Info needed on L300

[afico]

Hello guys,

i would like to return to a JBL nirvana..:-)

in the past i've had only a pair of L112 in a small room and they were delicious indeed..

now with a new house with a 50mq room i would like to have an almost full range JBL speaker.

i pointed my choice on L300

will it sound 'full' in a so large room? I can use ADCOM 585le...

my other alternative would be a Klipschorn
are those comparable ?

[Mr. Widget]

If you have the perfect room for Klipschorns they can be compelling, but they do have a distinctive sound that you may or may not like. The L300 or 4333 pro version is more neutral though it too has a slightly colored sound. Have you considered the 4345? It has deeper bass than either the Klipsch or the L300, and is more neutral than either.

All of these speakers should do well in a large room.


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[grumpy]

All of these speakers should do well in a large room.


+1

... room requirements for K-horns are pretty specific, and unyielding.

I don't think that it would be a tough call though (in terms of being 'comparable')...
if you heard them both.

These designs tend to polarize preferences one way or the other. Neither is "right"

Nice to have such problems as picking out speakers at this level :)

[BMWCCA]

Have you considered the 4345? It has deeper bass than either the Klipsch or the L300, and is more neutral than either.

I was gonna chime in with that suggestion early this morning before work, but felt my opinion wasn't worthy of expressing.

Glad to hear others with more cred saying it for me.

I was also going to suggest that the L300 or 4333 might benefit from upgrading from the 2231 to the 2235H. :dont-know:

I figure those with L300s can be very happy . . . if they've never heard the 4345!

[Mostlydiy]

I was also going to suggest that the L300 or 4333 might benefit from upgrading from the 2231 to the 2235H.

Sorry, haven´t done any research but what would you gain by changeing the 2231 to the 2235? Is the improvements really worth the effort? I quess you would have to change the tuning, volume, x-over etc to properly integrate the new driver. For me having a original speaker with alnico all the way is half the fun.

/Mostly

[Mr. Widget]

Sorry, haven´t done any research but what would you gain by changeing the 2231 to the 2235? Is the improvements really worth the effort? I quess you would have to change the tuning, volume, x-over etc to properly integrate the new driver. For me having a original speaker with alnico all the way is half the fun.

/MostlyIf you make the change, you don't need to change any of the parameters... the newer 2235H is meant to drop right in. The gain is lower distortion. That said, the two woofers do not sound exactly the same and some people prefer the older 136A/2231A woofer.


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[Mostlydiy]

well, in that case it wouldn´t be very hard to try it out and find out what driver one would prefer.

Thanks for the info.

/Mostly

[ivica]

If you make the change, you don't need to change any of the parameters... the newer 2235H is meant to drop right in. The gain is lower distortion. That said, the two woofers do not sound exactly the same and some people prefer the older 136A/2231A woofer.


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I am one of them, unfortunately rotten foam for 2231A can not be find.... (Vas > 700 Lit )....

Regards
Ivica

[remusr]

If your spiders & cones are good I would refoam them with a good kit rather than putting in a JBL 2235H recone kit to keep them original. Lots of 2235H out there, not many 2231's.
The 2231 has 16Hz Fs vs 20 for the 2235, larger 736 litre VAS vs 458, 93.6dB vs 93.3dB sensitivity, 5.1 vs 8.4mm Xmax, 0.63" vs 0.75" voice coil winding, 150 vs 300W rating. I'd expect slightly flatter bass with the 2231, looking at JBL/GT's freq resp curves show from flat bench 375-475Hz both jump up 2dB by 500Hz; both are -2dB at 100Hz but the 2231H is -8dB at 30Hz vs 2235H at -10dB. The 2235 will have higher power handling & max SPL. Cannot find distortion data, would be enclosure dependent.

[afico]

thanks a lot guys for your suggestions..
i was also thinkin about a 4333a that i found in a perfect shape ..
is it so different from the L300? what about brutal force and sense of liveness?

[Mr. Widget]

thanks a lot guys for your suggestions..
i was also thinkin about a 4333a that i found in a perfect shape ..
is it so different from the L300? what about brutal force and sense of liveness?It should be sonically identical or virtually so to the L300.


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[speakerdave]

With added advantage of being able to biamp.

[afico]

about biamping, in order to make some initial experiments, would i need an external crossover or could i put simply two power amplifiers with volume controls?

[Mctwins]

about biamping, in order to make some initial experiments, would i need an external crossover or could i put simply two power amplifiers with volume controls?

Always use an active x-over when bi-amping. The amps will feel better.

[afico]

Ok
can you give indications about a cheap model and settings?
Today i bring 4333 ehe

[Mctwins]

Ok
can you give indications about a cheap model and settings?
Today i bring 4333 ehe

I can recommend the dbx PA+. Relativly cheap but with great features.

