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krisonic
09-05-2013, 06:34 AM
Hi all,

I have a pair of JBL 4311B speakers that I am attempting to restore.
I know about the factory JBL recone kits, but those are expensive! But I would not want to get anything that would be inferior to the real deal.
Do any of you have any experience with these (http://www.ebay.com/itm/JBL-2213H-JBL-4311B-JBL-2212-JBL-4312-TWO-RECONE-KIT-FOR-C8R2213H-/161096798317?pt=US_Pro_Audio_Speakers_Monitors&hash=item25821e106d)?

If not, can you tell anything from the pics or description as to how accurate these will be?

Best Regards,
Kristian

Don C
09-05-2013, 07:19 AM
The cones appear to be straight instead of curved.

krisonic
09-05-2013, 09:40 AM
Hm, it appears so.
Strange, because when I looked at these recone kits earlier, they were sold one each, and those were pictured as bell-shaped.
It appears that I can get original recone kits here in Europe for about $150. Doesn't seem too bad.

Maxwelhse
09-05-2013, 06:14 PM
Generally speaking, as I am not familiar with your exact application, I would be shocked if any aftermarket cone kit features a true edge wound voice coil... That technology is 1/2 the reason the JBL drivers are so coveted the world over. I believe I once heard that edge wound coils resulted in a 23% increase in surface area and thus a big efficiency increase.

I had this debate, with myself, with my 2241-Hs... Today they're sporting real JBL kits...

jbl
09-06-2013, 07:28 AM
Can't beat the real thing.:cheers:

speakerdave
09-06-2013, 10:51 AM
As long as the JBL kit is available, it's the only sensible option. Otherwise, what are we doing here?

krisonic
09-06-2013, 02:40 PM
Ok guys, you have convinced me. Genuine JBL it is then!

Thank you very much for your insight, it is most appreciated.

Regards,
Kristian

Maxwelhse
09-09-2013, 05:21 PM
Ok guys, you have convinced me. Genuine JBL it is then!

Thank you very much for your insight, it is most appreciated.

Regards,
Kristian

Good call...

I've got more money in cone kits in my L80Ts, L100Ts, 240Tis, and SR4719A than I paid for the entire systems (each), that's not including the cost of installation.

I've been disappointed with those decisions 0 times and the money doesn't hurt once they're powered up!

They play... They sound right... and they will play HARD for as long as you want with proper power applied. You can't beat good honest JBLs!:applaud:

jbl
09-09-2013, 06:11 PM
Good call...

I've got more money in cone kits in my L80Ts, L100Ts, 240Tis, and SR4719A than I paid for the entire systems (each), that's not including the cost of installation.

I've been disappointed with those decisions 0 times and the money doesn't hurt once they're powered up!

They play... They sound right... and they will play HARD for as long as you want with proper power applied. You can't beat good honest JBLs!:applaud:

What caused all those cone failures?

Maxwelhse
09-09-2013, 06:27 PM
What caused all those cone failures?

Not a dang thing on the outside (well... I bought the 2241Hs as empty baskets for the SR4719A... That entire system was assembled on a shoe string budget over a couple of years of Ebaying... The cab came from this very forum)... Right-or-wrong, when I buy a 20 year old used speaker with failing foam I have it re-coned... I have no idea what its voice coil's life was like before I owned it. After the initial re-cone, I plan to re-foam in the future (also bearing in mind that JBL doesn't sell "re-foam" kits...).

Beyond that, again right-or-wrong, my JBL man lathe turns the baskets (in a giant LeBlonde lathe with an even more giant fixture) before re-coning to make sure all of the basket surfaces are parallel before installing the new kits. He claims he's seen as much as 0.060" out of plane (maybe a big deal, maybe not? His labor is $25 a driver.. Hard to beat!). The oldest re-coned pair he has done for my family are Dad's L300s and that was in 1994... They're still playing great today! The oldest pair he has done for me personally are my L100Ts in 2003, again, no complaints (and they have seen A LOT of abuse... I was 19 when I bought them)....

So... necessary? Probably not... Do I care? Nope... I'm not looking to cash out of any of my speakers so the cost of the re-cone vs. re-surround is kinda unimportant to me. I also have all of my grills recovered in pure black, need-it-or-not (and the 240Tis look SOOO much better with black cloth... the LXXT series speakers always seem to have washed out "grayish" grills when I get them... They're jet black now!!!)

