DIY 4520 bass horn build [Archive] - Lansing Heritage Forums

NickH

03-04-2013, 08:03 AM

Im building a pair of jbl 4520 bass horns. This will be my second speaker project and my first from the ground up build. Im not too versed in carpentry so Im taking my time. Im also only using mdf since nice plywood is expensive. Plus since im not to good at carpentry Im going to trash some wood. Ill feel better about trashing cheaper mdf this some high dollar plywood. I should be done with the first horn soon. All depend on how much energy I have left after work at night. I finished the frame for the first horn. Drew out the plans on the inside of one of the sides then transfered it to the other side by drilling hole through it at verious points. I had the other side clamped underneath that side. Then I just played connect the dots.

I used one side for painting a chassis so thats why theres the black spot on it. These will either be painted or maybe veneered. Havent thought that far ahead. I have a pair of gpa 416-8b driver that Im going to try in them first. But Im not setteld on that yet. I only decided to build the 4520 for the longer horn path. I really didnt need 2 woofers. I might just center the woofers in them and just us one.

Ya I know crappy cellphone camera.

5829558296

Nick

Lee in Montreal

03-04-2013, 01:57 PM

Hmmm... I smell a single JBL 2240H driver for pipe organ music. fs of 30Hz and a Qts of 0.23 and quite able to sustain considerable power. Plenty on eBay for $140.00 with original JBL cones. And make that cabe a few inches narrower for a single 18" That will help with WAF...

NickH

03-04-2013, 04:18 PM

Well a subwoofer is the next project. I wasn't going to use any jbl drivers though. I was going to stick 2 Dayton 15" dvc sub woofers in a 7 or 8 cuft box and tune the port for 20 Hz. There 90 db sensitivity. I was going to feed 250 watts to each woofer. 125 per voice coil. Then sit back until the police arrive, or my house tears itself apart. I did the math. At max excursion they would be moving 21 liters of air. :eek:. That enough to rattle a few teeth out. Who needs fiber in your diet when you can hit the brown note with your home stereo:wtf:.

Sorry couldn't help it.

Hmmm... I smell a single JBL 2240H driver for pipe organ music. fs of 30Hz and a Qts of 0.23 and quite able to sustain considerable power. Plenty on eBay for $140.00 with original JBL cones. And make that cabe a few inches narrower for a single 18" That will help with WAF...

NickH

03-07-2013, 07:33 AM

Got a little work done last night. It was my own idea to put strips on the sides that hold the pieces of the horn flare in place. And something I can shoot a few brads through to hold it in place as the glue dries. Not much but its progress. Im hoping to have one cabinet done this weekend. Hopefully,:D

58330

NickH

03-08-2013, 07:11 PM

Cut the internal panels for horn number 1 today. Hope to put it together tomorrow and post some photos.

Mike F

03-08-2013, 08:12 PM

Shouldn't the baffle be recessed or are you building a narrower version?

NickH

03-09-2013, 07:50 AM

Shouldn't the baffle be recessed or are you building a narrower version?

Good call. Yep its not a exact copy. Its only 24" wide so I moved the baffle to the front. I was originally going to have it on the outside. But I figured this way is better. Its going to be used for home use so those few inches helps. It minimised the risk of me cramming a corner of it into a wall while I'm moving it. I don't want to gave to do any painting when I'm done.

As I'm sure you can tell, I'm no carpenter. I'm quite happy that I've gotten this far. We'll see how I feel after the first ones built.

Lee in Montreal

03-09-2013, 08:10 AM

The recessed front panel has two purposes in my opinion. The first one is to protect the woofers by the surrounding frame. That also allow to esthetically blend in purposefull reinforcing ribs on the sides and bottom of the mouth to keep them from vibrating.

http://www.audioheritage.org/images/jbl/photos/pro-speakers/d55050.jpg

http://www.lajazz.us/audio/JBL-4520/JBL-4520_001.jpg (http://www.audioheritage.org/images/jbl/photos/pro-speakers/d55050.jpg)

NickH

03-09-2013, 09:35 AM

I'm probably going to use a piece of trim around the edge. Like the mister Carl Huff mentioned in #52 in your waldorf thread. By the way, that was the hard discussion to make. Build a waldorf/ imperial or the 4520. I decided on the 4520 for size reasons. But this is my first start from scratch build. So maybe the imperial will be next.

NickH

03-11-2013, 06:10 AM

58356

Ive got the first cabinet put together. The picture is without the back on. Put that on the next day. Just a little more to do. Got to cut the holes for the drives and a jack plate. I think Ill put the where jbl did. On top.

NickH

03-12-2013, 06:28 AM

58373

This is as of last night. Put the driver in to chect fit and to see how it would look. I have to solder wires to the terminal plate. I used the same spot jbl did and put the on top of the cabinet. Ill do a little testing before I start to paint it with hammer tone black.

NickH

03-12-2013, 08:16 PM

Tested the horn out. Seems to stay loaded down to 33hz. I was driving them with a 250 watt and. Its was crazy loud. I could feel it in my chest. It was making the stuff in my garage make all sorts of crazy noise. All and all not bad. I'll try it with a smaller amp to see how it performs tomorrow. Then I'll start to paint it.

Nick

NickH

03-14-2013, 08:12 AM

intercity125

03-14-2013, 09:32 AM

Well I didn't buy a table saw. I found a option that takes up less real estate. I bought a porter cable circ saw and a attachable fence made by kreg. Its called rip cut.

It has a 24 inch capacity so it can do anything on a sheet of plywood.

Nick

Hey Nick,

Let us know how that Rip-Cut guide works. Sounds like something I could use to make all the cuts on the wood for my Onken's. Cheers!

Willy

NickH

03-14-2013, 07:59 PM

Hey Nick,

Let us know how that Rip-Cut guide works. Sounds like something I could use to make all the cuts on the wood for my Onken's. Cheers!

Willy

Hey Willy,

I got a porter cable saw. A 5600rpm one with a mag housing and a cast shoe. Its a nice saw. First one I've ever bought. Figured its more of a need owning a house and all. I put together the rip cut. Its pretty simple. Doesn't cost that much either. 36 bucks at Lowe's. I didn't have a chance to test it though. Its a little tricky getting it on my saw. I imagine it would have been easier with a stamped shoe saw. I have my fathers old saw so maybe I'll make it a dedicated saw for it. Its an old craftsman 7" heavy but good. That is if it hasn't been thrown out.

