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View Full Version : So, is JBL going to be releasing new speakers anytime soon?



kenratboy
10-26-2004, 09:54 PM
Their current product line in the Klipsch Reference price range (bookshelf speakers for $400-800ish and floorstanders from $600-1200ish a pair) is lame (Northridge E Series) and they don't have much else that is interesting.

Do you know if anything is in the works? I would love to see a revised Studio-type line with better mains and REAL surround speakers for HT use.

I love JBL, but their new product lineup just sucks right now!

4313B
10-27-2004, 04:43 AM
Probably

kenratboy
10-27-2004, 08:56 AM
Insightful :p

kenratboy
10-27-2004, 09:23 AM
Bleh - too bad. I just hope its worth the wait.

They have the knowlegde, marketing, distribution channels, capital, etc. to make world class products, but choose not to. WHY!!!

4313B
10-27-2004, 09:35 AM
Hey! I'm baffled! Everyone I talk to is busy as all get out coming up with new product. Marketing is putting the word out on product that hasn't even left development yet!

Except for Pro, it's all overseas I guess... here in the States it appears to me that Harman would prefer to sell everything off their websites and finish off what's left of a once mighty Dealer infrastructure once and for all...

All speculation on my part.

kenratboy
10-27-2004, 09:38 AM
Yeah, the Japanese web site makes me drool.

My only question is, JBL does not have much of a dealer network, so why don't they sell their Northridge-made JBL Japan products over the internet to people in the USA and all over the world? I bet many of us would buy!

TimG
10-27-2004, 10:25 AM
It looks like all the Harman U.S. investment in non-horn home speakers is going to Infinity and Revel. I can go into my local Sound King/Ultimate Electronics and listen to the Infinity Betas and Preludes, but I have to go to a pro shop to hear any of the good JBL products, like the LSR6332.

JBL should really be able to offer some products to compete with the Klipsch towers with the real wood veneer, but instead they keep churning out the disposable vinyl clad particle board cabinets, the kind of thing I would never spend money on. How are people supposed to take their high-end offerings seriously when they see so much of that kind of stuff?

I really don't know where JBL is even going to sell their K2 and Project Array speakers. They aren't expensive enough to appeal to the people who buy Wilson Audio products. I know that Stereophile tested the S9800, because I have seen measurments in the test of some JM Lab speakers, but they have never published the review. Maybe because it's almost impossible for anyone to acutally buy the speakers in this county.

Best Buy and Circuit City are a joke for electronics. My local stores don't even have serious listening rooms any more, they just set up their cheap speakers in the aisles, where I guess it is supposed to simulate critical listening in your hallway at home.

There seems to be only one local high end shop in my area because the other one switched to custom home theater installations, I guess that is where the money is these days for stores that don't make all their money from selling Bose.

scott fitlin
10-27-2004, 12:30 PM
Originally posted by Giskard
Yeah, very exciting stuff!

I'm saving my monies now! :yes: Granted it looks good, and I wouldnt mind having something like that in my living room, but what will be availability here in the U.S.? That ad aint in English.

I, too, would like to see JBL make something for its " Home " market!

qxlxp
10-28-2004, 05:08 AM
Originally posted by TimG
It looks like all the Harman U.S. investment in non-horn home speakers is going to Infinity and Revel. I can go into my local Sound King/Ultimate Electronics and listen to the Infinity Betas and Preludes, but I have to go to a pro shop to hear any of the good JBL products, like the LSR6332.

i don't know why they just don't slap a grill covers on their lsr line and sell them in the consumer market like m&k. i had a pair of lsr32's that were great sounding and a great bargain, but my wife thought they were the most ugly speaker i have ever had in the house. now that the drivers are recessed in the lsr 6300 series, i am thinking of just wrapping the whole speaker in grill cloth or maybe building some flush grilles and trying to get them past my wife.

also, a 80hz crossover on the 6328P and a sealed (or bung plugged) version of the 6332 which would give you an f3 around 70hz doesn't seem like it could be that difficult. it is almost as if they refuse to sell into the consumer market.

4313B
10-28-2004, 05:23 AM
"it is almost as if they refuse to sell into the consumer market."

Perhaps...
What do they know that we don't?
What do we know that they don't?
What information are they basing their marketing decisions on?

Maybe it's time for Don to interview someone in Marketing...
I can't because everyone I knew in Marketing quit :rotfl:

Thanks for the photos Valentin!

