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Valveglow
02-27-2014, 05:50 PM
Hello all. Though I have done searches on this topic and consulted members of other forums on this topic, it seems as though my search for info should have begun here. If not, I am inclined to think it my issues will be resolved here. Thank you in advance.

I have purchased a pair of JBL 4435s, though I am not certain which version. I believe they were built in the late 80's, though again, I am not 100% sure of this. Jazz, mostly "Miles Davis-ish" (whatever that means) is what I spend most of my time listening to, though I also enjoy lots of other jazz, fusion, vocals, classic rock and Prog Rock as well. Generally, I listen at low to moderate volumes and rarely crank it up. Having purchased 4435s though, I do not want to forfeit that ability when the mood strikes me!

My concerns involve amplification and crossovers. I would like to use a set of VTL 225 Watt Triode Mono Blocks to power them, though I am also considering a Crown XTI amp (either a model 1000, 2000, or 4000) with plenty of steam to power the woofers. I also own VTL 100 watt mono blocks, so I could also use both sets of the tube amps. The issues are as follows:

Since the Crossover frequency is factory set at a critical 1Khz, I am concerned with the solid state amp possibly diminishing the wonderful presentation that a big tube amp can deliver smack in the middle of the midrange.
Some have said that utilizing the internal crossover is a great idea (though I do not have the internal cards that were available for these speakers) even if I run both amps.
I also have a JBL M552 Crossover, which I have heard would be superior to the internal crossover, though I have also heard the exact opposite!
Would you folks think that one tube amp would be sufficient? What about both sets of tube amps? Tubes on top and solid state (in the lower middle) and bottom? I'm sure that some of you would recommend two solid state amps. Regarding the crossover issue also, I greatly appreciate both individual and collective wisdom on your part. Thank you again!

audiomagnate
02-27-2014, 05:56 PM
I would go with electronic crossovers and tubes on the top. Just change one at a time and see which setup you like best.

Ian Mackenzie
02-28-2014, 04:33 AM
I would not waste those VTL amps on them imho.

However, I suggest try the 4 ohm tap on the mono blocks and how they perform.

If you play jazz then its the first watt that matters.

I would caution using the M552 initially in biamp mode as it will wash the sound with a hardened glare that will be painfully obvious using the VTLs. (Assuming you can afford the VTLs get a Passlabs XVR1 crossover from Renohifi and ask Kent English at Pass labs for advice on set up for the 4435s.)

The icing on cake is retro fitting Tad 2002 Be drivers to these bi radial systems.

You will then have it

Valveglow
02-28-2014, 04:37 PM
Oh, Oh! I'm a bit scared now! I simply cannot wait to play these 4435s. Are they that unimpressive/colored/2 dimensional/etc. that my tube amps would be a waste on them? I felt that if they did exhibit a hardness that the tubes would do much to "relax" the presentation, though the VTLs are not really soft sounding like a '60s tube amp.

The 4 Ohm tap makes sense to try, although would the impedance be closed to 8 or 4 for these speakers? What about for just the cheeks alone? Woofers alone? The JBL spec only says that the (total system) impedance is 8 and generally greater than 4 ohms.

I was a bit afraid of the M552 for the reason you identified. Is it possible to just run 2 different amps directly into the speakers' 2 taps, utilizing the internal crossover alone?

Thank you VERY much!



I would not waste those VTL amps on them imho.

However, I suggest try the 4 ohm tap on the mono blocks and how they perform.

If you play jazz then its the first watt that matters.

I would caution using the M552 initially in biamp mode as it will wash the sound with a hardened glare that will be painfully obvious using the VTLs. (Assuming you can afford the VTLs get a Passlabs XVR1 crossover from Renohifi and ask Kent English at Pass labs for advice on set up for the 4435s.)

The icing on cake is retro fitting Tad 2002 Be drivers to these bi radial systems.

You will then have it

Valveglow
02-28-2014, 04:39 PM
More sensible advice which I greatly appreciate. I am wondering though if I can use the 2 amps DIRECTLY into the 2 taps WITHOUT any external crossover. Thank you.