Anyway I brought down one of my 2380's with a 2445 on it down and hooked it up with a cross over off a 4638th. Played all sorts of stuff through it. I was getting SPL levels of a little over 120 db and it sounded amazing. Didn't have a tweeter one it but I could hardly tell. I don't think I ever maxed out the amp. Didn't hear any signs of distress. Well at least from the speakers. The house was a rock'en though. Now I'm prepping it for paint. Don't think I'm putting a toe kick on it.

I'm very happy with those parts express woofers though. For being 75 a pop you can't beat them.

Nick

intercity125

03-16-2013, 07:52 AM

Hey Willy,

I got a porter cable saw. A 5600rpm one with a mag housing and a cast shoe. Its a nice saw. First one I've ever bought. Figured its more of a need owning a house and all. I put together the rip cut. Its pretty simple. Doesn't cost that much either. 36 bucks at Lowe's. I didn't have a chance to test it though. Its a little tricky getting it on my saw. I imagine it would have been easier with a stamped shoe saw. I have my fathers old saw so maybe I'll make it a dedicated saw for it. Its an old craftsman 7" heavy but good. That is if it hasn't been thrown out.

Anyway I brought down one of my 2380's with a 2445 on it down and hooked it up with a cross over off a 4638th. Played all sorts of stuff through it. I was getting SPL levels of a little over 120 db and it sounded amazing. Didn't have a tweeter one it but I could hardly tell. I don't think I ever maxed out the amp. Didn't hear any signs of distress. Well at least from the speakers. The house was a rock'en though. Now I'm prepping it for paint. Don't think I'm putting a toe kick on it.

I'm very happy with those parts express woofers though. For being 75 a pop you can't beat them.

Nick

Hey Nick,

Yeah, I went out and bought me a new DeWalt circular saw from Lowe's, too. Like you I wanted a table saw, but the offerings at Home Depot and Lowe's were just not that great. Sure, they were good enough for simple cuts, but were just not capable of handeling sheet goods. For that you'd need a big Delta industrial size table saw with a 6-foot top, but I'm not about to throw down $2K plus for something like that, as much as I'd love to have one. No, a good circular saw, square, and guide rail will have to suffice.

Glad to hear the system is sounding so good. That is some incredible SPL. What is the model number of the PE woofers you have?

Willy

more10

03-16-2013, 08:40 AM

NickH

03-16-2013, 10:12 AM

I like your build Nick

With a Makita SP6000K and guide rail you can do pretty much:

58416

I tried the Metabo plunge saw but it wasn´t any good. The Makita is almost as good as a Festool.

The guide rail can be used with a router using and adaptor.

I've been thinking about the sheppach plunge saw. Ifs affordable. Haven't looked at the Makita. The thing that's stopped me it, what the difference between that and using a guide rail.

I just can't get why there so expensive. And the cost of the festool is insane.

Hey Willy,

I looked at a dewalt but I've just never liked them. Can't say why. Maybe its the safety yellow,lol. I was looking at two table saws. A Rockwell or ryobi. They both had table extensions. The Rockwell was 430 and the ryobi was 200 and 300. If I was to buy a big one it was I would probably buy a grizzly.

The woofer is a pa380-8. I can't recommend the enough. I love them. They have a low fs, of 22.9. The cone weight is a little high but that's expected with the fs.

I was worried about using these above 150hz since its a direct radiator. But I'm very happy with them. But I'll definitely be going active for the 800hz point. Running the woofers with individual amps. Tubes for the tops.

Nick

intercity125

03-17-2013, 07:40 AM

I've been thinking about the sheppach plunge saw. Ifs affordable. Haven't looked at the Makita. The thing that's stopped me it, what the difference between that and using a guide rail.

I just can't get why there so expensive. And the cost of the festool is insane.

Hey Willy,

I looked at a dewalt but I've just never liked them. Can't say why. Maybe its the safety yellow,lol. I was looking at two table saws. A Rockwell or ryobi. They both had table extensions. The Rockwell was 430 and the ryobi was 200 and 300. If I was to buy a big one it was I would probably buy a grizzly.

The woofer is a pa380-8. I can't recommend the enough. I love them. They have a low fs, of 22.9. The cone weight is a little high but that's expected with the fs.

I was worried about using these above 150hz since its a direct radiator. But I'm very happy with them. But I'll definitely be going active for the 800hz point. Running the woofers with individual amps. Tubes for the tops.

Nick

Hey Nick,

Thanks for the PN on those woofers. Great specs, and you cannot beat the price. Yeah, some of those guide-rail systems are a bit over priced. Still, I would love to have one. One company I have had my eye on for a while is EurakaZone. They make the "EZ" system of guide-rail products. They'll still cost a bit, but the quality is very high. If I were to go all out I'd get their EZ-One bench set-up. It's all one would need to knock down sheet goods quickly and easily; however, it costs $1100.00!!! The Makita that More10 linked in his post looks promising, and not a bad price considering.

I see a lot of guide-rail set-ups but few of them have extensions that allow stops for multiple cross or rip-cuts in large panels (48-inches). There's a few out there, alright, but they're gonna cost you. That's the most important thing for me, right now, as I have to make many cuts the same dimension. It doesn't matter how many times I measure, square, or set up a guide-rail, I can never get two boards to be cut the exact same length. I may only be off by fractions but it's not as precise as a mechanical devise would allow. I suppose this is why we end up paying out for one of those systems mentioned above. Maybe someday.

How's the painting coming along?

Willy

NickH

03-18-2013, 08:26 PM

Hey Willy,

ya they arent bad. The only thing that could make them better is a cast basket. But I'm not trying to put them into geo synchronous orbit so they should be good. I think they sound really nice to boot.

I'll stick with my extruded aluminum guide rail/ fence. Its a lot cheaper then one of those saw and much easier to store. I have other thing I want to spend money on then another saw. I bought 2 of them last weekend so that's enough.