I was informed not to post any at all so nice work around. :p

boputnam
10-28-2004, 07:17 AM
Originally posted by Giskard
[BMaybe it's time for Don to interview someone in Marketing...
[/B] Dood - yer a genius!! :yes:

Then, we should start a Forum Blog on what end-users want - this is rife throughout the Forum, but not in any one dedicated Thread.

kenratboy
10-28-2004, 07:42 AM
My real gripe is the ease in which they could do this.

I am a car freak and have to 97 Toyota Camry with a V6 and a 5-speed and some minor mods (0-60 in 7.5 sec.) - I LOVE the Supra. I realize why Toyota discontinued it and that it would literally cost BILLIONS OF DOLLARS of bring it back (latest substanciated rumors say Tokyo Auto Salon in 2005 and on the streets no later than 2007)

Anyway, I am asking JBL to do either or both of two things, neither of which would be hard for a company their size:

1.) Sell your freaking Japanese market stuff in the USA!!! OMG, this is the awesome classic (and even new stuff) from when JBL was popular, you could even sell it over your web site. IIRC, this stuff is made in California and shipped to Asia - NO FAIR!!!

To use my car analogy, some cars are only sold in Japan (Nissan Skyline, for example) because of legal reasons and the fact it would be VERY expensive (countless millions) to bring a car over. Not the case with speakers.

2.) Take your pro stuff and pretty it up for home use, might need to make a center channel and stuff, but use exsisting drivers. Imagine some Pi Speaker-like stuff from JBL themselves. A 2226 driver with a nice horn on it.

paragon
10-28-2004, 09:43 AM
What`s going on at JBL ??

I think they are loosing theyr quality.
Look at the speakers they build now.
Look at the "cheap" L-Series from the 70`s.
See the difference in quality.
My think is the last good quality speakers they build
was the "TI and L Series" of the 90`s.
Quality ! not sound.
My friend whant to bought a new stereo a few years ago.
I said to him buy the JBL L 80 !! and any other you want.

Eckhard

lfh
10-28-2004, 03:34 PM
Originally posted by boputnam
Then, we should start a Forum Blog on what end-users want - this is rife throughout the Forum, but not in any one dedicated Thread.

What an excellent idea! Perhaps it actually is possible to have some (if ever so little) influence! Yep. Let's start a wishlist thread (hey, we're approaching x-mas) and keep it cookin' for a while. Lots of realistic ideas have already been presented, and for sure we'll come up with more. Voilŕ! JBL gets a think tank for free - and one or another of our dreams may become true. :nutz:

(I wish they'd do a few more production runs of C8R2203...and maybe that they release component kits comprising of the parts of the upcoming Project Array...and :hmm: )

Don McRitchie
10-28-2004, 03:59 PM
My intent is not to put a damper in your plans, but you should understand the market situation. This forum represents as good a cross-section of the potential market as any. Let's assume that 10% of active JBL fans are aware of this site (I tend to think that this percentage is low). This includes many contented JBL owners that are interested in the background of their speakers but are not actively looking to purchase JBL products. Those that actively trade in JBL products tend to be members of this forum. So far, we have just under 1000 members. So maybe there are 10,000 people that would consider acquiring JBL products that have a legacy to their vintage designs. Of those, the vast majority are bargain hunters. These are people that are interested in DIY projects and vintage JBL systems because they can be had at a fraction of the cost of manufacture.

How many on this forum would be willing to spend $400 for a single new 2235? This driver is actually currently available and I have yet to hear of anyone on this forum that has bought one from JBL. Who would be willing to spend at least $15,000 for the equivalent of an updated 4350 (note that this was the price of the last JBL large format monitor - the DMS-1)? I would guess that there are less than 1000 people that would be interested in purchasing new versions of the products you are describing. To recoup the costs of development and marketing to such a small group, prices would be extremely high. This is why the 1500AL is sold for $2,000 a piece in Japan.

Personally, I would love to see JBL re-enter the high end market domestically, but I have to admit, I have a hard time seeing the economics of it being worthwhile.

lfh
10-28-2004, 04:29 PM
Originally posted by Don McRitchie
Personally, I would love to see JBL re-enter the high end market domestically, but I have to admit, I have a hard time seeing the economics of it being worthwhile.

What you're saying makes alot of sense, but it could still be worthwile according to the "Race on Sunday, sell on Monday" device.

(Some time ago I was hunting for old JBL horns and at a major Disco equipment rental company they guy (in the early twenties) upon my question replied: "Hey, JBL don't make PA stuff - it's a car stereo company, man." Scary!)

