L110 - Ain't broke don't fix it, or Let's do this thing?

[Goldjazz]

Hi All,

Firstly a big thanks to the site and this forum, recently I bought a pair of L110's on the basis of the good feedback I read here and I love them.

So basically I want to share a few pics of them, describe their state and see if there's any restoring work worth while doing or if I should just let them be.

So here's a rundown of the state of them

- 1 dented 033, the other is fine. At this stage I can't hear the difference between the good one and the dented one.
- L-pads appear to do their job, but crackle while turning.
- Foam on all drivers is intact but does look a bit tired (particularly on the midrange) . This is the the main one I'd like feedback on. Not sure If one can tell by looking at the pics if a refoam needs to be done.
-to Recap or not to Recap? I'd say these speakers are untouched since the late 70's. Does this mean they are most likely to benefit from a recap?
- Missing all but one speaker terminal plastic caps (anyone know where I can get these?)

Listening wise, as I said, I do love these. I am now a JBL convert for sure, and will be picking your brains for the next step up after these L110s. I have mainly been listening to Acoustic Research and Rodgers and briefly testing others like Spendors and IMF's. I got a pair of L65 Jubals for my brother, and kinda liked them so started looking for some JBLs for myslef. Got the L110's, they are better IMO than the Jubals (except for bass which is naturally better with the 12" L65s). I immediately understood the comments about detail and soundstage I read here about the L110s.

My setup: I have a Sansui Au10000 (same as Au11000A circa 1978) I also have an Accuphase E303. Interestingly, every other brand of speakers sound better on the Accuphase, except JBLs (L65's and the L110's) which are better on the Sansui. My source is just mp3's and Flacs feeding a cheapo dac.

While I have no experience restoring speakers I do like tinkering. These sounds great but I do wonder how much better they could sound. So I have no aversion to pulling them apart and playing with them. Any comments/advice greatly appreciated.

[4343]

Hi All, ...

- 1 dented 033, the other is fine. At this stage I can't hear the difference between the good one and the dented one.
- L-pads appear to do their job, but crackle while turning.
- Foam on all drivers is intact but does look a bit tired (particularly on the midrange) . This is the the main one I'd like feedback on. Not sure If one can tell by looking at the pics if a refoam needs to be done.
-to Recap or not to Recap? I'd say these speakers are untouched since the late 70's. Does this mean they are most likely to benefit from a recap?
- Missing all but one speaker terminal plastic caps (anyone know where I can get these?)
...

My take is to lose the twisty plastic caps in favor of some binding posts, lots of them to choose from and most will be better than the originals. That said PM me an address, I'll send you one if you want it.

L-pads usually just need a shot of DeOxit Fader Lube. It is a little tricky getting it in where it needs to be, but there are vents on the back of the housing that allow the liquid to enter. Use the plastic tube that comes with the Fader Lube pressed up against one or more of the vent slots.

A dented 033 would drive me nuts! Even after I took the driver apart and pressed the dome out from the rear it still had tiny dimples that caused little nulls at odd points, so I decided to try a Ti tweeter. That was a mistake, as I then needed to replace the crossover and mid to match. (ended up with a 4410A crossover and mid, which really was an "improvement", but pricey...

I tried different caps before just putting the 4410A stuff in, and to my ear the originals were better than some I tried. I would only replace any electrolytics, and then have to decide if spending more on film caps was worth it or not. You can put new electrolytics in for very little $. I recommend you leave the original film caps and the cardboard tubes filled with wax alone. Every one I have measured is still spot on the original value. That said the point-to-point wiring allows you to sub in a different cap or two to see if you like them without damaging the originals if you are careful.

I don't believe LE-5's have foam surrounds, it's a cloth roll or some such that does not rot, but it can crack after years of use.

Enjoy them for a while to get used to the sound before doing anything drastic in any case...

[Goldjazz]

Thanks for the reply Mike I see you've been down this path before, great to get some tips from an experienced campaigner!

Thank so much for the offer of the plastic terminal part, I will PM you. I do need another two, so if anyone else has any ideas where to get them this would be greatly appreciated. Yes I've considered terminal posts so I can use thicker speaker wire.

L-pads: DeOxit. Thanks I will do that for sure.

Dented 033: Yeah this is a real shame and I also don't think I can just leave it and do nothing. I've read unsuccessful reports about popping the dent out. I know how rare the 033's are, but I'll prob keep an eye out for a replacement one, or a pair. Yeah I was considering that Ti "upgrade", but after giving it some thought I think I want to restore them to original rather than improve them if you know what I mean.

Midrange - yeah after writing my message I "realized" these aren't foam. As for the woofers: it's tricky to know if they need to be refoamed or not. There are no visible cracks or anything, but are maybe a little dry. Does anyone know if it's worth installing "fresh" foam or is this only done if there are cracks or breaks in the foam?

Good advice re the caps. Yeah I figure I could take them out, measure them and replace them if they're out of spec, and as you said I should be able to put them back in if the new one's don't sound as good. And to your point agree that it's wise to get used to the sound first.