Ya I got the first coat of hammer tone paint on tonight. That stuff doesn't go on easy. It seems to go on thick and its very sticky. Bit of the roller kept getting stuck to the surface of the cabinet too. The mdf just sucks it up too. Well see how it looks after the second coat. Kinda wish I would have not gotten fancy with it and just used latex paint. But no, just had to get fancy. Spraying it on would probably be a better way but I don't want to deal with the mess. Plus I'd need to buy a gun and a respirator. I had one but I can't seem to find it now. But that's what happens when you move across the country again.

Hey Nick,

Thanks for the PN on those woofers. Great specs, and you cannot beat the price. Yeah, some of those guide-rail systems are a bit over priced. Still, I would love to have one. One company I have had my eye on for a while is EurakaZone. They make the "EZ" system of guide-rail products. They'll still cost a bit, but the quality is very high. If I were to go all out I'd get their EZ-One bench set-up. It's all one would need to knock down sheet goods quickly and easily; however, it costs $1100.00!!! The Makita that More10 linked in his post looks promising, and not a bad price considering.

I see a lot of guide-rail set-ups but few of them have extensions that allow stops for multiple cross or rip-cuts in large panels (48-inches). There's a few out there, alright, but they're gonna cost you. That's the most important thing for me, right now, as I have to make many cuts the same dimension. It doesn't matter how many times I measure, square, or set up a guide-rail, I can never get two boards to be cut the exact same length. I may only be off by fractions but it's not as precise as a mechanical devise would allow. I suppose this is why we end up paying out for one of those systems mentioned above. Maybe someday.

How's the painting coming along?

Willy

NickH

03-19-2013, 05:04 PM

Just an fyi, never use a nap roller with hammer tone paint. Use a foam one. Just trust me on this one.

more10

03-20-2013, 01:56 AM

I can never get two boards to be cut the exact same length.

58447

I use a flush trim bit on a router to make one piece exactly the same as another.

I love this tool :-)

Mårten

NickH

03-20-2013, 06:56 AM

58447

I use a flush trim bit on a router to make one piece exactly the same as another.

I love this tool :-)

Mårten

Hey Marten,

I actually have that bit in my router. Well close to it. The guide bearing is on the shaft end though. I havent used a router free hand yet. My issue with board not being exact is just not measureing the kerf of the blade perfectly. But im improving. I havent really done much of this stuff before so Im learning as I go. And then there the whole tast of fractional measuring. I do tons of measurements at work but its not fractional. I use calipers and micrometers so all me work stuff is to the thousands decimal place. I work with metals. Machined components and stuff.

Painted last night when I got home from work. Just a little more to do tonight. I havent taken a new picture yet though. This one is when I was testing them out last tuesday.

58451

more10

03-20-2013, 08:02 AM

The guide bearing is on the shaft end though. I havent used a router free hand yet.

With the bearing on the other end you can flush trim a cabinet. You don't need to cut all pieces exactly.

If you buy a router, go for a light with weak motor. If you fail using a strong motor you can hurt yourself seriously. Get some practice with a small one before getting a big one.

intercity125

03-20-2013, 09:18 AM

58447

I use a flush trim bit on a router to make one piece exactly the same as another.

I love this tool :-)

Mårten

Hey Marten,

That's a very good idea! I have a flush mount bit for my laminate trimmer, but now I am going to have to get me a larger bit to go with my big router. Thanks!

Willy

NickH

03-20-2013, 10:30 AM

I needed a reason to buy a trim router, LOL.

Ive just got a big one. But it lives in my route table at the moment. Not that its real hard to take out.

The last time I used it free hand was when I was building the plinth for my turntable. I bought it just for that. Ive been using it more recently to cut pieces for a diy multicell horn. Its turned into a multi year project.

Nick

NickH

03-20-2013, 05:58 PM

Here's 2 photos with paint on them.

Nick

NickH

03-21-2013, 06:29 AM

I think I did something stupid last night. I was using a program on the laptop to create test tones. The audio dac in the laptop is by no means perfect. I had the 2445's hooked up to it when I was doing this. This was some high frequencies in the tone. I didnt think anything of it at the time. But afterwards I was playing some tunes through it and was noticing some really nasty distortion from the 2445's. These have 375 diaphragms in them. Im thinking the voice coil got a little warm and swelled.

Ill take the diaphragm out tonight and see if I can repair my stupidity. Because I know these are very hard to replace.

Nick

more10

03-21-2013, 07:43 AM

Cab looks really nice!

Too bad about the diaphragms. You didn't have a highpass filter on them? I always put a capacitor in series to protect from over excursion if my active filter fails.

NickH

03-21-2013, 09:38 AM

Cab looks really nice!

Too bad about the diaphragms. You didn't have a highpass filter on them? I always put a capacitor in series to protect from over excursion if my active filter fails.

There was. I think there was a higher component produced by the dac on the computer. Ill know more tonight when I take them off. Im hoping its fixable.

Thanks. There not perfect. I will never try to roll on hammer tone paint after this project though.

Nick

NickH

03-22-2013, 06:32 AM

Oh im a lucky duck. I pulled the diaphragm yesterday. No burns on it. It looked fine. I checked the vc gap and could see some junk in there. Cleaning it and put the phragm back in. Sounds great again.

Started on the next step for these which is the corssover. Im going to run these up to 800hz and it will be active.

So I coldered up the tube active crossover.
This is the crossover. Ill connect it to a transformer and test it out tonight.
58473

NickH

03-25-2013, 06:28 AM

Got the cabinet upstairs on Saturday. Oh my gosh. Why did I build these monsters. Once I got it up stairs I thought I was going to die. Of course I did it back wards. I had the heavy end at the top. Next time Ill have the heavy end on the low end. But we basically sled it up the star. Or rather I pulled it and my friend kept it from sliding back down and through a wall. I figured there would be a massive difference between the two. There is but the sound seem to meld together quite well. Luckily I don't seem to have any real issues with standing wave. The exact opposite actually. The bass seems to be dampened. I haven't done anything to the room as far as treatments. Theres not much in it either. We still have furniture to buy, LOL. But it is carpeted and not square so that helps. It does have a very quick echo. But I'm guessing thats because theres nothing on the walls to speak of.

