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paragon
10-27-2004, 11:04 AM
Thank you Bo !

paragon
10-27-2004, 11:06 AM
Thanks Guido !

Guido
10-27-2004, 11:34 AM
Perfect Work!
Glue is still wet, be careful!

COOL :cool:

4313B
10-27-2004, 11:46 AM
Awww! That LE10 is SOOOO cute! :nutz: :nutz: :nutz:

paragon
10-27-2004, 12:23 PM
Thanks boys,

Still running with the 30 Hz sinewave till tomorrow.
Only hear the pumping air.

Eckhard

paragon
10-27-2004, 12:33 PM
Not easy to put the glue on the backside of the cone,
because of the frame. Did anyone tried an injection needle ?
The glue smells like wood glue. Is it nearly the same ?
See the black shadows around the mounting hole.
How can i remove this ?

Eckhard

speakerdave
10-27-2004, 06:36 PM
When I did my 2231's I fitted the new surround loosely in place and then turned the speaker on its face. To keep the surround clear of the working surface I supported the outer rim of the driver on two pieces of the mounting gasket that is provided so the speaker can be mounted from inside the cabinet. With this setup I had access to the rear of the edge of the cone except that the foam was in the way. I needed a tool I could use to fold the foam back that had no sharp edges or points that could catch in the foam and tear it. I had two that worked perfectly; one was a tack remover, which is like a screw driver except it as a thing kind of like a hammer claw at the end instead of a blade. The other was the bottle opener on the Leatherman my son gave me for Christmas last year. With the tool in one hand and the glue bottle in the other I was able to pull the foam back just in front of the glue spout as I moved the two together along the edge, working between the struts of the frame. With a little practice I became adept at reaching behind the frame members to apply glue to that part of the cone. When I had finished a section I put down both tools and picked the driver up with both hands and set it down again on the pieces of gasket in another position. I worked as quickly as I could so that the glue would not set up before I was all the way around. I then turned the driver onto its back again and repeatedly pinched the foam against the glue as described by Bo until it set up. This method worked very well for me.

David

analogman
10-27-2004, 07:28 PM
Could someone please direct me to Bo's tutorial?
Thank you,
Analogman

Mr. Widget
10-27-2004, 08:19 PM
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=469

paragon
10-28-2004, 05:11 AM
Look what happend to my 2. LE 10A :(
What can i do now ?? Not refoamed now.

Earl K
10-28-2004, 05:39 AM
Ouch ! Sorry to see that has happened . :(

IME: Not much you can do / if anything to fix that frame .

If the cone still works without rubbing - I'd use it as is . If the frame edge was "bent" in the mishap ( usually happens ) then you may need to mount the speaker with an extra thick foam gasket - to create a good seal. You may also need to use mounting clamps instead of just the screws/bolts - to keep it in place .

JBL used to sell just a replacement frame assembly for the LE10a.

It was number MS20577. ( in a 1980 parts book )

I looked into getting a replacement frame for a similar type break . (eBay :biting: )

I was told by JBL Canada - that this part or its' newer part number is not available .

<. Earl K

Maron Horonzakz
10-28-2004, 06:22 AM
Paragon........Try JB Weld. And use alot onthe back side as well as on the broken edge. later you can file for a smoother finish. Ive repaired engine blocks with this stiff and it holds.

boputnam
10-28-2004, 07:13 AM
Originally posted by paragon
Look what happend to my 2. LE 10A :(
Dood!! :( What a drag!

How did that happen? Ouch!

Here's a Link for JB weld - if you need some shipped across, lemme know. I've not tried it, but Maron seems quite fond of it!

http://www.jbweld.net/ - "Find a Dealer" shows it can be found across the water...

Good luck! :yes:

paragon
10-28-2004, 08:53 AM
Thank you all for help !

There must be a "haircut" (?) before it`s broken.
Falling down on the table right on this edge from a height of 4 inch or so.
This edge is a little "deformed" (if you understand), so the driver must had fallen down before i bought it.
Try to find some "metal glue" here and will fix it.
Driver is still working witout rubbing or noise.

Best Regards
Eckhard :rolleyes:

paragon
10-28-2004, 09:06 AM
By the way,

Other speaker is working very well. Glue is dried and every thing is ok.
Time was about 2 hours to fix the new foam without cleaning the driver.
Put the glue very thin on the backside and the basket.
Put to much glue to fix the rubber ring, so i had to remove it with a wet cloth from the basket and the surround.
But all is looking good now, glue dried clear and you see nothing.
Surround is a very good matching part (Thank`s Guido).

Eckhard

Robh3606
10-28-2004, 09:16 AM
Oh man that stinks:banghead:

I would go to an autoparts store and get a structural epoxy they use to bond metals. You have nothing to loose. Short of welding you are out of luck.

Good Luck

Rob:)

paragon
10-28-2004, 09:26 AM
Thank you Rob.

Eckhard

boputnam
10-28-2004, 09:51 AM
Yea, the other concern I have is there is limited frame to ensure you will get an air-tight seal with the baffle.

Beautiful job on the re-surround! In future, remember that MEK, while dangerous, is a wonderful solvent that can be quite a help when old glue - and new too - get's messy and needs cleaning-up. :yes:

paragon
10-28-2004, 10:01 AM
Thank`s Bo,

I have to read some messages a lot to understand, but i remember !!
Did someone refoamed "cloth surrounds" ?
The surrounds of my old (25 years) 2205A are still working
but dry.
Is it time to resourround them ?? What do you think?
I think no.

