Does internal cables replacement changes the sound od speakers ?

[davidpou]

Hi,
I had the opportunity to purchase L300. the internal cables have been completly replaced by.... I imagine, supposedly "better" cables ....
What do you think ? does it affect the overall result ? does it improves it ?
62089

[Ian Mackenzie]

Its relative to the rest of your system...?

I have made some cables using Cat 9 and using individual insulated strands made a cable similar to Kimber design and used bi wiring from the crossover network all the way back to the amp for the woofer / mids and highs.

Another option is to loom the strands around a narrow hollow core of dielectric.

I can vouch that on a reference system (Lavy Dac and Pass labs amplifiers) the bass , mid range and highs took on a more life like quality in that separate notes could be more easily delineated.

Get rid of the old crappy JBL connectors and put in some new binding posts that have at least gold plating.

The binding posts on the stock JBL 4345 crossover network were steel or an alloy akin to a roofing nail so I replaced them!

The terminals on most JBL drivers are of similar construction!

I regard terminations as more important than wire as dirty or poor conductors do not pass electrons efficiently.

In that respect keep your wiring short.

Also have a look at the Nelson Pass crossover upgrade

www.firstwatt.com/pdf/art_l300.pdf

[grumpy]

"I regard terminations as more important than wire as dirty or poor conductors do not pass electrons efficiently."

+1

[Mr. Widget]

"I regard terminations as more important than wire as dirty or poor conductors do not pass electrons efficiently."

+1+2

:D


Widget

[davidpou]

Terminals have been changed aswell.... (see pic) I was assuming that there is no "good cables in themselves" but "good in a system".... that is to say if the overall tend to be bright adding new cables can shift the averall sound to even brighter.... as in two much.... for instance...
62091

[Ian Mackenzie]

With these particular JBLs the integration of the woofer and horn is sub optimal in that the dispersion of the woofer and the horn is dis continuous and there are significant response irregularities in the vicinity of the crossover point.

The effect is that the horn can sound well like a horn on certain kinds of music.

These speakers sound good on rock and roll but are not accurate on classical music.

So within the constraints of the design don't expect to make a silk purse out of a sours ear by thinking that cable or other upgrades will work wonders.

It won't but you will have fun trying!

[martin_wu99]

Hi,
I had the opportunity to purchase L300. the internal cables have been completly replaced by.... I imagine, supposedly "better" cables ....
What do you think ? does it affect the overall result ? does it improves it ?
62089
It certainly does.i'm not sure it will improve but will lost the taste ineed:crying:

[audiomagnate]

Hi,
I had the opportunity to purchase L300. the internal cables have been completly replaced by.... I imagine, supposedly "better" cables ....
What do you think ? does it affect the overall result ? does it improves it ?
62089

No, unless they messed up the polarity of one or more of the drivers when they did it.

[SEAWOLF97]

It certainly does.i'm not sure it will improve but will lost the taste ineed:crying:

The OEM internal wiring is rather UN-impressive.

[rdgrimes]

Get rid of the old crappy JBL connectors and put in some new binding posts that have at least gold plating.



In the interest of being argumentative:
Gold is not that great of a conductor. What it does more than anything is bump the price of connectors that are plated with it. It's actually easier to get a poor connect with gold than with several other metals. What gold DOES offer is the absence of corrosion or patina developing over time. Plain old nickel is a better conductor, (even silver if you want to go nuts). Brushed nickel connectors offer a good solid connect, don't corrode and cost less. Even cheap chrome on steel will give you as good a connection as gold.

But I agree completely that connects are more important than wire, and that JBL has used some pretty poor connects over the years.

[SEAWOLF97]

... JBL has used some pretty poor connects over the years.

Oh, like the lowest bidder, afterthought ones up till the 80's ??

The infamous spring loaded push types that couldn't take more than 20 ga. wire ?
or the "improved" twist-lock (twist & break) from many of the "A" variations that
were also limited to small ga. wire ? Or even the modern-ish knurled knob , long shaft
specials ? Or even the more modernish 5 ways on my 250Ti's that have trouble taking 12 ga. , so that I have to use banana plugs ?

Even with all the past junk connectors/internal wires and the speakers still sounded fine. :blink:

[martin_wu99]

The OEM internal wiring is rather UN-impressive.Which OEM internal wiring JBL used?We found old West Electric hard wire is very good for old speakers such as LS3/5A,JBL,ALTEC,JENSEN ,TANNOY、CELESTION,EV etc.so the old old West Electric hard wire is getting more and more expensive in Chinese audio market:D

[martin_wu99]

more examples

[martin_wu99]

more....

[Ian Mackenzie]

In the interest of being argumentative:
Gold is not that great of a conductor. What it does more than anything is bump the price of connectors that are plated with it. It's actually easier to get a poor connect with gold than with several other metals. What gold DOES offer is the absence of corrosion or patina developing over time. Plain old nickel is a better conductor, (even silver if you want to go nuts). Brushed nickel connectors offer a good solid connect, don't corrode and cost less. Even cheap chrome on steel will give you as good a connection as gold.

