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View Full Version : Faked-up early Altec Lansing 604 Duplex drivers in 612 cabinets? P U!



Steve Schell
10-25-2013, 11:11 PM
The rather silly and disingenuous practice of "relicing" new guitars to resemble old ones has become common ever since old Fenders, Gibsons, etc. became much more valuable than new ones. This sort of forgery has been quite rare in vintage audio until recently, limited mostly to faking old JBL bubbleback 375 compression drivers and 150-4C woofers using more modern parts. Now that more humdrum vintage pieces are starting to fetch big money the forgers are moving further into the market.

I would invite you to check out this current ebay auction:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/151139589477

This purports to be a pair of very early Altec 604s with black and white labels in period 612 utility cabinets, but I smell a very large rat. What follows is all just my opinion you understand, but based on fifteen plus years of studying this old gear obsessively.

The first 100 or so of the Altec 604 Duplex drivers, released in late 1944 or early 1945, used the black and white decal of the early 1940s Altec products. Here is a photo of a decal of what I believe to be a genuine early 604:

604#73-3.jpg

I hope the link works, though I'm lousy at computer stuff. A friend of mine owns three authentic pre-100 serial number 604s, so he and I have some idea of what is correct. I believe the auction pair of 604s to be run of the mill later 604s or 604Bs which the seller has attempted to present as ultra-rare early serial number specimens with faked black and white labels and cabinet badges. As far as we know, only the first 100 or so 604s used the black and white decal before the red, white and blue decals replaced them. These serial numbers of 170 and 182 conflict with our understanding. Note that the original label says "IMPED" for impedance, while the auction labels say "MPED"... Dohhh! Also the original decal has a black outer border, while the auction pair has a ragged white border.

The cabinets look like early 612 specimens that have been through WWII and Katrina. They may be old ones, or made last week, I dunno. The oxblood color "Lansing Sound Systems" labels were used on a few of the last Lansing Iconics built in 1941 or 1942, but are completely wrong for a 1944 or 1945 604-based system. I believe these badges to be new reproductions, carefully aged to appear beat up and seventy years old. Likewise the brass labels on the rear of the cabinets, which appear to be photographically derived from early Altec black and white decals, scream TILT! Never have I seen an old system with such a badge, nor any brass badge at all with an "Altec Lansing" ID. It seems that one of the first efforts of the new Altec Lansing Corp. was to reduce costs by replacing the beautiful Lansing brass, nickel plated and paint-filled badges with cheap decals.

Normally I wouldn't get bent out of shape about this stuff, but this seller IMO is attempting to hoodwink some unknowing (likely overseas) buyer into forking over FIFTEEN BIG ONES for a pair of moldy old 604s in utility cabinets. Also, the founders of this site have been attempting to accurately portray the history of Jim Lansing's contributions to the art with this site since the year 2000, and such phony, never-existed abortions like this just muddle the historical record for future interested parties.

Steve Schell
10-25-2013, 11:23 PM
Damn it, I've tried everything and I cannot get the saved image of an old 604 badge from my backup CD to post. Any ideas?

Steve Schell
10-25-2013, 11:36 PM
vvvv

Steve Schell
10-25-2013, 11:37 PM
Jeez, the image finally appeared, I think. Screw computers!

The speaker stands in the auction are just plain silly. Nothing like this existed in the old days, Lansing badge or not. Buyer beware!

If anyone here has the skills, please add the pictures from the auction to this thread for historical purposes.

Odd
10-26-2013, 12:48 AM
.
6044360444

Odd
10-26-2013, 01:46 AM
.6044660447

Odd
10-26-2013, 01:48 AM
.
60448

fpitas
10-26-2013, 06:11 AM
They also appear to be the ones posted in a Lansing Product Marketplace thread here.

hjames
10-26-2013, 06:15 AM
They also appear to be the ones posted in a Lansing Product Marketplace thread here.

Yep - all the pix there are hosted externally and will go away when the seller decides.
Amazing - all those pix are just pasted together into one huge tall Image! - 900px × 18604px! - 9 Meg worth
http://www.lajazz.us/audio/YK/LANSING/LANSING_604/Mix.jpg (http://www.lajazz.us/audio/YK/LANSING/LANSING_604/Mix.jpg)

That tall image is too large to load here so I cut it into thirds in Photoshop ...

60449

60450

60451

Steve Schell
10-26-2013, 09:59 AM
Thanks very much y'all for adding the pictures.

fpitas
10-26-2013, 11:12 AM
Thanks very much y'all for adding the pictures.

Thanks for taking the time to point out the problems with these speakers. We all appreciate your knowledge.

Earl K
10-26-2013, 11:39 AM
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script56
10-26-2013, 02:50 PM
You should see the fake western electric altec 755.
http://www.westernlabo.com/cgi-bin/s_shop_index.cgi

hjames
10-26-2013, 04:11 PM
You should see the fake western electric altec 755.
http://www.westernlabo.com/cgi-bin/s_shop_index.cgi

Its a foreign site - be careful folks!

JeffW
10-26-2013, 04:57 PM
Would they sound better than the S4700? I'd throw in a hundred unrelated photos of unrelated gear, but I'm tired. ;)

Allanvh5150
10-26-2013, 05:00 PM
Japanese...

Steve Schell
10-27-2013, 10:38 PM
EarlK, thanks much for the interesting info. The building at that address is fascinating; Google "American Cement Building." The linked video on Vimeo is just dynamite. Script56, thank you for the Western Labo link. I have been to their pages several times as they do some of the more interesting audio work in Japan. I think that reproducing old designs is great as long as the pieces are identified as such. Honoring is one thing; attempting to fool a buyer is another. Never had a problem with the site, but thank you Heather for your concern.

I receive emails from Stewart MacDonald, supplier of guitar tools and parts. They produce a series of neat videos on repair techniques. The link to this exceptionally good one arrived the other day, and shows how easily new wood can be made to look like old and vice versa. Not saying that the auction cabinets are not old ones, but it makes one wonder...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tViTWUL8Was

Altec Best
10-29-2013, 09:54 PM
Agreed ! Hoodwinker's.. :banghead:

Lee in Montreal
10-30-2013, 04:40 AM
Not saying that the auction cabinets are not old ones, but it makes one wonder...

I personally find the cabinets in the auction just too perfectly old lookin'. They look like props for a TV commercial. And strangely, they perfectly match the bases that we know are not "period". So, if the brand new base can be made to look perfectly old, then I suspect the same happened to the cabinets. The industry of greed and fake is booming... :D

Steve Schell
10-30-2013, 11:34 PM
Lee I agree, supplying inauthentic stands with similar aging and faked logos as the cabinets being passed off as original was not a smooth move. One with such talents needs to clarify his life's path between being a disingenuous forger or a respected restorer/duplicator. There is plenty of room in the world for the latter.

My knowledgeable friend has pointed out another Dohhhhh!!... "Frame to magnet screws should be Allen head, not slot fillister."

script56
11-03-2013, 06:09 PM
Isnt ebay supposed to cancel auctions that are selling fake items?