2245H in folded corner horn enclosure?

[Stevedel]

Greetings folks. I have long been a fan of folded corner horn ( Hartsfield, Klipschorn ) designs. Tooling around the Internet, I found information on the Electro-voice Patrician IV. It is described as a Klipschorn scaled up 16-2/3%. Anyone have any thoughts on using an 18" 2245H in one of these designs? I have the components to build a 4345, but a scaled up Klipschorn might be worth the effort. Any thoughts? I am just waiting on acquiring a router big enough to handle a Freud lock-miter router bit. Thanks, Stevedel.

[more10]

2240 have better paramters than 2245 for horn loading. I have no experience on the Patrician, but I found the DIY manual (https://www.google.se/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CC8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Felectrovoice.com%2Fdownloadfile.p hp%3Ff%3DPatrician%2520IV%2520DIY%2520Manual.pdf&ei=_RwOUoq-MsXl4QSW0oGIDw&usg=AFQjCNG-gMXMtUWyjU2QKeHvs0pQt_ku9A&bvm=bv.50768961,d.bGE). I says the horn should be used with EV 18WK, however there are no TS parameters for this driver.

[Lee in Montreal]

I agree that for a folded horn, the 2240 will work better as its sweet spot will better match a horn than the 2245's

Also, be carefull with "scaled down horns" as that there's no such a think as "scaled down wavelength". All you will achieve is raising you Fs and most likley screwing everything up. When it comes to horn, there's no way around size. Bigger works better.

Lee

[Stevedel]

The resonant frequency for the EV 18wk is listed as 22-24Hz. (EV catalog 119) The JBL 2240 fs is 30 Hz and the 2245H is 20Hz. If the resonant frequency has anything to do with horn loading, it would seem to be ok on the surface. I have read the Klipsch Papers but have no idea of the math used. Besides, I have 2 2245H's, no 2240's. The 2245's use a foam surround, if that means anything. The 2245H also has a flatter response than the 2240, which may be a good reason not to use it. (Too much bottom emphasis. I want accurate reproduction, not just more low bass.) I would love to hear more opinions. Thanks guys.

[more10]

Also, be carefull with "scaled down horns"
Lee

Lee the Patrician is a "scaled up" Klipshorn.

[moray james]

Greetings folks. I have long been a fan of folded corner horn ( Hartsfield, Klipschorn ) designs. Tooling around the Internet, I found information on the Electro-voice Patrician IV. It is described as a Klipschorn scaled up 16-2/3%. Anyone have any thoughts on using an 18" 2245H in one of these designs? I have the components to build a 4345, but a scaled up Klipschorn might be worth the effort. Any thoughts? I am just waiting on acquiring a router big enough to handle a Freud lock-miter router bit. Thanks, Stevedel.

I am pretty sure that speakerfritz at the Klipschs forum built a set of khorns with an 18 inch woofer you can find contact info here http://community.klipsch.com/members/speakerfritz.aspx Hope this is od assistance. Best regards Moray James.

[Mr. Widget]

The 2245 was not designed with horn loading in mind. I doubt that Fs is as important as other parameters, but I am absolutely not a horn expert.

I would be careful with the Patrician. As a vintage design they may have made compromises that we would rather avoid today. At a minimum I doubt the panels are rigid enough for optimum performance. Also the throat may need to be tweaked for whichever driver you ultimately go with.


Widget

[timc]

Fs is only really important for the upper frequency of the horn. you will come close with the formula 2Fs/Qes.

[frank23]

About 20 years ago a friend of mine had one scaled up Klipschorn using the JBL 2245. We were students then without money for decent amps etc, but I remember the sound was incredible. This was also because it was in a quite small student room of about 18m2... For parties it was moved to the group kitchen / living room. It could play incredibly loud and sounded very, very clean with a "body impacting" low end. It was part of an actively crossovered 4-way system with a 12" bas-mid, a 7" audax (I think) mid and 2404 tweeters.

But it was an hilarious thing. You could just about walk into the horn openings. When he moved to another place he built a too small bass-reflex housing for the 2245 and the system never sounded as good again. I have never seen the Klipschorn being rebuilt, it remains a memory.

[JUNGLECATGEORGE]

Greetings folks. I have long been a fan of folded corner horn ( Hartsfield, Klipschorn ) designs. Tooling around the Internet, I found information on the Electro-voice Patrician IV. It is described as a Klipschorn scaled up 16-2/3%. Anyone have any thoughts on using an 18" 2245H in one of these designs? I have the components to build a 4345, but a scaled up Klipschorn might be worth the effort. Any thoughts? I am just waiting on acquiring a router big enough to handle a Freud lock-miter router bit. Thanks, Stevedel.

building k horns is a lot of work..good luck if you are up for it.i think a 2245 will work good. i decided to do hartsfiels,being a jbl fan..don,t kid yourself the hartsfield is also very big and heavy. if you build k horns keep in mind they like the corners of the room and moving them is a chore. i would not be afraid of using jbl horns for the top end niether they sound great.the klipsh stuff ..hard to find and in my opinion not as good of a sound.mind you i am biased .you should get good sound from a k horn enclosure.

[Stevedel]

Thanks gang, for your input. The original idea was building the ultimate JBL horn speaker. I had accumulated the components for a 4345, subbing a pair of 2123's for the 2122's. I saw the EV Patrician 800, which is a scaled up Klipschorn. If I am going to build a big pair of speakers, let's build a BIG pair. The material used will be 3/4 maple ply. Lowe's has some, cheap. I know that the bass cab needs to be solid, which is why I ordered a big Bosch router. I have a huge lock-mitre bit and intend to make the corner horn as stiff and solid as possible. I can use the 4345's crossover plan and stack the 2123 mid-bass, 2420 driver and lens and 2405 on top. The question now, is to proceed, or build a somewhat less ambitious 4345. I know that the 4345 will sound good. Is it worth the extra effort to attempt a huge corner horn? I will think on this further and invite all comments. Thanks so much. Stevedel

[gasfan]

Well, how about a 'more' ambitious 4345? I have a recipe for a pair a la the great folks here that pieced it together for me. I'm subbing in 2206 mid-bass and 2441/2390. I have all the parts but still have not started the cabs. I wanted to be done this past Spring but the motor blew in my work van and set me back 10 grand. They will be fully active driven by probably a Marchand and three Acoustat TNT200 amps and one TNT120 recently rebuilt by Roy Esposito in Florida. I tend to think a 4345 would be more versatile in a home environment than a huge bass horn unless you have a theater size room:)

[Ruediger]

In the "General Audio Discussions" forum at this website, see the 3rd thread named "Technical References", in that thread see the 40th entry.

There is a paper from D.B.Keele about basshorn design using Thiele Small parameters.

Ruediger

[ivica]

In the "General Audio Discussions" forum at this website, see the 3rd thread named "Technical References", in that thread see the 40th entry.

There is a paper from D.B.Keele about basshorn design using Thiele Small parameters.

Ruediger

May more easier:

http://diy-audio.narod.ru/litr/Keele_1977-05_AES_Preprint_-_LF_Horn_Design_Using_TS_Paras.pdf

Regards
Ivica

[Hoerninger]

May more easier:
Or go to Mr.Keeles official website - lots of stuff there. ;)
http://www.xlrtechs.com/dbkeele.com/papers.htm
____________
Peter