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joeinid
04-02-2014, 07:28 PM
I am excited about the possibility of getting the JBL M2 setup as my home audio 2 channel setup. I hope to be able to hear them locally in about a month with the Crown amp package, but know of some dealers (none local) with the Mark Levinson version of the JBL M2 speakers. Is anyone using the M2's as home audio speakers? The one dealer with the Crown Package may sell the speakers and BSS London 160 processor separately, allowing me to use my own amps. Any guidance would be much appreciated. Thanks!

jpw
04-02-2014, 08:32 PM
I'm a JBL dealer, and although I have not heard or even seen the system, I have been told directly by JBL that the Crown amps offer higher output and durability than the Mark Levinson's but at the expensive of musicality and finesse. For home use I don't see the 3-6db sacrifice in spl important given how incredibly loud they will play with the 300 watt ML's. However the Crown amps have the crossover and room correction capability built in them. The ML's do not and need an outboard JBL EQ/Crossover room correction processor that comes with the whole package. Based on my last conversation about 2 weeks ago, JBL is very reluctant to sell the speakers by themselves unless you happen to already own the proper model Crown or ML amps with the proper JBL crossover/EQ component. It may be a tough sell to get them to sell the speakers/eq only. Besides wanting to sell their own Harman brand amplifiers, they want to guard the reputation and quality of these speakers in terms of associated amplifiers and proper setup. You can have us ask though.

Based on everything I have heard from my JBL contact's, this speaker is considered special, even by their standards. I was told that even Kevin Voecks, the Revel speaker designer who hates horns, really likes the M2's. However it is a cumbersome system with up to three chassis of electronics, more cabling with biamping and requires measuring to properly setup with it's room correction feature. JBL offer's to send a technician to the homes of buyers of the M2 but of course it runs as much as $5k to do this. It's appearance is a bit industrial as well compared to most home speakers. For all of these reasons, I went with a pair of Everest's instead, which with the DD-66000 discontinued, we sell for as little as $25,000 a pair new.

Audio Video Logic
1-515-727-2279

joeinid
04-02-2014, 08:44 PM
Hi John,

Thank you for the reply. I am a previous customer of yours and Mike's. I bought my TAD CR-1's from you guys two years ago to the month and appreciated the great service. We'll have to talk after I demo the Crown package of the JBL M2's. Thanks!

Joe

shoshaw
04-03-2014, 04:29 AM
I am excited about the possibility of getting the JBL M2 setup as my home audio 2 channel setup. I hope to be able to hear them locally in about a month with the Crown amp package, but know of some dealers (none local) with the Mark Levinson version of the JBL M2 speakers. Is anyone using the M2's as home audio speakers? The one dealer with the Crown Package may sell the speakers and BSS London 160 processor separately, allowing me to use my own amps. Any guidance would be much appreciated. Thanks!

I can't speak to a dealer's willingness to "break up the package" but I can confirm a few things stated by JPW. First, the M2 is considered special. Kevin Voecks and many other key contributors at Harman have made statements to this effect. As I stated in an earlier thread, not one person I spoke with at Harman regarding the M2 had anything but praise for them. I asked about the 4700, the array 1400 the K2 and the M2. In each and every case, at least one person had something critical to say about each model except the M2.

I presently have the M2 in LCR positions in my home theater. They replaced the Revel F30/C30 combo. All other things being equal, I had to reduce the M2 amp gain by 9 dB in order to get them to match the rest of the system. Suffice it to say that the M2 is efficient. I cannot fathom any situation where 300W is not enough in the home environment. That said, I chose the Crown option because of the flexibility and room correction. When I monitor the output using Audio Architect at mind blowing SPL levels, the meters are only just beginning to light up.

In terms of sound quality, you won't be disappointed with the M2. I personally think they sound better than the K2 in every way. They make the Revel F30s sound like toys. Dynamics and linearity are simply amazing. From an imaging perspective, all I can say is "stunning". I've rediscovered music! My wife thinks I'm insane because when I'm listening to them, I simply just can't stop smiling. I can only wholeheartedly say "go for it!"

jpw
04-03-2014, 06:56 AM
Joe,

Absolutely I remember you. Call anytime to talk. John

joeinid
04-03-2014, 09:13 AM
Joe,

Absolutely I remember you. Call anytime to talk. John

Thanks John!



I can't speak to a dealer's willingness to "break up the package" but I can confirm a few things stated by JPW. First, the M2 is considered special. Kevin Voecks and many other key contributors at Harman have made statements to this effect. As I stated in an earlier thread, not one person I spoke with at Harman regarding the M2 had anything but praise for them. I asked about the 4700, the array 1400 the K2 and the M2. In each and every case, at least one person had something critical to say about each model except the M2.

I presently have the M2 in LCR positions in my home theater. They replaced the Revel F30/C30 combo. All other things being equal, I had to reduce the M2 amp gain by 9 dB in order to get them to match the rest of the system. Suffice it to say that the M2 is efficient. I cannot fathom any situation where 300W is not enough in the home environment. That said, I chose the Crown option because of the flexibility and room correction. When I monitor the output using Audio Architect at mind blowing SPL levels, the meters are only just beginning to light up.

In terms of sound quality, you won't be disappointed with the M2. I personally think they sound better than the K2 in every way. They make the Revel F30s sound like toys. Dynamics and linearity are simply amazing. From an imaging perspective, all I can say is "stunning". I've rediscovered music! My wife thinks I'm insane because when I'm listening to them, I simply just can't stop smiling. I can only wholeheartedly say "go for it!"

Hi shoshaw,

Reading you posts has gotten me excited about the possibility of the M2 in my home. When you received the Crown/M2 package did you have any dealer setup done or are you doing it all by yourself? What scares me is that the Levinson package is very involved to setup correctly. I assume that the Crown package can be too but for some reason I think I can get by better with this package. I am not sure how I'll enjoy the Crown amps until I actually hear them with my music. I was not fond of early Crown Audio gear and think Levinson would sound better or even my own amps would sound more towards my liking. Thanks!

shoshaw
04-03-2014, 10:01 AM
Thanks John!




Hi shoshaw,

Reading you posts has gotten me excited about the possibility of the M2 in my home. When you received the Crown/M2 package did you have any dealer setup done or are you doing it all by yourself? What scares me is that the Levinson package is very involved to setup correctly. I assume that the Crown package can be too but for some reason I think I can get by better with this package. I am not sure how I'll enjoy the Crown amps until I actually hear them with my music. I was not fond of early Crown Audio gear and think Levinson would sound better or even my own amps would sound more towards my liking. Thanks!