I would go with electronic crossovers and tubes on the top. Just change one at a time and see which setup you like best.

audiomagnate
02-28-2014, 07:59 PM
More sensible advice which I greatly appreciate. I am wondering though if I can use the 2 amps DIRECTLY into the 2 taps WITHOUT any external crossover. Thank you.

You have high and low inputs on your 4435's? I'm not seeing that on the schematic: http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Studio%20Monitor%20Series/4435LR.pd

allen mueller
03-01-2014, 12:37 AM
You need an external crossover to bi amp the 4435. The crossover slope for bi amping them is asymmetric so you either have to track down an old jbl crossover with the proper cards or get a dsp and replicate the slope of the crossover intended for biamping them.

This old thread explains it well:
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?1159-5235-Network-Plug-In-Card-52-5130&highlight=52-5130

Having 4435's my self and having done it both ways i wouldn't get stressed about going to bi amp right away. It is an improvement however you'll do just fine with some good amplification and the stock crossovers.

Allen

Ian Mackenzie
03-01-2014, 01:15 AM
4 ohm tap, the system is 4 ohm passive.

My expectation is you will post a big Grin

Fort Knox
03-01-2014, 04:04 AM
Oh, Oh! I'm a bit scared now!

Thank you VERY much!
I would use passive x-over for max sig/noise ratio
and tubes for best color..

Valveglow
03-01-2014, 05:15 AM
Thank you. Due to the high efficiency of the 4435s and the fact that I almost always listen at low to moderate levels, I thought that I'd have tons of power with my 225 Watt Triode Mono Blocks. However, having seen JBLs specs regarding recommended amplifier power, especially when biamped, 225 WPC seemed woefully inadequate. I'm (fairly) sure it's plenty for me though.

Conversely, I do have a choice of 3 Crown XTI amps to use for the bottom, rated at 275/500, 475/800, 650/1200 WPC into 8/4 Ohms respectively. These amps have a DSP which permits selection of XOVER frequencies, slopes, pre-mapped curves, EQ, etc., which I would have liked to hear as well. I have heard on this site (and elsewhere) that my M552 JBL external XOVER is really not the way to go. Finding the original cards ($$$) seems prohibitive and difficult these days. Going the "better, aftermarket" XOVER route is not really an option as these speakers initial cost plus shipping(!) was already a substantial hit.



You need an external crossover to bi amp the 4435. The crossover slope for bi amping them is asymmetric so you either have to track down an old jbl crossover with the proper cards or get a dsp and replicate the slope of the crossover intended for biamping them.

This old thread explains it well:
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?1159-5235-Network-Plug-In-Card-52-5130&highlight=52-5130

Having 4435's my self and having done it both ways i wouldn't get stressed about going to bi amp right away. It is an improvement however you'll do just fine with some good amplification and the stock crossovers.

Allen

Valveglow
03-01-2014, 05:27 AM
There are no dedicated 4 Ohm taps on my MB 225 amps, just a positive and negative for 4-16 ohms.

My first try will be with the MB 225s, and I do anticipate the big grin you mentioned. I may wind up selling the M552 XOVER unless I hear compelling arguments why it should be employed in the system. Nevertheless, my thoughts regarding the big Crown amp was really the woofer damping factor and not the maximun SPL.



I would not waste those VTL amps on them imho.

However, I suggest try the 4 ohm tap on the mono blocks and how they perform.

If you play jazz then its the first watt that matters.

I would caution using the M552 initially in biamp mode as it will wash the sound with a hardened glare that will be painfully obvious using the VTLs. (Assuming you can afford the VTLs get a Passlabs XVR1 crossover from Renohifi and ask Kent English at Pass labs for advice on set up for the 4435s.)

The icing on cake is retro fitting Tad 2002 Be drivers to these bi radial systems.

You will then have it


4 ohm tap, the system is 4 ohm passive.

My expectation is you will post a big Grin

audiomagnate
03-01-2014, 07:22 AM
Thank you. Due to the high efficiency of the 4435s and the fact that I almost always listen at low to moderate levels, I thought that I'd have tons of power with my 225 Watt Triode Mono Blocks. However, having seen JBLs specs regarding recommended amplifier power, especially when biamped, 225 WPC seemed woefully inadequate. I'm (fairly) sure it's plenty for me though.

