My new JBL 4429

[Mctwins]

Hallo!

I had JBL 4319 before and I got me a brand new JBL 4429 instead. :applaud::bouncy:

Wow, I must say, great sounding speakers. Horn sound is, well, horn sound just sounds nice. I just connected it about two hours ago. Sounds allready good. Playing at same volume setting as with the 4319, namly at 50% at the volume on my McIntosh C48 and the amp is the same MC252.

Break-in:dont-know: don't know what this mean:D

Fantastic speakers and job well done JBL.:)

Yummie.........

[hjames]

"Location: Earp" doesn't really tell us much - are you US based or Europe/Asia?

If US based, remember - we're always interested in how us JBL fans get a pair of Asia-market speakers ...

They do look great and if the sound is there too, why buy worn older speakers?




Hallo!

I had JBL 4319 before and I got me a brand new JBL 4429 instead. :applaud::bouncy:

Wow, I must say, great sounding speakers. Horn sound is, well, horn sound just sounds nice. I just connected it about two hours ago. Sounds allready good. Playing at same volume setting as with the 4319, namley at 50% at the volume on my McIntosh C48 and the amp is the same MC252.

Break-in:dont-know: don't know what this mean:D

Fantastic speakers and job well done JBL.:)

Yummie.........

[bubbleboy76]

Congrats! I love my 4429.

[audiomagnate]

I like that big white subwoofer.

[gferrell]

Very nice setup, wish I could have a listen!

[Mctwins]

"Location: Earp" doesn't really tell us much - are you US based or Europe/Asia?

If US based, remember - we're always interested in how us JBL fans get a pair of Asia-market speakers ...

They do look great and if the sound is there too, why buy worn older speakers?

I bought it from an authorized dealer here in Sweden. You can order and buy directly from Harman webpage http://www.jbl.com/localeselector/index.html. Really don't undertand why you folks from US can't buy it.:dont-know:

Don't understand what you mean by "why buy worn older speakers?" It is brand new .

[Mctwins]

I like that big white subwoofer.


:) It is not a subwoofer, it is a Helmholtz resonator, Varitunes V6.

[Mctwins]

Congrats! I love my 4429.


Very nice setup, wish I could have a listen!

Thanks, and it sure sounds nice.

[hjames]

I bought it from an authorized dealer here in Sweden. You can order and buy directly from Harman webpage http://www.jbl.com/localeselector/index.html. Really don't undertand why you folks from US can't buy it.:dont-know:

Don't understand what you mean by "why buy worn older speakers?" It is brand new .

No no - it was a compliment -
if you can buy nice new speakers like this, why would anyone buy old speakers instead ... :D

[Mctwins]

No no - it was a compliment -
if you can buy nice new speakers like this, why would anyone buy old speakers instead ... :D

Aha..Now I understand:)

[Mctwins]

I like this...."Professional Series".....No High-End:bouncy:

[Titanium Dome]

Very nice. Congratulations!

[martin_wu99]

Hallo!

I had JBL 4319 before and I got me a brand new JBL 4429 instead. :applaud::bouncy:

Wow, I must say, great sounding speakers. Horn sound is, well, horn sound just sounds nice. I just connected it about two hours ago. Sounds allready good. Playing at same volume setting as with the 4319, namly at 50% at the volume on my McIntosh C48 and the amp is the same MC252.

Break-in:dont-know: don't know what this mean:D

Fantastic speakers and job well done JBL.:)

Yummie.........
Congrates:D
4429 is very popular in China,i will say,much better than 4428,it has a great balance between performance and price, 25000RMB.
You'd better to spend some time to run in 4429:D
BTW,have you ever heard S3900?

[Dave_72]

Congrats! They look great, and probably sound even better! :coolness:

[Dave_72]

I bought it from an authorized dealer here in Sweden. You can order and buy directly from Harman webpage http://www.jbl.com/localeselector/index.html. Really don't undertand why you folks from US can't buy it.:dont-know:

Don't understand what you mean by "why buy worn older speakers?" It is brand new .

Wow, you can order the 4365s direct from the UK site!

http://uk.jbl.com/jbl_product_detail_uk/studio-monitor-4365.html

[martin_wu99]

Wow, you can order the 4365s direct from the UK site!

http://uk.jbl.com/jbl_product_detail_uk/studio-monitor-4365.html
4429 has two versions A and B
JBL seems form some fixed combinations such as 175Nd-3+138Nd in 4429,S4600,S4700,S3900
435AL+045Ti in 1400,4338,4348,but 4365 is a exception:D

[Dave_72]

Thanks for pointing that out martin. I'm still surprised that you can order online via the UK site! If I had the money right now, I would be getting a pair of those babies (4365).

[martin_wu99]

Thanks for pointing that out martin. I'm still surprised that you can order online via the UK site! If I had the money right now, I would be getting a pair of those babies (4365).I don't need to order on line there are almost every JBL type that available in China except M2:D

[Mctwins]

Hallo!

Thanks all for the kind comments:applaud:

Yesterday, I play around 25-250Watts on my MC252 for 6 hours and I consider them to be broken in now. I will continue to play loud today as well, it sounds fantastic. I am so pleased with them.

One can order all of the Studio Monitors on Swedish website as well:bouncy:

[Mctwins]

4429 has two versions A and B
JBL seems form some fixed combinations such as 175Nd-3+138Nd in 4429,S4600,S4700,S3900
435AL+045Ti in 1400,4338,4348,but 4365 is a exception:D

How do you see that it is A or B version? Nothing is telling this on my boxes or on the speakers.:confused:

It say on the box that they are Made in Mexico, very good finish and quality, paint, transducers and so on...

Even my 4319 was Made in Mexico..

175Nd-3 is used in Array 1000.

[Mctwins]

Congrates:D
4429 is very popular in China,i will say,much better than 4428,it has a great balance between performance and price, 25000RMB.
You'd better to spend some time to run in 4429:D
BTW,have you ever heard S3900?

No, I havent heard the S3900, I have heard Everest, 9800, S4700.

