PDA

View Full Version : Searching for JBL Nirvana



Pengvim
05-19-2013, 02:49 AM
This might be one the most vague questions posed here, so brace yourselves.

I recently got myself a pair of JBL L-26 in superb condition (refoamed 2-3 years ago) and I have fallen in love.
Up until now I had only had some brief sessions with JBL, but I knew I had to get some. :D


Living with the L-26 for some weeks now, on the other hand, has made me greedy. I want more!But what should I put my aims on? :confused:

My livingroom isn't that large and I can't play that loud (right now) as I live in an apartment complex, so I guess I should look for some speakers that don't need to be played at full blast to "wake up".
And I don't think I could fit much larger speakers than the 240Ti.
I might be able to squeeze in something 50cm wide, but I have a feeling the missus will have a differing opinion on that.

I do like floorstanding speakers, but I could live with large bookshelf-speakers if that is beneficiary.
Within a budget of ~1000$ (in Norway), what should I put my sights on..?
I'd appreciate some input. I'm sure you guys have listened to a lot more JBL than I.

Sidenote:This will be driven with a tube amplifier. Possibly a Line Magnetic LM216IA (KT88 38W UL, 22W Triode)

Odd
05-19-2013, 03:10 AM
Hei!

Here is a good opportunity.
http://www.finn.no/finn/torget/tilsalgs/annonse?finnkode=41685285&searchQuery=jbl


Not mine.

Pengvim
05-19-2013, 04:22 AM
Hei!

Here is a good opportunity.
http://www.finn.no/finn/torget/tilsalgs/annonse?finnkode=41685285&searchQuery=jbl

Not mine.

Interesting.
I don't know the L100T, but I'm guessing they beat the L26?

I'm thinking that I'd probably upgrade to something larger eventually though, or would they hold their ground against 240Ti, L150 etc..?

And do they need a lot of space behind them? I'll have to place them pretty close to the wall..

BMWCCA
05-19-2013, 06:44 AM
I think you might like the L100T as much, if not more than the 240Ti which seem to prove underwhelming to many given the quality of the individual components used. I have no idea what JBLs you might find available to you in your country which may prove to be your greatest constraint. BTW, those L100Ts have the surround attached to the front of the cone which is a big no-no here and generally puts into question the knowledge and inherent skill-level of the person or firm entrusted to perform the repair.

Before I saw the auction listing I was going to suggest the L5 would fit your requirements beautifully. I still think it's a great choice. A 4313B or L96 would be a logical jump from the L26 and would be hard to beat by anything near that size box. The L5 would gain you a smaller footprint, put the HF closer to your ears without stands, and would actually play very well close to walls despite the rear port. A small angle helps.

I think the L100T would require more space behind to work properly. Same problem with the 240Ti which generally sells for much more. The L5 is the bargain of the bunch and, unlike the others, performs well beyond the sum of its parts. I've set up a system specifically to run A-B comparisons between JBL system using a Soundcraftsmen Pro-Power-Four amp. Currently I have the following to sample in the same room: L96, 4412A, L80T/3, L3, L5, and L7. Taking the L7 out of the mix, the L5 is the clear winner compared to all others. I'll eventually be able to add my L112s and L150As to the mix but I'm pretty confident the favorites will remain the L5 and L7. (I discount the L7 simply because it is so much larger, likes so much more power to really sing, and overshadows the bass response of any other JBL in the room that it's simply not a fair comparison!)

Pengvim
05-19-2013, 07:38 AM
Indeed they do. That is a good point.
I emailed the seller and it turned out that it was just borrowed pictures.
The pair for sale looked much better. :)

That's interesting to read about the L5 and I'll be sure to keep my eyes open for them.
But is it suited for a tube amp? Reading about them I get the impression that they are made for more high powered equipment?

The side walls are actually pretty close as well, I estimate it to be about 60cm clearance on each side of the TV to a wall on one side and a bookshelf on the other (although it is much room beyond the bookshelf). The speakers are placed in those 60cm. That might be worth mentioning..

Compared to these mentioned models, how would older models like L55 Lancer etc compare?
I just think it looks so extremely cool. :D



I think you might like the L100T as much, if not more than the 240Ti which seem to prove underwhelming to many given the quality of the individual components used. I have no idea what JBLs you might find available to you in your country which may prove to be your greatest constraint. BTW, those L100Ts have the surround attached to the front of the cone which is a big no-no here and generally puts into question the knowledge and inherent skill-level of the person or firm entrusted to perform the repair.

