Jbl 537-500

[Mostlydiy]

Hello Lansing people,

First question ever at this forum so bear with me :)

Whats the deal with these horns? They go for serious dollars at ebay and yet there arent much to be read about them. Xover frequencies? Do they need a tweeter? By the looks of them I would say 800Hz like the 2395 and that they need a tweeter though. Is it the way they sound that makes them so expensive or is it the fact that they are rare and sought after by many?

/Regards
Mostly

[4313B]

They are collector's items.

[Mr. Widget]

Whats the deal with these horns?Bear in mind I have never heard them or even seen a pair in person, but I have owned a couple variants of the much smaller 1" exit versions... I think the high cost of the 537-500s is collector value and mystique. The small ones sound pretty "vintage" in my opinion and other than being a compact design that will fit conveniently behind a grille, I would never waste a good driver behind one. I can't imagine the big brother is superior to the 2397 or even the big serpentine horn lens... and now days there are so many superior horns, except in the case of restoring a vintage system for display purposes, I'd stay away from most of these older horns.


Widget

[Mostlydiy]

Im not surpriced by your replies. Most of the time you see a pair, they are coupled with bubble back 375s, which how I understand it sound like 2440 but costs 10 times more. It would be fun to hear a pair though. I belive most of the copies are sold in asia.

/mostly

[NickH]

Im not surpriced by your replies. Most of the time you see a pair, they are coupled with bubble back 375s, which how I understand it sound like 2440 but costs 10 times more. It would be fun to hear a pair though. I belive most of the copies are sold in asia.

/mostly

The 375 doesn't just sound like a 2440. Its basically is a 2440. The difference is cosmetic.

At least that the impression Ive got.



Nick

[Mostlydiy]

Thats what Ive read too. One would think that they made at least some tiny change during the ~ 25 years they were produced, when they changed from bubble back to the black backside ie. Looks as if the back chamber changed volume or something. Anyway, could be that I´ll make myself an own impression. I might have some drivers incoming.

/mostly

[NickH]

Thats what Ive read too. One would think that they made at least some tiny change during the ~ 25 years they were produced, when they changed from bubble back to the black backside ie. Looks as if the back chamber changed volume or something. Anyway, could be that I´ll make myself an own impression. I might have some drivers incoming.

/mostly


Ive never seen a 375 in person. But it doesnt look like there is less volume in the back chamber of a 375.

[Mostlydiy]

Im sure Its just me seeing stuff again... :) They do look quite different though.

58601 58602

Anyway, I know my 2441 sounds pretty good without back covers all together and I believe the 375 do too

[NickH]

Im sure Its just me seeing stuff again... :) They do look quite different though.

58601 58602

Anyway, I know my 2441 sounds pretty good without back covers all together and I believe the 375 do too


Ya but what about the phase plug. What do they look like. Outside appearance doesnt matter much to do with the sound.


Besides the shape of the back cap look at where the terminals are. Look at where the screws are. Its all the same.

[Mostlydiy]

Im sure the phase plug is the same and Im sure the back chamber volume is the same. I have no experience of what they sound like, just saying that they look different. I most likely will have the opportunity to se and test for myself in a matter of a few weeks and I will probably say like everybody else that they sound just the same as well.

[NickH]

Im sure the phase plug is the same and Im sure the back chamber volume is the same. I have no experience of what they sound like, just saying that they look different. I most likely will have the opportunity to se and test for myself in a matter of a few weeks and I will probably say like everybody else that they sound just the same as well.


If you get your hands on one can you take some pictures on the phase plug? Im curious to see it. I have 2445's and 2440's. But the diaphragms are from a apir of 375's. For hifi I think the 375 diaphragms are the best sounding jbl made. But not the most extended Highs though.

For what its worth Ive often concidered trying to diy a pair of 537-500's. But I havent yet found enough info on the horn.

Nick

[Mr. Widget]

There is a difference in various 375s and 2440s... later and later versions had loser gap tolerances and therefore have lower magnetic flux densities. Ideally the gap is as tight as possible, but issues with old used diaphragms are a much bigger deal than having a tighter gap... and new diaphragms may or may not fit in the older tighter gapped drivers.

This topic has been covered a few times if you do some searching.


Widget

[NickH]

There is a difference in various 375s and 2440s... later and later versions had loser gap tolerances and therefore have lower magnetic flux densities. Ideally the gap is as tight as possible, but issues with old used diaphragms are a much bigger deal than having a tighter gap... and new diaphragms may or may not fit in the older tighter gapped drivers.

This topic has been covered a few times if you do some searching.


Widget

Really. I figured it would have went the other way. Do you know what the span was? How bad did it get? I imagine in the vc gap a little bit goes a long way. A couple mils could equal quite a drop in flux. I suppose.