58490

Now to start the next horn. Once thats done I think its horn building time.

Nick

1audiohack

03-25-2013, 08:57 AM

We still have furniture to buy, LOL.Now to start the next horn. Once thats done I think its horn building time.NickThats what I like! A man with priorities. What does your future ex wife think of all this? :p

more10

03-25-2013, 09:36 AM

So I coldered up the tube active crossover.
This is the crossover. Ill connect it to a transformer and test it out tonight.

I would like to know more about the crossover.

NickH

03-25-2013, 10:33 AM

Thats what I like! A man with priorities. What does your future ex wife think of all this? :p

LOL, Thats funny. She likes it and soon to be, them. She thinks this setup sounds better then the a7's. And thats just in mono action. Ive cut loose all my other hobby so shedoesn'tt mind my audio hobby in the least. She just wants her side of the garage back :D.

We have been in this house since November. The only real furniture we need is for the game room. So its not like we're sitting on pizza boxes or something, LOL.
Its just upstairs in the game room is the one room left. Not empty. Theres my system. A drum set, tread mill, and tv. Oh and some miscellaneous audio paraphernalia.

As far as crossovers. Its a crossover off a jbl theater 2 way cabinet. I think its from a 4670. Just 800hz 4 ohm woofer and 8 mids. Its just an impromptu setup still. Once I get the other cabinet up here Ill start thinking about a shelf for my gear. But for the finI'm crossover Im not sure whI'm direction im going to go. I might use a active crossover for the 800hz point and passive for the mids and highs. Or I might just go passive all the way. Not sure, but it will probably bhaven'tve.

I havent cranked it up while its beI'm in the house. Im not a person insanelykes musI'm insanly loud. Im happy in the 90 db range though. But I did when it was in the garWill. Crazy loud. Wil an 180 watt amp it will go well into the 120 db range.

It really makes pipe organ music come alive. Shacks the house at low volumes.

More10, Its a crossover designed by Peter Millett. Its a 3 pole salen key filter that uses 12au7's or 12bh7a twin triode tubes. I was going to get it running this weekend but realized the twouldn'tmer I wanted to use wouldnt work.

So I have to buy one for it.

NickH

04-04-2013, 06:26 AM

Well its that time of year again here in Texas. Spring, which brings the pine pollen. Its really put a damper on me getting the second horn built. By the time I get home from work I dont feel like working in the garage.

We have got a lot of rain over the last few days and the temp has dropped so hopefully the weekend will be good. Ive got a lot of work to do.

As for the built horn there are some issues. Not with the horn but the room. Im getting a wicked bass nullification. Ive moved them away from the wall and Ive moved toward them. Its helped but the output is no where near what it should be. Standing right in front of them is like a earthquake at high output. Makes the whole hose shake at high volume. So I know there working right. Im thinking its about time for some traps.

Nick

NickH

04-06-2013, 07:24 PM

intercity125

04-07-2013, 08:13 AM

Finally started cutting mdf on horn number 2 today. I also tested the rip cut. It actually works pretty well. You have to push from both ends of the guide. I should be able to cut all the internal pieces and maybe get some parts glued and screwed.

Hey Nick,

Glad to hear the Rip-Cut works good. Yeah, Oak was kicking my butt the past couple of weeks here, too. The rain helped to keep things down but sometimes that just stirs things up even more. It's going to be a rough one this summer!

Started really working on the Onken/Altec's this week. Took my 511B's to a friends and used his sand-blaster to strip off all the old paint. I haven't decided whether or not I want to just paint the horns myself or take them to be powder-coated. I'll leave that for last while I weigh the options.

Decided to forgo using my circular saw and guide in favor of just hauling my wood off to be professionally cut. Doing that this Wed, so I will be able to begin construction on the Onken cabinets. If I can get my son to let me borrow his camera I'll snap some pics and post them in another thread.

Have you sorted out the bass issue you were experiencing? Just a thought, but is your X-over in the correct phase? Sometimes when wired out of phase it can have that effect. Just thinking out loud.

Willy

NickH

04-07-2013, 05:04 PM

Hey Willy,

I've done some more cutting today. I was going yo try and get all the my pieces cut today. I cut all the pieces today and should have it put together by next weekend.

If I was working with that supper thick stuff you are I think I would do the same.

as for the null in my @ss I've improved it but its not perfect. I'm not going to get carried away until the second horn is built and upstairs. Then I'll move things around to optimise the lows. There is more furniture to be bought and put in upstairs and I think that will help. I originally though a out of phase issues with the lows but after switching things around there was no change. I then started moving things and got an improvement. That when I started reading up on it and figured out my problem.

But its coming along, slowly but surely.

Mostlydiy

04-09-2013, 02:22 AM

Nice work Nick!

If you didnt experience that "kick" bass issue in your garage than its probably the room. Back loaded horn enclosures do struggle with some nullification problems in the upper bass though, but not to the extent of which you describe.

I dont know anything about the drivers that you are using. Are you considering changing them to JBL drivers in the future? I believe the bass will change character rather much depending on what drivers you are using.

/Mostly

NickH

04-09-2013, 06:25 AM

58603

Here is number 2 as of last night. Should have it complete by this weekend if things go smoothly.

Hey Mostly,
Thanks. Im familar with the dips in response do to the recombination of the front and back waves off the driver. When testing it in my garage I had no problems. It was great. Its when they went upstairs to ther permanent home is when the problems started. Its improved but hasn't been completely remedied. Once this one is finished and upstairs I will start working on the room. Until that happens I think it would be a bad idea to try and get into the problem since it could change completely once the second horn is there. I am planning on mosing them to the other side of the wall there currently on once it ther though.

Then Im going to start using rew for help.

Nick

Mostlydiy

04-09-2013, 06:35 AM

I think it would be a bad idea to try and get into the problem since it could change completely once the second horn is there

Sounds reasonable. I believe thats why people suggest using two subwoofers instead of one, easier to counter room acustic problems.

/Mostly

NickH

04-09-2013, 06:45 AM

Sounds reasonable. I believe thats why people suggest using two subwoofers instead of one, easier to counter room acustic problems.

