Info on Vintage JBL speakers/tweeters?

[Yardstick]

A long time ago I was given some (already) old JBL speakers and tweeters in boxes. I never knew much about them, except that for such large speakers (12" woofer), they sounded very heavy on the mids and highs. Someone along the way mentioned them being like guitar amp speakers. I eventually packed the JBL components away and used the boxes for other speakers. I have been carting all that stuff around for years! I got curious about the monstrous aluminum tweeters (today, for some reason :dont-know:) and finally did some searching -which led me here, among other places. It turns out I might have some little gems on my hands! I'm pretty sure the tweeters are the JBL 075 bullet tweeters. I'll have to dig them out of deep storage to verify. The 12" woofers have paper cones and aluminum domes. The frames on the speakers are monstrous cast things. I think I still have the x-overs that came with that setup too. I'll get that stuff out and verify model numbers and specs. I couldn't believe some of the prices I saw on e-bay for those tweeters! I'm tempted to stick that stuff back in the boxes and have a listen. I know it's hard without model numbers or pictures, but does anyone have an idea what those speakers might have originally been made for?

[rdgrimes]

Sounds like one of the pro models, although there were gobs of 3rd party boxes also made with JBL components, as well as custom boxes.
You might want to browse the library here and see if they pop up in one of the catalogs.

[Yardstick]

I hadn't noticed the library and catalogs. Thanks for that! I think I found something similar in there. I'll verify later when I'm home.

[Yardstick]

More info: The tweeters are indeed Model 075. The woofers are Model D123. Both say Signature Series on the back with a JBL exclamation point between "Signature" and "Series". James B. Lansing Sound Inc. Los Angeles Calif. ("Cal." on the woofer), U.S.A. Both are 16 Ohm. The crossovers are Calrad CN-2 from Japan. They say 2500 or 3500 C.P.S. The investigation/education begins!

[Yardstick]

Another update for anyone interested. With pictures this time!

Here's one of the 075s.
http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo132/Yardst1ck/Stuff/Old_JBL_Speakers/JBL_075_35203_01.jpg


The front of that one.
http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo132/Yardst1ck/Stuff/Old_JBL_Speakers/JBL_075_35203_02.jpg


The other one is missing its label but there is a number on the back. I can't really read it very well.
http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo132/Yardst1ck/Stuff/Old_JBL_Speakers/JBL_075_XXXXX_01.jpg


The front of that one. How do these things work anyway? They seem like big hunks of solid metal, but I know they make noise!
http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo132/Yardst1ck/Stuff/Old_JBL_Speakers/JBL_075_XXXXX_02.jpg

[Yardstick]

I have two D123s with consecutive serial numbers.
http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo132/Yardst1ck/Stuff/Old_JBL_Speakers/JBL_D123_53662_01.jpg


http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo132/Yardst1ck/Stuff/Old_JBL_Speakers/JBL_D123_53662_02.jpg


http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo132/Yardst1ck/Stuff/Old_JBL_Speakers/JBL_D123_53662_03.jpg


The other one had a dent in the dust cap. I tried to fix it a long time ago.
http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo132/Yardst1ck/Stuff/Old_JBL_Speakers/JBL_D123_53663_01.jpg


http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo132/Yardst1ck/Stuff/Old_JBL_Speakers/JBL_D123_53663_02.jpg


http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo132/Yardst1ck/Stuff/Old_JBL_Speakers/JBL_D123_53663_03.jpg


The crossovers:
http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo132/Yardst1ck/Stuff/Old_JBL_Speakers/Calrad_CN-2_01.jpg


http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo132/Yardst1ck/Stuff/Old_JBL_Speakers/Calrad_CN-2_02.jpg


I also still have the boxes these were mounted in. I'll have to get those down and do some measurements to see if they are like anything from the JBL plans. I'm guessing the system was originally JBL and someone changed the crossovers. I want to try putting them all back together to hear them again.

I guess I didn't stray far from JBL. My living room speakers are JBL ND310s.

[BeDome]

Truly great stuff to have.

IF I was you, I would replace the XOs and give the drivers a try.

Depending upon what kind of music you prefer, they might sound pretty good to you.

Modern rock or Hip Hop as your preference, not so much without a subwoofer, but old jazz or some classical, probably so!

You might be surprised.



OH and I would not worry much about the little ding in the dust cap.

[Yardstick]

Got any recommendations on XO's? I could probably wire up my own from the schematic of the old 2400 that would have gone with these. Or is there something else I should look for?

[audiomagnate]

Got any recommendations on XO's? I could probably wire up my own from the schematic of the old 2400 that would have gone with these. Or is there something else I should look for?
An original JBL crossover will add re-sale value. If that's not a concern you can easily build a copy, or even something better. How about a picture of your cabinets? I really like the idea of using modern, high quality subs with speakers of this vintage; it takes them to a whole new level.

