to the amp. A lesser quality amp might've (would've??) blown up with this setup (possibly taking out all the speakers in the process!!). The Classe, from the data on their website, looks to be OK down to 4 ohms...but, to be safe, you should just get 2 more amps!! haha :D

Hey Tomee
Thanx for the heads up. I wish it was that simple of a formulation ...
No, I don't have the 3 pairs wired in parallel as I am running with a pair of Nordost bi wires from one of the two speaker outputs on back of the Classe as its for easier bi amping.
I currently have each bi wire connected to 2 pairs of speakers and for the third pair I simply added the appropriate leads to the other shared speakers connection.
But this is where it gets complicating... what a mess ... I have currently.. 4 bass energizers wired through their own crossover amp section however these bass energizers only take left & right signals, not a lfe connection. The bass energizers themselves have a very high impedance and I wired all 4 of them to the 4 speaker bi wire connections .... :confused:
:banghead:

[badman]

Hey Tomee
Thanx for the heads up. I wish it was that simple of a formulation ...
No, I don't have the 3 pairs wired in parallel as I am running with a pair of Nordost bi wires from one of the two speaker outputs on back of the Classe as its for easier bi amping.
I currently have each bi wire connected to 2 pairs of speakers and for the third pair I simply added the appropriate leads to the other shared speakers connection.
But this is where it gets complicating... what a mess ... I have currently.. 4 bass energizers wired through their own crossover amp section however these bass energizers only take left & right signals, not a lfe connection. The bass energizers themselves have a very high impedance and I wired all 4 of them to the 4 speaker bi wire connections .... :confused:
:banghead:

It sounds like parallel to me- but a wiring diagram would be helpful- there may be a better way, such as doing a shaded array- run the top and bottom in series and the mid in parallel with the series pair. This would increase your load and lower the output on the top and bottom one relative to the mid. It doesn't follow a coherent design theory but no arrangement of the three will, so you might as well play with it.

[tomee]

It sounds like parallel to me- but a wiring diagram would be helpful- there may be a better way, such as doing a shaded array- run the top and bottom in series and the mid in parallel with the series pair. This would increase your load and lower the output on the top and bottom one relative to the mid. It doesn't follow a coherent design theory but no arrangement of the three will, so you might as well play with it.

this sounds like a good idea to me. and I think the bass energizers are OK as you have them - they use their own internal amps.

Did you ever try them lined up side-by-side, on the stands? (Less risk of them falling over that way.)

[Scott Texeira]

this sounds like a good idea to me. and I think the bass energizers are OK as you have them - they use their own internal amps.

Did you ever try them lined up side-by-side, on the stands? (Less risk of them falling over that way.)


It sounds like parallel to me- but a wiring diagram would be helpful- there may be a better way, such as doing a shaded array- run the top and bottom in series and the mid in parallel with the series pair. This would increase your load and lower the output on the top and bottom one relative to the mid. It doesn't follow a coherent design theory but no arrangement of the three will, so you might as well play with it.

Thanx 4 the input guys .. much appreciated.

As far as the Bass Energizers go .. I really like them and with a lot of quality hi rez & c d music its just about perfect however there are times that they need a touch more output and I don't like having them all set to %80 output on the front volume knob. I wish I could get the same output from them all at the 12 oclock position. The Class D amp will take care of this problem as I will utilize the crossover in the Oppo, simple to bypass the internal amp/crossover and I will have instant bass adjustment.

I don't want to utilize the L212s side by side as I want to keep all the drivers vertically aligned and the speakers are very sturdy as is for now .. its a work in progress.. I would lose center image focus and would mess up my already sweet wide and deep stage.

That's a good suggestion for now Badman... Anyway I can get the 3 speakers to see the exact load with this arrangement .. eventually i am looking to have all speakers seeing the exact load... still seeking another set of L212s (quadruple stacked) and I would run another pair of bi wires from the Classe 2200 making use of the 2 pairs of speaker outs for just this .. bi amping. This would be a 4 ohm load which each speaker would be seeing 100 watts each running from 70hz up.

Any way I can see what kind of load the amp is seeing now? I am sure its over 4 ohms .. Classe amp luvs it no matter what it is at the present time

Cheers my friends!!

[badman]

You'd need to have impedance testing gear, OR plot a known voltage/frequency manually for current then ohm's law it out- I'd suggest http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-dats-dayton-audio-test-system--390-806 as a solution- it's a whole lot quicker and easier.

A higher load is a nice thing for most amps, but don't get too hung up on the nominal value- speaker loads vary widely with frequency and (good) amps aren't designed around the assumption of driving a resistor.

[Lee in Montreal]

Interesting set-up. But it looks dangerous. Will you build a structure to hold the cabinets together? Those could do a lot of harm if they fall on somebody... :eek:

[Scott Texeira]

Interesting set-up. But it looks dangerous. Will you build a structure to hold the cabinets together? Those could do a lot of harm if they fall on somebody... :eek:


You'd need to have impedance testing gear, OR plot a known voltage/frequency manually for current then ohm's law it out- I'd suggest http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-dats-dayton-audio-test-system--390-806 as a solution- it's a whole lot quicker and easier.