Don't know how much knowledge you have in x-over units, but here is my advice...

If bi-amping the 4333A the x-over is 800 Hz between Low and High and one would use Lowpass filter around 900-950Hz for the bass and Highpass filter at around 650-700 Hz for the mid/high with Linkwitz-R or Butterworth with 24dB/oct. But this has to be tested out with different slopes and cut-off freq to see what works best.

There seems to be a swich at back of the bindingpost on 4333A. Set it accordingly.

What amps are you gonna drive the speakers?

[Mr. Widget]

Ok
can you give indications about a cheap model and settings?
Today i bring 4333 eheCongratulations!

I personally am not very fond of the inexpensive digital crossovers... they are very flexible which is great for testing various configurations and many people seem happy with their sound, but I don't think they sound as good as the better analog models. As digital crossovers with integral DSP control gain favor, the analog crossovers have become more affordable. We have a whole section here on the forum that specifically covers electronic crossovers... you might want to check it out.


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[afico]

i am going to use CROWN PAS 2 and AR Classic 30

shouldn't i use a crossover with 12 db/ octave lope?

[Mr. Widget]

i am going to use CROWN PAS 2 and AR Classic 30

shouldn't i use a crossover with 12 db/ octave lope?Good amp choices... 12dB slopes would be a good start, but you might find an asymmetrical slope or one with steeper slopes may actually work better. The original spec for these speakers was made back in the day before JBL got very creative with their passive networks and the actives available back then were not very flexible.


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[afico]

couldi it be a good idea?
http://www.dbxpro.com/en-US/products/234xl

today i tested them in 'mono' amp with the Crown...really nice but i was expecting more bass..

maybe biamping the story could be different?
I see that almost all the owners of this speaker use it in that way..there must be a reason..:banghead::banghead:

[Mr. Widget]

couldi it be a good idea?
http://www.dbxpro.com/en-US/products/234xl

today i tested them in 'mono' amp with the Crown...really nice but i was expecting more bass..

maybe biamping the story could be different?
I see that almost all the owners of this speaker use it in that way..there must be a reason..:banghead::banghead:Not fundamentally... the amount of bass is always room dependent, but it seems a lot of people see that big 15" woofer and assume there will be a ton of bass. I know many people who have run these with subwoofers... then again, a lot of people find they are too bass heavy!

It all depends on your room, room placement, and expectations... that said, biamping will affect the sound, but it will not fundamentally change their performance.


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[speakerdave]

As I recall the biamp switch takes the low pass with its inline inductor out of the circuit and the tapped inductor for the midhorn as well, while leaving the woofer zobel in place along with the high pass filter and compensation. Therefore you can bypass the high pass of your electronic crossover. Set the low pass at 800. If you have a crossover such as the UREI 525 so you can dial in the frequency that is all the better. The treble and UHF on this speaker require compensation; this arrangement leaves it in place.

The sonic effects of the additional circuitry that an electronic crossover puts in line is most audible in the treble in my experience even with high quality crossovers like the UREI and the Bryston 10B, so the type of biamping arrangement used in the JBL 4333A is much to be preferred. I use it in my custom setup.

I used the 4333A for two or three years. There have been moments when I've wondered if letting it go was too much to pay for upgraditis. Note, that it is the same basic idea--a 15" woofer, treble horn and UHF--that JBL has returned to with its current S9900 and D67000.

Check the 4333A crossover schematic at JBL Pro.

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Network Schematics/3133A Network.pdf

[BMWCCA]

I'm quite happy with the Ashly XR1001 i've been using with my 4345s for about four years now. Easy to find and not terribly expensive. :dont-know:

[afico]

Thanks a lot guys for your experiences

The dbx that you see in the link could be a good match? Here in italy is really cheap
Coming back to my listening tests i ve put the sepakers closer to the wall and nowbot is better..i am fighting now with a rather forward midrange and ..with scratchy mid controls..when i touch it seems that mid and tweeters go away ehe
Can i clean it on some ways?

[Mctwins]

I can recommend the dbx PA+. Relativly cheap but with great features.

Don't know how much knowledge you have in x-over units, but here is my advice...

If bi-amping the 4333A the x-over is 800 Hz between Low and High and one would use Lowpass filter around 900-950Hz for the bass and Highpass filter at around 650-700 Hz for the mid/high with Linkwitz-R or Butterworth with 24dB/oct. But this has to be tested out with different slopes and cut-off freq to see what works best.

There seems to be a swich at back of the bindingpost on 4333A. Set it accordingly.

What amps are you gonna drive the speakers?

If the switch by-passes the crossover in the speakers the better choice would be 800Hz with 12dB/oct as says in the manual, depends what x-over unit is being used. No x-over unit has the same charaterisics when you look at slopes and filters.