Before I saw the auction listing I was going to suggest the L5 would fit your requirements beautifully. I still think it's a great choice. A 4313B or L96 would be a logical jump from the L26 and would be hard to beat by anything near that size box. The L5 would gain you a smaller footprint, put the HF closer to your ears without stands, and would actually play very well close to walls despite the rear port. A small angle helps.

I think the L100T would require more space behind to work properly. Same problem with the 240Ti which generally sells for much more. The L5 is the bargain of the bunch and, unlike the others, performs well beyond the sum of its parts. I've set up a system specifically to run A-B comparisons between JBL system using a Soundcraftsmen Pro-Power-Four amp. Currently I have the following to sample in the same room: L96, 4412A, L80T/3, L3, L5, and L7. Taking the L7 out of the mix, the L5 is the clear winner compared to all others. I'll eventually be able to add my L112s and L150As to the mix but I'm pretty confident the favorites will remain the L5 and L7. (I discount the L7 simply because it is so much larger, likes so much more power to really sing, and overshadows the bass response of any other JBL in the room that it's simply not a fair comparison!)

macaroonie
05-19-2013, 07:51 AM
Welcome. Lots of Norway boys here , sadly we lost one recently.

L96 / 4313 are indeed a good suggestion but you mention the 240Ti. For some reason it does not get the love the components would suggest , however I have a cunning plan for you if you could find a pair.
The Bass driver is superb , same as in the 250Ti so no problems there. Perhaps the problem is with the midrange not working down to the bass driver ??
Here is the plan , given that the 240 is NOT a bad speaker by any means , and will be a step up from the L26 , then if you can find a rescue pair this is what I suggest. Live with them for a while and research this :-

Remove the mid and tweet , cut a hole to suit the square 100 x 100 deg wavegide. ( pt-h1010 )
yes it fits , and then using the knowledge and resources available in these forums add the compression driver of your choice to make a stellar 2 way horn based system. You will of course need to re make the crossover networks to suit.

There is a member in Norway who I'm sure will help you with this.

You can help this along by selling the 044ti tweets , they are worth some money.

The horn / driver combinations are discussed in depth here :

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?6050-Horn-Driver-Comparisons

Or you could use the 2344 horn from the 4430 with a 2426 driver. The crossovers for this are well documented in these forums.

The 240ti box could use some internal bracing but that's easy and its a nice looking box.

End result - a top notch 2 way horn system that will have the JBL sound and that you will be proud of for many years to come and best of all without spending a kings fortune.

M

PS Others will probably disagree to this but hey , its my 2Kr worth

NickH
05-19-2013, 08:03 AM
It looks like the l100t has a sensitivity of 91 db watt/meter. A 20 to 30 watt amp would easily produce a comfortable listening volume with those speakers.

Another option is to look for a set of decade 36 speakers. Its the next step up from the 26.

I'm in the same place you are. My first jbl's were decade 26's. I loved them. I still have a special place in my heart for them. They blew me away. The only problem is where you are. There more then likely won't be as many opportunities to buy jbl's there.

Personally I don't think the l300t's have that classic jbl look that I've always like. But if I was given the chance to buy a pair I probably would.

Nick

Pengvim
05-19-2013, 08:10 AM
Well, the main reason that I thought of the 240Ti is that I actually had a deal on one of those that fell through about a year ago or so.

I like the idea, but I think that would be a bit too much work right now. My plan was to create a setup that I'm happy with and start DIYing, mostly amplifiers probably.

I'll keep it in the back of my head for later though..:)


Welcome. Lots of Norway boys here , sadly we lost one recently.

L96 / 4313 are indeed a good suggestion but you mention the 240Ti. For some reason it does not get the love the components would suggest , however I have a cunning plan for you if you could find a pair.
The Bass driver is superb , same as in the 250Ti so no problems there. Perhaps the problem is with the midrange not working down to the bass driver ??
Here is the plan , given that the 240 is NOT a bad speaker by any means , and will be a step up from the L26 , then if you can find a rescue pair this is what I suggest. Live with them for a while and research this :-

Remove the mid and tweet , cut a hole to suit the square 100 x 100 deg wavegide. ( pt-h1010 )
yes it fits , and then using the knowledge and resources available in these forums add the compression driver of your choice to make a stellar 2 way horn based system. You will of course need to re make the crossover networks to suit.