[Mctwins]

Blasting as much as I can without clipping the MC252.:) with bi-wire at 4 Ohm tap.

[Dave_72]

I don't need to order on line there are almost every JBL type that available in China except M2:D

I understand that, and that's cool...

[Dave_72]

How do you see that it is A or B version? Nothing is telling this on my boxes or on the speakers.:confused:

It say on the box that they are Made in Mexico, very good finish and quality, paint, transducers and so on...

Even my 4319 was Made in Mexico..

175Nd-3 is used in Array 1000.

Yeah, my S4700s were made in Mexico too. I was a little bit disappointed in this at first, but then I noticed that the quality is there as you have.

[BMWCCA]

Yeah, my S4700s were made in Mexico too. I was a little bit disappointed in this at first, but then I noticed that the quality is there as you have.

Obviously built to a price-point like most low-end and mid-fi stuff. The quality of parts and the overall design is not to the level of the High End manufacturers you listed. They can come close, but no cigar, imo. Basically JBL-Mexico is good mid fi, or upper mid fi. It's just not high end, imo.

Sound familiar?? :banghead:

[Dave_72]

Obviously built to a price-point like most low-end and mid-fi stuff. The quality of parts and the overall design is not to the level of the High End manufacturers you listed. They can come close, but no cigar, imo. Basically JBL-Mexico is good mid fi, or upper mid fi. It's just not high end, imo.

Sound familiar?? :banghead:

I'm not sure I know what you're getting at there. Can you be more specific?

If you're referring to my views on Emotiva, well I stand by what I said, and if I offended anyone, well sorry about that.

I am a subjectivist, and this appears to be a sea of objectivism around here. That's fine, I can handle that.

Anyway, that's it for now...

[BMWCCA]

I'm not sure I know what you're getting at there. Can you be more specific?

If you're referring to my views on Emotiva, well I stand by what I said, and if I offended anyone, well sorry about that.

I am a subjectivist, and this appears to be a sea of objectivism around here. That's fine, I can handle that.

Anyway, that's it for now...

Well, actually, those were your words used to describe the lack of credibility you assigned to Emotiva products. If "built-to-a-price-point" is criteria for being considered mid-fi, what do you call products from a company which shuts down all manufacturing in the USA and moves production to Mexico even in the face of knowledgeable long-time owners condemnation of the poor quality of said Mexican-made products?

And let's leave the Objectivism discussion to some other forum that will engage in such silliness and political diatribes. Ayn Rand should have shrugged herself. Here it's all about the music and if one product makes one member happy, who are you to tell them they're wrong?

[Dave_72]

Well, actually, those were your words used to describe the lack of credibility you assigned to Emotiva products. If "built-to-a-price-point" is criteria for being considered mid-fi, what do you call products from a company which shuts down all manufacturing in the USA and moves production to Mexico even in the face of knowledgeable long-time owners condemnation of the poor quality of said Mexican-made products?

And let's leave the Objectivism discussion to some other forum that will engage in such silliness and political diatribes. Ayn Rand should have shrugged herself. Here it's all about the music and if one product makes one member happy, who are you to tell them they're wrong?

Sure, that's right. However, I know that Emotiva is made in China, but I never attacked them for that or even brought it up. Anyway, yes that probably was the wrong move by Harman. But, to me the quality of my speakers is decent. Could it be better, of course, it can always be better in the grande scheme of things.

I'm not saying anyone's wrong per se. I am just expressing my opinions here, or am I not allowed to do that?

Are we even speaking the same language? I'm very confused here, to be honest. :confused:

[BMWCCA]

Are we even speaking the same language? I'm very confused here, to be honest. :confused:

I was simply taking the opportunity to demonstrate the folly of your Emotiva put-down in another thread. Obviously I'm a JBL fan but your dissing of Emotiva saying there's no way they could possibly be as good as name-brands was just silly. Of course they could be. Whether they are, or not, is up to how people perceive them after trying them—your experience included. But you chose to express your disdain in unsubstantiated absolutes.

By the way, Emotiva is dedicated to producing future lines here in USA. Not that that alone would make them rise above your mid-fi bias, but it is something to praise. Apple, too. Maybe it goes to our becoming another third-world country here in our pay gulf between the richest and poorest that our manufacturing costs can be thought of as competitive. But I deal with American-made quality every day when I sell a US-made BMW product, and they've proven the quality is there.


Made in the USA
The XMC-1 is the first product made in our all-new Nashville, Tennessee Production Center, which allows us exceptional control over every facet of the design and production process for ultimate quality.
http://shop.emotiva.com/products/xmc-1 (http://shop.emotiva.com/products/xmc-1)

[martin_wu99]

How do you see that it is A or B version? Nothing is telling this on my boxes or on the speakers.:confused:

It say on the box that they are Made in Mexico, very good finish and quality, paint, transducers and so on...

Even my 4319 was Made in Mexico..

175Nd-3 is used in Array 1000.
Look at the package box,there is rev.:B on it and is made in Mexico,before 2011,4429 is made in U.S.A,is rev.:A

[martin_wu99]

How do you see that it is A or B version? Nothing is telling this on my boxes or on the speakers.:confused:It say on the box that they are Made in Mexico, very good finish and quality, paint, transducers and so on...Even my 4319 was Made in Mexico..175Nd-3 is used in Array 1000.Rev.:B is also can be found in instruction manual.BTW,don't forget to replace speaker shortcut,they say original speaker shortcut is sound killer:crying:

[Mctwins]

Look at the package box,there is rev.:B on it and is made in Mexico,before 2011,4429 is made in U.S.A,is rev.:A

Thanks for the info. Did not notice this before on my box, tiny letters. This mean that this is the only difference, where it is made of...meaning what:dont-know:


Rev.:B is also can be found in instruction manual.BTW,don't forget to replace speaker shortcut,they say original speaker shortcut is sound killer:crying:

I am running in bi-wire, two seperate singel wire cables, connected at 4Ohms tap on my MC252, don't need or use the terminal jumpers.