/Mostly

Thats next. But ya Ive heard the same thing. It wont have to cover much of the spectrum. Just 30hz and down. I would like to go to 15hz. Ive got some ideas for a bandpass cabinet I modeled on winisd. I need to try and build some shelves first. To put my gear on so it's not just sitting on the floor. No more impromptu setup ,LOL.

Nick

Mostlydiy

04-09-2013, 06:53 AM

Mostlydiy

04-09-2013, 07:02 AM

By the way, shelves are way over hyped... :D

58604

NickH

04-09-2013, 10:25 AM

By the way, shelves are way over hyped... :D

58604

Thats funny. Great minds think alike you know :D

more10

04-09-2013, 01:44 PM

Why don´t you use a few extra screws when fastening those shelves. Double 4520 will make thinks fall down from the walls

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/106944188/2013-03-25 20.20.27.mp4

And fences at the edge of the shelves.

Sorry for the spam :D

NickH

04-09-2013, 07:12 PM

Why don´t you use a few extra screws when fastening those shelves. Double 4520 will make thinks fall down from the walls :)

15 to 30Hz that sure is ULF... I suppose you will be using whose subs for HT and gaming and not so much for music

/Mostly

3 words, pipe organ music. I'm really getting into it. But it will never see gaming or ht service. Tunes are it.

I got it pretty much together. Just the back and the last reflector left. The cutting the driver holes and jack plate. Then paint.

I'll post pics tomorrow morning.

NickH

04-10-2013, 06:46 AM

5860658607

Heres 2 pics of the work I did last night. I must say that this one is going together much easier then the first. Buying a good circ saw really helped. Much more powerful and accurite then the cheap craftsman I was using. Also the rip cut works great. It cut so much time off the build.

Hopefully Ill finish it tonight. Then I still have to paint it. Im not going to put the driver in it until its upstairs this time.

Nick

Mostlydiy

04-10-2013, 06:52 AM

Im not going to put the driver in it until its upstairs this time.

Good thinking! :)

NickH

04-10-2013, 07:35 AM

Good thinking! :)

Made that mistake the first time.:slink:

intercity125

04-10-2013, 01:20 PM

NickH

04-10-2013, 07:36 PM

Hey Nick,

You are jamming! I wish I had half your enthusiasm and diligence; I'd be a lot further along on my Onken/Altec project if I were. On a positive note, I did manage to haul off all my wood and have it cut to size today. 30 minutes on a 12" Grizzly industrial table saw and it was done. It would have taken me the better part of a day to do the same with just the circular saw and guide, perhaps quicker if I had a Rip-Cut like you. This weekend I will begin drilling holes for dowels and lining everything up. I guess I got me a project now!

I meant to ask, are you using the PL Premium exclusively on the horns or are you also using some wood glue?

Willy

12 minutes eh. Must be a beast. I'd love to have one of those big cabinet shop saws. It would take up my whole garage. Not to mention the cost. Grizzly makes nice stuff for the cost. I ordered their the drill press mills at work. Great machine. I'm planning on buying one of there tables. Can't beat there prices. Wood to industrial work bench table for less then a grand.

As for the pl premium yes for the most part. I did use some pva on the corner joints on the frame. Seems to work better with the biscuits.I can't say enough good about that rip cut. It probably shaved a days work off the project in setting up the cuts alone. Best 30 buck I've ever spent.

the only thing left to do on the horn is just the hole for the jack plate and mount it. Then paint and put in the rock wool. I'll see if I can tell any difference between the two. The other horn has fiber glass in it.

If I'm lucky I'll have it upstairs this weekend. I'm going to try sand loading them too. Something I read the Horn man him self talk about Dr Bruce Edgar. Putting a bag of sand on the bottom of the horn mouth is suppose to help them out. Don't really see how. But I figure that a bag of sand is cheap enough.

I'll post a pic in the morning.

NickH

04-11-2013, 06:38 AM

58622

Heres the work as of last night. All thats left is to cut the hole for the jack plate, sand and paint. Then the hard work starts. I have to move it upstairs, LOL.

Nick

NickH

04-12-2013, 07:27 PM

First coat of paint is on. Hope to have the upstairs by Sunday.

If I can get a hand that is.

Lee in Montreal

04-13-2013, 05:23 AM

NickH

04-18-2013, 10:55 AM

Hi Nick. Good work.

You are an Altec A7 guy, right? So you will understand if I mentionned that you should definitely reinforce/rib/brace that rear panel on your 4520. At around 36" x 48" it is a large flat surface that will resonate at nothing. This resonance is lost energy. ;)

I know :o:. I havent done it yet. Im not going to go the normal route though. Im going to use some metal angle iron on them and be done with it. Just havent done it yet.

I do have some alnico frams on the way that will be re coned as e130's. Ill probably do 2 at first to see how I like them in the horns. If I do Ill do the other one. I still need one more frame though. At the moment Ive got 1 d140f and 2 late d130's. Ill probably try and get another d140f fram to use. There close enoung that I wont worry when they have the same moving assemble.

But If I dont like the e130's in them Ill put 2235 cones in them and have them work the bottom. But that a ways away still.

Im renting a appliance dolly tonight. Im hoping I can get it upstairs. I tried the other night by myself but It wants happening. I was trying to slide it up the stairs. But ya it was a stupid thing to try. Im lucky I didnt take out a wall or hurt myself, LOL.

Live and learn, and dont be impatient.

ivica

04-19-2013, 07:03 AM

I know :o:. I havent done it yet. Im not going to go the normal route though. Im going to use some metal angle iron on them and be done with it. Just havent done it yet.

I do have some alnico frams on the way that will be re coned as e130's. Ill probably do 2 at first to see how I like them in the horns. If I do Ill do the other one. I still need one more frame though. At the moment Ive got 1 d140f and 2 late d130's. Ill probably try and get another d140f fram to use. There close enoung that I wont worry when they have the same moving assemble.

But If I dont like the e130's in them Ill put 2235 cones in them and have them work the bottom. But that a ways away still.

Im renting a appliance dolly tonight. Im hoping I can get it upstairs. I tried the other night by myself but It wants happening. I was trying to slide it up the stairs. But ya it was a stupid thing to try. Im lucky I didnt take out a wall or hurt myself, LOL.