Conversely, I do have a choice of 3 Crown XTI amps to use for the bottom, rated at 275/500, 475/800, 650/1200 WPC into 8/4 Ohms respectively. These amps have a DSP which permits selection of XOVER frequencies, slopes, pre-mapped curves, EQ, etc., which I would have liked to hear as well. I have heard on this site (and elsewhere) that my M552 JBL external XOVER is really not the way to go. Finding the original cards ($$$) seems prohibitive and difficult these days. Going the "better, aftermarket" XOVER route is not really an option as these speakers initial cost plus shipping(!) was already a substantial hit.

Aftermarket crossovers are cheap. The Behringer DCX 2496 goes for around $300 and sounds great. I have 225 wpc (Nak PA-7) on my similarly drivered but 3 dB less sensitive L300s, and the clipping lights have never even flickered, and sometimes I listen loud. VERY loud. When you are listening at your "low to moderate levels," you are using way under one watt.

Are there high and low inputs on a 4435? The schematic doesn't show them and I can't find a pic of the input terminals.

FWIW, I had my L300's triamped for around a month, and have now gone back to one amp (with subs of course) and am quite happy. I did upgrade the caps in the tweeter circuit to Clarity ESA's, one speaker at a time, and couldn't hear a difference.

Valveglow
03-01-2014, 08:47 AM
Thank you. Actually, I have the JBL M552 Crossover as well as a DBX 234 in another system that is really not needed. The trouble is that most folks I have spoken to say that these type (lower priced, active) XOVERS add a hardness to the sound, which I want to avoid at all costs. I find that I can hear a very slight ground hum type noise when the DBX is in circuit, which might be eliminated with grounding, cheater plugs, etc. Nevertheless, it moves one another step away from the "straight wire with gain" theory.

Regarding the picture of the input terminals, I had it somewhere, but cannot locate it, even searching online. Below is a similar unit, but NOT the one for the 4435s:

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSH6vu9VQPqvbWgfUdjRuGgF048aSrxm H-bVKfi3wgYiIyZeIezRQ

If someone could supply the correct photo, it would be much appreciated.



Aftermarket crossovers are cheap. The Behringer DCX 2496 goes for around $300 and sounds great. I have 225 wpc (Nak PA-7) on my similarly drivered but 3 dB less sensitive L300s, and the clipping lights have never even flickered, and sometimes I listen loud. VERY loud. When you are listening at your "low to moderate levels," you are using way under one watt.

Are there high and low inputs on a 4435? The schematic doesn't show them and I can't find a pic of the input terminals.

FWIW, I had my L300's triamped for around a month, and have now gone back to one amp (with subs of course) and am quite happy. I did upgrade the caps in the tweeter circuit to Clarity ESA's, one speaker at a time, and couldn't hear a difference.

hjames
03-01-2014, 08:49 AM
Thank you. Actually, I have the JBL M552 Crossover as well as a DBX 234 in another system that is really not needed. The trouble is that most folks I have spoken to say that these type (lower priced, active) XOVERS add a hardness to the sound, which I want to avoid at all costs. I find that I can hear a very slight ground hum type noise when the DBX is in circuit, which might be eliminated with grounding, cheater plugs, etc. Nevertheless, it moves one another step away from the "straight wire with gain" theory.

Regarding the picture of the input terminals, I had it somewhere, but cannot locate it, even searching online. Below is a similar unit, but NOT the one for the 4435s:

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSH6vu9VQPqvbWgfUdjRuGgF048aSrxm H-bVKfi3wgYiIyZeIezRQ

Well, THAT image posting didn't do so well ...

Valveglow
03-01-2014, 08:55 AM
Hello hjames! How are you? You always seem to come to the rescue when I am in "JBL trouble", no matter where I am! This image seems bigger, but it is still not the correct 4435 input terminals. SOMEWHERE, I did have the correct photo!

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=26002&stc=1&d=1182674251



Well, THAT image posting didn't do so well ...

Ian Mackenzie
03-01-2014, 09:01 AM
Them are not the original posts.

Is the xover stock?