[SEAWOLF97]

Rev.:B is also can be found in instruction manual.BTW,don't forget to replace speaker shortcut,they say original speaker shortcut is sound killer:crying:

443667-002 is the part number for the manual ..revision B

[Mctwins]

443667-002 is the part number for the manual ..revision B

I think so too......

[Mctwins]

Martin....

Do you have a box that shows rev.A and Made in USA?

[Mctwins]

If I am gonna use some terminal jumpers it will be the original from the 4429. Don't need any high-end jumpers. I did have Cardas cables once but these cables sounds as good as Cardas.

Here is the connection from my amp....look inside the amp, the blue and red cable, no high-end at all:D

[Mctwins]

About end....there is high-end, mid-end, low-end and then there is JBL-End and Pro-End.:applaud:

[Odd]

It's always fun to read members' experience with new JBL products. And the buyer is excited about how they sound.
But,
then comes a lot of nonsense from those who have no experience with the product.
Like, Made in the wrong country. The speaker needs new shortcuts and so on.
Who will hear the differences in 4 "cable?

Production in low-cost countries is today something found in all kinds of consumer products.

All owners of brand names, are keen to preserve their's reputation.
I think Harman and most others have good control and a focus on quality control that maintains their brand.

Continue to buy new high quality JBLs, even if they are from China or Mexico.

Too bad many of the new products are not for sale in America.
Could it be because of import taxes?

[hsosdrum]

Seawolf97 is correct: 443667-002 is the document control number for the owner's manual; the "Rev B" printed in the owner's manual refers to the revision number for the manual. The "Rev B" printed on the box refers to the revision number for the box artwork. Neither refers to the speaker inside. If the speaker was made in Mexico then the box says "Made In Mexico"; if the speaker was made in the USA then the box says "Made In USA". I know this because I'm the person who wrote and illustrated the owner's manuals for the 4429, 4319, 4365, Everest DD67000/DD65000 and the M2.

[Audiobeer]

Gotta ask man, Call me Cheesy! What did they go for in Dollars?

[martin_wu99]

Martin....

Do you have a box that shows rev.A and Made in USA?
No,i havn't got it,but early 4429 is made in USA indeed:D
Again,cables are very important,we often compare cables one by one repeatly, the difference is very big,no one is stupid enough to buy more expensive cables that without any function.
BTW,tube 300B is very match 4429,such as Audio Notes 300B,just try it:D

[martin_wu99]

About end....there is high-end, mid-end, low-end and then there is JBL-End and Pro-End.:applaud:
It is not about End,it is about hi-fi,mid-fi,low-fi:D

[Mctwins]

Seawolf97 is correct: 443667-002 is the document control number for the owner's manual; the "Rev B" printed in the owner's manual refers to the revision number for the manual. The "Rev B" printed on the box refers to the revision number for the box artwork. Neither refers to the speaker inside. If the speaker was made in Mexico then the box says "Made In Mexico"; if the speaker was made in the USA then the box says "Made In USA". I know this because I'm the person who wrote and illustrated the owner's manuals for the 4429, 4319, 4365, Everest DD67000/DD65000 and the M2.

Thanks for the info. Nothing is written about rev.A or rev.B on the speakers.

[Mctwins]

No,i havn't got it,but early 4429 is made in USA indeed:D
Again,cables are very important,we often compare cables one by one repeatly, the difference is very big,no one is stupid enough to buy more expensive cables that without any function.
BTW,tube 300B is very match 4429,such as Audio Notes 300B,just try it:D

I know that you are a High-end guy, but, the only tube amp I'm gonna connect to these speakers is the company who set the standard how a tube amp is performed with low distortion at full rated power is McIntosh.:D

[martin_wu99]

I know that you are a High-end guy, but, the only tube amp I'm gonna connect to these speakers is the company who set the standard how a tube amp is performed with low distortion at full rated power is McIntosh.:D
I'm not a high-end man myself:banghead:There are so many good tube amps such as Carry,ARC,Jadis,Kondo,etc.Mcintosh maybe powerful enough,but not good enough.

[SEAWOLF97]

i think high-end gears are made in europe,not in the America.

where do you get this stuff ? :dont-know:

[martin_wu99]

where do you get this stuff ? :dont-know:
My general view,maybe some exception:crying:

[hjames]

I'm not a high-end man myself:banghead:There are so many good tube amps such as Carry,ARC,Jadis,Kondo,etc.Mcintosh maybe powerful enough,but not good enough,i think high-end gears are made in europe,not in the America.

Think Again!

This is JBL site, features JBL, Harman, Altec gear ... why would you come here and insult the brand?

[SEAWOLF97]

where do you get this stuff ? :dont-know:


My general view,maybe some exception:crying:

yeah, maybe .... :rotfl:

[macaroonie]

Originally Posted by martin_wu99 View Post
i think high-end gears are made in europe,not in the America.
where do you get this stuff ?


Campagnolo :blink:

[martin_wu99]

Think Again!

This is JBL site, features JBL, Harman, Altec gear ... why would you come here and insult the brand?
How do you say that?we are just talking about how to match 4429:blink:

[martin_wu99]

yeah, maybe .... :rotfl:
Stop hi-end pls

[martin_wu99]

Originally Posted by martin_wu99 View Post
i think high-end gears are made in europe,not in the America.
where do you get this stuff ?


Campagnolo :blink:
Please get back to the topic 4429

[SEAWOLF97]

I'm not a high-end man myself:banghead:There are so many good tube amps such as Carry,ARC,Jadis,Kondo,etc.Mcintosh maybe powerful enough,but not good enough.


Please get back to the topic 4429

I enjoy the way that you name drop all this non-related stuff and then
tell others to get back on-topic.

[Dave_72]

I was simply taking the opportunity to demonstrate the folly of your Emotiva put-down in another thread. Obviously I'm a JBL fan but your dissing of Emotiva saying there's no way they could possibly be as good as name-brands was just silly. Of course they could be. Whether they are, or not, is up to how people perceive them after trying them—your experience included. But you chose to express your disdain in unsubstantiated absolutes.