Bestsmurfs
10-28-2004, 05:18 PM
JBL was a lot like McIntosh in that their products were leaders in their segment, a little pricy and lasted virtually forever. Once their somewhat limited audience made a purchase, they were likely to keep it for a generation. Good for us, not for them! Meanwhile competition was knocking on their door in the form of heavily discounted Japanese imports then and a thousand high end niche makers today. I don’t think many of us could afford or justify paying for that level of quality today and that only limits the customer base further. Hence the current disposable home audio via “Best Buy”.

scott fitlin
10-28-2004, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by Bestsmurfs
JBL was a lot like McIntosh in that their products were leaders in their segment, a little pricy and lasted virtually forever. Once their somewhat limited audience made a purchase, they were likely to keep it for a generation. Good for us, not for them! Meanwhile competition was knocking on their door in the form of heavily discounted Japanese imports then and a thousand high end niche makers today. I don’t think many of us could afford or justify paying for that level of quality today and that only limits the customer base further. Hence the current disposable home audio via “Best Buy”. Not so much that there arent many or any who could afford to pay for the level of high quality, if that statement is true, then companies like Wilson, B & W, Avant-Garde, etc must not be selling product!

But, what I do know is the sheer volume of product, cheapie product, sold through outlets like best Buy and Circuit City more than makes up for them not having a top of the line consumer high end line! And of course, not only do they sell tons of plastic speakers, the profit margin is higher for them!

Car Audio. JBL is selling tons of car audio! TONS!

So, they make enough pro and touring gear to be a visible leader in the field, and sell tons of cheap product off the name!

It seems to be a proven formula for doing buisiness! Every tour company has tons of vertec and crown! people go to concerts, and nightclubs and see and hear JBL, then ................

Not to mention Harman Intl seems to always have enough money to buy up every once famous audio brand!

Look at Crown under the tutledge of Harman! Crown always made top flight pro amps. Owning Crown at one time meant you had to spend some money. Now Crown has all the entry level and lightweight light priced amps, and every mobile DJ, and cost conscious club and whatever, has Crown amps! They sell so many CE series, and XLS amps it isnt funny!

They no longer " Have " to make stuff that appeals to us.

This is the way it is! They are selling alot of stuff, just not the kind of stuff we want.

johnaec
10-28-2004, 06:02 PM
I don't know that they've really left the hi-end home market. You've got the very hi-end K2 stuff, then you have the relatively mid-priced Performance series, and also the Synthesis series for HT.

It seems more like they have no real idea how to market this stuff successfully, or at least I've never seen this stuff promoted anywhere but their website. But then again - maybe the message IS getting to the desired audience, (which might not be us...), and maybe they ARE successful, as far as achieving what they want to do.

I agree, an evolution of the earlier 44xx stuff might have been nice, but I think JBL really believes in the superiority of this newer stuff, and until I'm in a position to make direct comparisons, I'm not really qualified to argue...

John

scott fitlin
10-28-2004, 06:19 PM
I look at it like this! Nightclub sound was once almost exclusively JBL. Most of the famous disco designers used JBL drivers, horns and tweeters. Some took JBL cabinets and designed their own application specific, enlarged copies of JBL designs. But it was almost all JBL at one time. But these days there arent as many clubs opening up every year as there was 25 years ago.

Cars! Everyone seems to be buying high power booming car systems! Millions of young people across the entire country doing up their cars with supersound! Seems to me this, financially beats the hell out of a possible 4 or 5 clubs opening in each city every year! lets face it, when we were 20 we wanted, or lusted for a big pair of JBL,s. These days the kids want car bass, and lots of it, and amps to push em to the limit!

Computers! Everyone has them, we all use them, even us! And everyone needs a set of speakers for the computer! How many units can be sold annually, and these cost very little to manufacture!

In terms of volume, the two aforementioned markets blow consumer hi fi away! But, your right about the fact that they dont really market the K2 very aggressively!

I dont think its the lack of " know how " when it comes to marketing, if thats true, why do they market their pro stuff so well, and why do they make and market the stuff for Japan like they do?

I think they know very well what they do, and they do it because they sell so much of it, and the American market has shown them that they can!

Still, I wish they had one really kick ass tradtional, legacy JBL speaker available!

scott fitlin
10-28-2004, 06:23 PM
I also feel that all the people who buy JBL car audio, and Best Buy stuff, are the type of people who didnt buy JBL 20yrs ago. So, if anything, they may have widened their marketing!

:confused:

Zilch
10-28-2004, 06:48 PM
Originally posted by Don McRitchie
Personally, I would love to see JBL re-enter the high end market domestically, but I have to admit, I have a hard time seeing the economics of it being worthwhile. Fine. I buy the amortization of product development costs argument. However, by the same logic, NOT marketing already developed and manufactured products sold in other markets such as Japan and Europe domestically makes no sense.