Valveglow
03-01-2014, 09:12 AM
My crossovers are stock. I had posted the photo since it is SIMILAR to the 4435s configuration, but I do not believe it is from a 4435. My speakers have not arrived yet, so I cannot photograph the actual unit, and I cannot locate the correct photo of the proper unit which I had at one point...



Them are not the original posts.

Is the xover stock?

pyonc
03-01-2014, 09:25 AM
Hello all. Though I have done searches on this topic and consulted members of other forums on this topic, it seems as though my search for info should have begun here. If not, I am inclined to think it my issues will be resolved here. Thank you in advance.

I have purchased a pair of JBL 4435s, though I am not certain which version. I believe they were built in the late 80's, though again, I am not 100% sure of this. Jazz, mostly "Miles Davis-ish" (whatever that means) is what I spend most of my time listening to, though I also enjoy lots of other jazz, fusion, vocals, classic rock and Prog Rock as well. Generally, I listen at low to moderate volumes and rarely crank it up. Having purchased 4435s though, I do not want to forfeit that ability when the mood strikes me!

My concerns involve amplification and crossovers. I would like to use a set of VTL 225 Watt Triode Mono Blocks to power them, though I am also considering a Crown XTI amp (either a model 1000, 2000, or 4000) with plenty of steam to power the woofers. I also own VTL 100 watt mono blocks, so I could also use both sets of the tube amps. The issues are as follows:

Since the Crossover frequency is factory set at a critical 1Khz, I am concerned with the solid state amp possibly diminishing the wonderful presentation that a big tube amp can deliver smack in the middle of the midrange.
Some have said that utilizing the internal crossover is a great idea (though I do not have the internal cards that were available for these speakers) even if I run both amps.
I also have a JBL M552 Crossover, which I have heard would be superior to the internal crossover, though I have also heard the exact opposite!

Would you folks think that one tube amp would be sufficient? What about both sets of tube amps? Tubes on top and solid state (in the lower middle) and bottom? I'm sure that some of you would recommend two solid state amps. Regarding the crossover issue also, I greatly appreciate both individual and collective wisdom on your part. Thank you again!

Maybe I am distracting the issue you've raised here, but let me share my experience on JBL gear, as I love jazz like you.
My gear is 4343, driven by two Crowns in bi-amp mode with Ashly XR1001 crossover. (I used to use M552, but not any more
Just like you, I listen to jazz, especially bop in the 1940s and 50s, among which Miles Davis stands out, of course.
Actually the only reason I've acquired the 4-way 4343 is for jazz listening, the most famous and favorite audio gear in Japan.
As for the critical pre-amp, I rely on the vintage JBL SG520, which is just marvelous for its age!
(the jazz mecca of Japan, "Basie" uses this preamp along with three 4watt JBL SE400s to the effect that even JBL executives who visited there were amazed by the unbelievable live "jazzy" sound comparable to JBL Everest! This is the link in this Forum:
http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...ad.php?t=12206 (http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=12206) )

Bass? Yea, I can feel detailed and sonorous big bass sound, even kick drum sound in the back there, with my current set-up.
After all, it all depends on one's preferences, when it comes to audio gear, and I'm satisfied with mine.

audiomagnate
03-01-2014, 11:10 AM
I believe SE-400s are 40 watt not 4. Thanks for the link, I haven't seen that thread.

Valveglow
03-01-2014, 11:17 AM
Not distracting the issue at all, but adding to the information pool. What did you not like about the M552? Although the big multi way JBLs from the 70s are incredible, I could not afford them. Also, there is something to be said for a 2 way system, provided the drivers are up to the task. I think the midrange with these compression horn / cleavage / cheek things will be great. I certainly hope so. Also, imaging must be fantastic.

The link you provided is amazing; thank you!