By the way, Emotiva is dedicated to producing future lines here in USA. Not that that alone would make them rise above your mid-fi bias, but it is something to praise. Apple, too. Maybe it goes to our becoming another third-world country here in our pay gulf between the richest and poorest that our manufacturing costs can be thought of as competitive. But I deal with American-made quality every day when I sell a US-made BMW product, and they've proven the quality is there.


http://shop.emotiva.com/products/xmc-1 (http://shop.emotiva.com/products/xmc-1)

Well, my opinion stands, and that they're not as good as true high end brands. Emotiva is not true high end. The end.

[Mctwins]

Hallo!

Here is my measurements from my listeningposition with 4429:applaud:

[Mctwins]

I'm not a high-end man myself:banghead:There are so many good tube amps such as Carry,ARC,Jadis,Kondo,etc.Mcintosh maybe powerful enough,but not good enough.

McIntosh beats all of them you mentioned if we look at the THD at full rated power.

For example, Kondo Kagura has 50W@1kHz, 5% THD, and not better with the rest of the amps you said.

McIntosh MC275 version VI has....

Quote from the manual

"Total Harmonic Distortion
0.5% maximum harmonic distortion at any power
level from 250 milliwatts to rated power, 20Hz to
20,000Hz"

Intermodulation Distortion
0.5% maximum, if the instantaneous peak power
output does not exceed twice the rated power output
for any combination of frequencies from 20Hz to
20,000Hz.
:bouncy:

[bubbleboy76]

Hallo!

Here is my measurements from my listeningposition with 4429:applaud:

Nice curve!
I presume you have some subwoofer? The 4429 does not play that low, right?

[Mctwins]

Nice curve!
I presume you have some subwoofer? The 4429 does not play that low, right?

No subwoofer....

It's the Helmholtz Resonators Varitunes that is causing the good bass response, nothing else.

[martin_wu99]

McIntosh beats all of them you mentioned if we look at the THD at full rated power.

For example, Kondo Kagura has 50W@1kHz, 5% THD, and not better with the rest of the amps you said.

McIntosh MC275 version VI has....

Quote from the manual

"Total Harmonic Distortion
0.5% maximum harmonic distortion at any power
level from 250 milliwatts to rated power, 20Hz to
20,000Hz"

Intermodulation Distortion
0.5% maximum, if the instantaneous peak power
output does not exceed twice the rated power output
for any combination of frequencies from 20Hz to
20,000Hz.
:bouncy:
I know you like Mcitosh so much,but there are still so many good tubes in this world,such as Nagra,just try it:D

[Mctwins]

I know you like Mcitosh so much,but there are still so many good tubes in this world,such as Nagra,just try it:D

Nope, I won't connect Nagra on my system. Never.

I like Crown as well:applaud:

[martin_wu99]

Nope, I won't connect Nagra on my system. Never.

I like Crown as well:applaud:
Why do you like such black,with fan in it,not suitable for home use pro gear?:crying:do you just like lound sound intead of good sound?:dont-know:

[Mctwins]

Why do you like such black,with fan in it,not suitable for home use pro gear?:crying:do you just like lound sound intead of good sound?:dont-know:

Loud sound + Acoustical treatment = GOOD SOUND

You have to hear it to belive it, look at the freq response I posted.

[Mctwins]

Cumulative Spectral Decay from same measurements.

[Mctwins]

Burst Decay, most important, minimal resonances below 100Hz.

[Mctwins]

Forgott to mention that the mic(ListeningPos) is 6 meters away from where the speakers stands.

[audiomagnate]

Six meters? That seems like a long way to sit from a pair of speakers.

[martin_wu99]

Loud sound + Acoustical treatment = GOOD SOUND

You have to hear it to belive it, look at the freq response I posted.
I agreed that acoustical treatment is more important than simply replacing amp.but don't forget a better amp will make better sound in the same acoustical treated environment:D
BTW,data is not everything,we are not audio engineers,we just need pleasant sound to entertain our ears

[martin_wu99]

Forgott to mention that the mic(ListeningPos) is 6 meters away from where the speakers stands.
4429 is a near-field monitor,6 meters is too far away for it

[Mctwins]

Six meters? That seems like a long way to sit from a pair of speakers.


4429 is a near-field monitor,6 meters is too far away for it

It seems to far away but it is not, the sound is equally good If I sit 3 meters as 6 meters.

It dosen't matter for me if it is near-field or far-fields speakers. They sound good anyhow.


I agreed that acoustical treatment is more important than simply replacing amp.but don't forget a better amp will make better sound in the same acoustical treated environment:D
BTW,data is not everything,we are not audio ebgineers,we just need pleasant sound to entertain our ears

If you know what to look for regarding interpreting the acoustical data, then the data matters. It is the acosutical properties from the loudspeakers to your ear that is important. You need to read more about this subject.

It has nothing to do with the amplifier, I allready have a better amp.:)

[Mctwins]

Hallo!

Just for the fun of it. I pull down Bobeccas MC252 and connected it in Mono-Bridged Mode to drive these little babies. 500Watts/speaker:bouncy:

Yeah, now we are talking:applaud:

[martin_wu99]

Hallo!

Just for the fun of it. I pull down Bobeccas MC252 and connected it in Mono-Bridged Mode to drive these little babies. 500Watts/speaker:bouncy:

Yeah, now we are talking:applaud:
Beautiful,what the difference after you connecting MC252 into Mono-Bridged Mode? the low frenquency goes more deeper? or more solid?

[Mctwins]

Beautiful,what the difference after you connecting MC252 into Mono-Bridged Mode? the low frenquency goes more deeper? or more solid?

The only difference is more power.

I don't think that the low freq goes deeper. But, this can be measured. Of course, the mic and speakers schould be exactly at the same position when do this experiment and just change the amplifier from singel to mono.

Maybe some day I will do this.

[martin_wu99]

The only difference is more power.

I don't think that the low freq goes deeper. But, this can be measured. Of course, the mic and speakers schould be exactly at the same position when do this experiment and just change the amplifier from singel to mono.