I understand my positions aren't shared by everyone, and that's OK with me. :) The bigger point I was making is that I have only ever purchased authentic JBL parts for my JBL speakers (save for the grill cloth... That's a personal taste... and the switches in the 240Ti crossovers) and I have never been disappointed!

jbl
09-09-2013, 06:37 PM
Not a dang thing on the outside (well... I bought the 2241Hs as empty baskets for the SR4719A... That entire system was assembled on a shoe string budget over a couple of years of Ebaying... The cab came from this very forum)... Right-or-wrong, when I buy a 20 year old used speaker with failing foam I have it re-coned... I have no idea what its voice coil's life was like before I owned it. After the initial re-cone, I plan to re-foam in the future (also bearing in mind that JBL doesn't sell "re-foam" kits...).

Beyond that, again right-or-wrong, my JBL man lathe turns the baskets (in a giant LeBlonde lathe with an even more giant fixture) before re-coning to make sure all of the basket surfaces are parallel before installing the new kits. He claims he's seen as much as 0.060" out of plane (maybe a big deal, maybe not? His labor is $25 a driver.. Hard to beat!). The oldest re-coned pair he has done for my family are Dad's L300s and that was in 1994... They're still playing great today! The oldest pair he has done for me personally are my L100Ts in 2000, again, no complaints (and they have seen A LOT of abuse... I was 19 when I bought them)....

So... necessary? Probably not... Do I care? Nope... I'm not looking to cash out of any of my speakers so the cost of the re-cone vs. re-surround is kinda unimportant to me. I also have all of my grills recovered in pure black, need-it-or-not (and the 240Tis look SOOO much better with black cloth).

I understand my positions aren't shared by everyone, and that's OK with me. :)
I agree with you 100%. I would have done exactly as you did under those circumstances. The smallest compromise repairing the driver, compromises the whole driver. The only exception is refoaming my JBL drivers since JBL doesn't support refoams. In my case, I bought the 2225H & 2235H woofers new, so I know the history. I will be refoaming the 2235s when needed.

Maxwelhse
09-09-2013, 07:32 PM
I agree with you 100%. I would have done exactly as you did under those circumstances. The smallest compromise repairing the driver, compromises the whole driver. The only exception is refoaming my JBL drivers since JBL doesn't support refoams. In my case, I bought the 2225H & 2235H woofers new, so I know the history. I will be refoaming the 2235s when needed.

It's good to find a like mind! If I wanted Pyle performance from my drivers I would have saved a bundle and just bought Pyle drivers!

ALL of my JBLs (save for 1 S-Center) came from the used market and were plenty "senior" when I acquired them... I wasn't even a teenager when my L100Ts were manufactured and I was a few months old when Dad bought his L300s... I'm not comfortable rolling the dice on their history when they come into my manacle hands! I want to be the first abuser! :)

Dad is the original owner of his L300s (I think his original sales brochure, that he got for free, is worth about $20 on Ebay), but given his joy of them and their open market value, re-foaming seemed a bit below them. Plus, right-or-wrong, our JBL man, who was the original seller of Dad's L300s, doesn't believe that proper geometry can be recreated through a re-foam job (I beg to differ... but whatever)... So, there wasn't a debate.

So... That's it... The L300s, and 1 unworthy S-Center, are the only only JBLs my family has ever bought new. :) I did gift a set of L80Ts to the inlaws that I'm positive had re-foams (but a very nice job)... They play just great too and they're over the moon to have them (bought 'em for $50, playing... HARD to give them away!!!!)

Kenneth
12-06-2013, 08:38 AM
Im selling pairs of recone kits on Ebay, type ... JBL Recone Kit in the Search Engine of Ebay......You will find it.

608366083760838

Thanks!!!!

ratitifb
12-06-2013, 09:06 AM
Jbl 2213h, jbl 4311b, jbl 2212, jbl 4312 two recone kit for ( c8r2213h )

Im selling pairs of recone kits on Ebay, type ... JBL Recone Kit in the Search Engine of Ebay......You will find it.

608366083760838

Thanks!!!!compared to the others the 2212 isn't the same animal due to specific spider dimensions ;)

Kenneth
12-06-2013, 09:51 AM
Yes, Jbl 2212 spider is approx. 1 inch smaller than the others......I just to erase this from the Ebay post.:)

Maxwelhse
12-07-2013, 04:33 AM
Since the original thread was about the debate between OEM JBL kits vs aftermarket kits, I'll again state that if you want a JBL driver, then you need to buy JBL kits. The OP agreed with that position so I'm not sure what you're doing here with your kits...

...seems like your response may be more appropriate in the for sale section... I'm sure there is a market for your product, but this thread dismisses the entire idea of what you're trying to sell.

krisonic
09-18-2015, 04:29 AM
Hi guys,
I went for the genuine JBL recone kit for my damaged speaker. The result was very good and I have been completely happy with the decision.
Since then I have moved on to JBL L112 as my main speakers, the 4311B's are stored in a closet for now.

