Building a better loudspeaker than the K2 s9500

[Niklas Nord]

Hi

Do you think it´s possible building a better loudspeaker
than my K2 s9500 ?

I was thinking about using two 1500AL and a horn in
the middle, maybe 2451 or TAD 4003..
Maybe a "supertweeter" also..
Perhaps use the two horn drivers from the K2 s9800 if
those would be better than the TAD driver..

Cross this loudspeaker around 80hz and run my SUB1500
sealed in corners...

What do you think.. What kind of design would be better
than my loudspeakers... The ultimate JBL system..

I always have crazy plans...

yesterday i thought about two 2242 and in the middle a midrange
perhaps 2206 or 2123 or 2020 and some kind of horn like the
TAD 4003 and a "supertweeter"... :D

I like it extreme, and NO distorsion.. Dynamic as hell. :p

--And perhaps cross all drivers active and digital...

[Maron Horonzakz]

NIKLAS.......there is really nothing wrong with the K2 9500 ... the 475nd is an excellent mid to high driver on that K2 horn with excellent resolution...If you think you need alittle more extended top end (more air) use the ultra tweeter from the K2 S 9800. Or a TAD 703 crossing over above 15k or even a Fostex ultra tweeter 900 also crossing above 15k......as far as the bottem end what do you want to do? shake your apartment apart? Not mutch music down there.

[Niklas Nord]

I dont like the foam surroundings :D

And I like it extreme, and enjoy building loudspeakers,
it´s my interest.

Why not try building a better one !

[Maron Horonzakz]

I like my foam on a mug of cold beer. But it will be a long long time before foam surrounds on the 1400nd will give you any problems. Of course the 1400 pro could be had with corrigated surrounds. Who cares with JBL 1500 as subs. anyway.

[Earl K]

Hi Niklas

I agree with Maron.

Before building up your "super-duper" M9500 - buy some high output / high quality tweeters, as Maron has suggested .
Though - I don't think that two of the JBL "Be" tweeter has the output to keep up with all ( or even just 4 ) of your 1500 subwoofers.

- The more Sub-Bass you add to your system - the more you'll need to add an appropriate amount of Hi-SPL / UHF transducers, just to maintain some semblance of musical balance.
- "Think" - High-Output Disco stuff for a bit of inspiration .

- Consider "storing" your 1400nd drivers ( during this phase in your listening life ) and instead buy some 1400pro drivers for that added mid-bass kick ( you'll need these to keep up with even a few active 1500 subs ).

- Also consider "storing" your 475nd drivers and replacing them with straight under-damped 2450/1 drivers ( I can't remember if the H9500 is 2" or 1.5" entrance ) .

- I think the above suggestions will quickly move you closer to want you think you want . ;)

< Earl K :)

[Niklas Nord]

I dont want disco, I want low distorsion and high definition.
And the foams on my K2 may soon start to loosen up, I dont know
about that.. but well hey they are old.

I think the 475nd is somewhat low crossed at 650hz, there
are certain tracks and music that can make them sound hars
and distorted..

A better midbas driver than the 1400nd would make it possible to cross the horn a bit higher... and a better horn may handle the load also.. something like 1500AL perhaps..

I think that a design as the s9500 but with 1500AL drivers
would be okay.. and maybe some other kind of horn than the 2451 with some supertweeter.

Does anybody know if the s9800 horn driver will handle more
than the 475nd? the 475 feels like a PA rugged driver that can
handle alot of ruff use..

[Earl K]

Hi Niklas

I guess my use of the phrase "Think Disco" for some inspiration on component balancing, has been misinterpreted .
- I apologize for that misunderstanding.

"High Defination" is a more elusive goal compared to implementing the following:

- When I ran 4-way systems ( SR work ) back in the 80's my "Rule of Thumb" for a "distortion-free / high-output system" ( to be used in the near to mid-field ) was to matchup one high-output tweeter per single subwoofer (18"). I prefer Fostex tweeters for this task vs any JBL high-output tweeter .

Unfortunately; the more transducers you add to any system - the more the capablity of that system to "image" , is compromised . Going to a line-array system that uses ( multiple, 0¡-Vertical CD horns ) can restore some of what gets lost when one uses multiples of identical components. JBLs' "Vertec" or L-Acoustics' V-Dosc systems are two such examples .