[Yardstick]

An original JBL crossover will add re-sale value. If that's not a concern you can easily build a copy, or even something better. How about a picture of your cabinets? I really like the idea of using modern, high quality subs with speakers of this vintage; it takes them to a whole new level.

I'm not sure what I'll do with these speakers yet. I don't really have room for them but I'd like to at least get them together and hear them again. Maybe they will be worth making some space somewhere. I looked around for the real deal N2400s but the ones that are available seem pricey. What would be a better alternative? I'll get the cabinets down this week sometime and get some pictures loaded.

Something else I'd like to add... I vaguely remember the speaker cover cloth being a light tan color and almost straw-like. Where could I find something like that? Or should I bother with covers at all? For me, I'd like the look but I'd want to make them removable. For resale, if I decide to do it, would it add any value?

[BeDome]

I'm not sure what I'll do with these speakers yet. I don't really have room for them but I'd like to at least get them together and hear them again. Maybe they will be worth making some space somewhere. I looked around for the real deal N2400s but the ones that are available seem pricey. What would be a better alternative? I'll get the cabinets down this week sometime and get some pictures loaded.

Something else I'd like to add... I vaguely remember the speaker cover cloth being a light tan color and almost straw-like. Where could I find something like that? Or should I bother with covers at all? For me, I'd like the look but I'd want to make them removable. For resale, if I decide to do it, would it add any value?

Just use them. (Make room for them)

As already stated, you will want to include some "fast" (Not really sure what that means, but fast bass means JBL to me) subwoofers. I honestly think that fast means extremely accurate to most, but I would add the ability to time align the sub at the freqs where they meet the uppers. This makes a difference you can feel.

Cloning some established JBL crossovers is a great place to start.

As far as grilles, I would not expect that spending time and money making outstanding grilles will help with re-sale value. Many who own similar speakers do not use grilles, except for when they turn off the systems, to protect, mainly. I would leave grille making to the owner or to an interior designer type.

[Yardstick]

For now I'm definitely thinking of keeping the speakers. I'm just not sure what to do with them. I already have big speakers in my living room (JBL ND310). I don't want to put the old ones in the garage. I might be able to make room for them in my office. We'll see. First I want to get everything back together and making sound!

Here are some shots of one box (the other is almost identical).

http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo132/Yardst1ck/Stuff/Old_JBL_Speakers/JBL_Box1.jpg


This is the original front panel. It used to have blind nuts to attach the D123.
http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo132/Yardst1ck/Stuff/Old_JBL_Speakers/JBL_Box2.jpg


Seems like a C35 cabinet or at least a copy of one.
http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo132/Yardst1ck/Stuff/Old_JBL_Speakers/JBL_Box3.jpg


And look at that! I have a crossover! I don't know anything about it... But it's there! :blink:
http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo132/Yardst1ck/Stuff/Old_JBL_Speakers/JBL_Box4.jpg


From 1979, apparently! The plot thickens!
http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo132/Yardst1ck/Stuff/Old_JBL_Speakers/JBL_Box5.jpg


Lock-mitre joint.
http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo132/Yardst1ck/Stuff/Old_JBL_Speakers/JBL_Box6.jpg

[Ed Zeppeli]

but I would add the ability to time align the sub at the freqs where they meet the uppers. This makes a difference you can feel.




Not to jack this thread but what do you mean by this exactly?

Thanks

[Yardstick]

Not to jack this thread but what do you mean by this exactly?

Thanks


My understanding is that with separate subwoofers you can end up with a time delay because of signal path (extra wiring/amp or even wireless) or distance to the listener. Some AV receivers (maybe integrated amps too?) have a function to realign the timing of the speakers/sub.

[Yardstick]

Just wanted to pop this back up to the top with some new info and a request for help.

I can't seem to find anything that tells me what cabinet I have. It could be buried in the catalogs, but I don't have a clear enough idea of the year to look at, so I'd be searching from the beginning. It's about 2.1 cf. Externally it measures 23-3/4"x15-3/4"x11-3/4". The front port has no duct. It doesn't look like it ever had a duct. The port measures 8-1/4"x3-3/16". The corners are all lock miter'd so it looks like it could very well be a JBL enclosure. But which one? Does anyone recognize it? From the plans it seems like it is on the small side. It's almost like a big bookshelf speaker compared to some of their cabinets.

I never did try these speakers with either of the old crossovers. Once I saw how different they were from the N2400 I figured it wasn't worth listening to them that way. I recently ordered parts to do an N2400 copy, like this one (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?12938-The-N2400-Revealed). Just now I realized that the N2400 is apparently an 8 Ohm crossover and I should be building an N2600 (http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Network%20Schematics/N2600.pdf), which is apparently for the 16 Ohm labeled speakers (that really measure 8 Ohms... :blink:). Of course both crossovers are both really 8 Ohm, if I'm understanding things correctly. Fortunately I ordered 3uF capacitors to run in parallel, so I should be able to try both circuits, or close anyway. What am I seeing in the N2600 Crossover (http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Network%20Schematics/N2600.pdf) that looks like it is labeled S1 and S2? Is that a switch or connection point? Should I bother trying the N2600 at all?