Maybe some day I will do this.
Of course,more power.but we want to know more power brings what to your 4429?

[Mctwins]

Of course,more power.but we want to know more power brings what to your 4429?

To me.....the sound is the same, it only gives more power=more dynamics.

If I have 40% on my volume level on the preamp it gives 3dB or double the power from the amplifier to the loudspeaker.

If using singel amp in stereo then I don't have to force the amp as much as to compare to use in mono bridged.

If I have on my meters at -10db on the amp, with singel it gives 25Watts, the same in mono-bridged gives 50Watts. That's all.:)

[Mctwins]

Hallo!

I like this video....out performs any Class-A amp on the planet.:D:):applaud:

Something to learn...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=racw9PICT7Q

Class-I technology rules:bouncy:

[Mctwins]

Hallo!

I have been running in mono with my MC252 since I connected it and I must say, it is here to stay in this config. I had a fighting discussion with my twin brother regarding the price and finally it's mine.:)

He just orderd a Crown Macro-tech MA5000i to drive his 3731 M/HT instead of MC252 on his system. Yummie:bouncy:

It seems that the 4429 comes more alive with more power and it feels good.

[Bobecca]

HI

My impressions of the system is all good. This combo suites very nice togheter. The sound from the speakers is huge despite that it is an bookshelf speaker and located in a large acoustically treated room:applaud:.

Hat off for this pair of speakers. It has it all.

Yes, it was hard descision to let go of my MC252 but as long as it stays in the house it feels little better:D I know that my bro will take care of this amp!

I will still have my McIntosh MC275 monos tubes in my system and these babies will stay forever. I will run my new MAi for the tops, changed betweeen the tubes, know and then, and will be an intresting comparison to see how well the Crown will keep up with the Mcintosh. But I am not worried because these are the two best amp out there, for me at least.

I will stay tuned when all is hooked up and running;)

[Mctwins]

Hallo!

Today I have done some measurement at my listening position(4,8 meters from speakers to LP) and compared between mono-bridge and Bi-amp with my 4429. Also measurerd only Low freq and High freq but just only in Bi-amp config. The mic was not moved during the measurement just reconnecting between Mono and Bi-amp on the amps and I had the same volume settings on my preamp, 60% on the display on my pre.

One can see that with mono there is higher SPL at my listeningposition compared with Bi-amp.

It sounded good with Bi-amp but there is more punch with Mono. I listening with the same song at 50% at the volume level, the Mono is better. Wounder why:dont-know:

Post some picture of the room and some measurements. There is NO EQ or X-over settings on my PA+. Both Low output and High output was OUT on the x-over in PA+.

First pic shows the mic behind the sofa
Second pic shows mic behind sofa and the S-paper Wing moduls.
Third pic shows me sitting in the LP

Green = Mono Bridged
Red = Bi-amp
Yellow= High freq
Purple= Low freq

:)

[bubbleboy76]

Hallo!

Today I have done some measurement at my listening position(4,8 meters from speakers to LP) and compared between mono-bridge and Bi-amp with my 4429. Also measurerd only Low freq and High freq but just only in Bi-amp config. The mic was not moved during the measurement just reconnecting between Mono and Bi-amp on the amps and I had the same volume settings on my preamp, 60% on the display on my pre.

One can see that with mono there is higher SPL at my listeningposition compared with Bi-amp.

It sounded good with Bi-amp but there is more punch with Mono. I listening with the same song at 50% at the volume level, the Mono is better. Wounder why:dont-know:

Post some picture of the room and some measurements. There is NO EQ or X-over settings on my PA+. Both Low output and High output was OUT on the x-over in PA+.

First pic shows the mic behind the sofa
Second pic shows mic behind sofa and the S-paper Wing moduls.
Third pic shows me sitting in the LP

Green = Mono Bridged
Red = Bi-amp
Yellow= High freq
Purple= Low freq

:)

Maybe because the volume was higher with mono? That is my guess. The higher volume you have, the more bass you hear, that is how our hearing works.

Some amplifiers sounds better in bridged mode (if it is fully balanced), when some distortion is cancelled out by the bridging. Also impedance is changed when bridging, and changes the sound.

[Bobecca]

Maybe because the volume was higher with mono? That is my guess. The higher volume you have, the more bass you hear, that is how our hearing works.

Some amplifiers sounds better in bridged mode (if it is fully balanced), when some distortion is cancelled out by the bridging. Also impedance is changed when bridging, and changes the sound.

The volume was at 60% on the pre on both measurements as pointed out by OP. I believe that the amp gets more inefficient in bi-amp config due to not seeing the whole freq response. If no crossover in the speakers and active is used, this will not happen.

I think that the ohm tap is covered by OP;), 4ohms in bi-amp and in mono!

I told him before he did the mesurements to go with mono-bridge:)

[bubbleboy76]

The volume was at 60% on the pre on both measurements as pointed out by OP. I believe that the amp gets more inefficient in bi-amp config due to not seeing the whole freq response. If no crossover in the speakers and active is used, this will not happen.

I think that the ohm tap is covered by OP;), 4ohms in bi-amp and in mono!

I told him before he did the mesurements to go with mono-bridge:)

Both the measurements shows, and the initial statement said, that here were higher SPL with mono-bridge. Often I don't get you guys!

[Bobecca]

Both the measurements shows, and the initial statement said, that here were higher SPL with mono-bridge. Often I don't get you guys!

So, you dont get that there is in fact the same power output feeding the speakers, namely 500Watts.
Am I missing something here:eek::confused:

[Mctwins]

Maybe because the volume was higher with mono? That is my guess. The higher volume you have, the more bass you hear, that is how our hearing works.

Some amplifiers sounds better in bridged mode (if it is fully balanced), when some distortion is cancelled out by the bridging. Also impedance is changed when bridging, and changes the sound.

Hallo!

As I said, the volume level(knob) on my preamp was the same during the measurements between mono and bi-amp, namly 60%.

It is not only bass that has been increased, you forgott about the higher freq as well. The SPL increase affected the hole freq response.