I did all the work myself. I used REW software with a USB soundcard and a calibrated MIC I purchased from Parts Express. The amp files for the Crown amps can be downloaded from the JBL Pro site. For the most part, I had a few room-related tweaks to make and I implemented a "house curve" I find appealing. I've been through days of debate on other threads in this forum related to the pluses and minuses of changing the factory EQ settings. My belief is simply that the flexibility is there so why not use it? It's sold as a huge benefit in the M2 sales material and I KNOW that the designers went out of their way to include EQ for such reasons.

The Crown amps have noisy fans so be prepared to lock them away in a closet or in a different room. The programming can all be done via Audio Architect over ethernet and it's very intuitive. It is my opinion that the Crown amps sound great. I really cannot imagine the system sounding any better. I'm smiling right now just thinking about it.:D

joeinid
04-03-2014, 11:04 AM
Wow!

You are giving me tremendous hope. I may need a little hand holding and reach out for help. Thank you for the encouragement.




I did all the work myself. I used REW software with a USB soundcard and a calibrated MIC I purchased from Parts Express. The amp files for the Crown amps can be downloaded from the JBL Pro site. For the most part, I had a few room-related tweaks to make and I implemented a "house curve" I find appealing. I've been through days of debate on other threads in this forum related to the pluses and minuses of changing the factory EQ settings. My belief is simply that the flexibility is there so why not use it? It's sold as a huge benefit in the M2 sales material and I KNOW that the designers went out of their way to include EQ for such reasons.

The Crown amps have noisy fans so be prepared to lock them away in a closet or in a different room. The programming can all be done via Audio Architect over ethernet and it's very intuitive. It is my opinion that the Crown amps sound great. I really cannot imagine the system sounding any better. I'm smiling right now just thinking about it.:D

shoshaw
04-03-2014, 11:25 AM
Wow!

You are giving me tremendous hope. I may need a little hand holding and reach out for help. Thank you for the encouragement.

I'd be happy to help.

joeinid
04-03-2014, 11:32 AM
Awesome! Thank you.

I hope to hear them locally before next month when the dealer gets setup. I can't wait.



I'd be happy to help.

Valentin
04-03-2014, 04:40 PM
Hi i wll be recevieing a pair of M2 for my listening room and have heard the M2 at NY

incedible speakers i wll be making a special rack for the noisy fans


regards

Valentin

joeinid
04-03-2014, 05:29 PM
Congratulations Valentin! I'd love to see photos when you are done.

Mctwins
04-03-2014, 09:20 PM
Hallo!

I am happy for you guy's who will have a system like this. If I would have this system I would choose One Crown I-Tech 4x3500HD with Speakon.

One Crown produce less fan noice and easier to make a box and installation would also be easier.

:)

pos
04-04-2014, 02:20 AM
I did all the work myself. I used REW software with a USB soundcard and a calibrated MIC I purchased from Parts Express
Beware: unless they recently resolved the problem, calibration files from parts express have been known to be completely off and basically useless: better send it to cross-spectrum or similar to get proper calibration data.

pos
04-04-2014, 02:27 AM
I was told that even Kevin Voecks, the Revel speaker designer who hates horns, really likes the M2's.9This might be due to the ultra wide directivity (>110) that is specific to that new M2 waveguide: it probably makes it more alike multiway direct radiator speakers.

Mctwins
04-04-2014, 09:17 AM
61839

61840
Crown Amplifier, you are getting into the world of Pro-Audio:applaud:

Mctwins
04-04-2014, 09:20 AM
One more:bouncy:

61841

joeinid
04-04-2014, 09:21 AM
Cool photos! Thanks!

Mctwins
04-04-2014, 09:24 AM
Cool photos! Thanks!

Thanks:) It's Bobeccas system, sounds gooood!!

joeinid
04-04-2014, 09:30 AM
I would love to use two McIntosh MC452 or four MC601's on the JBL M2 speakers, but I think it would be too much of a problem right now. I know a crossover/processor is available separately, but I am not sure what would be necessary to do it correctly.

Mctwins
04-04-2014, 09:49 AM
I would love to use two McIntosh MC452 or four MC601's on the JBL M2 speakers, but I think it would be too much of a problem right now. I know a crossover/processor is available separately, but I am not sure what would be necessary to do it correctly.

You can use McIntosh but you must use BSS Sounds Web London too get the most benefit from the setting to those speakers, or use Crowns.

The settings for those speakers is important.

joeinid
04-04-2014, 09:57 AM
I will be talking to one dealer during a demo next month about this possibility. Thank you.



You can use McIntosh but you must use BSS Sounds Web London too get the most benefit from the setting to those speakers, or use Crowns.

The settings for those speakers is important.

Mctwins
04-04-2014, 10:00 AM
You must hear it with the Crowns, you won't regret it, it's a helava amplifier:applaud:

Crowns support is superb as well.

joeinid
04-04-2014, 10:04 AM
I will. This dealer will have it setup and dialed in with the Crown amps. They are in the process of moving to a new (and closer) location to me. I am very much looking forward to hearing the system. He's a pro dealer and seems very willing to make their customers happy.



You must hear it with the Crowns, you won't regret it, it's a helava amplifier:applaud:

Crowns support is superb as well.

Mctwins
04-04-2014, 10:07 AM
I will. This dealer will have it setup and dialed in with the Crown amps. They are in the process of moving to a new (and closer) location to me. I am very much looking forward to hearing the system. He's a pro dealer and seems very willing to make their customers happy.

Nice, you will be in good hands. He will shure explain everything you need to know.

Once you enterd the Pro world there is no turning back.:D

joeinid
04-04-2014, 11:09 AM
Hmmmm. Very interesting. I always keep an open mind and I believe you are correct. As long as I can either setup or tweak as necessary without the dealer or with very little
dealer involvement, I'll be ecstatic.


Nice, you will be in good hands. He will sure explain everything you need to know.

Once you enterd the Pro world there is no turning back.:D

Mctwins
04-04-2014, 11:21 PM
Hmmmm. Very interesting. I always keep an open mind and I believe you are correct. As long as I can either setup or tweak as necessary without the dealer or with very little
dealer involvement, I'll be ecstatic.

Off course, it is more fun and challenging to exerperiance it by yourself.

You have to keep in mind that the M2 dosen't have any x-over build into the speakers. I was thinking of about your MC452 choice, if you go that route. Horisontal bi-amping is the only way to connect the M2 and use only the BSS DSP, if using other DSP you will have hard time to aligning the M2 to respect to x-over setting and parametric EQ. Two differen't DSP model don't have the same settings for a particular speaker, hope you understand.

You can't vertically bi-amp the M2 using MC452 because you don't have the x-over settings in the MC452 as it is with the Crowns, Crowns splits the x-over freq in the amplifier to bass and tweeter.

If you go with Crowns you will get all the benifit with the settings and allready have build in DSP, so why complicate things. The Crowns have also peak-limiter http://www.crownaudio.com/media/storagebk/pdf/support/ITech HD LevelMax Limiter Readme File.pdf, which is a great feature.