Maybe I am distracting the issue you've raised here, but let me share my experience on JBL gear, as I love jazz like you.
My gear is 4343, driven by two Crowns in bi-amp mode with Ashly XR1001 crossover. (I used to use M552, but not any more
Just like you, I listen to jazz, especially bop in the 1940s and 50s, among which Miles Davis stands out, of course.
Actually the only reason I've acquired the 4-way 4343 is for jazz listening, the most famous and favorite audio gear in Japan.
As for the critical pre-amp, I rely on the vintage JBL SG520, which is just marvelous for its age!
(the jazz mecca of Japan, "Basie" uses this preamp along with three 4watt JBL SE400s to the effect that even JBL executives who visited there were amazed by the unbelievable live "jazzy" sound comparable to JBL Everest! This is the link in this Forum:
http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...ad.php?t=12206 (http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=12206) )

Bass? Yea, I can feel detailed and sonorous big bass sound, even kick drum sound in the back there, with my current set-up.
After all, it all depends on one's preferences, when it comes to audio gear, and I'm satisfied with mine.

Valveglow
03-01-2014, 11:18 AM
p.s.: I saw the photo with those L-300s; real, real nice!


I believe SE-400s are 40 watt not 4. Thanks for the link, I haven't seen that thread.

pyonc
03-02-2014, 01:38 PM
I believe SE-400s are 40 watt not 4. Thanks for the link, I haven't seen that thread.

Yes, you're right. It's 40 watts.
From my experience, it's just powerful enough, given the highly efficient SPL
of 4343 drivers.

Valveglow
03-02-2014, 01:50 PM
This gives me hope regarding the 225 WPC Triodes driving the 4435s without requiring help from the Crown.


Yes, you're right. It's 40 watts.
From my experience, it's just powerful enough, given the highly efficient SPL
of 4343 drivers.

pyonc
03-02-2014, 01:52 PM
Not distracting the issue at all, but adding to the information pool. What did you not like about the M552? Although the big multi way JBLs from the 70s are incredible, I could not afford them. Also, there is something to be said for a 2 way system, provided the drivers are up to the task. I think the midrange with these compression horn / cleavage / cheek things will be great. I certainly hope so. Also, imaging must be fantastic.

The link you provided is amazing; thank you!

Well, it sounded more sonorous and detailed to my ears.
Actually I used to use it for a couple of years before switching.
I'm looking to buy Marchand or Bryston 10B someday, though.

Valveglow
03-02-2014, 03:25 PM
Interesting...the plot thickens...



Well, it sounded more sonorous and detailed to my ears.
Actually I used to use it for a couple of years before switching.
I'm looking to buy Marchand or Bryston 10B someday, though.

Robh3606
03-02-2014, 03:55 PM
Hello Valveglow

You could use an M552 with a 4341/43/44/45 with good results because of where 300Hz and the type of crossover used there in the stock units. That said it is not a good choice for the 4430/35 because of the slopes used in the original design. The crossover to use would be a JBL 5235 with 4430/4435 cards or just match the original voltage drives.

I would just use them in passive mode so you get used to them first. They are a different animal compared to the older 4 way monitors.

Rob

Valveglow
03-02-2014, 04:54 PM
Thanks Robh. The trouble is first acquiring a 5235 (tough enough), and then acquiring the cards which I have heard is very difficult.

Also, please pardon the "newbieism", but when you mention "passive mode", are you referring to passive external crossovers (which, truth be known, I don't even understand the distinction from active external crossovers), or are you simply referring to the existing internal crossovers? Thanks again.




Hello Valveglow

You could use an M552 with a 4341/43/44/45 with good results because of where 300Hz and the type of crossover used there in the stock units. That said it is not a good choice for the 4430/35 because of the slopes used in the original design. The crossover to use would be a JBL 5235 with 4430/4435 cards or just match the original voltage drives.

I would just use them in passive mode so you get used to them first. They are a different animal compared to the older 4 way monitors.

Rob

Robh3606
03-02-2014, 05:46 PM
Yes Passive Mode is using the internal crossovers only.

Rob

Valveglow
03-03-2014, 03:05 PM
Thanks for the clarification on passive crossovers, Rob. More intriguing though is your commentary about them being a different animal from the older 4 way monitors. Design wise, they are very different indeed. Nevertheless, if JBL's goal was to create an accurate and powerful studio monitor, I hope they did not stray too great a distance from their giant 70's masterpieces. Could you please elaborate? It would be most appreciated.



