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702retrotodd
03-06-2013, 10:18 PM
Hey guys my first time here. Just purchased a mint pair of 4341's How do they hold up to the l300, 4343, 4344? for some reason Kindrick sound prices them higher than all 43xx except the 4345 4350 4355 . What are your thoughts???

4313B
03-07-2013, 06:33 AM
They are harder to find than the others would be my guess for the pricing issue.

Same sound as the 4340 and 4343. 4340 was bi-amp only, 4341 was passive only, 4343 was switchable.

http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/specs/pro-speakers/1974-4340.htm (http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/specs/pro-speakers/1974-4340.htm)

http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/specs/pro-speakers/1977-4343.htm (http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/specs/pro-speakers/1977-4343.htm)

http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/catalogs/1974-pro.htm (http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/catalogs/1974-pro.htm)

http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/catalogs/1974-pro/page06.jpg (http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/catalogs/1974-pro/page06.jpg)

702retrotodd
03-07-2013, 11:53 AM
Cool!! Thanks for the info. I would assume they are not as good as the 4344??? but Im sure they can hold there own. Has anyone heard these before? I wont get them til the end of March. Cant Wait!!!

Mr. Widget
03-07-2013, 12:54 PM
I've heard the 4343 in passive mode a few times... really nice speakers for playing music that comes alive in your room... they won't satisfy an audiophile who is interested in "holographic" "disappearing act" speakers, but if you want dynamic lively sound with excellent extension and at realistic SPLs, you'll love 'em.

A little careful EQ isn't a bad idea, but then many people over do this...


Widget

702retrotodd
03-07-2013, 01:49 PM
Thanks for dropping in Widget. Quick Q if you had to pick what speaker would you go with. L-300 or the 4341's What do you think would be the best for me. i listen to alot of funky jazz Bossa nova Stann Gets, Astrude Gilberto House Music & 70's Funk!!! Low to medium levels Ears can't take loud music anymore Dj-ing years of clubbing.

hjames
03-07-2013, 02:15 PM
Cool!! Thanks for the info. I would assume they are not as good as the 4344??? but Im sure they can hold there own. Has anyone heard these before? I wont get them til the end of March. Cant Wait!!!

I had a pair for a number of years - wrote quite a bit over the years as I cleaned them up, sorted out the drivers and biamped them.
They are slightly smaller than the later 4343s but used the same drivers - you can sometimes find a pair for a nice deal, if you are willing to tinker a bit.

General thought. They came with a 1st generation crossover design that was improved in the 4343s, the 4344s and the 4345s -
There are some discussions on the site about building much improved crossovers for biamp use that are a huge improvement over
the original early 70's design.

Anyway, I just sold mine last summer in a house-cleaning binge!

Here's the thread on my pair
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?16263-Looky-What-I-just-got-4341-Monitors/page1


A brief whatsit thread -
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?16493-4340-amp-4341-references-thread&highlight=4341

Mr. Widget
03-07-2013, 02:51 PM
Thanks for dropping in Widget. Quick Q if you had to pick what speaker would you go with. L-300 or the 4341's What do you think would be the best for me. i listen to alot of funky jazz Bossa nova Stann Gets, Astrude Gilberto House Music & 70's Funk!!! Low to medium levels Ears can't take loud music anymore Dj-ing years of clubbing.Simple answer: 4341

Better answer: Tweaked 4345 DIY or 1400 Array or SAMHF1 based DIY...


Widget

702retrotodd
03-07-2013, 05:25 PM
Thanks again for the info. just so you know....I will BE running my 4341's with a Mintosh restored MC 240. I am also going back & forth on either getting a pair of MC 30's or mc75's. I know the 30's have that magic mid range that everyone talks about. but with the 4341's and a pair of 75's...... better deeper tighter bass, better highs. and last but not least 40 watts vs 85 watts with the 75's.WHAT DO YOU THINK??? OR IS IT A NO BRAINER WITH THE 75'S. I let go of my JBL 4430's hope i did the right thing.