I say, You must go with Crowns, but off course, you don't have to listen to me.:D

joeinid
04-04-2014, 11:33 PM
Thank you for the information on the Crowns. I know it would be much easier to use the Crown (or Levinson) amps as the package dictates, but I fear the sound will not be "warm" enough for my taste. I will reserve judgement until it hear it for myself on familiar music. I tend to gravitate towards a more musical sound for my home audio and mentally associate pro sound with a more truthful, higher resolution sound. I hope that I love what I hear. The ability to tweak the sound and remove the room via DSP could be amazing. I am excited at the thought.

Mctwins
04-05-2014, 12:13 AM
Thank you for the information on the Crowns. I know it would be much easier to use the Crown (or Levinson) amps as the package dictates, but I fear the sound will not be "warm" enough for my taste. I will reserve judgement until it hear it for myself on familiar music. I tend to gravitate towards a more musical sound for my home audio and mentally associate pro sound with a more truthful, higher resolution sound. I hope that I love what I hear. The ability to tweak the sound and remove the room via DSP could be amazing. I am excited at the thought.

About "warm", it has nothing do what kind of amplifier you use, it's about your room acoustics.

I have to correct myself regarding the "You can't vertically bi-amp the M2 using MC452", you can, if you reroute the signal to the MC452 via the BSS.

Something to think about........
Maybe, the MC452 can handle the differen't load from the speaker but maybe some amplifier can't. Quad 909, for example, can't.

Dave_72
04-12-2014, 11:43 AM
I would personally go for the Levinson.

macaroonie
04-12-2014, 06:34 PM
I may be missing something here but I fail to see the problem in using Brand X competent DSP in conjunction with Brand X Y or Z Amps to achieve the correct solution for the M2
4313B posted the filter data at the end of last year. I have the XTA software in my computer , it's a breeze to use and I reckon I could load up the corrections , filters , shelves in about 20 mins. From that point on your choice of amps is moot. Krell , why not , Bryston , why not , Mac , why not and so on. Oh , Toobs too.

Any of the good DSP's will accommodate the filtering required , That could be Xta , Xilica BSS , etc etc

For anyone wanting to play with the software get Audiocore 8.85 on this page

http://www.audiocore.co.uk/software-audiocore_info_download.html

It's worth a shot just to get a handle on how these things work Audiocore is nice and easy to use.


M2 filter data , all you need is here http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?33972-JBL-Master-Reference-Monitor&p=354289&viewfull=1#post354289

audiomagnate
04-12-2014, 09:16 PM
I may be missing something here but I fail to see the problem in using Brand X competent DSP in conjunction with Brand X Y or Z Amps to achieve the correct solution for the M2
4313B posted the filter data at the end of last year. I have the XTA software in my computer , it's a breeze to use and I reckon I could load up the corrections , filters , shelves in about 20 mins. From that point on your choice of amps is moot. Krell , why not , Bryston , why not , Mac , why not and so on. Oh , Toobs too.

Any of the good DSP's will accommodate the filtering required , That could be Xta , Xilica BSS , etc etc

For anyone wanting to play with the software get Audiocore 8.85 on this page

http://www.audiocore.co.uk/software-audiocore_info_download.html

It's worth a shot just to get a handle on how these things work Audiocore is nice and easy to use.


M2 filter data , all you need is here http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?33972-JBL-Master-Reference-Monitor&p=354289&viewfull=1#post354289

I bet you could get really close with a DCX2496 and a couple of decent pro amps.

Mctwins
04-13-2014, 10:54 PM
Hallo!

There is more advantages when using Crowns, less signal cables to deal with because with the allready inbuild DSP. Four cables from pre to amp, DSP, and cables to the speakers and you are done.

The I-tech technology is :applaud:

How did it go, have you had any listening?:bouncy:

Mostlydiy
04-13-2014, 11:50 PM
I may be missing something here but I fail to see the problem in using Brand X competent DSP in conjunction with Brand X Y or Z Amps to achieve the correct solution for the M2
4313B posted the filter data at the end of last year. I have the XTA software in my computer , it's a breeze to use and I reckon I could load up the corrections , filters , shelves in about 20 mins. From that point on your choice of amps is moot. Krell , why not , Bryston , why not , Mac , why not and so on. Oh , Toobs too.

Any of the good DSP's will accommodate the filtering required , That could be Xta , Xilica BSS , etc etc

For anyone wanting to play with the software get Audiocore 8.85 on this page

http://www.audiocore.co.uk/software-audiocore_info_download.html

It's worth a shot just to get a handle on how these things work Audiocore is nice and easy to use.


M2 filter data , all you need is here http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?33972-JBL-Master-Reference-Monitor&p=354289&viewfull=1#post354289

Im with you on this one. I cant see why it wouldnt work with either dsp and amp as long as the correct dsp settings are up n running. The stock system though is tested extensively and apparently it works fine.

Ive read several times that the M2 can be delivered with Levinson amps. What amp are those? 532, 532h, 531h, 533h? Is it up to the local dealers to decide how they want to arrange the parts or is it a compelete package from Harman?

/Mostly

Mctwins
04-13-2014, 11:59 PM
Here is a video from Crown....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0belqh9MVM

great amp that beats all :D

Mctwins
04-14-2014, 12:02 AM
Here is another.....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqmU8Usxzpo

Mctwins
04-14-2014, 12:06 AM
And, This is the best...:applaud:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TdJDaX_Y0A

Mostlydiy
04-14-2014, 12:08 AM
Im sure the crowns are great but I think most people consider them to be PA amps. If people would use the M2 in their hifi setup in their homes, I bet most of them would opt for other more hifi oriented amps.

/Mostly

Mctwins
04-14-2014, 12:09 AM
Eric is the man....:)

Mctwins
04-14-2014, 12:10 AM
Im sure the crowns are great but I think most people consider them to be PA amps. If people would use the M2 in their hifi setup in their homes, I bet most of them would opt for other more hifi oriented amps.

/Mostly

Yes I understand. But, it is perfect for the M2.

discus96
03-12-2015, 03:42 AM
I have the M2 with the Crown Itech 5000 HD for one year now, and they are born one for the other.
I understand today divorce is more on fashion than marriage for life, but you can only go worse.........

I have plenty of JBL monitors including the venerable 4350, the 4345, 4343 and 4333 and I have plenty of amps consumer and pro, class A class AB, class I,
and whatever you may think of, but the advantages of having such a

SIMPLE SYSTEM as a computer with BIT PERFECT digital out, going directly into the digital IN of the CROWN I-TECH 5000 HD , biamping the M2 and avoiding cables, preamps, and worse of all, a passive crossover:

PAYS HUGE benefits.