Clearly, these do not directly compete with their "commodity" consumer offerings. Like Synthesis, they could be sold through other distribution channels (or even direct) without impacting Circuit City and Best Buy. They need such channels to move their current high-end product anyway.

Why not supplement with these additional products, increasing the volume and spreading the amortization more broadly, thereby improving margins on international sales as well?

Don McRitchie
10-28-2004, 07:02 PM
I'm not sure if it is clear, but the K2 speakers (S9800,S5800) are for sale in the US and Canada. In the US, it is mainly though the Synthesis dealer network. However, if you are so inclined, you can buy the S9800 online:

http://www.harmanaudio.com/search_browse/product_detail.asp?urlMaterialNumber=K2.S9800WG&status=

The remaining Japanese systems tend to be designed specifically for that market with a unique voicing that is not intended to be neutral or flat. I'm not sure if many on this forum would appreciate that sound.

kenratboy
10-28-2004, 07:32 PM
Don, not hi-end, but just stuff that doesn't suck! I am talking about stuff to compete with the Klipsch RB-75's and the like.

Bestsmurfs
10-28-2004, 08:26 PM
They would be competing with their own Harmon brands Infinity and Revel. The pro audio gives them the name recognition to impress concert go'ers and the plastic consumables give them a product to sell the masses. The high end of audio is very overcrowded with a staggering number of overpriced speakers. It would be nearly impossible for JBL to break into this snobbish / elitist group with the JBL logo and frankly why would they want to when they have Revel? They already have the much larger consumable market.

scott fitlin
10-29-2004, 10:14 AM
Originally posted by Bestsmurfs
They would be competing with their own Harmon brands Infinity and Revel. The pro audio gives them the name recognition to impress concert go'ers and the plastic consumables give them a product to sell the masses. The high end of audio is very overcrowded with a staggering number of overpriced speakers. It would be nearly impossible for JBL to break into this snobbish / elitist group with the JBL logo and frankly why would they want to when they have Revel? They already have the much larger consumable market. This is exactly what I have said in an earlier post!

People go to nightclubs, and concerts, and see the name JBL, and then, when they are shopping at Circuit City or best Buy and see the three letters, JBL, they buy! The plastic Best Buy offerings are NOT what any of US would purchase, but you wouldnt believe how MUCH of this plastic stuff they sell!

Build a nightclub, and JBL will practically GIVE you a soundsystem for almost free to get the name JBL in there, because it doesnt matter! What does matter is the amounts of plastic consumables they are able to sell from visibility the name gets in venues and arenas!

And as I said before, car Audio, man they are selling SO MUCH car audio its outta sight. When I was 20, I wanted ( wished ) a pair of L-300,s of my own! Todays 20 year old wants subwoofers for the car with 5ft of excursion, 2000 watts power handling, and be able to be felt and heard from 5 blocks away! Everywhere you go these days how many cars do we pass on a daily basis, that have boomin mega car systems? From here to timbuktu, guys are spending hundreds of millions annually on car audio, as compared to audiophiles buying an expensive pair of fantastic speakers, and having and using them for the next ten years, who basically only buy once! Every year a whole new crop of new drivers get thier licenses, get cars, and need car sound to compete with their freinds, and pick up chicks, etc! The ones who already have entry level car systems, and have saved some more money are upgrading! MASSIVE MARKET! And with the popularity of SUV,s what some people are putting in the vehicles for sound and vision is ridiculous! But the amount of money spent is overwhelming!

Even Crown has a car amp!

Bestsmurfs
10-29-2004, 06:35 PM
Exactly Exactly! I was restating your point because it is so true and some people are having a hard time accepting it. The JBL we knew and loved has changed! That pretty much leaves us with fond memories of JBL's 1970 home speaker line-up and the hope we find some mislabeled treasure on eBay before it moves to Asia. Even the current JBL pro is moving down market via “Musicians Friend”. In the meantime, some of us have a dreaded small audiophile system tucked away (B&W) that we listen to when no one from Lansing Heritage is watching.

Titanium Dome
11-05-2004, 01:42 PM
Going from the low to the high, JBL home audio currently has

Multimedia Series (Computer speakers)
SCS Series (satellite/sub HT)
Control Series (compact)
Soundpoint Series (in wall)
Northridge Series (very diverse full line)
HTI Series (in wall)
Studio Series (wall mountable speakers/sub)
HT Series (basically SVA1500s + sub)
Performance Series (Ti drivers in unique enclosures + subs)
TiK Series (sculpted, Euro statement speakers)
K2 Series (expensive, powerful flagship speakers)
Synthesis (ultimate HT/music system)

So there's something from $99 to $150,000 on the list. The first three are IMO disposable; the next four are entry to mid level; the next three (HT, Performance, TiK) are upper level, and the last two are high end. Maybe the TiK belongs in high end, too, but I don't think so.