Hello Valveglow

You could use an M552 with a 4341/43/44/45 with good results because of where 300Hz and the type of crossover used there in the stock units. That said it is not a good choice for the 4430/35 because of the slopes used in the original design. The crossover to use would be a JBL 5235 with 4430/4435 cards or just match the original voltage drives.

I would just use them in passive mode so you get used to them first. They are a different animal compared to the older 4 way monitors.

Rob


Yes Passive Mode is using the internal crossovers only.

Rob

Robh3606
03-03-2014, 06:41 PM
Design wise, they are very different indeed. Nevertheless, if JBL's goal was to create an accurate and powerful studio monitor, I hope they did not stray too great a distance from their giant 70's masterpieces. Could you please elaborate? It would be most appreciated.

Well look at the most obvious differences. You went from a 4 way to a 2 1/2 with the 4435. There are two significant changes and they are the loss of the 10" driver to cover 300Hz to 1.2k and the 077/2405 up top. With the loss of the ten you can loose definition and snap in that range compared to a 15" woofer. There are many who will not run a 15" woofer up to 1k. On the top end the 2405 is more extended but not by much say 5-7K above just 1" compression driver.

The main advantage of the 4430/35 is the 2344 horn. That's what really defines the sound of these systems. Especially when compared to the older systems. They were the first true constant directivity monitors JBL produced and they had a very long run something like 20 years.

The CD sound field from them is very well controlled by the horn. A result of that is very good imaging and a larger sweet spot. They also don't change as you move around off axis or if you stand or sit compared to the older monitors.

Both types have advantages and followers you have to make up your mind which camp you are in.

Rob:)

Ian Mackenzie
03-04-2014, 01:28 AM
Rob is right and you need to listen and not be swayed by opinion.

Some people like both and own both and others like the L250Ti.

90 % of the result is the set up and this is where you will gain most value from member feedback.

I ran my 2344 biradial horn based system for years on Pass Labs diy Aleph SE 100 watt mono blocks and it was amazing on jazz.

So I expect the VTL amps will go well.


Stuff like James Morrison Live in Paris really shines with these birdials.

Enjoy.

Valveglow
03-04-2014, 05:46 PM
Rob is right and you need to listen and not be swayed by opinion.

Some people like both and own both and others like the L250Ti.

90 % of the result is the set up and this is where you will gain most value from member feedback.

I ran my 2344 biradial horn based system for years on Pass Labs diy Aleph SE 100 watt mono blocks and it was amazing on jazz.

So I expect the VTL amps will go well.


Stuff like James Morrison Live in Paris really shines with these birdials.

Enjoy.


Well look at the most obvious differences. You went from a 4 way to a 2 1/2 with the 4435. There are two significant changes and they are the loss of the 10" driver to cover 300Hz to 1.2k and the 077/2405 up top. With the loss of the ten you can loose definition and snap in that range compared to a 15" woofer. There are many who will not run a 15" woofer up to 1k. On the top end the 2405 is more extended but not by much say 5-7K above just 1" compression driver.

The main advantage of the 4430/35 is the 2344 horn. That's what really defines the sound of these systems. Especially when compared to the older systems. They were the first true constant directivity monitors JBL produced and they had a very long run something like 20 years.

The CD sound field from them is very well controlled by the horn. A result of that is very good imaging and a larger sweet spot. They also don't change as you move around off axis or if you stand or sit compared to the older monitors.

Both types have advantages and followers you have to make up your mind which camp you are in.

Rob:)


Thank you again, folks!

Ian, If the 100 Watt Mono blocks were amazing on Jazz, I am even more confident that the 225 Watt Units will be wonderful. Having said that, perhaps several hundred watts of Crown Solid State would be nice in the woofers also...

When I asked for a comparison, I expected an overwhelming preference for the older multi way designs. I am glad that though the older monitors have advantages, the 4435s wont be absolutely blown away by them. I like the idea of the wide sweet spot and solid imaging. (thanks Rob!) It is interesting that you know some who will not run the woofer to 1Khz. Would the horn be stressed going down to perhaps 700-800Hz? The fellow I purchased these 4435s from had (has?) a friend who worked for JBL, and in fact recommended that he cross them over at 1.2 or 1.3 Khz, the opposite of your comment. While it is hard to imagine a 15" woofer with substantial cone travel remaining neutral and uncolored at 1 Khz, I wonder if it is too difficult for the horn to go down low and that is why he recommended the higher crossover. Any ideas? Thanks again.

ivica
03-05-2014, 01:41 AM
.......