The SOUND, CLARITY, and Effortless POWER is AWESOME !

discus96
03-12-2015, 03:49 AM
Just a picture of some JBLs including the M2 with the Crown Itech

1audiohack
03-12-2015, 06:15 AM
SWEET!!!

That is a great collection!

Barry.

pos
03-12-2015, 06:21 AM
Nice!!
Is there anything that the old monitors do better than the M2?
I mean, 18" or double 15" woofers ought to beat a single 15"...

4313B
03-12-2015, 08:33 AM
Nice!!
Is there anything that the old monitors do better than the M2?
I mean, 18" or double 15" woofers ought to beat a single 15"...You're going to have to hear the 2216Nd as used in the M2 with the Crown amps...

JuniorJBL
03-12-2015, 08:35 AM
I may be missing something here but I fail to see the problem in using Brand X competent DSP in conjunction with Brand X Y or Z Amps to achieve the correct solution for the M2
4313B posted the filter data at the end of last year. I have the XTA software in my computer , it's a breeze to use and I reckon I could load up the corrections , filters , shelves in about 20 mins. From that point on your choice of amps is moot. Krell , why not , Bryston , why not , Mac , why not and so on. Oh , Toobs too.

Any of the good DSP's will accommodate the filtering required , That could be Xta , Xilica BSS , etc etc

For anyone wanting to play with the software get Audiocore 8.85 on this page

http://www.audiocore.co.uk/software-audiocore_info_download.html

It's worth a shot just to get a handle on how these things work Audiocore is nice and easy to use.


M2 filter data , all you need is here http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?33972-JBL-Master-Reference-Monitor&p=354289&viewfull=1#post354289







The only thig I would add is the fact that programmers use different algorithms to get done what they need done and thus outcomes will vary depending on the manufacturer. Some make better DSP modules than others.

macaroonie
03-12-2015, 12:52 PM
The only thig I would add is the fact that programmers use different algorithms to get done what they need done and thus outcomes will vary depending on the manufacturer. Some make better DSP modules than others.

Clearly the JBL/Crown option is plug and play but I expect you would still EQ for the room using measurements. Likewise for an Ad Hoc DSP + Amps you would do the same so should arrive at much the same destination.

pos
03-13-2015, 03:39 PM
You're going to have to hear the 2216Nd as used in the M2 with the Crown amps...

The only thing I can judge so far is its weight: it feels lighter than a 2123H, and it actually is at... 4.5kg ?!!

Oh and yes, that thing looks absolutely beautifully made :D

Valentin
03-13-2015, 05:43 PM
The M2 Rocks

I am a very happy costumer

discus96
03-17-2015, 07:28 AM
In my collection I have the whole 43xx studio monitors series either in their Alnico version A, or in ferrite version B.
I love them all for one reson or another, but If I compare the 4350 A or 4345 to the M2 it is clear that time has passed by and technology and the DIGITAL DOMAIN have arrived with a great impact on sound and performance. Also they are so Flexible with their programmable DSP: EQ, xover, limiter, compressor and top notch D/A conversion, that you can place them anywhere and once professionally set up, they sound perfect anywhere. The DSP flexibility is Huge, allows you to play with music and sound to your liking.

The 4350 is a fantastic system and still sounds great to me but it is terribly directional, if you move little lateral you loose all the high freqencies, the mids are a little too forward, but this could very well be due to the old capacitors in the crossovers or worse the new JBL diaphgrahms of the 2440 drivers.
The M2 highs is where I can hear a clear difference crystal clear, no listening fatigue, human voice exactly as it is.

The bass section with the two old 100 Watts 2231H is just amazing, I love it, and to me its is better than the M2.

The 4345 are not as puchy and detailed like the 4350, to me not as good as the 4350 nor the M2.

1audiohack
03-17-2015, 08:15 AM
Nice, nice and nice!

Barry.

JeffW
03-17-2015, 11:46 AM
Do you have any JBL spear guns? :D

More than once when searching for JBL stuff on the 'net, I've come across JBL spear guns.

martin2395
03-17-2015, 02:31 PM
Now we have to wait for JBL M2 WX.
Oh man, they would look gorgeus with that classic blue + walnut veneer. :eek:

ivica
03-18-2015, 03:15 AM
In my collection I have the whole 43xx studio monitors series either in their Alnico version A, or in ferrite version B.
I love them all for one reson or another, but If I compare the 4350 A or 4345 to the M2 it is clear that time has passed by and technology and the DIGITAL DOMAIN have arrived with a great impact on sound and performance. Also they are so Flexible with their programmable DSP: EQ, xover, limiter, compressor and top notch D/A conversion, that you can place them anywhere and once professionally set up, they sound perfect anywhere. The DSP flexibility is Huge, allows you to play with music and sound to your liking.

The 4350 is a fantastic system and still sounds great to me but it is terribly directional, if you move little lateral you loose all the high freqencies, the mids are a little too forward, but this could very well be due to the old capacitors in the crossovers or worse the new JBL diaphgrahms of the 2440 drivers.
The M2 highs is where I can hear a clear difference crystal clear, no listening fatigue, human voice exactly as it is.

The bass section with the two old 100 Watts 2231H is just amazing, I love it, and to me its is better than the M2.

The 4345 are not as puchy and detailed like the 4350, to me not as good as the 4350 nor the M2.

Hi discus96,

This is very, very, very nice JBL collection.

Concerning the directionality "problem" may be the room is too "vivid" so the reflections from the surfaces ( walls, floor, ceiling) would introduce very emphasis comb-filter effects that are position dependent.

First question: have You ever tried to use larger compression driver (from 4350) instead of smaller compression driver in 4345 ?
Second question: have You ever tried to use DSP assisted EQ and/or DSP driven crossover applied to old 43xx speakers?

Regards
Ivica

Dave_72
03-19-2015, 04:12 AM
In my collection I have the whole 43xx studio monitors series either in their Alnico version A, or in ferrite version B.
I love them all for one reson or another, but If I compare the 4350 A or 4345 to the M2 it is clear that time has passed by and technology and the DIGITAL DOMAIN have arrived with a great impact on sound and performance. Also they are so Flexible with their programmable DSP: EQ, xover, limiter, compressor and top notch D/A conversion, that you can place them anywhere and once professionally set up, they sound perfect anywhere. The DSP flexibility is Huge, allows you to play with music and sound to your liking.

The 4350 is a fantastic system and still sounds great to me but it is terribly directional, if you move little lateral you loose all the high freqencies, the mids are a little too forward, but this could very well be due to the old capacitors in the crossovers or worse the new JBL diaphgrahms of the 2440 drivers.
The M2 highs is where I can hear a clear difference crystal clear, no listening fatigue, human voice exactly as it is.

The bass section with the two old 100 Watts 2231H is just amazing, I love it, and to me its is better than the M2.

The 4345 are not as puchy and detailed like the 4350, to me not as good as the 4350 nor the M2.