A higher load is a nice thing for most amps, but don't get too hung up on the nominal value- speaker loads vary widely with frequency and (good) amps aren't designed around the assumption of driving a resistor.

Yes thank you for the heads up... literally! I will be utilizing some type of bracing system but also I want to angle the individual speakers at ear level..
I am waiting on another set of L212s so I can quadruple stack which will have each speaker seeing the same load/power from my Classe CA2200 at 4 ohms per side via the two sets of speaker outs and bi wire connections.

[Scott Texeira]

Hello,

I recently acquired a Class D Audio SDS-470 and I wanted to integrate it in my current system specifically for subwoofer (LFE) duties to run 4 of my JBL Energizers 8 ohm subs wired in parallel. This would be a great addition to my set up as each sub would have plenty of power and I would have access to instant bass adjustment.

I ran the subwoofer out from my Oppo in to the SDS-470 and have found that it does not generate any low frequency's.
The rca input on this amp is not recognizing the lfe signals.. Should it?
Is an rca input interchangeable as a lfe input ... one of the same?
Any way that I can utilize this amp as a subwoofer amp and simply plug the subwoofer out to the amps input?
Does it need a different module or something else?
Thank you for your time.
Sincerely, Scott

[hjames]

Tell us more about the OPPO - which model disc player?

What source material are you playing in the Oppo - standard bluebook CDs will not generate an LFE -

Depending on source you may or may not have bass signals on the sub output ... its not automatic!
Are you using some kind of a preamp with a sub channel throughput, or just a 2 channel preamp?



Hello,

I recently acquired a Class D Audio SDS-470 and I wanted to integrate it in my current system specifically for subwoofer (LFE) duties to run 4 of my JBL Energizers 8 ohm subs wired in parallel. This would be a great addition to my set up as each sub would have plenty of power and I would have access to instant bass adjustment.

I ran the subwoofer out from my Oppo in to the SDS-470 and have found that it does not generate any low frequency's.
The rca input on this amp is not recognizing the lfe signals.. Should it?
Is an rca input interchangeable as a lfe input ... one of the same?
Any way that I can utilize this amp as a subwoofer amp and simply plug the subwoofer out to the amps input?
Does it need a different module or something else?
Thank you for your time.
Sincerely, Scott

[Scott Texeira]

Tell us more about the OPPO - which model disc player?

What source material are you playing in the Oppo - standard bluebook CDs will not generate an LFE -

Depending on source you may or may not have bass signals on the sub output ... its not automatic!
Are you using some kind of a preamp with a sub channel throughput, or just a 2 channel preamp?

Hey James ..
Oppo 105D and utilizing its preamp .
I did an A B utilizing the exact same connections with a plate amp and the plate amp picks up the subwoofer signal and runs the sub from the Oppo no prob

[Scott Texeira]

Still stumped ... a bad Class D Audio amp?

[hjames]

Still stumped ... a bad Class D Audio amp?

Have you tested the class A amp with normal left and right inputs and a pair of conventional speakers??

And again, what source - CD? Bluray?

[Scott Texeira]

Have you tested the class A amp with normal left and right inputs and a pair of conventional speakers??

And again, what source - CD? Bluray?


Yes I disconnected my balanced inputs from my Classe amp and put the Class D Audio amp in to the chain and it did play the left & right channels, 70 hz and up... but cant play the under 70 hz via the line out from the Oppo subwoofer out. ?

Right now the source is hi rez usb Puddy Roots that has a lot of bass and runs the sub frequencies thru the plate amp no prob but not the Class D Audi.. the subwoofer cable is long 30ft but not sure why that would matter as the plate amp sees the signal

[DingDing]

Still stumped ... a bad Class D Audio amp?

Scott, in this picture you have the sub out from your Oppo into only one channel of the Class D amplifier (the right channel), and trying to run both subs from the left and right channels. You need a Y-splitter to get the LFE signal into both RCA-inputs (left and right channels) of the Class D amp.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=62929&stc=1&d=1408315024

You should wire things up as such:

Oppo -> LFE out -> Y-splitter -> RCA left and right channel of the Class D amplifier.

Please also make sure the inputs on the rare of your Class D amp is set to RCA.

Now, you're trying to put the LFE signal into only one channel of the amp and drive two subs through the left and right channel. When you use a Y-splitter to get the LFE signal into both left and right channels, you will have audio in both of your subwoofers. With your current setup there should be audio in one of your subwoofers, but not both since only one channel is receiving the signal. By the looks of your pictures, it should be the subwoofer connected to the right side binding posts that gets the signal. Please double check it.

[Scott Texeira]

Scott, in this picture you have the sub out from your Oppo into only one channel of the Class D amplifier (the right channel), and trying to run both subs from the left and right channels. You need a Y-splitter to get the LFE signal into both RCA-inputs (left and right channels) of the Class D amp.


http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=62929&stc=1&d=1408315024

You should wire things up as such:

Oppo -> LFE out -> Y-splitter -> RCA left and right channel of the Class D amplifier.