Live and learn, and dont be impatient.

Hi NickH,

1. I am not sure that E130 cone would be strong enough in horn 'loading'. May be better E140 cone.
2. As You have mentioned You are planing to use AlNiCo frames. Be aware that such drivers are sensitive to demagnetization if driven hard ( I can guess over 100W, even in very short time period), so may be better to use E130/140 frames ( ferrite magnet )

Regards
ivica

NickH

04-19-2013, 02:49 PM

Hi Ivica,

Thanks for the concern. The d130 was one of the stock driver use in the bass horn so I'm betting there won't be much of a issue. I'm looking to use them with a single ended tube amp so there won't be a lot of power on them. Maybe 60 watts max. But still probably be more like 30 watts.

Nick

Hi NickH,

1. I am not sure that E130 cone would be strong enough in horn 'loading'. May be better E140 cone.
2. As You have mentioned You are planing to use AlNiCo frames. Be aware that such drivers are sensitive to demagnetization if driven hard ( I can guess over 100W, even in very short time period), so may be better to use E130/140 frames ( ferrite magnet )

Regards
ivica

Wardsweb

04-20-2013, 06:17 AM

Hey Nick, really nice build you got going on there. In your earlier picture with the two different horns in the room, how big is that room? How far back do you typically listen?

NickH

04-20-2013, 08:17 AM

Hey Nick, really nice build you got going on there. In your earlier picture with the two different horns in the room, how big is that room? How far back do you typically listen?

Hi Luther,

how's it going? Ya that an interim picture. I built one bass horn at a time. I finally got the second up there last night. The room is a pretty good size. Its a little over 30 feet deep. But its still pretty empty at the moment. I'm sitting about 8 feet back. They are not centered along the short wall

The bass definitely improved with the second 4520. I'm going to do some re arranging today though.

I did get a d140 in yesterday. And wouldn't you know it, the frame is just a tad too big. So I'll have to open the holes in the horns a little. Maybe only by 1/8" though.

I'm looking into the 150-4c and the e145 since that the driver that went in the c550 originally and the 145 was the predecessor of it. I just need to find the dimension for the extension ring for the front flange.
And then winding field coils for them next. Should be fun. But not easy, lol.

I'll post some pictures soon.

Nick

NickH

04-22-2013, 08:27 PM

I'm guessing the closest I can get to the original drivers for these are some d130's. I'll use put d130 cone kits in the frames I have. Then I'll put a coating of pva diluted with water or damar varnish. Then glue a ring of copper wire under the dustcap to simulate a copper voice coil.

That will be the closest I can get to an original 130a. Since there no way in hell I'll ever own 2 pair of 150's, lol.

Let me know if this is a stupid idea or not.

Nick

NickH

04-29-2013, 06:40 AM

I coated the drivers in one horn this weekend. I used mod podge which is a pva glue for puzzles. It has a matte finish so you can hardly tell I did anything. Im hoping it will just smooth things out a bit. I couldnt tell if I noticed a change. Only did one coat and it was very light at that.

I also did some measurements of the horns. Now these are very on the fly measurements and with a non calibrated mic. But it seems these horns dont rool off until 200 hz. I had the mic in the mouth of the horn. It also seem that the dont unload until about 25 to 28 hertz. No these are about 4: taller then the c550/4520's. Im wondering if the little increase in mouth area is whats accounting for this. But other then that the horns seem pretty flat for scoops. Theres also a bit of a dip at 80 hz.

Im not really putting much stock in these as I did it indoors. I did do a couple measuremtns in the room. It wasnt pretty. Which I knew it wouldnt be. But I also had a lot of background clutter/noise.

Nick

Mostlydiy

05-06-2013, 09:01 PM

Hey how are things going?

All caught up in listening sessions I guess :)

/Mostly

NickH

05-07-2013, 03:22 PM

Hey how are things going?

All caught up in listening sessions I guess :)

/Mostly

Lol. Working on it. I've been toying with things here and there. Thank to a fellow forum member I've got the last alnico frame I need for the horns. Still not entirely sure what cones I'll use though.

Of the list of options, e130s are at the top. I've also been trying to iron the bugs out of my tube active crossover. Still have some hum in it. Need to figure out if its from the supply or a ground loop. I'm thinking ground loop though. I clamped on a 680 mfd capacitor on the supply and there was no change in hum. So maybe I play with it but I doubt it. I spent my whole day in a pipe yard inspecting pipe. I just want to do nothing right now, lol.

I'll post the progress when I've got some.

NickH

05-13-2013, 06:46 AM

Last night I finally got one of my newly designed passive crossover in place. I hooked it up with clip leads as a temporary setup. I wanted to test it out first before I made a more permanent setup. It was kinda spooky what happened when it started working, I put it on the right channel. The left channel still had the jbl crossover on it. The woofer has second order linkwitz alignment. The tweeter is just a 3mfd capacitor in series with the driver.

When I first hooked everything up it sounded like crap. The mids where gone and the horn was extremelyly honky. At first I thought it was just the pads where out of whack with the necrossoverer. I kept tweaking them but could'nt get it right and got irritateded at it. So I walked away from it for a bit. Started thinking that I had something hooked up wrong in the band pass. When I went back to it and I sure enough did. I was acting like a notch filter instead of a bandpass. Fixed that and started listening.

This is when it got kind of spookey. The right speaker disappeared in the image. The jbl croosover on the thing never imaged woth a crap before. Maybe a little bit but not much. But with the new crossover the image instatntly shifted to center. But its smeared from center to left. It like there was no sound coming from the right channel even though there was. Like I moved the speaker over by a couple of feet.

All and all I think these corossovers will work so I just need to build a more permanent setup now.

Nick

Lee in Montreal

05-13-2013, 07:22 AM

Phase problem? 12db (180° dephasing ) meeting 6db (90° dephasing) in a non-time-aligned drivers system?

That's where digital crossovers come very handy ;)

NickH

05-13-2013, 07:28 AM

Phase problem? 12db (180° dephasing ) meeting 6db (90° dephasing) in a non-time-aligned drivers system?

That's where digital crossovers come very handy ;)

Ah nope. The bandpass filter hooked up backwards. It was acting like a notch instead. So it was filtering out evenrything between 800hz and 7khz. Im planning on trying a active cross. I had one Ive been working on but its still has some hum in it.