Turn that shit up! :D

Dave M
07-06-2015, 01:02 PM
I'm wondering if M2 still sounds great for the horn lovers. Ir seems M2 doesn't sound like horn speaker any more. I don't want a JBL sounds like B&W, to be honest...

Also I'm curious if the improvement you guys hear is due to digital crossover design (FIR Linear Phase?) or physical speaker design.

4313B
07-06-2015, 01:35 PM
I'm wondering if M2 still sounds great for the horn lovers.It is designed as a very high quality tool for the recording industry. Some people have repurposed it for home use to great effect, the Harman Luxury division included.


Ir seems M2 doesn't sound like horn speaker any more.That has been one of the design goals at JBL for quite some time, get rid of the "horn sound" while retaining the power and dynamics. As G.T. stated a few years back "We got rid of that a long time ago...".


Also I'm curious if the improvement you guys hear is due to digital crossover design (FIR Linear Phase?) or physical speaker design.Each component (including the enclosure) of the M2 sports the latest and greatest R&D Harman can muster. The active filters with DSP is icing on the cake. Quite frankly, the system potential is just too damn good to eff up with a bunch of passive filter components. (I feel the same way with respect to the higher end JBL Consumer products too but I can certainly empathize with the ease of use of passive filters for them, not to mention the fact that they are Consumer products as opposed to Pro products).


I was told that even Kevin Voecks, the Revel speaker designer who hates horns, really likes the M2's.I talked with Kevin at one of the trade shows a couple years ago right next to the M2. I have yet to meet anyone who has said "meh" or "whatevski" to the M2...

pos
07-06-2015, 02:33 PM
(FIR Linear Phase?)
Nope.
Only minimum-phase corrections are used, implemented using the IIR capabilities of the Crown amplifier.

ISAVE
05-29-2016, 12:49 AM
I got these great M2 two weeks ago to be my home reference audio, (future home studio also)
I was totally following the book, I got one Crown I-Tech 4x3500HD to power them.
The good result :D: out of box they sounded just perfect! all the details, the accuracy, nothing is more or less. They are the great speakers to spot any recording imperfection.

The bad :crying:: the amp fans are unbelievable noisy, they are 52db without any load @ 3ft distance and 60db in front of it.
I placed the amp in a closet, in order to minimize the fan noise, which actually did. Then I was able to do an actual 2 hours of listing.
Here are my results, (mixing board was set to 0 unity gain, I-tech amp is set to -25db) beside the sound is perfect, after about 1 hours of listing I felt that this is more than enough. my ears got tired. They needed to get rest after about 1 hour of listing in this volume.
There is noticeable too high distortion or THD, to be used for long hours of listening.Now I decided to return the amp, and look for an alternative amp so I can enjoy listening to the M2.

I will try to get 2 Crown I-Tech 5000HD to see if things will get any better (Which I doubt).
After several phone calls with JBL pro, they advised that I can use any amps I like with BSS Sound web London, but the amps has to be no less than 1200 watts per driver. To me this is next to impossible to find any Hi-Fi or even Studio Amp even close to that number. The only option is use a touring amp like Crown's, Lab Gruppen or similar...

Even Bryston highest wattage mono-block is only 1000 watts, and it cost about $12000 each mono, which will be $46000 for the 4 mono's!!! I think this is way too much.
Even Mark Levinson will cost somewhere close to that with half of that power.

I am sure there is something I am not able to understand, but I really need to find the amp that can handle these monsters!
I need help please

My previous home system was JBL Ti5000 with Musical Fidelity A5, they sounded very nice (not as perfect as the M2) but I was able to keep listening for several hours with high volume without getting tired of listening

pos
05-29-2016, 01:13 AM
I a using hypex nc400 amps on my clones, and am quite happy with the result, although i did not compare with the original Crown amps.

johanwholst
05-29-2016, 03:25 AM
For my clones, I use a Crown cts 1200 (600w @ 8 ohm) with silent fan on the woofers and a 25w class A (aleph J) on the compression driver. Notice though that with the passive network in the M2 (witch I do not use) a larger amplifier on the compression driver would be needed

But 1200w for the D2 is overkill imo... and most likely for the woofer as well for domestic use
A set of smaller Brystons would probably be sufficient. Isn't the recommended Mark Levingson amps 300w?

Valentin
05-29-2016, 04:37 AM
I got these great M2 two weeks ago to be my home reference audio, (future home studio also)
I was totally following the book, I got one Crown I-Tech 4x3500HD to power them.
The good result :D: out of box they sounded just perfect! all the details, the accuracy, nothing is more or less. They are the great speakers to spot any recording imperfection.

The bad :crying:: the amp fans are unbelievable noisy, they are 52db without any load @ 3ft distance and 60db in front of it.
I placed the amp in a closet, in order to minimize the fan noise, which actually did. Then I was able to do an actual 2 hours of listing.
Here are my results, (mixing board was set to 0 unity gain, I-tech amp is set to -25db) beside the sound is perfect, after about 1 hours of listing I felt that this is more than enough. my ears got tired. They needed to get rest after about 1 hour of listing in this volume.
There is noticeable too high distortion or THD, to be used for long hours of listening.Now I decided to return the amp, and look for an alternative amp so I can enjoy listening to the M2.

I will try to get 2 Crown I-Tech 5000HD to see if things will get any better (Which I doubt).
After several phone calls with JBL pro, they advised that I can use any amps I like with BSS Sound web London, but the amps has to be no less than 1200 watts per driver. To me this is next to impossible to find any Hi-Fi or even Studio Amp even close to that number. The only option is use a touring amp like Crown's, Lab Gruppen or similar...

Even Bryston highest wattage mono-block is only 1000 watts, and it cost about $12000 each mono, which will be $46000 for the 4 mono's!!! I think this is way too much.
Even Mark Levinson will cost somewhere close to that with half of that power.

I am sure there is something I am not able to understand, but I really need to find the amp that can handle these monsters!
I need help please

My previous home system was JBL Ti5000 with Musical Fidelity A5, they sounded very nice (not as perfect as the M2) but I was able to keep listening for several hours with high volume without getting tired of listening


Hi Isave

You do not need 1200 watts per speaker that is a fact
I have been using a crown DCI N4/300. and it's more than enough for a 3 m. Listening distance
It all depends the volume you mix with


DCI do have a fan but it is a lot softer than the itech 5000 I also have

JBL has even put out the DCI tune in in their soft ware downloads





If your intention is a two way system you can use a Bss blu 50 which is fan less. And pair them with the amps of your desire Brystons 4b would do nicely and 14b should be vast for most applications


JBL synthesis uses a mark levinson 300watt per Chanel amp in their set up why would you not


By the way Bss units do have a fan only the Bss blu 50 is fan less

Dave M
05-29-2016, 03:52 PM
I got these great M2 two weeks ago to be my home reference audio, (future home studio also)
I was totally following the book, I got one Crown I-Tech 4x3500HD to power them.
The good result :D: out of box they sounded just perfect! all the details, the accuracy, nothing is more or less. They are the great speakers to spot any recording imperfection.