What's really missing is a type of speaker rather than a particluar price point. It seems to me that some of us are looking for an updated version of designs we admire and covet, and since it's not there in the line, the line seems to have holes in it.

Despite the absurd difficulty of finding some Performance Speakers to actually audition, let alone purchase, I was able to stay in the JBL family and get a fantastic step up from my older L7/L5 set up and my SVA1800s, too.

Yes, I do get tired of the black vinyl look, but the Performance Series in Cherry is very fetching and even the black ash requires a long look to determine whether it's real or not. (I had to turn the thing upside down and look for a raw edge.)

As others have posted, I'm not convinced that JBL could generate sufficient sales to warrant a more diverse line, especially at the upper end. Still, having the choice to purchase other designs already in production seems like a no brainer. If we didn't like the sound, then at least we could take the enclosures and begin our own tuning.

jackz4000
11-06-2004, 07:14 AM
Maybe at some point the beancounters at Harman will permit a return to the JBL golden days. Perhaps not. The markets have changed and so has the world and even the many ways which people listen to music. Back in the day music was played in a room with an amp and 2 speakers and maybe one had a good car stereo.

Now, there are so many options. A buddy of mine has a car and suv accessory shop and he is amazed at how much $$$ kids and 20 somethings plunk down for car stereo equipment. Some will throw a grand at a clunker and the car is worth less than the car stereo. They gotta have it. This is a very big big market alone.

And there are so many ways that music is listened to. Alot listen to it on their computers. In their cars. Walking around etc. HT is another "gotta have it". So there are alot of different applications for products for a company to develop and market for that market. Again, we are not talking about quality....we are talking about $$$. A return on the $ spent. And alot of junk is peddled and sold.

In the home speaker market there is a bewildering glut of speakers and a very fragmented, yet large market. Price point is important. Lottsa units to move.

I don't think JBL will ever return to the preminence it once enjoyed, although they seem to have some good high-end offerings now. Their "golden age" is, I think gone. Yet, from that time there are some great relics to find.:smthsail:

analogman
11-06-2004, 02:50 PM
kenratboy,
I don't think Klipsch is building any Reference in Northridge. Take your medication. Your friends are looking for you over at the Klipsch Forum.

As always,
Analogman

Maron Horonzakz
11-07-2004, 08:03 AM
Anglo.....The guys on the Klipsch forum are fighting the same fight as here on the lansing site. wanting to see the heritage side of speaker design reserected. The Klipsch JUBILEE horn system was a still born design when Paul Klipsch passed away. And will not be made. The bean counters at Harmon int. Would like the old JBL crowed to fad away. More profets can be had with the plastic line. If they wanted to introduce the K2 to the US they could do better than the Synthesis back ally.

j20056
02-19-2005, 04:10 PM
I think they could re-enter the high-end market, there is demand. The reason I'm saying this is because currently, the top brand for studio monitoring is Genelec, and their top end models are indeed dual 15" models that are more advanced designs around the 4350 concept. They cost north of $50,000, yrt they have a business that is economically viable. So is it that JBL does not compete in the market that it invented because its quality is behind, or management is just not seing it? Kind of a shame, there would be buyers, I for one would buy a pair of new 4350's.

briang
02-19-2005, 04:27 PM
kenratboy,
I don't think Klipsch is building any Reference in Northridge. Take your medication. Your friends are looking for you over at the Klipsch Forum.

As always,
Analogman

Woah! There is a Klipsch forum too. :p

I have to echo others here, JBL just part of a large business and the market has changed, and maybe passed us by. I guess I'm a curmudgeon at 36. I too would like to see JBL come out with something for the home, based upon studio monitors, like that available in the golden days (Late 60's to mid 1980's); but I think I'll just have to keep shopping for tired stuff on e-bay and start restoring it with parts now made of unobtanium. I'll stop whining now...

JBLROCKS
02-19-2005, 06:37 PM
I saw where Best Buy had KLH speakers (8 inch three way) on sale for $20 a pair!:blink:

Good example of a company that used to make good stuff and got bought out...Unfortunatly the way the market is going. (Hope JBL never sells out like that!)

$20 speakers gotta be cheap crap!:barf:

But, I'll bet they sold millions!

oldschool
02-20-2005, 12:02 AM
:) I talked to a jbl rep back in November,and he told me they were coming out with a new studio series,it may not use the studio series name.He said it would come after the first of the year,and it would be more expensive and higher end then orignal studio series. still waiting.