The main advantage of the 4430/35 is the 2344 horn. That's what really defines the sound of these systems. Especially when compared to the older systems. They were the first true constant directivity monitors JBL produced and they had a very long run something like 20 years.

The CD sound field from them is very well controlled by the horn. A result of that is very good imaging and a larger sweet spot. They also don't change as you move around off axis or if you stand or sit compared to the older monitors.
....

Rob:)
Hi Rob,

It would be interesting to compare the directivity of 2344 vs 2312/2308 combo.
I have (personally) an experience that the horns 2312-2307-2311 with 2308 have very wide dispersion, and that "sweep spot" is very wide, especially in the horizontal plane.

Regards
Ivica

Robh3606
03-05-2014, 04:37 AM
The 2344 is the clear winner. The 2308 combo is wide where there is baffle loading, makes and abrupt jump 3-5K then evens out again over a smaller coverage area. The verticle is just awful in comparison. Here are the plots.

Rob:)

Ian Mackenzie
03-05-2014, 05:56 AM
Technically the 2344 horn is slightly compromised at the low end but not enough to loose sleep over for domestic listening.

For PA use you might crossover higher.

Valveglow
03-05-2014, 05:24 PM
Technically the 2344 horn is slightly compromised at the low end but not enough to loose sleep over for domestic listening.

For PA use you might crossover higher.


Thank you Ian. Here's the thing though: while the 2344 might be slightly compromised down low, a 15" woofer has to be somewhat compromised up high. I am wondering if it is ultimately better to lower the crossover point to assist the woofer's upper midrange quality, lower the crossover point to help the horn's lower extremity, or to keep it set at 1 Khz, arguably a controversial point for a crossover. I have heard all three arguments thus far, and yet lack the experience and knowledge to make the best choice. Hence, I am looking for all the recommendations on the subject I can find. Thanks to one and all!

Robh3606
03-05-2014, 05:55 PM
Leave the crossover point where it is. That's the best you are going to get unless you start looking at 3 ways.

Rob:)

Valveglow
03-05-2014, 06:04 PM
Leave the crossover point where it is. That's the best you are going to get unless you start looking at 3 ways.

Rob:)


Actually, that was my inclination. Thank you.

ivica
03-06-2014, 01:28 AM
The 2344 is the clear winner. The 2308 combo is wide where there is baffle loading, makes and abrupt jump 3-5K then evens out again over a smaller coverage area. The verticle is just awful in comparison. Here are the plots.

Rob:)
Ho Rob,

Thank You for the presentation of the 2307/2308 combo vs 2344 horn.
For sure, vertical dispersion of the 2344 is more stable, while any of them are "almost" the same horizontal dispersion.
For the home listening situation, vertical dispersion is of less importance, especially if UHF driver (such as 2405) has been used for the frequency over 8~9kHz.

Regards
Ivica

Ian Mackenzie
03-06-2014, 04:55 AM
Hi Ivicta,

The 2405 seem to be useful for post 10 khertz extension where the old Al diaghragms run out of puff.

The 2344 makes it redundant and be diaghragm would be the next era

Valveglow
03-08-2014, 05:40 AM
Them are not the original posts.

Is the xover stock?


My crossovers are stock. I had posted the photo since it is SIMILAR to the 4435s configuration, but I do not believe it is from a 4435. My speakers have not arrived yet, so I cannot photograph the actual unit, and I cannot locate the correct photo of the proper unit which I had at one point...



Finally! Here is the correct photo for connecting the 4435s:

http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z321/mikeysound5/JBL%204435%20for%20sale%20-%20vienna/DSCF7329.jpg

Ed Zeppeli
03-08-2014, 06:06 AM
The 2344 makes it redundant and be diaghragm would be the next era

Any insights as to who might have one in the works and when it may be available?

Ian Mackenzie
03-08-2014, 08:27 AM
Radian 450BePB