On McIntosh the distortion level is the same in Stereo, Mono Bridged, Mono Bi-amp(Parallel).

Total Harmonic Distortion
Maximum Total Harmonic distortion at any power level from 250 milliwatts to rated power output is 0.005%

Intermodulation Distortion
Maximum Intermodulation Harmonic Distortion if instantaneous peak output per channel does not exceed twice the rated output, for any combination of frequencies from 20Hz to 20,000Hz, with all channels operation is 0.005%

The Output Load Impedance is ;
2, 4 or 8 ohms (Stereo Mode), 250 Watts
1, 2 or 4 ohms (Mono Bi-amp(Parallel) Mode), 500 Watts
4, 8 or 16 ohms (Mono Bridged Mode), 500 Watts.

The Impedance changes depends on what output tap you choose. I have connected it on the 2 Ohm tap in Mono Bridged Mode that gives 4 ohm loudspeaker Impedance. The Left Output is Negative and the Right Output is Posistive on the Loudspeaker connection. All this can be read in the Owner's Manual for the MC252. In the manual it say's, If the loudspeaker's impedance is inbetween the available connections, use the nearest lower impedance connection.

My guess for the increase in SPL level has to do that it changes the input signal (XLR) between these Mono combination. I lookt at the Service Manual for the MC252.

I will do a test in mono bridged mode between 4 ohm and 8 ohm tap on MC252 to see if there is some difference in the measurements at my listening position.

[Mctwins]

Hallo!

I have compared between 4 ohm vs 8 ohm tap on my MC252 in mono bridged mode and got these result at my listening position. Same volume level (60%) on my preamp when measured with ARTA. I gives more SPL connected to the 8 ohm tap.

I did also run a pink noise thru the system to see if there was any changes on the MC252 meters. At the same volume level(in this case, 48% volume level on my preamp) gave -20dB on my MC252 meters, so no changes here between 4 and 8 ohm tap.

The Red Line = 4 ohm
The Green Line = 8 ohm

[audiomagnate]

Now that they're no longer your "new" 4429's, what do you think of them?

[Mctwins]

Hallo!

I am still satisfied with the 4429 and still going strong. I have sold both of my MC252 to a happy owner and installed a singel Crown DCi 2/600N amp. I must say that the Crown amp suprize me in terms of the performance it does to the 4429. It sounded good with singel MC252, with mono it sounded even better(more power). I have notice that more power to the 4429 sounds best. With the Crown I am running in bi-wire mode.

Crown compare to MC252, the Crown has more grip hold on to the 4429. There seems to be more liveliness to the compression drivers.

The MC252 has served me perfectly for 9 years without any problems at all. I am still a fan of McIntosh.:)

Let's see if the Crown holds this many years, well, I think it will, only time will tell.....

[martin_wu99]

Hallo!

I am still satisfied with the 4429 and still going strong. I have sold both of my MC252 to a happy owner and installed a singel Crown DCi 2/600N amp. I must say that the Crown amp suprize me in terms of the performance it does to the 4429. It sounded good with singel MC252, with mono it sounded even better(more power). I have notice that more power to the 4429 sounds best. With the Crown I am running in bi-wire mode.

Crown compare to MC252, the Crown has more grip hold on to the 4429. There seems to be more liveliness to the compression drivers.

The MC252 has served me perfectly for 9 years without any problems at all. I am still a fan of McIntosh.:)

Let's see if the Crown holds this many years, well, I think it will, only time will tell.....
Do you really think MC252 is not as good as Crown DCi 2/600N?:blink:

[LowPhreak]

It seems that the 4429 comes more alive with more power and it feels good.



Don't they all? Though I often think it's not just more headroom that causes a perceived improvement, but because one can go a few dB's louder without clipping that gives the impression. Louder often seems better but it's just...louder.

[hjames]

Do you really think MC252 is not as good as Crown DCi 2/600N?:blink:

Not a question of which one is "Good" - its a question of a better match for those speakers.
Maybe the crown is a high current amp ...
Maybe its a warmer amp (or a cooler amp) and that is a better match for those speakers ...
lots of possible reasons ...

[audiomagnate]

Don't they all? Though I often think it's not just more headroom that causes a perceived improvement, but because one can go a few dB's louder without clipping that gives the impression. Louder often seems better but it's just...louder.

More headroom isn't a "perceived improvement" if it is required.

[LowPhreak]

^ Well that goes without saying, but wasn't my point. :)

[Mctwins]

Do you really think MC252 is not as good as Crown DCi 2/600N?:blink:

I didn't say that:confused:

MC252 is as good as the Crown and vice versa.

[Mctwins]

We can just speculate wheather the MC252 is better or not compared to the Crown DCi. Maybe there is a difference in the technical topology that differ them apart. Drivecore technology versus Class AB.

I am little bit suprized how good it performs to my 4429. I wasen't expecting this... That's all...

[Mctwins]

JBL synthesis has come up with a new amp, SDA 4600, looks like Crown DCi amps to me.:applaud:

http://www.jblsynthesis.com/Products/Details/252

[Mr. Widget]

JBL synthesis has come up with a new amp, SDA 4600, looks like Crown DCi amps to me.:applaud:

http://www.jblsynthesis.com/Products/Details/252What do you mean? ;)


Widget

.

[Odd]

Widget

Have you tried any of the new amplifiers on your speakers?
If so, how is the high end.
For me it looks like classe D. And that is what it is, I think.
I know M2 using something like this, nevertheless?

[Mr. Widget]

Widget

Have you tried any of the new amplifiers on your speakers?
If so, how is the high end.
For me it looks like classe D. And that is what it is, I think.
I know M2 using something like this, nevertheless?Not yet... I've ordered one for one of my projects, but it'll be awhile before I install it.


Widget

[Mctwins]

Hallo!

I have tested my brothers Crown XLS 1500 with my 4429 and have to say that it sounds very very good. I am running in single wire with Neutrik Speakon connectors. Good connectors, just a turn and a click on the amp, connected.

