4505 Wx

[Zilch]

O.K., see the pic for 4505 WX.

They came loaded with 2420's which is LE85, no? (16 ohm)

And 2216, which is LE15B? (8 ohm)

And the switched attenuation crossover shown, which is what?

If all of that, they're pro-equivalent L200's, I'm thinking. Didn't JBL make that model complete by some other designation? Wondering why these were assembled this way instead.

Finally, I have 3106's and 2402's I can use to upgrade to 3-way. That gonna work OK just by slappin' them in there? Problem being the mid attenuation will cut the HF concurrently. Guess that happens with all of them stacked dual xover schemes, tho. Was there an equivalent 3-way monitor as well?

Yes, I did follow the L200/B thread, but this combination wasn't addressed, and I thought it might be of separate interest here....

Maybe THESE be the ones to "Biradialize" with 2344A's? Recall I HATE honkin' L200's!

[Bass is phat, tho....] :D

[Zilch]

Mystery Xover:

Ooops! Excuse them loose wires, please. That was me trying 3105's in lieu of 3106's, if I recall....

[Alex Lancaster]

Don´t bother with the 2402's, unless You love 15KHz, get some 2405´s.

[Lawrence HF]

It seems to me that in your picture the slant plate is up-side down.

[Mr. Widget]

You do have a rare animal there! That speaker must pre-date the short lived 4325. It is a Pro Series L200, not L200B. The L200B was a 4330 but with the shorter horn as used in the 4320. I bet the 4505 WX was the model designation for an empty walnut studio monitor enclosure ca. 1970 or there abouts.

2216 is a 4-6ohm woofer.

I would guess that your mystery crossover in a Pro Series LX16 with the pad switch put in the crossover enclosure instead of the cabinet.

Have you opened it up? I bet it has the 2307 instead of the 2312.

Widget

[Zilch]

Originally posted by Mr. Widget
Have you opened it up? I bet it has the 2307 instead of the 2312.Actually, itza pair. A very rare pair, seemingly. :) The mate has it's back to you there. Indeed, the label says "4505WX Enclosure."

It's the long horn, like H91; gotta make some room to open them up to see the model for sure. I did remove the crossover; 3122, it says, "JBL Professional" foilcal on the side.

Also dug around for the crossovers to add on. Old 3106's (8000 Hz for use with 2420) say VHF driver should be 16 Ohms.

Old pair of 3105's , (7000 Hz) say 12-16 Ohms.

Newer pair of 3105's say 8 Ohms.

All say MF driver 16 Ohms.

Pffftttt. Read somewhere that these, like N7000 are "special" in that they work with either 8 or 16 Ohm VHF. Now I gotta RESEARCH! :rolleyes:

No 16-Ohm 2405's just layin' around here, alas.

The lens is on with velcro. I flipped it, in the interest of purity, as requested above.... :p

[Alex Lancaster]

Long horn is H92.

[4313B]

http://audioheritage.csdco.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=459&highlight=N8000

The 3122 (http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Network%20Schematics/3122%20Network.pdf) (LX16) was used in the 4325 with the 2216, 2420, 2307/2308

Same load out as the original L200 (LE15B, LE85, HL91, LX16)

All 077/2405 ring radiators are the same impedance, ignore the foilcals.

[Mr. Widget]

Zilch,

We have covered this a couple of times in the past, but there is essentially one impedance for the 2402 (075) and one impedance for the 2405 (077) even though the foilcals have stated either 8 or 16 ohms depending on vintage. Same is true for some woofers... it can get rather confusing.

Widget

[Zilch]

Brief mention of the 4325 on the last page of the 4320 brochure, (http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/specs/pro-speakers/1972-4320.htm) circa 1972.

Apparently, there was a mandatory upgrade required for the 3122 to 3122A (http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Network%20Schematics/3122A%20Network.pdf), same as LX 16. Will stacking on the 3106 with its additional attenuation obviate the necessity of changing Cx and Lx as shown? Previous owner(s) didn't smoke the 2420's as they are still working with original seals.

Does "ignore the foilcal" apply to current production 2402H and 2405H as well? I believe I recall now that they are all the same, and should work with this combination of crossovers.

That's a REALLY long horn there. Mid's gonna be just coasting from 1200 - 8000 Hz. :cool:

[Mr. Widget]

Yes ignore the foilcal for the H series too as they haven't changed them except for the magnetic material, and no they are not the same. The 2402 (075) takes the D8R075, the 2403 (076) takes the D8R076, and the 2405 (077) takes the D16R2405.

Widget

[Mr. Widget]

If you are going to keep these, you may want to read Infredible's and Bo's comments.

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3455

Widget

[majick47]

Re the recommended 2405 tweeters does it matter if they are 8 ohm or 16 ohm for planning L200b upgrade with 3106 crossovers? Rich.

[Zilch]

Does it matter if they are 8 ohm or 16 ohm for planning L200b upgrade with 3106 crossovers?Check Giskard's and Widget's posts above. It doesn't matter, not even with new production. They are all the same actual impedance, apparently....

[Chas]

Zilch, these kind of look like what got me started in this whole JBL thang...... Only mine were the 4325 with 2420(LE85)/2307/2308 and the 2216 boomer woofer. Anybody want buy a pair of 2216's?

The xover looks like mine too, a 3112 I think it is, not sure - I am at the office right now. It was definitely a 1200 Hz cutoff though. My cabinets are 4505 too, but they were light "utility" gray.