The bad :crying:: the amp fans are unbelievable noisy, they are 52db without any load @ 3ft distance and 60db in front of it.
I placed the amp in a closet, in order to minimize the fan noise, which actually did. Then I was able to do an actual 2 hours of listing.
Here are my results, (mixing board was set to 0 unity gain, I-tech amp is set to -25db) beside the sound is perfect, after about 1 hours of listing I felt that this is more than enough. my ears got tired. They needed to get rest after about 1 hour of listing in this volume.
There is noticeable too high distortion or THD, to be used for long hours of listening.Now I decided to return the amp, and look for an alternative amp so I can enjoy listening to the M2.

I will try to get 2 Crown I-Tech 5000HD to see if things will get any better (Which I doubt).
After several phone calls with JBL pro, they advised that I can use any amps I like with BSS Sound web London, but the amps has to be no less than 1200 watts per driver. To me this is next to impossible to find any Hi-Fi or even Studio Amp even close to that number. The only option is use a touring amp like Crown's, Lab Gruppen or similar...

Even Bryston highest wattage mono-block is only 1000 watts, and it cost about $12000 each mono, which will be $46000 for the 4 mono's!!! I think this is way too much.
Even Mark Levinson will cost somewhere close to that with half of that power.

I am sure there is something I am not able to understand, but I really need to find the amp that can handle these monsters!
I need help please

My previous home system was JBL Ti5000 with Musical Fidelity A5, they sounded very nice (not as perfect as the M2) but I was able to keep listening for several hours with high volume without getting tired of listening

Hypex would probably be a nice choice. Clean, low price, no noise, low distortion, high dumping factor. I don't own M2, but I have been using a few different Hypex as home studio amps. Requires a little bit of DIY, though...

Mctwins
05-29-2016, 09:07 PM
I placed the amp in a closet, in order to minimize the fan noise, which actually did. Then I was able to do an actual 2 hours of listing.
Here are my results, (mixing board was set to 0 unity gain, I-tech amp is set to -25db) beside the sound is perfect, after about 1 hours of listing I felt that this is more than enough. my ears got tired. They needed to get rest after about 1 hour of listing in this volume.
There is noticeable too high distortion or THD, to be used for long hours of listening.Now I decided to return the amp, and look for an alternative amp so I can enjoy listening to the M2.



Hallo!

Too me, you have the best amp here. Keep it!! There has to be something wrong with your setup.

Why do you set the amp at -25dB? Do you mean Output Level?

Try this....

"I asume you are using the settings for the M2 and using System Architect as well."

On the "Source Configuration" set the Input Sensitivity at 26dB gain and set the Output Level at 0dB. What are you using here? There is "Custom", "26dB" and "32 dB" of Input Sensitivity to choose from.

There is no high distortion or high THD that you can hear. The listening fatigue is due to, maybe, your bad room acoustics or bad recordings.

There is alot of error that can be done with a system like this.:)

I have Crown MA5000i driving JBL 4365 and it sounds great here. Yes, I agree about the fan noise, it dosen't bother me. My computer on the side sounds the same.

johnlcnm
05-30-2016, 01:33 PM
Hi discus96,

This is very, very, very nice JBL collection.

Concerning the directionality "problem" may be the room is too "vivid" so the reflections from the surfaces ( walls, floor, ceiling) would introduce very emphasis comb-filter effects that are position dependent.

First question: have You ever tried to use larger compression driver (from 4350) instead of smaller compression driver in 4345 ?
Second question: have You ever tried to use DSP assisted EQ and/or DSP driven crossover applied to old 43xx speakers?

Regards
Ivica

Hello Ivica,

Have 4333Bs. Using two I-Tech 5000 HDs in a Bi-Amp. configuration. The biggest improvement in these old JBLs is using a one millisecond delay to the woofers. Cleans up the mid range in a pretty spectacular way. Also using a number of PECs for EQ in the base and upper horn/ring radiator section. In my opinion this configuration produces quite an improvement with these guys. I still cannot believe the definition in the mid range with these old horns. I've owned a number of systems in the past, including B&W 802s and Acustat electrostatics. I will take these old 4333s over them any day.

Regards,

John

ISAVE
05-31-2016, 11:55 PM
Hello everybody,

Thank you all for the valuable information, that you added to my knowledge.
Based on the experience that some of you has with these speakers that are out of the book ( I mean not Crown i-tech), I can understand that 1200 watts obsticle is not there.

But 1200w for the D2 is overkill imo... and most likely for the woofer as well for domestic use
A set of smaller Brystons would probably be sufficient. Isn't the recommended Mark Levingson amps 300w?
That's a good point, yes JBL have a alternative setup for them with ML for high end home use. This mean 300 watts should be fine.


Too me, you have the best amp here. Keep it!! There has to be something wrong with your setup.

Why do you set the amp at -25dB? Do you mean Output Level?
I'm sorry I already returned the I-tech 4x3500HD, I couldn't handle the floor noise of this amp or in other word the distortion; it's a great great great touring amp!! but not a studio nor home amp to my opinion.
The -25db I put on the output, because the room can't handle much power, and just a trial to keep the fans working less.
I will get tomorrow a pair of I-tech 5000HD from a local AV company and try them out. Based on papers they have signal-to-noise >112 and THD 0.1% , while the I-tech 4x3500HD has signal-to-noise >108 and THD 0.35%,
So on papers, these should be less floor noise, and I already tested the fan noise, and it's 5 db less on them both compared to the 4x3500HD.
I will update the thread once I did my test.


You do not need 1200 watts per speaker that is a fact
I have been using a crown DCI N4/300. and it's more than enough for a 3 m. Listening distance
It all depends the volume you mix with

Thank you Valentin!
This is a helpful answer, now I know that I don't need to be very concerned about getting the sky rocketing 1200 watts!

Now after trying these 5000HD, the next ste is to try out a pair of Bryston 4B SST from a local dealer, I need your help in this:
I don't have a BSS processor, and not willing to buy it until I decide what amps I will end up with.
So the question is: How can I set the Brystons to work properly. I have a digital console Midas M32 that I can rout 4 different outputs and do shelving EQ simulating the crossover role. Also I can set up a delay on the bass outputs, I think it's 0.270 milliseconds?
Any idea if I this could work just for testing purpose?

I spoke today with Bryston Canada, the engineer advised to try a pair or the 4B SST and if the sound had enough power then I keep them the way they are, if not then I can bridge them and get another pair and bridge them. He assured that in case I bridged the amps, I have to make sure that drivers doesn't go below 4 Ohms. Bridging these 4B SST make them 900 or 1000 watts each amp.