Little bit pity that I didn't tested with single wire with the MC252, well, well:dont-know:

I will add the newer Crown XLS 2002 to run the 4429.:)

[snip3r]

There's XTI 2002 ( balanced only )
http://www.crownaudio.com/en-US/product_families/xti-2-series

and XLS 2002 ( balanced and single ended ) http://www.crownaudio.com/en-US/products/xls-2002
http://www.prosoundweb.com/article/crown_introduces_upgraded_xls_drivecore_2_amplifie rs/church ( latest product )

Hence one has to have a true balanced system.
Would my DAC with digital pre works? http://www.productwiki.com/geek-pulse/ . I don't have a pre a the moment and powering with a 2a3. Also I'm thinking of horizontal bi-amp with the 2a3 and Crown not sure if it improves? Quite a number of my friends uses tube for highs and SS or lows.

[Mctwins]

There's XTI 2002 ( balanced only )
http://www.crownaudio.com/en-US/product_families/xti-2-series

and XLS 2002 ( balanced and single ended ) http://www.crownaudio.com/en-US/products/xls-2002
http://www.prosoundweb.com/article/crown_introduces_upgraded_xls_drivecore_2_amplifie rs/church ( latest product )

Hence one has to have a true balanced system.
Would my DAC with digital pre works? http://www.productwiki.com/geek-pulse/ . I don't have a pre a the moment and powering with a 2a3. Also I'm thinking of horizontal bi-amp with the 2a3 and Crown not sure if it improves? Quite a number of my friends uses tube for highs and SS or lows.

Hallo!

I would go with XLS 2002.

I am not familiar with the DAC you are reffering too. Don't understand the 2a3. Just forgett about bi-amping!

[johnhere]

Hello, would you like to compare 4319 with other JBL you've listened, such as 4429 in detailed description？Cheers.

[Valentin]

Hallo!

I had JBL 4319 before and I got me a brand new JBL 4429 instead. :applaud::bouncy:

Wow, I must say, great sounding speakers. Horn sound is, well, horn sound just sounds nice. I just connected it about two hours ago. Sounds allready good. Playing at same volume setting as with the 4319, namly at 50% at the volume on my McIntosh C48 and the amp is the same MC252.

Break-in:dont-know: don't know what this mean:D

Fantastic speakers and job well done JBL.:)

Yummie.........

hi Mctwins ejerce did you Get your bass traps from
is there a brand ?

[Mctwins]

Hello, would you like to compare 4319 with other JBL you've listened, such as 4429 in detailed description？Cheers.

Hallo...

Sorry for late response due to long vacation:) and I also have to say Sorry, I am not the right person to give you a detailed description between various JBL speakers. Maybe you could be more specific?

All I can say is that comparing the 4319 vs 4429 is huge. I did like the sound of 4319, but, maybe it is because I like horn compared to dome tweeter.

I still would go for 4312E instead of 4319. Much more punch in 4312E.

There is no harsh sound in 4429 just to put it simple.

My choice is still Everest compared to what I have listening.:D






hi Mctwins ejerce did you Get your bass traps from
is there a brand ?

Hallo...

You can talk to Matts Odemalm of www.diffusor.com (http://www.diffusor.com), he is the man you schould talk to if information about acoustics is nedeed.

There is a US based SMT supplier you can take a look http://www.accurateconstructionchicago.com/

but still, talk to Matts, he will give you more indepth insight how it works.

Thanks.

[watchnerd]

I don't mean to be rude by making a necro of this 2 year old thread, but OP are you still enjoying the 4429?

I'm considering getting a pair.

[Mctwins]

I don't mean to be rude by making a necro of this 2 year old thread, but OP are you still enjoying the 4429?

I'm considering getting a pair.

Hallo!

No problem.

Yes, I am still enjoying and very happy and satisfied with the performance the 4429 gives.

[joeinid]

http://highfidelity.pl/@main-450&lang=en

[mati1979]

Hi, i have bought 4429 yesterday :música:, i`ve 275 + pre c2300.

I have 10hs aprox.

How many hs. for break needs ?

you heard important changes in the sound after break in ?

[martin_wu99]

Hi, i have bought 4429 yesterday :música:, i`ve 275 + pre c2300.

I have 10hs aprox.

How many hs. for break needs ?

you heard important changes in the sound after break in ?

Wellcome you to the forum!

IMO,it will take one month to run in a new speaker,6-8 hrs per day,about 180-240 hrs

You will find big improvment on your new speaker after run in

[Mctwins]

Hi, i have bought 4429 yesterday :música:, i`ve 275 + pre c2300.

I have 10hs aprox.

How many hs. for break needs ?

you heard important changes in the sound after break in ?

Hallo!

For me, it took a couple of day's to break in the speakers. Played very loud with good bass content. I am not so into this "break in" thing fhenomena. Yes true, all mechanical movement has some break-in period but it is not so trivial.

It will sound better as time goes by. Enjoy!!

You have a great system!

Have done some changes to my system. Running my 4429 with Crown XLS 2002 amp with AudioLab M-DAC, mostly for TV listening.

Still have my Mcintosh C48 driving both Crown 2/600N drivcore install to my 4635 and Crown MA5000i driving my new JBL JRX225 speakers. JRX sounds great. :)

A tip, run one more MC275 in mono/speaker will sound even better.

[mati1979]

Thank you !
Today maybe i can ad another 10 hs :) for complete 25hs aprox.

[LowPhreak]

Just leave them playing all the time but lowered gain at night, etc. That's what I always do and it gets the break-in done faster.

Grats on the new speakers!

[mati1979]

bass still tight after 25hs.

I saw in many reviews, "The bass is tight and clean" .....and anothers: " Deep, visceral bass at all listening levels "

Is tight or deep (bass)? :confused:

I suppose that after 100 hours it should be more deep? I love a deep bass


79594

[bubbleboy76]

4429 does not play deep bass. The bass-reflex tuning is around 50Hz, if I remember correctly.
But it is very very tight bass. Wonderful speaker.