HCSGuy
03-07-2013, 07:04 PM
I let go of my JBL 4430's hope i did the right thing.

Nope. I can't believe you got rid of your old speakers first! I've never hear 4341's, but I have 4343's and 4430's and I'll take the 4430's any day - I like the bass better and they definitely image precisely, which I have a really tough time getting the 4343's to do. They're also much cheaper. I think the 4343's have more slam, and they play louder more effortlessly (I had them set up in my old 10' x 16' office and they would absolutely rock, with no distortion, off of a 60w/ch Adcom GFA-535II amplifier). However, I'm not a loud music guy, so they've been sitting for a while...

Luckily, they do hold their value well, so you can sell them off and try something else without the pain of selling off new speakers:)

702retrotodd
03-07-2013, 07:22 PM
Shoot. Well if I dont like the 4341's as much I will just hold out for some 4344 Or just get some 4435's. My 4430's only just went for only 1,125.00 on ebay. they had the 2421a & 2235H.The most underated speaker IMO. ya! i really luved the. Thanks for the info. Maybe some one will jump in and tell me i did the right thing. I spent 600.00 on my 4430's & 4,000.00 on the 4341's. Luv the way they both look!

702retrotodd
03-07-2013, 07:43 PM
Widget what do think??? Zilch Where are you??? Hjames did I make a big mistake 4430's for 4341's help!!!

grumpy
03-07-2013, 08:26 PM
1) I'd wait and see... you might like the 4341's better... different strokes... they're coming anyway.

2) Don't expect a reply from the Zilchster... He's operating on a different plane now.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?30419-RIP-Zilch&highlight=zilch+rip

702retrotodd
03-07-2013, 08:57 PM
Thanks Grumpy!! Its funny I feel like I know you . I have read so many of your posts In the past year. Finally Getting some blue baffles. Nice to well, here from you!! Now I have just read on a post the 4435 Is far the best for home Period. He claims to have heard every 43xx & 44xx. oh well I feel much better now. Im sure once I turn those baby's up with my MX110 & MC 240 I will be in lUV. thanks Again. Todd

Mr. Widget
03-07-2013, 09:51 PM
Widget what do think???I'm with Grumpy... personally I'd probably go with the 4341s if I had to choose between the two... then again, I don't and I didn't. :D

The 4430s are better at imaging but sound more strained to me, especially if you have later ones with the 2425s... and a dialed in 2405 can sound really good. The top end of the 4430 has never blown me away. Then again people typically turn up their slots to the "too much of a good thing" level.

Now about those amps... I do not think the MC30s or the MC240s can control most 15" JBLs... I've never owned an MC275 but doubt the 275 will control them to my taste either, but lots of people are either deaf or are looking for a far different type of sound than I am. In my rarely humble opinion, ;) these early tube Macs have a very full and fat sounding bass that leans towards the flabby and uncontrolled when powering large full frequency JBLs... they are probably just the ticket for an old 130A or D130 system that have inherently lean bass.

As Grumpy said... they are on their way. Let us know what you discover. :bouncy: (Realize my comments above are for absolutely mint, perfect condition vintage speakers... almost none are, so your impressions can vary significantly from what others have posted.)


Widget

hjames
03-08-2013, 04:30 AM
Widget what do think???
Hjames, did I make a big mistake 4430's for 4341s?? Help!!!

I don't think so - tho in the Vintage JBL system I tend to like the 3 and 4 way systems better than 2 ways - better coverage of the audio spectrum. I think if you want more detailed music, its got to be a 3 or 4 way ... and if you are not a fan of playing music stupid loud, you don't need massive power to run them - tho its always nice to have some power in reserve. My upstairs speakers are a pair of L200 speakers fairly customized - they were 2 ways I've converted to 3 ways and currently run them with a 60w/ch tube amp - not quite the punch of a big SS amp but vocals and mids sound very nice.