Please also make sure the inputs on the rare of your Class D amp is set to RCA.

Now, you're trying to put the LFE signal into only one channel of the amp and drive two subs through the left and right channel. When you use a Y-splitter to get the LFE signal into both left and right channels, you will have audio in both of your subwoofers. With your current setup there should be audio in one of your subwoofers, but not both since only one channel is receiving the signal. By the looks of your pictures, it should be the subwoofer connected to the right side binding posts that gets the signal. Please double check it.

Hey Ding!
Yes in this pic I just currently have the right input on the amp actually connected from the Oppo and out to 1 sub. I took the y cable out of the equation in attempts to figuring out the problem, process of elimination.
My next step is to look under the hood. I will be taken a look at the boards/connections and hopefully will be able to visually see something amiss.
Thank you for helpin out!

[DingDing]

Ok.

Have you tried turning the gain potentiometer at the rear of your Class D Audio amplifier to the maximum, just to see if anything happens?

It's weird that the Class D Audio amp plays normal left and right channels just fine, but not the LFE signal when your plate amp plays the same LFE signal.

I don't use LFE myself, I do all xovers in miniDSP 4x10 HD. Maybe you should write Class D Audio and ask if the amplifier is suitable to receive an LFE signal? Don't understand why it shouldn't be able to receive it though. It's an analog signal just like normal RCA.

[Scott Texeira]

Ok.

Have you tried turning the gain potentiometer at the rear of your Class D Audio amplifier to the maximum, just to see if anything happens?

It's weird that the Class D Audio amp plays normal left and right channels just fine, but not the LFE signal when your plate amp plays the same LFE signal.

I don't use LFE myself, I do all xovers in miniDSP 4x10 HD. Maybe you should write Class D Audio and ask if the amplifier is suitable to receive an LFE signal? Don't understand why it shouldn't be able to receive it though. It's an analog signal just like normal RCA.

Yes, I put up the gain all the way and just hear an electrical humming noise.

Ya ... I dont get it either .. I am going to be looking under the hood this evening to hopefully find something amiss visually.

[DingDing]

Hmmm, I don't understand the "maps and orcas" reference, care to elaborate? I've been eying an amp from the Class D Audio company myself, but now I get concerned about the customer service.

Back to the Oppo 105D and the LFE output. I'm assuming you're using the SW output as indicated by the red rectangle in this screenshot from their manual?

62937

What happens if you do the exact same thing you're doing with the SDS-470 into your Classé amp? Ie, disconnect everything and try running the Classé as a subwoofer amp.

[hjames]

Right now the source is hi rez usb Puddy Roots that has a lot of bass and runs the sub frequencies thru the plate amp no prob but not the Class D Audi.. the subwoofer cable is long 30ft but not sure why that would matter as the plate amp sees the signal

Troubleshooting is simplifying until you find the point of failure ... so please bear with me if I seem to be overly simple.

Skip the Y cables and all that stuff - just feed the SW out from the OPPO into one channel of the Class D amp and have that feed a single input on your subwoofer.

How do you get this source (hi rez usb Puddy Roots?) into the OPPO? I am not familiar with Puddy Roots so be specific with details. Please explain EXACTLY how this source is connected.
Does this source generate an LFE signal (or any kind of signal) on the SW output of the OPPO?

With that source running, you connect the SW out of the OPPO to the plate amp and get sound?
With that source running, you connect the SW out of the OPPO to a single channel of the Class D amp and get - no sound?

[Scott Texeira]

Troubleshooting is simplifying until you find the point of failure ... so please bear with me if I seem to be overly simple.

Skip the Y cables and all that stuff - just feed the SW out from the OPPO into one channel of the Class D amp and have that feed a single input on your subwoofer.

How do you get this source (hi rez usb Puddy Roots?) into the OPPO? I am not familiar with Puddy Roots so be specific with details. Please explain EXACTLY how this source is connected.
Does this source generate an LFE signal (or any kind of signal) on the SW output of the OPPO?

With that source running, you connect the SW out of the OPPO to the plate amp and get sound?
With that source running, you connect the SW out of the OPPO to a single channel of the Class D amp and get - no sound?


Hmmm, I don't understand the "maps and orcas" reference, care to elaborate? I've been eying an amp from the Class D Audio company myself, but now I get concerned about the customer service.

Back to the Oppo 105D and the LFE output. I'm assuming you're using the SW output as indicated by the red rectangle in this screenshot from their manual?

62937

What happens if you do the exact same thing you're doing with the SDS-470 into your Classé amp? Ie, disconnect everything and try running the Classé as a subwoofer amp.

Hey guys .. verdict is out .. long story short .. it was after all a faulty amp.
Tom from Class D Audio called me. Excellent customer service.. just have to ship amp to them and they will fix it!
He was previously typing from a tablet and his auto correction function was sending me some weird emails in regards to maps & orcas! lol

[Odd]

Class D Audio

I only have positive experience with Tom from Class D Audio