The settings above mentioned is still with the crossover in the speaker.
Sorry for the missleading info :)

[Mctwins]

couldi it be a good idea?
http://www.dbxpro.com/en-US/products/234xl

today i tested them in 'mono' amp with the Crown...really nice but i was expecting more bass..

maybe biamping the story could be different?
I see that almost all the owners of this speaker use it in that way..there must be a reason..:banghead::banghead:

I still have my dbx 223XL, it only has 24dB/oct filter Linkwitz-Riley and that goes for the 234XL as well.

If my memory is correct, the 223XL had more hiss compared to PA+, PA+ is much better unit, more feature and more filters slopes settings and so on...

Just my opinion..

[BMWCCA]

I still have my dbx 223XL, it only has 24dB/oct filter Linkwitz-Riley and that goes for the 234XL as well.

If my memory is correct, the 223XL had more hiss compared to PA+, PA+ is much better unit, more feature and more filters slopes settings and so on...

Just my opinion..The Ashly seems to sell from $120 to $220 on Ebay used. Mine has been dead quiet always. Never hear any noise from it. I paid $125 shipped. Truth be told, I've never compared it to any other X/O. Considered the Marchand but I'd hate to find no improvement for the price.

[hjames]

The Ashly seems to sell from $120 to $220 on Ebay used. Mine has been dead quiet always. Never hear any noise from it. I paid $125 shipped. Truth be told, I've never compared it to any other X/O. Considered the Marchand but I'd hate to find no improvement for the price.

I'll vouch for that too. Had great luck with mine - silent and very effective.
I got a spare a bit later, and when I sold the 4341s with the Ashley
I kept the spare for future use.

Based on a tip from Phil a few years back, I made sure both of mine were the US-made ones.

[Mr. Widget]

I'll vouch for that too. Had great luck with mine - silent and very effective.
I got a spare a bit later, and when I sold the 4341s with the Ashley
I kept the spare for future use.

Based on a tip from Phil a few years back, I made sure both of mine were the US-made ones.I'm not sure who first discovered the Ashley, maybe Bo? I bought one way back when and have kept mine too...


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[BMWCCA]

I'm not sure who first discovered the Ashley, maybe Bo? I bought one way back when and have kept mine too... I recall reading references to the Ashly in the DIY 4345 threads before I got my 4345s and Bo was always a major proponent of the Ashly as a great budget solution. There should be plenty of discussion on the topics in the old threads.

When I purchased my 4345s, New Zenith was using a BSS FDS 310 crossover and Hafler amps with them. The Ashly was his suggestion, too.

I thought it would be a budget solution to get the new system up and running and that I might later wish to consider the Marchand recommended by many here. I really have no issues with my current set-up so I haven't considered doing away with the Ashly since.

I believe the model XR1001 are all US-made while the later XR-1001 can be either from NY or China depending on vintage. The other difference in the "dash" models is a rear-panel on-off and I recall one additional feature difference related to balanced output or XLRs that wasn't important but I can't remember it now.

[speakerdave]

Fortunately with the 4333A you don't have to listen to any of them in the treble.

[Mostlydiy]

If you make the change, you don't need to change any of the parameters... the newer 2235H is meant to drop right in. The gain is lower distortion. That said, the two woofers do not sound exactly the same and some people prefer the older 136A/2231A woofer.


If the 2231A is the pro version of the 136A, which woofer is the pro version of the white cone 135A? 2231A also? I know they are rare but I dont even find the T/S for the 135A in the JBLpro t/s pdf. I presume they are just the same as the 136A/2231A?

/Mostly

[speakerdave]

If the 2231A is the pro version of the 136A, which woofer is the pro version of the white cone 135A? 2231A also? I know they are rare but I dont even find the T/S for the 135A in the JBLpro t/s pdf. I presume they are just the same as the 136A/2231A?

/Mostly



i believe it was called the 2230.

[Mr. Widget]

i believe it was called the 2230.Yep... I believe it has essentially identical specs to the 2231A/136A... but the mass ring and less aquaplas is supposed to have lower distortion... not sure though.

http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/catalogs/1974-pro/page13.jpg


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[Mostlydiy]

Yep... I believe it has essentially identical specs to the 2231A/136A... but the mass ring and less aquaplas is supposed to have lower distortion... not sure though.


Without massring the mms would be a little smaller and possibly a little higher Fs. Lower distorsion on the 2231 wouldnt surprise me at all when its a newer driver.

I really like the look of the white cones, I wonder why they didnt make more of those...

/Mostly

[Mr. Widget]

Without massring the mms would be a little smaller and possibly a little higher Fs. I believe the idea was that the mass ring was designed to match the weight of all the gooped on aquaplas.


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