Nick

more10

05-14-2013, 03:26 PM

NickH

05-15-2013, 08:16 AM

I am using miniDSP 4x10 HD (http://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-4x10-hd) on my 4530. I invert the bass horn and delay the rest by the horn length. Much better kick! :D

I cross the 4530 below the backloaded dip at 150. I am using the miniDSP parametric EQ to fix the rising response on my 2220A as well as CD compensate the 2370.

Ive often thought about going this route. But Im trying to keep things as simple as possible. It might come to this but Im going to stick with passive crossovers for the moment. Ive put one in and it seems to be doing ok. I thought about crossing the horns over where they roll off but that would mean going to a 4 way system and that just another layer of complexity that I dont want. I guess you could say this is a poor mans attempt at a vintage jbl theater system.

Nick

more10

05-15-2013, 03:13 PM

As an experiment, reverse polarity of the bass horns and place your tops one horn length in front of them.

Lee in Montreal

05-15-2013, 03:23 PM

Reversing the polarity of the woofers doesn't affect it's response by itself. Therefore, feeling "more kick" is most likely substance-induced ;) The horn part of the cabinet is a filter. 120Hz and down goes thru the horn and the wave is reversed as it comes from the back of the woofer. 120Hz and up comes from the front of the woofer and must be in phase with the medium driver. The 120Hz dipin response is the phase cancellation between the woofer and the horn.

more10

05-15-2013, 03:56 PM

The intention of reversing the polarity of the horns is to use the horn as the front, and then time align this front with the top systems. Oh, my mistake, you need to place the horns one horn length in front of the top systems to time align them.

Lee in Montreal

05-15-2013, 04:32 PM

... you need to place the horns one horn length in front of the top systems to time align them.

On top portion of the spectrum, drivers shall be physically aligned and in phase. So, yes, the sounds starts at the same time and same location. But that's only the theory. Add passive crossovers and you add delays. 6db filter is 90° delay, 12db is 180° delay. I did the testing adding and removing caps on my 2360 and checking timing corrections with my active crossovers. So, on top of the theory, you may want to add some empirical experimentation. Test by ears and with a mike.

more10

05-16-2013, 01:54 AM

Filters add phase shift, not delays. The shift is mostly in the stopband.

And of course, the time alignment I proposted only works if your top systems go down to the first dip in the response, 120 that is.

Lee in Montreal

05-16-2013, 04:23 AM

Filters add phase shift, not delays. The shift is mostly in the stopband.

Correct.

NickH

05-16-2013, 06:44 AM

Is the phase shift of the 4520 documented? Or does anyone know it. I know I could calculate it, but I dont feel like reinventing the wheel if its been done.

Im sure its more the 90 degrees of shift.

Nick

Lee in Montreal

05-16-2013, 07:51 AM

On the 4520, it is 180° phase shift between front and rear of the driver. The delay is the time that sound needs to more by 8ft (the length of the horn). You cannot change the phase shift and delay. They are part of the design of a rear loaded horn. This is why I personally try using such horn at frequencies below the phase shift frequency of 120Hz. As simple bass bins. Let's say from 30Hz up to 120Hz. This way, you avoid the phase cancellation and the dip.

NickH

05-16-2013, 08:22 AM

120, thats a bit. Ive often thought about crossing them over at there roll off point and use a another horn. But there again, its more complex and I want to avoid complexity. But I might try it one day. Ive got 2 jensen p12nf drivers that I bet go up to 1k from 150hz without a problem.

But I want to get what I have working before I change it again, LOL.

It very well might come to that though.

Nick

NickH

05-28-2013, 10:59 AM

The last step in the bass horn build will be the start of a new thread. Im going to convert the jbl drivers I have for the horns to filed coils. I have 3 jbl d130's and 1 k140. My 2 2440's will share the same fate too.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?34458-JBL-driver-field-coil-conversion
Heres a link to the new thread.

Mostlydiy

06-09-2013, 12:45 AM

Ive often thought about crossing them over at there roll off point and use a another horn. But there again, its more complex and I want to avoid complexity. Nick

Adding a midbass horn is kind of messy. Since you want them to be frontloaded without folds they become bulky, just look at mine :) If one succeeds with a properly integrated midbass horn the result could be quite rewarding though.

/Mostly

NickH

06-09-2013, 04:45 PM

Adding a midbass horn is kind of messy. Since you want them to be frontloaded without folds they become bulky, just look at mine :) If one succeeds with a properly integrated midbass horn the result could be quite rewarding though.

/Mostly

Go big or go home,:D.

Honestly I'm happy with them how they are. If I added another horn they would tower over me. And I'm 6 feet tall.

Nick

NickH

06-24-2013, 06:35 AM

Ive read time and time again how back loaded horns are no good. I even read someone who said you have to push a certain amount of power through the woofers before there even pistonic. I know there is the phase issue.

But I've been listening to these things for a little while now. I think Ive got a pretty good opinion on them. I Just cant hear any anomalies in the sound. And the fact that people say they don't work in a smaller size room is bunk. Granted they are on the short wall facing the length of the room. 30+ feet. But Ive got plenty of bass. I understand the reasoning behind the time alignment issue and I listen for signs. I just don't hear any. Now granted My ears aren't trained to listen for that kind of stuff. A trained ear will pickup things I just don't notice.

Im even using them as a direct radiator up too 800hz. I find them very easy to listen to. Even since I started playing vinyl again. I find myself listening to music hours on end.

I guess Im not as scientific as I though. If it sounds good but doesn't measure good. I guess I can live with that. Maybe as time goes on Ill start to notice things. But not yet.

Lee in Montreal

06-24-2013, 06:41 AM

Bass horns in general are great. You get lively and natural bass, not the muffled type as with bass reflex cabinet. Bass horns are much more efficient than bass reflex too. Sure they are big, but it's the price to pay for this sound. :D

NickH

06-24-2013, 09:22 AM

Im enjoying that cost immensely:D.

Can beat listening to Also Sprach Zarathustra. It's a religious moment.

Talk about goose bumps. I cant put into word how it sounds cranked up. WOW. So freaking cool.