My reason for going back to this thread is that my 4311B's have always seemed a bit unbalanced left to right. At first I thought it was a natural result of one being closer to a corner than the other, but this imbalance has persisted with changed positioning and moving houses. I removed the woofers and measured the DC resistance. This is going from memory now, but I think the reconed one measured about 4.5 ohms and the other one about 3.5 ohms. The lower measured one is the weakest sounding.

I e-mailed the dealer that provided the recone kit I used earlier, but it seems the kits are completely obsolete from JBL at this point.

Too bad, because the reconed one works perfectly and looks stunning, but the other one is a bit faded and with a grayish dust cap. Would have liked to recone it to have balance between the speakers, but it seems this is a no-go unless I stumble upon a NOS recone kit. And they are expensive when they occasionally turn up.

What could be the reason for the weakness in the lower measured woofer? Could it be that some of the windings in the voice coil are shorted, but not all? Would this make it sound weaker?
Any suggestions as to how this can be remedied? Or will I just have to bite the bullet and get another old 2213h woofer which may or may not be equal to the good one that I have?

Any input is greatly appreciated.

-krisonic

Ed Zeppeli
09-18-2015, 06:03 AM
You would think that the one with the lower resistance would be louder.

I couldn't tell you if the difference in DC resistance would account for a significant difference in volume but I think further investigation may be necessary. Have you checked the other drivers? Also, those tone adjustment pots tend to oxidize over time, adding resistance to the circuit. You may want to check into them as a possible culprit.

Perhaps you could swap woofers and see if the problem follows the older one.

Good luck,

Warren

krisonic
09-18-2015, 06:41 AM
I replaced the l-pads and rebuilt the original crossovers with new capacitors while restoring these speakers, so I do not think the l-pads should be the culprits here. I will see if I can try the woofer swap as you said, to see if the problem follows the driver or not.
A bit of a hassle though, but probably worth a try.

ivica
09-19-2015, 09:41 AM
I replaced the l-pads and rebuilt the original crossovers with new capacitors while restoring these speakers, so I do not think the l-pads should be the culprits here. I will see if I can try the woofer swap as you said, to see if the problem follows the driver or not.
A bit of a hassle though, but probably worth a try.

Hi krisonic,

If the drivers are AlNiCo, then it is possible that have to be re-magnetized, to reach nominal magnetic flux in the gap. If they are Ferrous, then may be the BL factor is not OK (shorter VC length in the gap).

regrads
ivica

krisonic
09-20-2015, 11:54 PM
Hi ivica,

The drivers are of the ferrous type, so demagnetization should not be an issue with them.
Do you mean that the voice coil might need to be reseated or that it might have the wrong length? I think the cone is original, so the voice coil should be equal to the one in the genuine JBL recone kit I used for the other driver.

Regards,
krisonic

ivica
09-21-2015, 12:34 AM
Hi ivica,

The drivers are of the ferrous type, so demagnetization should not be an issue with them.
Do you mean that the voice coil might need to be reseated or that it might have the wrong length? I think the cone is original, so the voice coil should be equal to the one in the genuine JBL recone kit I used for the other driver.

Regards,
krisonic

Hi krisonic,

As BL means= B x L, so if B is correct, the L (length of the wire in the gap) has to to be correct, but the problem is that JBL have not user round wire but rectangular cross-section wire, so using ordinary round wire would not give expected results.
It has to be aware that L=D*pi*N, where D is VC diameter, and N is the number of wounds IN-THE-GAP, not total number of wire-wounds on the VC,
the VC has to be the same as JBL used.

regards
ivica

krisonic
09-23-2015, 01:34 AM
It appears to me that the L variable in the BL parameter would not be possible to check visually, at least not without removing the speaker cone (which I am not keen on doing, as genuine replacement cones are now obsolete).
I can see that it is possible to get replacement accordion surrounds from Simply Speakers (I believe it was), but the spider would also need to be removed to inspect the voice coil or re-seat it in the gap. Also, I think it would be difficult (if not impossible) to remove the accordion surround and the spider without damaging the cone.

If the simple woofer swap between the two speakers does indeed show that the failure is woofer-related (which I suspect), then a used replacement woofer might be my best bet. A bit of a gamble though, I would not know for sure if the performance would match my remaining woofer 100%.

krisonic
10-09-2015, 06:30 AM
Actually it seems that SpeakerExchange have these original recone kits still available.
If I am able to scrape together some cash, I might just order one.

NickH
10-09-2015, 01:19 PM
McKenzie also has kits with jbl cones and spiders. The voice coils are not OEM but I've compared them to OEM and there damn near the same. I went as far as measuring the width of the edge wound coil wire with calipers. Its all the same metrologically.

Nick

krisonic
10-12-2015, 01:28 AM
The price at MacKenzie recone kits is only 43% of that of the OEM one, good call. Only that it does not have the original white aquaplas coating. That is a bummer for sure.