The 4341s were in my downstairs system. For most of the time I owned them, I ran my pair in biamp mode.
I used an active crossover set at 290 Hz, and ran the low split side to an amp that ran just the woofers,
and ran the high split side on another amp for those 3 drivers (10 inch mid-bass, mid-horn and HF slot tweeter).

My 4341s came with a 2234 the previous owner subbed in for the woofer -
I swapped in a 2235 within 6 months (and moved the 2234 to my other speakers).
With a dedicated amp for the woofer, the bass was nice and firm and tight.

When I was biamping them, I first used JBL/UREI amps - 6260 for the woofers, 6230s for the high split, and a JBL/UREI M552 active crossover. Maybe did that for a year.

A bit later I swapped those amps for a pair of Adcom GFA-555 amps - roughly 200w/ch
You don't need that much power for the high split, but I liked having matched amp tonality.

These days I'm running the replacement speakers (not biamped) on a B&K St202plus amp - also 200w/ch.

You don't have to crank them way up when you have a larger amp - I never did -
but the bigger amp helps with dynamics and sudden percussive sounds in your music.

jbl_daddy
03-10-2013, 06:31 AM
The sound stage of the 4340 is hard to beat. I use a pair of b380's with the 4340's and that really adds that extra punch. :)
My brother who has Heather's old 4341's uses no subs and is very happy. The 4435's to me have always made the impression they were missing something on the top end.

4313B
03-10-2013, 07:28 AM
The 4435's to me have always made the impression they were missing something on the top end.I guess folks would have to have heard them all side by side in a decent setting.

I had the opportunity on numerous occasions to listen to the then concurrent 43xx and 44xx Series in the same room with the same electronics. The general consensus was that the newer 4430 and 4435 were the better loudspeakers overall (but then, they were intended to be). It should be noted that the original versions did use the aluminum 2421 which was arguably better than the titanium 2425/2426. The 4430 remained in production for something like seventeen years.

I think the new M2 is shaping up to be an excellent replacement for the 4430. It appears to address the areas in which the 4430 was weak.
Luckily, they do hold their value well, so you can sell them off and try something else without the pain of selling off new speakers :)They really do. As they probably should. They are rather rare, and many consider them iconic. The components themselves are quite good and some modern active filters with DSP might go along way in breathing new life into them. From a component cost perspective alone they should be considerably more expensive than a 4430 or 4435.

702retrotodd
03-10-2013, 02:43 PM
Thanks for all the help everone. I will just listen to them for a while. If i feel like they are just not for me. I will sell them. should be able to brake even on them. I would go for the 4435's or just bite the bullet and get some 1400 Array's. Cheers

hjames
03-10-2013, 04:38 PM
Thanks for all the help everone. I will just listen to them for a while.
If i feel like they are just not for me. I will sell them. should be able to brake even on them.
I would go for the 4435's or just bite the bullet and get some 1400 Array's. Cheers

Honestly, give yourself a fair chance to get used to the sound of studio monitors -
they will make flaws in some of your music standout, other music will be sublime ...
but it may take a while to get used to the different sound they have.

702retrotodd
03-12-2013, 05:11 PM
HI Guys , GETTING OFF THE SUBJECT. I JUST RECEIVED MY MAC MX110 TODAY. IT HAS JUST BEEN RESTORED I MUST SAY THE MIDS & HI'S ARE AMAZING BUT THE BASS LITERALLY SUCKS!!! MY C28 SOUNDS JUST AS GOOD WITH AMAZING TIGHT BASS.IS THERE SOMETHING WRONG OR IS THAT JUST TUBE PREAMPS.CANT BELIEVE IT I AM SO DISSAPOINTED. WHAT DO YOU THINK??? BOO HOO!!

702retrotodd
03-12-2013, 06:32 PM
Ok i am getting more use to the sound. I would have to say the bass does'nt suck. Just not as tight as my c28.it will take some time to get use to..... The mids are freakin amazing. Sound is so musical its rediculus. I think it will be a keeper. Very warm . C28 is a slight more brite sounding.