[BMWCCA]

I've never seen a C35 that was cut for a 12-inch driver. Every one I've seen, or have, was designed for a 15-inch and you ordered adapter plates to fit anything smaller. I'd guess at home-built but I'd like to see better pictures of the back in-place to be sure. Regardless, it looks nice and solid.

[Yardstick]

What would the back tell you? I'm not sure it is original because there is no place for a crossover like the N2400 or N2600. I modified it probably 20 years ago to accept some spring clip terminals too.

[BMWCCA]

What would the back tell you? It's easy to compare the quality and technique of construction by looking at the fitting of the rear panels. JBL made the cabinets both in plywood and particle-board but the style and fit of the rear panel for me has always been the easiest way to tell a home-built.

Doesn't really matter in your case since it's pretty obvious it's not a JBL cabinet.

[Yardstick]

How can you tell it's not a JBL cabinet? I thought the lock mitre joint suggested it might be, but I know that's not an exclusive construction technique. The front and back are MDF.

[BMWCCA]

How can you tell it's not a JBL cabinet? I thought the lock mitre joint suggested it might be, but I know that's not an exclusive construction technique. The front and back are MDF.

Most baffles in that era are not MDF. I say it isn't a JBL because they just didn't make one that size that I'm aware of. :dont-know:

[Yardstick]

These do seem small compared to a lot of the cabinets that would have had drivers with 16 Ohm labels. I calculate about 2 cubic feet, which is too small according to the 1960's enclosure manual. Maybe those Calrad crossovers were part of a kit. The other crossovers don't have much for indicating marks other than the year. The three coils and all the wires coming out of them suggest they are a 3-way design. Were there other brand name speakers using JBL drivers in that era? Any other way of tracing a kit? I might pull all the fiberglass and see if there are any other markings underneath. It would probably be better to have a synthetic or cotton batting in there anyway.

My current strategy is going to be:

1. Make an N2400 Crossover copy (parts incoming).
2. Modify the existing baffle with a 5" duct on the existing port (also closing the port down slightly).
3. Mount the drivers and hear them play!

If I like what I hear and I want to hear more, I'll modify the crossover as needed and maybe make new, larger volume enclosures.

[audiomagnate]

These do seem small compared to a lot of the cabinets that would have had drivers with 16 Ohm labels. I calculate about 2 cubic feet, which is too small according to the 1960's enclosure manual. Maybe those Calrad crossovers were part of a kit. The other crossovers don't have much for indicating marks other than the year. The three coils and all the wires coming out of them suggest they are a 3-way design. Were there other brand name speakers using JBL drivers in that era? Any other way of tracing a kit? I might pull all the fiberglass and see if there are any other markings underneath. It would probably be better to have a synthetic or cotton batting in there anyway.

My current strategy is going to be:

1. Make an N2400 Crossover copy (parts incoming).
2. Modify the existing baffle with a 5" duct on the existing port (also closing the port down slightly).
3. Mount the drivers and hear them play!

If I like what I hear and I want to hear more, I'll modify the crossover as needed and maybe make new, larger volume enclosures.

There were all sorts of companies making generic cabinets and crossovers back then. This isn't a "kit" it just the way people put together speaker systems back then, usually from a catalog. It looks like someone back in the 70's upgraded the crossover, which is a good thing. Just because a crossover has three coils doesn't mean it's a three way. If you trace out what's going on in the crossover I could tell you what you have. It looks like high quality stuff. I've also never heard of or seen a stock JBL cabinet with a 12 inch opening. You have a nice little vintage two way system, why not just enjoy it? There's only so far you can take that driver set.

[Yardstick]

There were all sorts of companies making generic cabinets and crossovers back then. This isn't a "kit" it just the way people put together speaker systems back then, usually from a catalog. It looks like someone back in the 70's upgraded the crossover, which is a good thing. Just because a crossover has three coils doesn't mean it's a three way. If you trace out what's going on in the crossover I could tell you what you have. It looks like high quality stuff. I've also never heard of or seen a stock JBL cabinet with a 12 inch opening. You have a nice little vintage two way system, why not just enjoy it? There's only so far you can take that driver set.

That makes sense. I wish I knew more about these speakers or had a resource like this when I got them. I ran across a 2-way crossover with three coils a few hours after I posted. I'd almost have to disassemble that crossover to figure it out. I could trace the circuit, but I can't see what the capacitor values are. That also makes it tough to figure out how they should be hooked up. Both crossovers are old and a significant departure from the N2400. I think I bought better parts for my N2400 copy too (based on this thread (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?12938-The-N2400-Revealed)). Now that I have the parts I can build the crossover I need. If all goes well I may just refresh the front and rear panels, make grilles and clean up the cabinets the best I can. Since the cabinets are pretty beat up and they are a little too small, I might take it a step further and build new cabinets with increased volume. One step at a time. :D