There is a member in Norway who I'm sure will help you with this.

You can help this along by selling the 044ti tweets , they are worth some money.

The horn / driver combinations are discussed in depth here :

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?6050-Horn-Driver-Comparisons

Or you could use the 2344 horn from the 4430 with a 2426 driver. The crossovers for this are well documented in these forums.

The 240ti box could use some internal bracing but that's easy and its a nice looking box.

End result - a top notch 2 way horn system that will have the JBL sound and that you will be proud of for many years to come and best of all without spending a kings fortune.

M

PS Others will probably disagree to this but hey , its my 2Kr worth

macaroonie
05-19-2013, 08:18 AM
The core of the idea is that the 240 is a respectable speaker with a great bass driver. It will play easily with your amps but the main point is that in time and with some research ( no cost ) and planning ( no cost ) they could provide a platform for a top grade speaker without having to build boxes etc etc.

The research on these horn combinations is all here in the archives. As I recall a few of our Norwegian and Swedish members have been at the diy horn mods for a few years now and have some of the components and such that you would need .

M

macaroonie
05-19-2013, 08:38 AM
Here is a link you should read.


http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?30039-JBL-240Ti-value

There is also a crude photo lash up I did with the PT-H1010HF in place on the 240ti baffle. It conveniently covers the existing holes for the tweet and mid.
As 4313b suggests the 2452 driver would be a suitable candidate for HF and the crossover design is in the archive somewhere already.

BMWCCA
05-19-2013, 08:41 AM
Another option is to look for a set of decade 36 speakers. Its the next step up from the 26.


Personally I don't think the l300t's have that classic jbl look that I've always like. But if I was given the chance to buy a pair I probably would.
If I had a pair of L26 (which I do), I'd probably not look to the L36 as an improvement or certainly not one worth spending a lot of money for. L96/4313B is a much better three-way.

I'm not sure what an L300T is though. :dont-know: :confused:

As someone who has grown from an 030 system running The Fisher SA-1000 tube amp and Mac C20 tube pre-amp (kept the Mac) I find every JBL I have can play well with either. If you like tubes, most vintage JBLs are efficient enough to work. My original 030 got played through the headphone jack of a ChannelMaster transistor radio for years back when I was a pre-teen.

The method of measuring efficiency ratings on JBL systems over the years has changed so it's not always easy for a non-EE to make sense of it. The L5 is rated 90dB/1-watt @ 1-meter. Since you mention them, the L150 is rated 88dB at the same power level/distance and the L150A at 89dB. Heck, even the 250Ti is measured at 90dB and we all know they need gobs more power to be at their best. The L5 amplifier power-range recommendation is 35-350watts, with the max power for the 250Ti is 400, the L150/A are listed at 300, and the L96 at 250, for what it's worth.

Pengvim
05-19-2013, 09:10 AM
I've posted a WTB on a norwegian forum. It will be interesting to see what turns up.

I'm still contemplating the L100T's, but I gather these might need a bit more space. And that would be "problematic".

I'm also drooling a bit on L65, L55 and the likes. Mostly because they look really awesome, as I haven't heard any of these.
But how do they compare? Are they sonically worth it, compared to the other models suggested here?

As much as I hate to admit it, it seems that I like speakers that don't look like refridgerators.
(although I do like the refridgerator looking kind to..)




The method of measuring efficiency ratings on JBL systems over the years has changed so it's not always easy for a non-EE to make sense of it.
Luckily, I'm not a non-EE. Finally I get some benefit from being a nerd. :D

Don C
05-19-2013, 09:31 AM
The 240Ti is a wonderful speaker. The trouble is that the tweeter tends to have rolled off high frequency response as it ages, mostly caused by rotted foam behind the dome. Since kits are no longer available to repair the tweeters, most of the remaining speakers are not going to sound good any more. I'd suggest something newer.