[mati1979]

i see from manual



FREQUENCY RESPONSE
40Hz – 45kHz (–6dB)





CROSSOVER FREQUENCIES
800Hz, 7kHz




i play for break in woofer, 20hz and move excellent.
I dont understand if say 40hz-45Khz how can move with 15-20Hz


JBL S3900 say 33Hz-45KHz, its tight bass also ?


For example S3900 say:




FREQUENCY RESPONSE
33Hz – 40kHz (–6dB)














CROSSOVER FREQUENCIES (HZ)
850Hz, 12kHz

[Thomax]

Hi

haven't posted here for a very long time, but since I bought some 4429 a year ago I can help...

I found that the speakers needed a very long breaking in. When they where new, I found the midrange and treble to be quite recessed. Over time, the compression drivers get broken in and the overall balance improved. Still the treble remains very soft and never agressive. The bass level doesn't really change over time.

The bass is not deep, as other people pointed out, it is very tight. Nevertheless it really depends on the recording, you'll often hear deep bass anyway. As with any speaker, depends from the acoustic of your room and placement.

I run mine with a ROTEL RC-1590 pre and two ROTEL RB-1582 MKII power amps. Very neutral and dynamic.

[Thomax]

i see from manual



FREQUENCY RESPONSE
40Hz – 45kHz (–6dB)





CROSSOVER FREQUENCIES
800Hz, 7kHz




i play for break in woofer, 20hz and move excellent.
I dont understand if say 40hz-45Khz how can move with 15-20Hz


JBL S3900 say 33Hz-45KHz, its tight bass also ?


For example S3900 say:




FREQUENCY RESPONSE
33Hz – 40kHz (–6dB)














CROSSOVER FREQUENCIES (HZ)
850Hz, 12kHz




40 Hz is the bass extension at -6 dB. Maybe you would hear 20 Hz, but at a lower volume. Again experiment with placement and amplifier. These speakers where made for the japanese market so they have lean bass by design.

You need quite some power to get good bass, I tried several amps and all gave different results.

[Mr. Widget]

bass still tight after 25hs.

I love a deep bassRooms, room placement and amps will all affect this. The MC275 would not be my first choice for deep and tight bass.


Widget

[mati1979]

Rooms, room placement and amps will all affect this. The MC275 would not be my first choice for deep and tight bass.


Widget

i understand you. But 4312SE had more deep bass with same mc275. :dont-know:

[Mr. Widget]

i understand you. But 4312SE had more deep bass with same mc275. :dont-know:I’ll take your word for it. I have never heard either pair of speakers and am not very familiar with either. That said, I have several speakers that play deeper than my E2s. I still prefer the E2s and like you, I also like deep tight bass.


Widget

[Ian Mackenzie]

(This is not a particularly serious post... more a don’t get hooked on that thought with some logic.)


The problem:
Am l happy with my new loudspeaker? Yes/No
How do l resolve my concerns?

The Logic:
How do you subjectively describe deep bass in a forum post?

What is deep bass and how deep is deep?

If you made reference to a particular track on a known CD then it would be identifiable.
Assuming this is bass you can feel it will either be felt or not felt?

It could be argued that so called deep bass is not a primary design function of a truly contemporary high fidelity loudspeaker simply because the laws of physics make it impossible without the enclosure being the size of a freezer and the waf would make it not viable.

Therefore it’s no longer a concern.

The Solution
Leave that problem to the amazing Bob Carver “sub” with a 2700 watt amp because Bob solves real audio problems.

[Mctwins]

Hallo!

One thing I have notice is that 4429 needs more power to sing and the bass performance to be good. As other has said, including me, many times that room acoustics plays an important role. I don't have that problem in my room.

If you look at my measurements it goes down to 30-ish or so hertz and modal resonances is minimal in my room. Modal resonances will play funny tricks how the speakers will sound.

I do belive that a singel MC452 is a perfect mach for 4429. One MC275 is to little power.

If this is your final speaker placement as shown in post 113 then you have problems.

When I play music I have deep and tight bass performance with my 4429. My room is +70 square meters and +170 cubic meters of volume. Thank you very much!!Room acoustics treatment.:)

[Thomax]

Hallo!

One thing I have notice is that 4429 needs more power to sing and the bass performance to be good. As other has said, including me, many times that room acoustics plays an important role. I don't have that problem in my room.

If you look at my measurements it goes down to 30-ish or so hertz and modal resonances is minimal in my room. Modal resonances will play funny tricks how the speakers will sound.

I do belive that a singel MC452 is a perfect mach for 4429. One MC275 is to little power.

If this is your final speaker placement as shown in post 113 then you have problems.

When I play music I have deep and tight bass performance with my 4429. My room is +70 square meters and +170 cubic meters of volume. Thank you very much!!Room acoustics treatment.:)

Is it the 450 W power amp ? If so that should sound great !

I had the opportunity to test a NuPrime MCH-K38 (http://www.nuprimeaudio.com/product/mch-k38/) in bridged mode (400 W per channel) on my 4429 and they loved it.

[toddalin]

(This is not a particularly serious post... more a don’t get hooked on that thought with some logic.)


The problem:
Am l happy with my new loudspeaker? Yes/No
How do l resolve my concerns?

The Logic:
How do you subjectively describe deep bass in a forum post?

What is deep bass and how deep is deep?

If you made reference to a particular track on a known CD then it would be identifiable.
Assuming this is bass you can feel it will either be felt or not felt?

It could be argued that so called deep bass is not a primary design function of a truly contemporary high fidelity loudspeaker simply because the laws of physics make it impossible without the enclosure being the size of a freezer and the waf would make it not viable.

Therefore it’s no longer a concern.

The Solution
Leave that problem to the amazing Bob Carver “sub” with a 2700 watt amp because Bob solves real audio problems.

That solution works for me and easily keeps up with the three L300s, four W10GTi/2425 surrounds, and W15GTi. But these will literally shake themselves to death and I had mine repaired twice before putting the amp in its own ventilated cabinet and putting a block off plate on the speaker enclosure.

http://www.audioheritage.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Sunfire_003.JPGhttp://www.audioheritage.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Sunfire_004.JPG