Have a wonderful night All :)

1audiohack
06-01-2016, 07:12 AM
[QUOTE]; I will get tomorrow a pair of I-tech 5000HD from a local AV company and try them out. Based on papers they have signal-to-noise >112 and THD 0.1% , while the I-tech 4x3500HD has signal-to-noise >108 and THD 0.35%.[QUOTE]

This is exactly the reason I bought the 5000's. 6dB quieter on the digital side (front end) and lower THD driving such a revealing speaker might just be, well, revealing.

I am keenly interested in how your comparison goes.

All the best,
Barry.

ivica
06-01-2016, 12:25 PM
Hello Ivica,

Have 4333Bs. Using two I-Tech 5000 HDs in a Bi-Amp. configuration. The biggest improvement in these old JBLs is using a one millisecond delay to the woofers. Cleans up the mid range in a pretty spectacular way. Also using a number of PECs for EQ in the base and upper horn/ring radiator section. In my opinion this configuration produces quite an improvement with these guys. I still cannot believe the definition in the mid range with these old horns. I've owned a number of systems in the past, including B&W 802s and Acustat electrostatics. I will take these old 4333s over them any day.

Regards,

John
Hi John,
Using time compensation between bass and VHF in order to compensate 12+ inch 2312 horn length is something expectable, even steeper network rasponse (say 24 dB/oct LR round 800Hz) would be wellcome too, I suppose.
In 3amp solution comb filter effect round 9kHz can be reduced using proper time delay of the UHF driver abd 24dB LR network too.
Other EQ I would not expect to be needed (with 2308 lenses installed).
As I have experienced I would prefer 244x&2311&2308 instead of 242x&2312&2308.
Regards
Ivica

srm51555
06-01-2016, 03:51 PM
Hi Isave

You do not need 1200 watts per speaker that is a fact
I have been using a crown DCI N4/300.

Hi Valentin,

I also have the dci 4/300n running my diy M2's and was wondering your thoughts between it and the itech series amp.

Thanks,
Scott

ISAVE
06-04-2016, 12:45 AM
Hello Barry,


I am keenly interested in how your comparison goes
I had a chance today to get a pair of 5000HD and connect them. I only had less than 30 minutes of listening time.
From this short session it's clear that these amps are noticeably less noise than the 4x3500HD
Also, the fan noise is much less noise on the pair of 5000

I still need to do some serious listening session tomorrow to get clear results.

Now I think I will be able to get 2 Bryston 4b sst demo units to give them a try; I'll try to get them tomorrow.
But I need a configuring of the crossover using a digital mix board. I know it's not gonna be perfect like the preset from BSS or Crown, but at least it should do the basic job of the crossover .

Please anybody can help me with these configuration?

Thanks :)

pos
06-04-2016, 06:08 AM
But I need a configuring of the crossover using a digital mix board. I know it's not gonna be perfect like the preset from BSS or Crown, but at least it should do the basic job of the crossover .

Please anybody can help me with these configuration?


There is not reason for it not to be perfect, as long as you have enough EQ points and flexibility at hand.
Look in my signature for the google doc documenting the EQ settings implemented in the original Crown preset, and ways of adapting them to other DSP devices.

JBLAddict
06-05-2016, 10:36 AM
It is designed as a very high quality tool for the recording industry. Some people have repurposed it for home use to great effect, the Harman Luxury division included.

That has been one of the design goals at JBL for quite some time, get rid of the "horn sound" while retaining the power and dynamics. As G.T. stated a few years back "We got rid of that a long time ago...".

Each component (including the enclosure) of the M2 sports the latest and greatest R&D Harman can muster. The active filters with DSP is icing on the cake. Quite frankly, the system potential is just too damn good to eff up with a bunch of passive filter components. (I feel the same way with respect to the higher end JBL Consumer products too but I can certainly empathize with the ease of use of passive filters for them, not to mention the fact that they are Consumer products as opposed to Pro products).

I talked with Kevin at one of the trade shows a couple years ago right next to the M2. I have yet to meet anyone who has said "meh" or "whatevski" to the M2...


I went to "THE Show Newport" two days ago and spent some time talking to Kevin and the other guys in the three Harman rooms (one with K2 playing at an inaudible whisper, and two Revel rooms that that were clearly their focus). I Asked about the future of JBL Synthesis and a few other things. He (and the other guys) elaborated on a few details that from a brand name perspective were very encouraging, quite the opposite of the speculation I've read here--we shall see How this manifests in terms of new products and their relationship to the heritage. To the scope of this thread, it took him no time flat to state his opinion on "what's wrong with all horns", but the admiration he has for what was accomplished with the M2 as a result of Harmans talent and infrastructure--was very complimentary of Floyd Toole in that respect. Anyway don't want to reprint the full conversation but it appears high end is far from dead and Kevin does hate horns indeed :-)

ISAVE
06-24-2016, 02:31 AM
Hello all,
I would like to start with special thank you to POS for his help.

There is not reason for it not to be perfect, as long as you have enough EQ points and flexibility at hand.

Actually I had a chance to get "as loaner" a BSS soundweb blu processor unit and 2 Bryston 4B SST2 power amps:
These amps are 300 watts per channel, they sounded very good, and filled the M2 with good amount of muscular power, no fan noise which give thumbs up to Bryston, very smooth mids and highs.
The only place where I found them not enough is I felt they are not controlling the woofers enough, and I felt I needed more power.
I almost hit unity gain at my mixer in a small-mid size room, and felt they need some more energy boost. I wished I had more output power at a specific audio track.

Here were Crowns I-TECH showed off there muscles.
The low frequencies that Brystons gave is not bad at all, nor missing anything; it's wonderful and smooth but they are just not moving the woofer enough or as powerful as the Crowns did.

On the other hand I liked the sound of the D2 drivers with Bryston a bit over the Crowns, more smooth and a bit less THD, while I heard the same details from both.
Brystons on paper are much less THD and noise overall than I-TECH-5000HD, but when used with the M2 the difference appeared less to my ears.

The thing is I didn't had them at the same time to do A/B, and only had the Bryston for one short day.
Also I tried to bridge the the Brystons to power one M2 each driver from a full 4B SST2 which is about 900-1000 watts, I couldn't tell much difference as I only had one M2 up. But I felt the woofer moved better.

Doing that will require 4 Brystons amps for a pair of the M2 which will significantly increase the system cost a lot.


FYI
My media source is Fiio X3 though Soundcraft EFX-8 mixer
My listing materials are "Modern Cool" and "Night Club" albums to "Patricia Barber" ripped mp3 @256Kbps


I would like to apologize for the long explanation, but I felt that some of you would like to hear how the test went.

At this point, I don't know how to proceed.:blink:

Regards

srm51555
06-24-2016, 06:04 AM
I would like to apologize for the long explanation, but I felt that some of you would like to hear how the test went.