Titanium Dome
02-20-2005, 10:47 AM
I saw where Best Buy had KLH speakers (8 inch three way) on sale for $20 a pair!:blink:


But, I'll bet they sold millions!

Soon they'll be in a pawn shop, swap meet, or landfill near you!

JBLROCKS
02-20-2005, 12:32 PM
Soon they'll be in a pawn shop, swap meet, or landfill near you!

LOL so true!!! I'll net pawn shops will want to charge more than $20 too ;)

P.S. You forgot the local EBAY auction :p

trueview
02-20-2005, 03:26 PM
I saw where Best Buy had KLH speakers (8 inch three way) on sale for $20 a pair!http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/blink.gif

Good example of a company that used to make good stuff and got bought out...Unfortunatly the way the market is going. (Hope JBL never sells out like that!)

$20 speakers gotta be cheap crap!http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/puke.gif

But, I'll bet they sold millions!

JBL already has IMO

JBLROCKS
02-20-2005, 09:12 PM
Unfortunatly, on some level I must agree with you....After spending a couple of hours one night on this website reading about JBL and what makes JBL so superior, I went and retrieved a JBL bookshelf speaker I bought a thrift store and pulled it apart. Needless to say I was a bit disappointed. Expecting to see a heavy cast woofer etc all I saw was a generic looking ceramic-magnet stamped-tin-frame woofer with no discernable JBL markings.:(

The only JBK distinction for this speaker was the JBK titanium dome tweeter.

I must agree that JBL has much "cheapened" between the 1940's and now.:(

Mr. Widget
02-20-2005, 09:44 PM
Twenty-five years ago many of us were surprised and disappointed when JBL introduced the Radiance Series with their vinyl clad boxes and cheap stamped framed drivers. Up until then the quality of the drivers in every JBL whether the top of the line Paragon or Decade L26 were superior to most all of their competitors.

Today JBL makes millions of dollars selling crap and a few bucks making K2-S9800s and other high quality systems. I suppose we should be grateful that they still bother to make the good stuff at all. If they stopped making repair kits for the vintage stuff and all of the higher end parts that we use, it probably wouldn't affect their bottom line much. As much as the bean counters run American business, at JBL they obviously don't have full control... yet.

Widget

Titanium Dome
02-20-2005, 11:11 PM
We can take some comfort that JBL's brand doesn't only make crap that brings in millions then, eh? :dont-know: 'Cuz some companies only make crap and still bring in millions. (If anyone Nose of a brand either Direct or by Reflecting, Radiate the brand name with a Wave.)

All right, a bit of sarcasm that, but I do think it's well that Harman International did devour JBL if only to keep the brand alive. Yes, a lot of weak product has come out over the years, and yes we can gripe that JBL marketing didn't do a great job of promoting the better lines, and yes JBL rewarded those markets that continued to buy more expensive product while it ignored other markets.

What do we expect?

The average American consumer is a fickle, bargain hunting, trend driven, easily duped purchaser. He follows the product of the moment, buys safe, spends as little as possible, and abandons a brand with little or no inducement other than it's 1) new, 2) like everyone else's, 3) costs less but is "equal to" other brands, and 4) is made by the brand of the moment (often recommended by "knowlegeable" friends and Consumer Reports).

If JBL were making only the speakers of quality matching those 30 years ago, it would be out of business by now, at least in the USA, or perhaps only doing pro sound. Fortunately, by being a part of Harman, it's been able to sell tons of consumer grade speakers, from the abysmal multimedia PC crap speakers to the not-so-bad iPod add ons to the pretty-good-for-what-they-are HTIB stuff to the OK Northridge line.

For the money that these generate, JBL gets to continue employing some pretty great people, including a few legends, gets to share a world-class testing facility at its (now Harman's I guess) Northridge works, and still can produce some a$$-cracking, mind blowing bleeding edge speakers. Think K2, think TiK, think Performance Series, think Synthesis--have you ever heard a Synthesis set up? Holy CRAP!

As Mr. Widget wisely brings up, the amount of support that JBL provides in terms of drivers, repair items, spare parts, manuals, etc., is amazing. It could just declare anything over seven years old too much trouble to support, but it doesn't. It probably supports a lot of stuff long after it makes any economic sense.

Don't get me wrong; I truly respect the old lines. I revere my own set of L100s and dream of a pair of 443X. But I really think the best of today's JBL trumps most of that vintage stuff in most important ways, but, of course, NOT in every single way.