Mr. Widget
03-12-2013, 09:21 PM
Ok i am getting more use to the sound.I think that is what is often mislabeled "breaking in" :D... I've owned several MX110s... I still own a C28. I wouldn't use either if musical accuracy is the goal.

I'm not saying that the vintage Mac gear is without it's appeal, but generally most modern gear walks all over it... though there is that vintage cool factor that lesser gear just doesn't have. The only "cool" vintage piece I have ever owned that could come close to holding it's own against very good modern gear has been the Marantz Model 7 tube preamp... I've been enjoying one for several years now. I'll admit that I have my eye on it's replacement, but it is still pretty hard to beat.


Widget

702retrotodd
03-12-2013, 09:37 PM
Mr Widget nice to here your input. I will tell you that the c28 is more musically detailed than the mx110. The piano up right bass strings all sound better on the c28 (more life like.) maybe it is a break in period like you said. The vocals are a little sweeter on the mx110 but that is it. I really am into the vintage hi-fi, it fits in with my decor. Would luv to have that marantz but $$$$ as you know. What would be a step up from the c28 in mac gear iyo. And how long a break in peroid on the mx110??? Thanks, todd

Mr. Widget
03-12-2013, 09:42 PM
And how long a break in peroid on the mx110???I was joking... my point was that it is typically our getting used to a difference rather than the gear actually breaking in.

I've had several Mac preamps including the C22... I wouldn't buy any of them. They may make a new tube or SS unit that is outstanding, I couldn't say.


Widget

Mr. Widget
03-12-2013, 09:54 PM
I really am into the vintage hi-fi, it fits in with my decor.I know what you mean... I am a sucker for it myself. I guess I'd rather have the pretty museum pieces happily glowing and on display, and some great sounding gear tucked away out of sight and making great music. ;)

Alternatively at some point my hearing may go and then the vintage ears and the vintage sound will be in balance. http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/smile.gif


Widget

702retrotodd
03-12-2013, 10:07 PM
As far as i can tell I will like the C28 better. With me its like i am always trying to find something better. I spend more time buying, trying, recapping units than actually listening to them. i might just sell the mx110 keep the C28 wait for my 4341's to arrive. Ya right until i want a pair Marantz model 2's and that preamp.

702retrotodd
04-01-2013, 12:30 PM
Well i picked up the 4341's.:( the 2121 will need to be refoamed before i will come to any conclusion.unless the refoaming makes a huge change in the sound the 4430 is the winner!!! The 2405 does make a big difference on the 4341's. I will hold my breath & wait.

702retrotodd
04-05-2013, 05:31 PM
Speakers are back and sounding perfect!:) the 10" drivers needed refoaming. The old surrounds were hard as a rock. 4430 vs 4341's. Well i have to say in apperance the 4341's win hands down. Freakin awsome looking. Like looking at farrari. Now to the sound------ 4430 slight edge on bass, huge difference in the hi freqency---- definitly goes to the 4341's. Mids very close 4430 does image better. More air around instruments on the 4341's imo. The 10" 2121's sure are sweet!!! Cost effective goes to the 4430's with out a dought. Which would i choose??? Would i like my 4430's back? You bet! Will i sell the 4341's no way. Unless some 1400 arrays come my way!!! Cheers everyone & thanks.:)

mech986
04-06-2013, 05:23 AM
Speakers are back and sounding perfect!:) the 10" drivers needed refoaming. The old surrounds were hard as a rock. 4430 vs 4341's. Well i have to say in apperance the 4341's win hands down. Freakin awsome looking. Like looking at farrari. Now to the sound------ 4430 slight edge on bass, huge difference in the hi freqency---- definitly goes to the 4341's. Mids very close 4430 does image better. More air around instruments on the 4341's imo. The 10" 2121's sure are sweet!!! Cost effective goes to the 4430's with out a dought. Which would i choose??? Would i like my 4430's back? You bet! Will i sell the 4341's no way. Unless some 1400 arrays come my way!!! Cheers everyone & thanks.:)

nice review,

Now get us some pics!

hjames
04-06-2013, 07:39 AM
Yes, yes - living vicariously - must have PIX!