Thankīs Eckhard

boputnam
10-28-2004, 10:50 AM
Originally posted by paragon
What do you think? :hmm:

I don't know. I've not done any of the cloth surrounds I've come across - they were all in good condition. If you think your 2205's are out of specification, maybe Giskard, Rob, Earl, GordonW or someone else more experienced than I am could better answer this question.

Zilch
10-28-2004, 11:15 AM
While it's true that aluminum can be welded, the chances of success with thin cast aluminum are virtually nil.

It'll smoke the foam and rubber, of course, as well.

Start over, maybe? (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=61377&item=5728355621&rd=1)

OR, just a frame? (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5725998812)

paragon
10-28-2004, 11:22 AM
Yes Bo,

Of course they are out of spec.
But there is no great change working in my 4530 i think.
Maybe there is a change working in my "Bandpass enclosures".
Is it the right explain? Understand?

Eckhard

paragon
10-28-2004, 11:30 AM
What`s your name zilch?,
Doen`t understand your answer, sorry.
But you want, that i buy another LE10 and refoame this.
Yes, thatīs a clue.
Sending from America is very expensieve.
Will see.

Eckhard

paragon
10-28-2004, 11:35 AM
Understand !
We have a Laser welding machine in our factory.
Maybe they can fix it.
We fix and polish CD,DVD mould parts in our factory.
Maybe it works.

Thank`s Eckhard

paragon
10-28-2004, 11:57 AM
So, if you have something to laser welding, youst let me know.
And we can also (grind ?) it.
Doen`t know the price and time, youst ask.

Eckhard

paragon
10-28-2004, 12:25 PM
Well, i ask a german (friend)?,

Guido, what do you think about old cloth surrounds ??

Eckhard

paragon
10-28-2004, 12:52 PM
Look this,

It`s an Rcf i bought youst now, what do you think?
Very good speaker, Alu Frame, Double half roll clotht sourround,
heavy iron magnet, 7mm pole plate, 6mm baxk plate,opening at the back. Looks like never used.
Eckhard

paragon
10-28-2004, 12:53 PM
Back side

John
10-28-2004, 12:57 PM
I do not think you would have any luck welding that LE10 with the cone assembly in there,plus the heat would warp the frame as well. I would also try the JB weld epoxy. Also when you install the woofer on the baffle board put a nice fat bead of latex chalking on the baffle board and sink the woofer into it. Wipe off the chalk that oozes out of the frame and you should get a good seal. By the way what is your intended use for those,share some details with us on this forum.:blah:

paragon
10-28-2004, 01:24 PM
Yes John, i will do so.

Eckhard

speakerdave
10-28-2004, 04:16 PM
Originally posted by paragon
There must be a "haircut" (?) before it`s broken.
"haircut"="hairline fracture"

(I think this might be the phrase you were looking for)

David

paragon
11-03-2004, 07:21 AM
Thanks David and other,

We have a laser welding machine in our factory.
Let see how it works.
The Le 10 A`s are not for a new project now.
May be later. Just want to refoame both.

Eckhard

paragon
11-04-2004, 11:01 AM
Seems it works.:D
Look at the screw hole.

Eckhard

paragon
11-11-2004, 08:38 AM
1. Front side

paragon
11-11-2004, 08:40 AM
2. Back side

paragon
11-11-2004, 08:43 AM
4. Working

paragon
11-11-2004, 08:45 AM
5. Working

paragon
11-11-2004, 08:47 AM
6. finished and looks good.

boputnam
11-11-2004, 09:28 AM
:shock:

Wow!! :thmbsup:

Alex Lancaster
11-11-2004, 09:37 AM
:) :) :) Wish You were here:smthsail: :smthsail: :smthsail:

Earl K
11-11-2004, 09:44 AM
Gee ,,,

Real Nice Work, Eckhard ! :wave: :thmbsup:

Any chance of it rebreaking if you over-torque a screw/bolt into the hole ?

or is it quite strong ? ( I have a broken le10 basket, just like yours was )

regards <. Earl K

paragon
11-11-2004, 10:50 AM
:D Thanks boys,

Iīm very happy about. Good work from our man on the lasermachine.
Earl, it`s quite strong. Hard work to get the old foam off.

Eckhard

speakerdave
11-11-2004, 10:57 AM
Nifty repair job, Eckhard.

paragon
11-11-2004, 11:22 AM
If you donīt know, you can`t see that the basket was broken.
The broken part is on top right of the last pic.
How is the magnet motor fixed to the basket ?

Lets rock !! :p
Eckhard

Earl K
11-11-2004, 11:49 AM
How is the magnet motor fixed to the basket ?

From that generation of transducers; usually lightly glued and screwed/bolted into a tapped/threaded top-plate.

Since the late 90(s) , this method might have been altered. I had a 2012HPL start to lose/shed it's magnet about 15 months ago. The problem is weight related. The 2012 magnet is about 7 lbs heavier than the 2123 predecessor. The basket/frame is identical. This heavier magnet was glued and only riveted ( aluminum ) to the top plate receptacle/bore-holes ( a bad concept from the get-go to count on aluminum rivets to hold all that "cantilevered" magnet weight ). These little speakers ride around in "foamed" cases.

regards <> Earl K

paragon
11-12-2004, 08:28 AM
Thanks Earl for info,

"Matze" (our man on laserwelding) was very amazed about this site.
Show him the pics. He asked "Are there coming more parts like this from USA?"
I said no, to expensieve to ship.
Well, more pics when its finished.

Eckhard (Have to work a short time this evening in our factory)

paragon
11-15-2004, 12:40 PM
Broken frame refoam

paragon
11-15-2004, 12:41 PM
Both finished