I really appreciate and value the enthusiasm on this board for the truly great speakers produced over the years by JBL. The fact that we can still buy them and treasure them--even tweak them--is a testament to their heritage. My hope is that we can recognize that JBL is still in the high quality speaker business today and get excited about some of today's products.

Yes, I realize that the company makes this hard due to availability issues and PP marketing. You all know the story of my pursuit of the Performance Series--not exactly a triumph of JBL marketing and distribution. Maybe we need to look at a little activism with JBL?

The thing is, if we go from complaining to demanding, we'd better be prepared to actually buy some stuff if they put out. I live about 30 miles from Northridge. I'd be glad to be part of a delegation to go there with our manifesto for change. Now, what's in it? :deal:

Maron Horonzakz
02-21-2005, 08:25 AM
One part of the manifesto should read. If they dont support the customer we wonte support them.

speakerdave
02-21-2005, 10:06 AM
Build a nightclub, and JBL will practically GIVE you a soundsystem for almost free to get the name JBL in there, because it doesnt matter!
Who do I talk to?

David :)

4313B
02-21-2005, 10:59 AM
http://www.jblsynthesis.com/

Put up or shut up :p

Also, rumor is Tweeter stores will start pushing the Performance Series.

Finally, http://www.jblsynthesis.com/history/our_heritage.aspx?Language=ENG&Country=US&Region=USA here's a snapshot - notice who likes JBL... where there's a demand JBL will supply...

Maron Horonzakz
02-21-2005, 04:19 PM
But will JBL SYNTHESIS let me listen before I buy?

mikebake
02-21-2005, 04:44 PM
Also, rumor is Tweeter stores will start pushing the Performance Series.

Finally, http://www.jblsynthesis.com/history/our_heritage.aspx?Language=ENG&Country=US&Region=USA here's a snapshot - notice who likes JBL... where there's a demand JBL will supply...
JBL’s founder helped motion pictures speak. From then on, we’ve been continuously advancing the science of high fidelity sound reproduction. Right on up to and including Synthesis Ultra. As the Jazz Singer put it back in 1928, “You ain’t heard nothin’ yet.”

I heard Giskard is saving his pennies up.......................

4313B
02-21-2005, 05:00 PM
But will JBL SYNTHESIS let me listen before I buy?:bash:

There's a whole map full of reps to contact - http://www.jblsynthesis.com/where_to_buy/purchase_installation.aspx?Language=ENG&Country=US&Region=USA

Call them and see what's up.

briang
02-21-2005, 05:52 PM
http://www.jblsynthesis.com/

Put up or shut up :p


I'll shut up now. :blink:

mikebake
02-21-2005, 06:45 PM
:bash:

There's a whole map full of reps to contact - http://www.jblsynthesis.com/where_to_buy/purchase_installation.aspx?Language=ENG&Country=US&Region=USA

Call them and see what's up.

Funny you mentioned it: I called one today re:Performance Series.

speakerdave
02-21-2005, 06:47 PM
I'll shut up now. :blink:
I hope not. Very unlikely that remark was directed at you. Very unlikely it wasn't misdirected entirely.

We've been around this one before. McRitchie is absolutely right in saying we would be as difficult to market to as any other batch of kvetching bargain hunters. One look at the S9800 price page should be enough to call anyone out. Probably a great speaker. $25,000 for a pair? We're just not there.

David

4313B
02-21-2005, 06:57 PM
http://www.jblsynthesis.com/

Put up or shut up :p

I'll shut up now. :blink:

I hope not. Very unlikely that remark was directed at you. Very unlikely it wasn't misdirected entirely.It's just a remark and nothing more. We've all heard the saying before. It is not directed at any specific person.

hector.murray
02-21-2005, 07:38 PM
Now I need a bigger home:biting:

briang
02-21-2005, 08:45 PM
It's just a remark and nothing more. We've all heard the saying before. It is not directed at any specific person.

:) I was just playing along...:) Synthesis is out of my league, way out. :cheers:

Ian Mackenzie
02-21-2005, 09:19 PM
Things have changed quite a bit in the last 25 years and like many companies of today , Harman is focused on the bottom line and is run by accountants.
Sounds like they have found a sales / distribution strategy that works.

Even prolific marketers of fine drivers like Dynaudio have stopped distribution of raw drivers for diy markets.

The JBL recycle Ebay market is probably the most active visible sign of JBL turnover.

Zilch
02-21-2005, 09:32 PM
Synthesis is out of my league, way out.Yeah, me too. But I know from this forum that with ingenuity and determination, we can build up REAL close to it and the rest of the top of the line stuff.... :)

hector.murray
02-21-2005, 10:26 PM
Amen!!!