:useless:


Speakers are back and sounding perfect!:) the 10" drivers needed refoaming. The old surrounds were hard as a rock. 4430 vs 4341's. Well i have to say in apperance the 4341's win hands down. Freakin awsome looking. Like looking at farrari. Now to the sound------ 4430 slight edge on bass, huge difference in the hi freqency---- definitly goes to the 4341's. Mids very close 4430 does image better. More air around instruments on the 4341's imo. The 10" 2121's sure are sweet!!! Cost effective goes to the 4430's with out a dought. Which would i choose??? Would i like my 4430's back? You bet! Will i sell the 4341's no way. Unless some 1400 arrays come my way!!! Cheers everyone & thanks.:)

702retrotodd
04-14-2013, 01:12 PM
I will be posting pics soon. Have a quick Q. Would the jbl 4343B have a better sound than the 4341 due to the newer crossovers?? Or would they be pretty close? Thanks!!! Todd

hjames
04-14-2013, 02:38 PM
I will be posting pics soon. Have a quick Q. Would the jbl 4343B have a better sound than the 4341 due to the newer crossovers?? Or would they be pretty close? Thanks!!! Todd

Think the prevailing attitude is to use the 4345 crossover as its the newest design of all.

702retrotodd
04-14-2013, 04:07 PM
HJames how do I go about obtaining a pair of those 4345 X overs???? Is there anyone that could build me one?? I would make it worth there while!!!

hjames
04-14-2013, 06:33 PM
HJames how do I go about obtaining a pair of those 4345 X overs???? Is there anyone that could build me one?? I would make it worth there while!!!

Darned if I know - never got around to even building a pair for myself,
and now that its summer I'll be enjoying the outdoors instead of bent over a solder station!

But good luck on that!

702retrotodd
04-18-2013, 11:57 AM
Anyone out there that can build me a pair of 4345 x overs for my 4341's:) ??? I would make it worth your while!!! Thanks todd

702retrotodd
05-12-2013, 08:55 AM
4341's are gone just did not cut it for me. Studio 590's are here to stay:). They are bye far the best speaker i have ever heard! You can not imagine the sound that comes out of these speakers. 3 dimesional sound. Imaging is amazing. Mids are so smooth & life like. Bass is so tight and deep it is hard to believe with the 2 8" drivers. Like greg said the 1400 arrays are a little smoother and go a little deeper that is it!!! I highly recommend these speakers. Thanks greg for the heads up i owe you one. Fan freakin fantastic speakers 5 stars. If the think the L-300, 4341 , 4343, L-65 4430, 4435, L-250ti's are good listen to these baby's.

BMWCCA
05-12-2013, 10:03 AM
Studio 590's are here to stay:).

Did you grab them at the $799 price at which they were listed recently?

702retrotodd
05-13-2013, 09:23 AM
I purchased them for 1,400.00. Amazon has them back up to 999.00 each now. Luv the looks of the big blue baffle speakers but 40 years of x 0ver development......................right!!! Cheers!!! PS. I STILL WOULD LUV TO HAVE SOME 4345'S.

mech986
05-13-2013, 07:13 PM
Did you grab them at the $799 price at which they were listed recently?


I purchased them for 1,400.00. Amazon has them back up to 999.00 each now. Luv the looks of the big blue baffle speakers but 40 years of x 0ver development......................right!!! Cheers!!! PS. I STILL WOULD LUV TO HAVE SOME 4345'S.

JBL E-store with free ground shipping:

http://www.jbl.com/estore/jbl/us/products/Studio-590/STUDIO%20590_JBL_US

589175891858919