At this point, I don't know how to proceed.:blink:



Thanks for the update. I was wondering what the results were. It may seem like you want to try something like Johan is doing with the Crown on the bottom and something else on the top. This is the way I'm leaning towards if I stay active.

Is there any place in the Chicago area where one can demo a pair of M2's. I'm only about 90 minutes north and would like to hear a production unit for comparison to my DIY versions.

Thanks,
Scott

ISAVE
06-25-2016, 01:10 AM
Hi Scott,


It may seem like you want to try something like Johan is doing with the Crown on the bottom and something else on the top. This is the way I'm leaning towards if I stay active
I thought of doing actually, and this would be a nice setup if these speakers will be used as a high end home HiFi speakers.
While for a monitoring speakers, I'm kind of afraid of doing this, because there will some different in the signal curve between different amps types.
I believe this can be corrected through a BSS DSP, but I this need high level of audio engineering that I'm afraid I can't do it perfectly.

My use for them is for both, as a High End home HiFi, and a reference monitoring speakers for my recording mixer.


Is there any place in the Chicago area where one can demo a pair of M2's. I'm only about 90 minutes north and would like to hear a production unit for comparison to my DIY versions.
I couldn't find a place where they demo these speakers, as they are not meant for home use originally and studios that consider having them, they have special arrangements for testing.
The other option is you are welcome to come over to my home and listen to them, once I had them powered.

Regards

iansr
08-25-2016, 08:56 AM
I've just got my newly acquired M2s up and working. Thanks to Thomas' great work I'm using the openDRC DIs. A Crown K2 is driving the woofers and a pair Ncore 400 monos are driving the CDs. As a temporary measure I'm using 2 Chinese DAC boards that cost all of $12 each. Even so the sound is superb 😀

audiomagnate
08-31-2016, 01:47 PM
I've just got my newly acquired M2s up and working. Thanks to Thomas' great work I'm using the openDRC DIs. A Crown K2 is driving the woofers and a pair Ncore 400 monos are driving the CDs. As a temporary measure I'm using 2 Chinese DAC boards that cost all of $12 each. Even so the sound is superb 😀

I bet they do. I'm dying to hear a pair after all this time. Some of that cheap Chinese stuff sounds excellent.

johanwholst
09-01-2016, 01:17 AM
I get away with 25w on the compression driver, since Im using 2450sl/be and no Lpad in the signal path.
D2 with the network in place would require way more power to sing.

One alternative is to bypass the network and connect the two diaphragms in parallell instead of series, but now we are venturing into diy territory, and modification to the filter is required.

Jonas_h
11-04-2016, 12:10 AM
Hi Isave

You do not need 1200 watts per speaker that is a fact
I have been using a crown DCI N4/300. and it's more than enough for a 3 m. Listening distance
It all depends the volume you mix with


DCI do have a fan but it is a lot softer than the itech 5000 I also have

JBL has even put out the DCI tune in in their soft ware downloads





If your intention is a two way system you can use a Bss blu 50 which is fan less. And pair them with the amps of your desire Brystons 4b would do nicely and 14b should be vast for most applications


JBL synthesis uses a mark levinson 300watt per Chanel amp in their set up why would you not


By the way Bss units do have a fan only the Bss blu 50 is fan less

Hi Valentin.

Are you still using the DCi 4|300 for the M2's?

I have 3 M2s coming to function as LCR in a home theater and I currently have one Crown CTs1200 (2x600w) pr. speaker and a BSS Soundweb as DSP. I would really like to simplify my setup, and the DCI amps with BLU-link are very interesting - especially the 8-channel versions where I can drive three speakers off one amp.

But I am split between the 8x300 and 8x600. The 8x600 is bigger, noisier and more expensive... As it will be used for movies, I need large amount of peak power. Do you (or others) have experience running the M2s on a 300w amp?

Jonas_h
11-04-2016, 03:28 AM
I'm sorry I already returned the I-tech 4x3500HD, I couldn't handle the floor noise of this amp or in other word the distortion; it's a great great great touring amp!! but not a studio nor home amp to my opinion.
The -25db I put on the output, because the room can't handle much power, and just a trial to keep the fans working less.
I will get tomorrow a pair of I-tech 5000HD from a local AV company and try them out. Based on papers they have signal-to-noise >112 and THD 0.1% , while the I-tech 4x3500HD has signal-to-noise >108 and THD 0.35%,
So on papers, these should be less floor noise, and I already tested the fan noise, and it's 5 db less on them both compared to the 4x3500HD.
I will update the thread once I did my test.

I might be wrong, but I'm inclined to say that your impressions with the I-Tech 4x3500HD is caused by user error. Either wrong gain structure or something setup wrongly in the amp's DSP. I have heard the 4x3500HD myself and I have talked to numerous people having the amp with the M2s, and non of them mentions noise floor or distortion as an issue. "Not being able to handle noise floor and distortion" just sounds like you either "listen to the written specs" or something was setup incorrectly.

Valentin
11-04-2016, 07:15 PM
Hi Valentin.

Are you still using the DCi 4|300 for the M2's?

I have 3 M2s coming to function as LCR in a home theater and I currently have one Crown CTs1200 (2x600w) pr. speaker and a BSS Soundweb as DSP. I would really like to simplify my setup, and the DCI amps with BLU-link are very interesting - especially the 8-channel versions where I can drive three speakers off one amp.

But I am split between the 8x300 and 8x600. The 8x600 is bigger, noisier and more expensive... As it will be used for movies, I need large amount of peak power. Do you (or others) have experience running the M2s on a 300w amp?

Yes i am

for movies the 600 would have 3 more dB of headroom
dependson size of the room

Mctwins
11-04-2016, 11:10 PM
Hallo!

Jonas h....

If you look at the owner manual at page 55 the 8/300N and 8/600N has the same fan noise, 47dB, this at "re dB SPL @ 1 M".

I would go for 8/600N, no doubt.

srm51555
11-05-2016, 06:12 AM
But I am split between the 8x300 and 8x600. The 8x600 is bigger, noisier and more expensive... As it will be used for movies, I need large amount of peak power. Do you (or others) have experience running the M2s on a 300w amp?

I'm currently running the dci 4x300N. It's been more than enough power for me except for when the wife and kids went out for the weekend and my M2's were moved into another room and Stravinsky's rite of spring was played. The "-10" light did come on during some of the last parts of part 2. Given the peak power needed I'd go for the 8x600 too!

Jonas_h
11-07-2016, 12:51 AM
Thanks for the replies!

Regarding fan noise, I see that they have the same fan-noise so one less issue :) I will go for the 600w version based on the input when the time is right and be happy with the CTs1200 (2x600w as well) in the meantime. Movies require large peak-power and I will feel safer with 600w.