Robh3606
05-19-2013, 10:42 AM
I started with L25's back in 1972 then moved into L-88 Plus with the M12 expander kits essentially L100's for years. L100's have a 60Hz bump and a 7k peak both of which respond well to EQ but above 15K you have nothing from the LE-25 tweeter. The issues with any of the vintage systems now is the cone kits are mostly unavailable. That said I would think real hard about putting any real money into those systems. There have been some good suggestions just be aware if you need a driver down the road you are going to have to Ebay it. I addition you used to be able to purchase cores and recone to end up with a new system. Sadly that option is now gone. Rob:)

BMWCCA
05-19-2013, 10:49 AM
I'm also drooling a bit on L65, L55 and the likes. Mostly because they look really awesome, as I haven't heard any of these.
But how do they compare? Are they sonically worth it, compared to the other models suggested here?
The L65 is another vintage JBL that doesn't seem to deliver as much as it promises. Mostly loved for the UHF and the glass-top aesthetics, many assume it will be a less-expensive L300 but the results say otherwise. Those who have them love them but both the mid-range and the bottom end seem to be a compromise. Updated woofer might help but then there's still the mids which work fine in most bookshelf versions but people seem to expect more from the floor-stander. That and they really need an elevated base to deliver the best from the 077 to a seated listener. Pretty but not that well worked out. The L55 is much more rare from what I've seen but will likely suffer from the same issues; pretty but not that great to listen to. And you'll have the Lansaloy surrounds to deal with. I've never heard them but I'd speculate your L26 might out-perform an L55 with its original surrounds still in place. Maybe not but I doubt it would be a huge improvement. When aesthetics become more important than sound, JBL has plenty to offer. If your intent is to leave whatever you get stock, neither of these would float my boat. If sound is more important, for the similar size footprint you'd be better off with a 4425.

Pengvim
05-19-2013, 03:14 PM
The L65 is another vintage JBL that doesn't seem to deliver as much as it promises. Mostly loved for the UHF and the glass-top aesthetics, many assume it will be a less-expensive L300 but the results say otherwise. Those who have them love them but both the mid-range and the bottom end seem to be a compromise. Updated woofer might help but then there's still the mids which work fine in most bookshelf versions but people seem to expect more from the floor-stander. That and they really need an elevated base to deliver the best from the 077 to a seated listener. Pretty but not that well worked out. The L55 is much more rare from what I've seen but will likely suffer from the same issues; pretty but not that great to listen to. And you'll have the Lansaloy surrounds to deal with. I've never heard them but I'd speculate your L26 might out-perform an L55 with its original surrounds still in place. Maybe not but I doubt it would be a huge improvement. When aesthetics become more important than sound, JBL has plenty to offer. If your intent is to leave whatever you get stock, neither of these would float my boat. If sound is more important, for the similar size footprint you'd be better off with a 4425.

Aestethics are definitely not more important than sound. A combination wouldn't be bad, but ultimately sound will trump looks as long as they look half-decent.

There is actually a pair of 4425's for sale, but the asking price is about 5000$. That's five times my budget, but is the eBay prices that high?

hjames
05-19-2013, 04:14 PM
Aestethics are definitely not more important than sound. A combination wouldn't be bad, but ultimately sound will trump looks as long as they look half-decent.

There is actually a pair of 4425's for sale, but the asking price is about 5000$. That's five times my budget, but is the eBay prices that high?

Only you can tell what a speaker is worth to you, but that sounds about 4x5 times higher than I would pay for it stateside.
Then again, they are more common here, and many of us here are cheap (smile)!

BMWCCA
05-19-2013, 04:23 PM
There is actually a pair of 4425's for sale, but the asking price is about 5000$. That's five times my budget, but is the eBay prices that high?That would buy you a perfect condition 4-way monitor with money left over, at least in the USA. For that money you could buy some 43xx or 44xx monitors that would be way too large for your room . . . or maybe 25 pair of L5s!

more10
05-19-2013, 04:24 PM
I don't know much about JBL boxes. What I do know is that it is a lot of fun building your own system from JBL components. 6000 norwegian should get you almost to a 3-way system with a horn/compression driver on the top.

more10
05-19-2013, 04:27 PM
http://www.hifimagasinet.com/annonsDetalj.asp?annonsID=74095

4425 10000 SEK in Gothenburg

Pengvim
05-19-2013, 11:54 PM
Only you can tell what a speaker is worth to you, but that sounds about 4x5 times higher than I would pay for it stateside.
Then again, they are more common here, and many of us here are cheap (smile)!

Well, I'm cheap to. Maybe I could have more luck on eBay with a little patience..