Maron Horonzakz
02-22-2005, 06:51 AM
I just looked up the adress,s Of where I could listen to these JBL systems. It would cost me a round trip plane ticket just to audition a K2. :barf:

4313B
02-22-2005, 08:18 AM
A round trip plane ticket to audition a K2 or Synthesis system is on par with the kind of person who would buy such a system. It simply isn't a problem. I know that if I were interested in either I'd be on a plane to Burbank or LAX.

Maron Horonzakz
02-22-2005, 08:40 AM
yes but everybody knows the K2,s will sound different through SMOG.

4313B
02-22-2005, 09:12 AM
Knows? or Nose? :p

Titanium Dome
02-22-2005, 09:57 AM
I looked back at the circumstances under which I acquired my L100s in 1970 to see what the equivalent sacrifice would require today. I paid $273 each, or $576 for the pair, plus Ohio sales tax which was I think a whopping 2% at the time.

I was a college student, working part-time during the school year, but working a pretty sweet job on the Penn Central Railroad during the summer. My part-time job paid $1.30/hr. The railroad gig netted me about $500 every two weeks, really good income for a college kid at the time.

Anyway, I had tuition, room and board, books, gas and insurance for the car (1963 1/2 Ford Galaxie 500 Fastback), etc., so my expenses were up there, and getting a real stereo was kind of a luxury. I did not live at home for free in the summer; my parents were divorced and I was on my own.

I saved up for three months in the summer before going in to Woodville Appliance to make a down payment to put the speakers on lay-away. Then I squeezed 20 to 30 bucks a month out of my budget to make payments. Finally, I got a second job working the night shift at a 7-Up distributor's warehouse loading trucks to pay off the final $80.

All-in-all I worked for eight months to buy those speakers. At the time I paid them off, I was working two jobs, going to college full-time, and paying all my expenses. The speakers took about 15% of my net income during that time. They've been paying me back ever since. :applaud:

So if all things were equal today at my present income, if I set aside 15% of my net for eight months, I'd have enough to buy a complete Performance Series system, or some TiK gear. If I really went into austerity mode, I could get those K2s in a year. If I were 21, I probably would just do it.

Now I know some of us will put that 15% into retirement or whatever, but priorities, people! I had a nice awakening four years ago with a nasty heart attack, and I decided that the only time that matters is NOW. Sure, I put a few bucks aside in case I do live for a while :dancin: but the truth is I want to live now. So I had no problem finding a way to cough up the bucks for a super deal on the Performance Series.

Five years ago I would have rationalized my way out of doing that. :rolleyes:

I guess my point is that the Performance Series is no more economically challenging to purchase than those L100s thirty years ago. Those of us over 50 should consider that perhaps our commitment isn't what it used to be, and it's not all just JBL cheaping out and letting us down. :duck:

Tweak48
02-22-2005, 12:42 PM
Titanium Dome-

Great analysis and philsophical insight.

It's easy to forget that the average person (particulary college students) at that time had to sweat blood to buy a pair of L-100s. Hell, you could buy an entire RCA console stereo in pecan for half the price of the Centurys.

As a college student, I sold JBL at a TV & Stereo store that was the sole dealer to a 10,000 student college town, and I rarely sold L-100's (one set to a Breakman friend of mine on the Union Pacific railroad); another buddy sold his car to buy a set of L-65 Jubals. The rest could only afford L-16, L-26, or L-88 Plus, if they could afford JBL at all.

You could by a decent Victorian house in my town for $15,000 during that period.

I personally think JBL deserves a lot of credit for making the Studio series as good as they are for they price they sell for on the street.

Bill H.
02-22-2005, 03:22 PM
Well said! I remember those day's. A few could and most could not. JBL 100's, I could not. It is still a shame we did'nt know what we had and treated them the way we did.:D

JonathanKeehn
02-22-2005, 08:18 PM
I looked up the inflation statistics for the period of 1968 to 2004 on inflationdata.com and calculated out a net inflation of about 567%. I seem to remember that the Paragon cost about $2,500 in those days, so that would have equalled about $14,175 in inflation adjusted dollars. Considering its advanced technology and materials since the late 60's, today's K2 S9800 is not badly priced at $25,000 per pair. Considering todays buying habits of stereo shoppers, I feel grateful JBL still makes such a speaker. I've seen 3 used pairs go on sale on the internet for about $15,000. Hey, home equity loans are still fairly cheap with today's rates. If I were serious about buying a pair, I would grab some cheap plane tickets to California and audition them at Northridge. .