But I agree completely that connects are more important than wire, and that JBL has used some pretty poor connects over the years.

What gold DOES offer is the absence of corrosion or patina developing over time

Agreed and corrosion is the issue, ie car battery won't start

Incidentially and in the interests of been a PITA, check out the WBT or Cardas connectors

[Ian Mackenzie]

Which OEM internal wiring JBL used?We found old West Electric hard wire is very good for old speakers such as LS3/5A,JBL,ALTEC,JENSEN ,TANNOY、CELESTION,EV etc.so the old old West Electric hard wire is getting more and more expensive in Chinese audio market:D

Yes it has, no coincidence and no insult intended " the sharp rise in theft of over head copper lines on train tracks later traced by customs to China"

[martin2395]

Yes it has, no coincidence and no insult intended " the sharp rise in theft of over head copper lines on train tracks later traced by customs to China"

There are too many myths in audio and I think that 'alnico magic' is one of them. I seriously can't see/hear any sonical advantage of alnico over ferrite for home use, other than satisfying audiophiles so they can tell their friends that they have the magical alnico speakers :D

As for comp. drivers my guess is that some people prefer Alnico drivers not because of the magnet used, but because those older drivers were fitted with aluminium/phenolic diaphragms simply producing more pleasant sound than Ti fitted drivers with ferrite motors.

One of the reasons that someone replaced the cabling is that the OEM JBL wire is extremely hard to solder (at least for me, it was).
I was thinking about replacing it too but was adviced not to do so, as even those few inches of cabling are a part of the "Signature Sound" :dont-know:

[martin_wu99]

Yes it has, no coincidence and no insult intended " the sharp rise in theft of over head copper lines on train tracks later traced by customs to China"
You think of too much of no related things,i only mentioned VERY OLD (several decades ago)West Electric wires:offtopic:

[martin_wu99]

There are too many myths in audio and I think that 'alnico magic' is one of them. I seriously can't see/hear any sonical advantage of alnico over ferrite for home use, other than satisfying audiophiles so they can tell their friends that they have the magical alnico speakers :D

As for comp. drivers my guess is that some people prefer Alnico drivers not because of the magnet used, but because those older drivers were fitted with aluminium/phenolic diaphragms simply producing more pleasant sound than Ti fitted drivers with ferrite motors.

One of the reasons that someone replaced the cabling is that the OEM JBL wire is extremely hard to solder (at least for me, it was).
I was thinking about replacing it too but was adviced not to do so, as even those few inches of cabling are a part of the "Signature Sound" :dont-know:
Yes there are too many myths in audio that we can not thoroughly explain.

[Ian Mackenzie]

I like your deduction.

As one noteable JBL designer has commented there is a reason for everything.

With diy there are no where near the constraint impossed in production and the final product is approved after a number of sets of eyes have given approval.

Space and cost often come into place as does marketing.

Some JBL system were never intended for full passive crossover networks.

But marketing insisted and this was detrimental to the full potential performance from all the insertion losses in the network as a result of the bi amp switching.

The switch in this case was a rotory multi throw, multi pole version that contributed to significant dcr of some 0.50 ohms collectively.
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?13930-JBL-3145-stock-crossover-A-pictorial


The effect is far worse than terminations.

This has since been called out by the designer who sggested bypassing the switch all together.

The same designer built diy JBL speakers in his garage.

Some of those designs eventually found their way into production and became highly sucessessful.

The designer is JBL legend Greg Timbers.

Greg Timbers provided me technical advise on a diy project that was to become the first attempt at a diy version of the now popular JBL 4345.

Where would we be without the talent and support of Greg Timbers.

[svollmer]

I seem to recall that my 240Ti's said "Wired with Monster Cable" on them, or something like that.

[Maron Horonzakz]

And look where MONSTER is today...

[SEAWOLF97]

There are too many myths in audio and I think that 'alnico magic' is one of them.

men like to argue over all kinds of BS subjects. :crying:

On the magnet arguments : I THINK/APPEAR TO/IMAGINE ? that the newer headphones with Neo are faster ... but maybe it's just the power of suggestion :dont-know:


does faster=better ? don't know. My "new to me" 45 year old electrostatic headphones are reviewed better in SOME aspects than the current model, the much vaulted Sennheiser HD-800's.

[Ian Mackenzie]

With this project you could opt to do several approaches but it depends if you wish to retain the legacy build or change back to flip at a future point in time.

Ie upgrade internal wiring per stock design
Tri wire per my earlier post
The aboveplus upgrade crossover parts.

Use an external horn upgrade like the jbl 2397 or Yuichi Tad horn clone with a jbl e inch driver fitted with be diapghagms.

This last uprade in some ways would offer the best value on investment or moment of truth as a tranformation into real sound on a par with some of the vintage Tad systems.