Mostlydiy
05-20-2013, 07:47 AM
Not very far from you...

http://www.blocket.se/varmland/Surroundanlaggning_47224426.htm?ca=11&w=3

/Mostly

gferrell
05-20-2013, 01:02 PM
Those L100T's are nice but If you want a bookshelf speaker maybe a 4412 or 4410. I have a pair of 4412a's in a fairly small room working as bookshelf's mounted on the wall and I am very pleased with them. With a front port they can be mounted directly against the wall. I can not say how they compare to the L-26 since I have never heard them.

Krunchy
05-20-2013, 04:24 PM
L96/4313B is a much better three-way.
+1. As has been suggested, the 4313B would be high on my list, if a pair pops up go for em, you wont be disapointed. I've had both (still have two pairs of 4313's) and liked the 4313 better, it has a slightly smaller footprint too, its not as deep as the L96. I have a pair of L5's as well and although they come close, the 43s were my favorite, aesthetics wise its a more classic JBL speaker too IMO. that said, if a pair of L5's pop up at a good price jump on em, they are a good speaker.
Good Luck with the hunt :)

Pengvim
06-04-2013, 06:14 AM
I might be increasing my budget a little... :D

Right now I'm considering a pair of L220's and a pair of Century Gold. Both are in pristine condition.
The L220's are ~2500$ (in norway).
I haven't asked about price on the Century Gold yet.

Are these speakers worth it, or would I be better off waiting a little longer?

Odd
06-04-2013, 07:26 AM
It is 4430 for sale in Norway for almost the same price.

Not mine.

Pengvim
06-04-2013, 07:40 AM
It is 4430 for sale in Norway for almost the same price.Not mine.
Yes, I know. I'd like to get those, but unfortunately(?) I don't live alone any more.
We "agreed" that the horns on those won't be a good fit in the living room. :dont-know:

I'm guessing that 4430 is in another league, based on your comment?

Perhaps I should just start saving for L300's. :P

Mostlydiy
06-04-2013, 08:18 AM
Start out small

http://www.blocket.se/stockholm/JBL_L_100__AR_10Pi_47503589.htm?ca=11&w=3

and then go for something a little bigger... :)

http://www.hifitorget.se/visa_annons.php/high_end_tillfalle_jbl_mcintsosh_22282.htm

http://www.blocket.se/kristianstad/Jbl_250ti___jbl_b460_47402088.htm?ca=11&w=3 (looks lika a nice pair)

/Mostly

Mr. Widget
06-04-2013, 08:18 AM
Yes, I know. I'd like to get those, but unfortunately(?) I don't live alone any more.
We "agreed" that the horns on those won't be a good fit in the living room. :dont-know:
I can certainly appreciate that... the Century Golds are very nice looking speakers. I've never heard them myself, but would suggest you try to listen to them and see if they would satisfy you. I personally would pass on the L220s... they are very large but don't perform up to their size in my opinion. I've always thought their design was more market driven than optimized performance driven. The 15" passive radiator and acoustic lens in front of a bookshelf midrange driver to give the appearance of a 15" woofer and compression driver.

That said, I do know there are members here who love theirs so they may be just the ticket for you.


Widget

Pengvim
06-04-2013, 08:57 AM
The Century Gold pair is located on the other side of the country, so listening to them beforehand would be difficult.

Yes, I've noticed the opinion on the L220s are differing, to say the least.



Start out small

http://www.blocket.se/stockholm/JBL_L_100__AR_10Pi_47503589.htm?ca=11&w=3

and then go for something a little bigger... :)

http://www.hifitorget.se/visa_annons.php/high_end_tillfalle_jbl_mcintsosh_22282.htm

http://www.blocket.se/kristianstad/Jbl_250ti___jbl_b460_47402088.htm?ca=11&w=3 (looks lika a nice pair)

/Mostly

But I already have small! :D

Mostlydiy
06-04-2013, 09:54 AM
http://hifimagasinet.com/annonsDetalj.asp?annonsID=81809

dont know if they are still available though

you mentioned L300...

http://hifimagasinet.com/annonsDetalj.asp?annonsID=76044

/Mostly

Odd
06-04-2013, 10:19 AM
Create a new grill for 4430 as at the larger monitors.

59119

speakerdave
06-04-2013, 10:49 AM
Create a new grill for 4430 as at the larger monitors.

59119

Or an off-the-shoulder peasant blouse.

Mostlydiy
06-13-2013, 05:24 AM
Found JBL nirvana yet Pengvim?

Pengvim
06-14-2013, 04:43 PM
Found JBL nirvana yet Pengvim?

No, not yet. I've been terribly busy though. :)