I built integral bases for mine to get the horns up to ear level, reinforced the bottom, back and top, then dropped in an S22-2 line up, alnico 2235, 2441 (aluminum)2311/2308, 2405H and use a 3 way passive network that Giskard conjured up and posted here as a voltage equivalent to the 3133 network that doesn't need a tapped inductor.

I wanted to mirror image the tweeters and needed to seal up one of the vents so I used an 11 gauge steel plate that also serves as a finishing plate for the new 2405 hole (since I had a heck of a time cutting a 3 and 3/32" hole in wood!

Besides the tweeter holes were drilled for three mounting screws for the 075 and needed to be covered up.

I haven't yet tuned the remaining vent but it's probably a moot point in my system, since I actively cut the cabinet off at 100 Hz/6 dB/octave.

In short, there is lots of potential to have some fun. Being an unskilled wood worker, the boxes were very convenient to try different ideas.
:smthsail::D

[Zilch]

That seems to be them. I think I'll add the 2402H's and 3106's and crank 'em up. Gotta decide what I wanna keep here. :p

[Mr. Widget]

Originally posted by Zilch
Gotta decide what I wanna keep here. :p

Just how many sets of speakers do you have???

Widget

[Zilch]

Originally posted by Mr. Widget
Just how many sets of speakers do you have???
I was THINKIN' maybe one too many. :rolleyes:

Which means I gotta "improve" it to dissipate that anomalous cognition.

You know the drill.... :D

[Zilch]

More on this project here:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=4161

[hjames]

I just bought a set of these 4505/4320 speakers on ebay and will be bringing them home soon (got delayed by the East Coast snowstorm). I read your posts on your project from Nov 2004 - Jan 2005 - but I'm wondering what happened with the project.
Did you finish upgrading them to L300 equivalents?
I'd be interested in your comments on the sound?

[Zilch]

As you see in the Q&D 4430 thread, I've been diverted doing two-ways in the meantime.

HOWEVER, 2235H's are at the reconer for these boxes, and I hope to get back on them in the next month or so.

Your 4320's will already come with the right woofer, no?

The problem is getting the longer 800 Hz HL92 horn into the box....

[hjames]

Of course, being somewhat cynical by nature I can't tell you the specifics of the speakers until I have time to open them up, but the woofer does appear to have a rounded surrounded, rather than the accordian-pleat surround used on the woofers of the 4312A I had once..
I can't tell the length of the horn until I open the box - but don't the 4320 and L200 have pretty much the same horn? (2307 vs 2312)?
The spec sheets for both say the box depth is right around 23 inches
From the upgrade threads I've right here in the forums, it seems like I'd do well to find a pair of 2405/077 slot tweeters.
But I'm a bit confused. Some of them look to have a "dark" wedge in the slot, and some look to have a glass or lucite(?) wedge - what are the differences between the two? Is there much of a sonic difference?
Maybe I should get a pair of the L200 (early style) boxes - they look a bit more living room friendly than the spartan look of the 4505 WX cabinets - and the dimensions seem very similar - tho I noticed the 4505 boxes are 3/4 inch plywood and I gather the L200 boxes are the usual veneered composite board. Any thoughts on that?
Thanks for all the info you folks share here - its fantastic!

[toddalin]

But I'm a bit confused. Some of them look to have a "dark" wedge in the slot, and some look to have a glass or lucite(?) wedge - what are the differences between the two? Is there much of a sonic difference?
Thanks for all the info you folks share here - its fantastic!

"Dark" wedge is the pro-version 2405 while "lucite" wedge is consumer 077 version. The clear wedges tend to get more $$$ on epay sales but from what I've read, more prone to break the wedge if over tightened. Should sound the same and there is probably more variation between individual units than which of the two types of units are employed

[Zilch]

Of course, being somewhat cynical by nature I can't tell you the specifics of the speakers until I have time to open them up, but the woofer does appear to have a rounded surrounded, rather than the accordian-pleat surround used on the woofers of the 4312A I had once.From that pic, it looks like you have the right woofer, 2231 (I believe, maybe refoamed 2215).
I can't tell the length of the horn until I open the box - but don't the 4320 and L200 have pretty much the same horn? (2307 vs 2312)?Yup, and that's a bit of a problem. 2307 doesn't play as well down to 800 Hz as 2312. The question is whether you can fit 2312 in that box without punching out the rear. I'm not advocating that, certainly. You'll have to measure to see if it will fit. 2312 is required for L300 MF performance, if that's what you're looking for.

You can see the cutout for the UHF driver. It's on the left of both of my cabinets, i.e., they are not mirror imaged. No matter, vertical inline in the space above the MF driver is a better location, anyway. It's a simple holesaw operation to get it there.

Regarding LR friendliness of these boxes vs L200, it's a matter of taste, mostly, but the L200 baffles are also tilted back. You need to asess where these will be sitting with respect to your listening position. The 2405 becomes quite narrow in its vertical dispersion at the highest frequencies (above 10 kHz,) and needs to be "aimed" if you care about that, which means either the 4505 might be aimed too low (a plinth will solve that) or the L200 too high, or maybe, just right.

http://www.jblpro.com/pages/pub/components/2405.pdf

It also narrows in the horizontal, but that's less of an issue. Work out the geometry for your proposed listening space as part of the cabinet decision process, is what I'm saying. We know for fact that 2312 will not fit in L200 cabinets.

Me? I'm now thinking I might cut 2407H on PT-F95 or OASR into mine, having heard it used as a tweeter on 3105 crossover a couple of days ago. I'll try it outboard first. It blended well with 2370A, and sounded much better than the traditional ring radiators. Maybe the same here.

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=92187&postcount=97

[This thread belongs in DIY now.... :p ]