For those interested I now know (due to other posts here) that these are L110 A's due to the elbow like ports. Serial numbers are 51490 and 51498 with the "A" marking. I assume that's a high serial number and means they are later models, not sure if this means they are therefore less likely to have degraded electrolytic caps. Not sure if many of these guys made it down here to Australia, I haven't seen many come up for sale around here.

Thanks again for the reply.

[Don C]

I havent taken apart an 033, but if its similar to other JBL tweeters, then its possible to separate the diaphragm from the magnet assembly and push out the dome from the back.

[4313B]

It doesn't really work. I have two sitting here on my shelf that refuse to reclaim their former shape. They are phenolic, maybe there is a way to reform them, maybe some heat or some chemical to make the resin temporarily pliant?

[badman]

It doesn't really work. I have two sitting here on my shelf that refuse to reclaim their former shape. They are phenolic, maybe there is a way to reform them, maybe some heat or some chemical to make the resin temporarily pliant?


I might try a rounded glass wand, heated up with a torch lighter or over the stovetop, and pressed against the inside of it. Naturally you wouldn't want it TOO hot but it'd be worth a try.

Regarding the woofer foam, if it's still flexible don't worry about it- if it's brittle, replace. If you touch it to find out and it crumbles.... then you have your answer.

[Goldjazz]

Thanks Badman when I get some replacement 033s I'll try that trick on this one and let ya'll now how it goes.

Yep by those standards my foam is certainly ok, so good news.


I might try a rounded glass wand, heated up with a torch lighter or over the stovetop, and pressed against the inside of it. Naturally you wouldn't want it TOO hot but it'd be worth a try.

Regarding the woofer foam, if it's still flexible don't worry about it- if it's brittle, replace. If you touch it to find out and it crumbles.... then you have your answer.

[Chris Brown]

Nice speakers. Same mid and tweeter as my L150's. One of my 033's had a dent in it, although much much smaller than your dent. I was able to pull it out to where you can barely tell.

Keep an eye out for 034 tweeters also. They are drop-in replacements. I bought a pair to experiment with and I thought they sounded great although the plastic frame rattled a bit with heavy bass. With the smaller woofer in the L110 that might not be an issue.

[Goldjazz]

Yeah thanks Chris I'm really impressed by them. Ok will keep an eye out for the 034's too.


Nice speakers. Same mid and tweeter as my L150's. One of my 033's had a dent in it, although much much smaller than your dent. I was able to pull it out to where you can barely tell.

Keep an eye out for 034 tweeters also. They are drop-in replacements. I bought a pair to experiment with and I thought they sounded great although the plastic frame rattled a bit with heavy bass. With the smaller woofer in the L110 that might not be an issue.

[LRBacon]

I have used Gorilla tape or duct tape to pull out the dents in 033 tweeter domes. If you very gently press part of an inch long or so piece of tape in the middle of the depressed area you can usually pull the dent out by pulling the tape away from the dome. I have also used this method to pull out minor dents in the LE5-10 aluminum dust caps. You probably won't be able to get the aluminum back into it's original shape by doing the method, but they will be better than they were before doing it. I have also used a vacuum clean hose to suck 033 domes out, granted it's not the best thing to do. The pic of a damaged 033 dome shown below probably is too deeply dented to resurrect, although it still may be possible. This one is currently on eBay.
Keep your eye on eBay, they come up fairly often.

Larry

[Goldjazz]

Thanks Larry, I will give this a go. Just curious, did you notice an improvement in Tweeter after doing this. Yeah been watching ebay, just missed out on one not long ago.



I have used Gorilla tape or duct tape to pull out the dents in 033 tweeter domes. If you very gently press part of an inch long or so piece of tape in the middle of the depressed area you can usually pull the dent out by pulling the tape away from the dome. I have also used this method to pull out minor dents in the LE5-10 aluminum dust caps. You probably won't be able to get the aluminum back into it's original shape by doing the method, but they will be better than they were before doing it. I have also used a vacuum clean hose to suck 033 domes out, granted it's not the best thing to do. The pic of a damaged 033 dome shown below probably is too deeply dented to resurrect, although it still may be possible. This one is currently on eBay.
Keep your eye on eBay, they come up fairly often.

Larry

[Goldjazz]

Big thanks to Mike for sorting me out with some of those plastic speaker terminal caps for my L110's. Legend.

[Goldjazz]

Thanks for the Tape trick for popping out a dented 033, worked pretty good. The dome is much softer and easier to pop out then I was expecting. It's not perfect, can still see some slight dimples but it's pretty good. Before and after shots below.










I have used Gorilla tape or duct tape to pull out the dents in 033 tweeter domes. If you very gently press part of an inch long or so piece of tape in the middle of the depressed area you can usually pull the dent out by pulling the tape away from the dome. I have also used this method to pull out minor dents in the LE5-10 aluminum dust caps. You probably won't be able to get the aluminum back into it's original shape by doing the method, but they will be better than they were before doing it. I have also used a vacuum clean hose to suck 033 domes out, granted it's not the best thing to do. The pic of a damaged 033 dome shown below probably is too deeply dented to resurrect, although it still may be possible. This one is currently on eBay.
Keep your eye on eBay, they come up fairly often.

Larry