Ill have to do a little diggin on this. Its interresting.

[Mr. Widget]

Really. I figured it would have went the other way.JBLs were even more of a premium product years ago... Mr. Lansing set the bar very high and it has been lowered very slowly ever since. That said, technology has been something of a leveler... the new high end JBLs completely decimate the earlier models even though building an exact copy of an early Paragon today with brand new 150-4Cs and 375s would likely cost much more than a pair of Everests.


Widget

[NickH]

JBLs were even more of a premium product years ago... Mr. Lansing set the bar very high and it has been lowered very slowly ever since. That said, technology has been something of a leveler... the new high end JBLs completely decimate the earlier models even though building an exact copy of an early Paragon today with brand new 150-4Cs and 375s would likely cost much more than a pair of Everests.


Widget

I bet.

[Mostlydiy]

Im sure the 375s have been discussed several times already, since it is one of the most notorious JBL products. I have read loads of stuff about this driver, but I was unfimiliar with the fact that the VC gap had changed over the years. Its kind of like the D130 which also had a tighter VC gap in the earlier models.

Also off topic but since we are speaking of the D130 :), is there somewere one could get a hold on some T/S parameters for the orignal D130 with paper surrounds? The JBL t/s sheet probably provides information about the D130F. I have a friend that has an early D130F which have a Fs of around 60Hz? Wouldnt be surprised if the D130 hade a higher BL and higher Fs as well because of the tighter VC gap.

/Mostly

[Mostlydiy]

Also off topic but since we are speaking of the D130 :), is there somewere one could get a hold on some T/S parameters for the orignal D130 with paper surrounds? The JBL t/s sheet probably provides information about the D130F. I have a friend that has an early D130F which have a Fs of around 60Hz? Wouldnt be surprised if the D130 hade a higher BL and higher Fs as well because of the tighter VC gap.

No one measured their D130?

[Maron Horonzakz]

The PARAGON is labor intensive,,,Cabinet labor cost is very high..

[NickH]

No one measured their D130?


You can find the ts parameters but I think its for a later version. Not the original one that Jim came up with in the late 40's. But I bet there close.

[Baron030]

It you really want to get the TS parameters right then I am afraid that you are going to need to invest in some woofer testing hardware/software. Take a look at Harvey Gerst's posting (#25), the TS values change over time.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?13648-D130/page2

And if you ever get the drivers re-coned, then you should follow the E-130 TS parameters

Baron030:)

[Mostlydiy]

Thank you baron,

Actually its not that big of a deal, just figured someone could point me to some vintage sheet or whatever, if there was any. I would probably go for this (http://www.soundspeakerrepair.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=SSR&Product_Code=JBL-D130-16-Kit&Category_Code=KIT-JBL) kit with paper surronds if I were to recone them. I think Im going to try them in my midbass horn and if I did, the back chamber volume would have to be tuned to the specific driver which ever Fs it has anyway. I am a bit conserned about the power handling issue though. With a highpass filter at say 80Hz, I see no reason why It wouldn´t be able my 100W OTL at least.

/Mostly

[Baron030]

The PE rating on the D130 is 75 watts, which is pretty much a continuous RMS rating.
And for short periods they can handle a lot more.
But, with an XMAX of only 0.76 mm, if you push them too hard, then they are going to bark (distort).
So, as long as you pay tension as to how they sound and always keep them sounding clean.
You should not run the risk of damaging them.
The other thing you may notice when they are pushed hard is “Power Compression”.
The dynamics change as the voice coils heat up.
But, since you are only talking 100 watts, it’s no sweat.
I once ran my old 030 system with a Crown K1 (350 watts per channel), which did require some very careful monitoring on my part.

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Thiele Small Parameters/Theile Parameters.pdf

Baron030:)

[Mostlydiy]

I thinkt the Pe displayed in the T/S-pdf is for the D130F. The early D130 has Pe in the 20W to 30W range. Actually Im currently using the 2135 in my midbass horns which is the pro version of the D130. It has the the same specs as the D130 exept for a little higher Xmax and Pe. I wouldn´t be surprised if I hade a hard time hearing a difference between the drivers but I will try anyway. I will try the E130 and 2227 also. I know I wont conserned about the power handling then, they are made to be pushed hard :)

/Mostly

[DogBox]

Some good info was done here :http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?11597-D130-vs-D130F-and-D131-vs-D131F

Fills in a few gaps...!

DogBox

[Mostlydiy]

Thanks dogbox,

Im going to measure them myself once I get a hold on some measuring equipment. Im currently using E130 in my midbass horns. I thought they would exel in this application but I actually prefer the 2135 to the E130. Im going to try the 2220A again also I think and the original D130.

/Mostly