<. Earl K

[TimG]

Maybe you should just replicate the Project May after it is completed. But don't sell your S9500's, you will need them for surround speakers some day. You better start saving for drivers now since the complete set is going to cost close to $10,000US. You also better start adding seismic reinforcement to your home for all of your Sub1500s because you are going to be cracking walls and knocking over book shelves with the number that you have. You'll probably need some sort of buried concrete bunker.

[Maron Horonzakz]

NIk......This has nothing to do with DISCO... But clarity and good definition is one of the good traits of 475nd. Remember the 4" diaphram & 2" throat of this driver gives you 4 times the radiating area than the mid high unit of the K2 S 9800. When you first got your K2 You had two different kinds of voice coil/diaphrams. One was a damped design & the other not... There are other 4" diaphram JBL units tat will fit & change its overall audio flaver so to speak. But thats for another time. The 1400pro would compliment the 1500sub more than the 1500AL .....The475nd crossing over at 650 hz is not stressing that driver. If you think it is bump it up to 700hz or 800hz ... but to do this you need a varible xover like mine where you can not only change xover points but quickly change slopes. Of course this calls for more amps when dealing with electronic xovers. But this should not be a problem You are willing to spend alot more in changing the K2 to a SUPER K2.

[Niklas Nord]

TimG, your comment there is NOT why I visit this website.

:(

Saad to be the one joking about.

[Niklas Nord]

Maroon and Earl, thank you.. I will look it up.
Offcouse there is more than low distorsion also there is
phase and cohearance.. imaging.

I have noticed, this kind of big loudspeakers need to be placed
some meters from listening possition to act as a joined unit.

if you understand the english :D


Tim G,
In Sweden we have nice concrete, so dont wory :p

[Niklas Nord]

I hope anybody did not missunderstood me,
I´m not going to modify my existing K2´s...

[lfh]

Originally posted by Niklas Nord
yesterday i thought about two 2242 and in the middle a midrange
perhaps 2206 or 2123 or 2020 and some kind of horn like the
TAD 4003 and a "supertweeter"... :D


Hey Niklas,

it seems that the largest Westlake tower is close to your desire:

Tower SM-1 (2x18" + 12" + 2" + 1" + UHF) (http://www.westlakeaudio.com/Speakers/Hi_Fi_Series/tower_sm-1.html)

:shock:

Hälsningar, :wave:
Fredrik (#2)

[Niklas Nord]

hej Fredrik !

Well it´s not JBL :D

And I would like it sealed, and only capable down to 80hz
due to crossing --> SUB1500 !


Those westlakes, looks like toys..
I guess you have to be some 10 meters from them, acting as
point sources..

Cant be ok, using such many drivers and crossings..

I´l take this one instead:
http://www.westlakeaudio.com/Speakers/Hi_Fi_Series/tower_hr-7.html

[lfh]

Originally posted by Niklas Nord
And I would like it sealed, and only capable down to 80hz
due to crossing --> SUB1500 !


Oh, I assumed you would replace your tiny subs by say 16x24" crossed at 20 Hz.

:rotfl:

But seriously, the middle tower model is ueber-cool! (I wonder if it's Westlake's fault 2403:s are so expensive nowadays. :hmm: )

[Maron Horonzakz]

NIK.......I have never conciderd any WESTLAKE system a toy. None not any of them. although I do have a favorite WESTLAKE the SM-1 You have to remember some of the components are JBL. But the tolerence are even tighter. Your K2 is also of this caliber & like the WESTLAKE. can be tweeked to even a high standered. Take this in small steps. Extend the top end first. take your time and get used to it before the next step.

[Guenter]

Well, Niklas. Your proposal made me think about diminishing returns, yet never achieving the ultimate goal! Not too long ago I visited a local jazz club. Walking up the stairs I heard the music and 'I knew' it was lve. Recorded music played even through the very best systems, to my ears, never matches live music - even! when hearing the live music from outside the doors. There is some intangible, paricularly to piano I find, that speakers jsut can't 'realistically' touch. Is your chase pointles? You have to be the judge when you go to a live venue.

-cheers, guenter

[Niklas Nord]

What are the Project May going to be,
does it involve 1500AL ?

[4313B]

Dood!

Link to Project May (http://www.audioheritage.org/html/projectmay/pmintro.htm)

[Niklas Nord]

Oh my goooooood

is there TWOOOO 1500AL´s .. !!!


Hmm...

Seems okay, like my dreamproject.
I have been on that website reading.. But I seem to have missed alot of the pages, now there is picures and text..
http://www.audioheritage.org/html/projectmay/blog/2004-02.htm

:eek:

Waow

Thank you dood Giskard

[Niklas Nord]

wow again