JBLP

06-24-2013, 03:21 PM

Hey Nick,
Just found your Thread. Great work.:applaud:
MDF, glue and clamps. Got it. So they sound great?
The crossover is a challenge I noticed.
Paul

NickH

06-24-2013, 05:24 PM

Hey Nick,
Just found your Thread. Great work.:applaud:
MDF, glue and clamps. Got it. So they sound great?
The crossover is a challenge I noticed.
Paul

Please, don't mention the crossovers. But honestly they were not that bad. I just used a second order linkwitz crossover calc. But there by no means perfect.

As for the sound, I enjoy them. I made them because I like organ music. I wanted the full experience, lol. And let me tell you. They really shine on pipe organ recordings. But I think they sound good playing anything. Maybe I'm biased because I built them. But I tend to be more crucial on myself rather then easy. It was fun building them though.

NickH

06-24-2013, 05:44 PM

I was wondering so I did the math. My c55ish back horn copies have 128 square inches more mouth area then the jbl's. Plus 5 inches in the path length. I don't think the 5 inches matters but I'm guessing the extra 128 square inches might.

I've pushed some pretty low stuff through them. I've never bottomed out a driver. Now granted I wasn't trying to. But they really don't seem to have an issue below 30 Hz. But its not a scientific approach. Just sending a sine wave to them and watching for the woofers to look like there hitting max q.

just for kicks I sent a 15hz tone to them a while back. Maybe 50 watts or so of power. Sounded like I had a huey hovering over the house. I could feel it anywhere in the house. It was kind cool. But stuff started falling and my wife yelled at me :D. The woofers weren't moving nearly as much as I expected them to be. Stiff I guess.

Eaulive

07-29-2013, 12:45 PM

Adding a midbass horn is kind of messy.
/Mostly

Yeah, but it works :D:applaud::D
59563
59564

Lee in Montreal

07-29-2013, 02:42 PM

Yeah, but it works :D:applaud::D

And it works really nice. The snare drum really kicks.

NickH

07-29-2013, 07:19 PM

Trust me Eaulive, I've often though of it. And I'd probably do it if it didn't sound so good the way it is.

Plus it would almost touch the ceiling with a big honken mid bass horn on top.

And the WAF would not be too high either.

Nick

NickH

08-02-2013, 07:38 PM

Put my 2 GPA 416-8b drivers in one bass horn today. I'm screwed now. Now I need another 80p bucks for 2 more and shipping.

They sounded awesome. The bass is in your face.

Nick

NickH

09-19-2013, 08:04 AM

I bought 2 more gpa 416's. They have been in for a few weeks. The outcome is very nice. I also replaced the crappy paudio 1 inch drivers with altec 802-8d's. Again a very good upgrade though Im thinking they could use a magnetic recharge. The diaphragms are new from gpa.

Ive had my minidsp on it functioning as an active crossover. I originally had it set at a xover point of 400hz and a slope of 48db per octave. I have been trying different points though. I am surprised to find that I am liking a higher crossover point more then a lower one. I currently have it setup as a 6db butterworth at 1200hz. Im surprised at how good it sounds. But Ive got more listening to do.

Also been talking to 1Audiohack. He is giving me some insight on tools for system setup. I am now in the process of trying to learn to use arta. I know I will be very limited on how dialed in I can get this system do to the phase discrepancies of the back loaded horns. But I do like the way they sound so Ill do what I can.

I am thinking my next step is upgrading the mid horns. I need to get a wood lathe and try my hand at turning horns. I want to make some lecleach horns for both the mids and highs. I think that I will get the most improvement from that.

Ive always been a bit of a tube junky. But I'm at an impasse. I really like the way the emotiva amp sounds that Im using on the woofers. I might just use tube amplification on the mid / high's. Or maybe try some diy solid state class a amps. Who knows. Diy sand is certainly cheaper then hollow state.

Nick

more10

09-19-2013, 03:26 PM

Nick

Round Lecleach horns will beam some, you will need to eq them. You will get a narrow sweetspot though. I don't want to discourage you, the horns will sound fantastic.

Mårten

NickH

09-19-2013, 05:00 PM

I would not have guessed that. But I don't know much about them. I would love to go with multicells. But there such a pain to diy. And buying a pair is out of my league. Maybe I should just finish my smith horns I've been working on.

I've heard tractrix horns are very tight. What about exponential? I know there not normally used for higher frequencies. But is there a reason?

Nick

louped garouv

09-19-2013, 06:21 PM

especially if you turn your own...

I submit that having multiple sets of horns is a good thing....

I've been listening to both Edgar horns and the acoustic lens type assemblies
for the last few years....

imo, they both have their merits and drawbacks....
as well as " intended applications" in all likelyhood...

therefore, one should have both, and limit life's drastic decisions to things of more consequence...

:D

NickH

09-19-2013, 07:12 PM

I feel the exact same way Louped..

I seem no reason not to try many different builds. That's the fun part.

more10

09-22-2013, 11:19 PM

How low would you like the mids to go?

Tractrix is as good as LeCleach if you mount them on a baffle. All other horns types have problems with standing waves between horn mouth and throat. Thats why you don't want to go exponential.

Build the horns but be prepared to put some effort into the filter.

These are my 200 Hz LeCleach horns in my brothers barn:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/106944188/2013-05-09 19.07.32.jpg

Mårten

NickH

09-24-2013, 10:21 AM

Hi Marten,

Well that's a tough question. Ive got some crossover points I like but I haven't settled yet. I am having goot results with 500hz at 48 db slope. I was playing with 400 but I think 500 will be my minimum. Either that or 800. I have to decided between the two. Im listening to 500 at the moment. They each have there pros and cons. Figured the only way to decide is time and listening.

Nick

Mostlydiy

10-01-2013, 12:28 AM

I turned my own tractrix horns. On paper they are 320Hz horns but they have a very hard time even going down to 550Hz without support from a baffle. They do beem some as well, and Im not quite sure Im content with them soundwise. Hopefylly I will be able to try a number of different other horns for comparison in the future.

/Mostly

NickH

10-01-2013, 06:43 AM

I still haven't decided which road im going to travel yet. Too many other things to do before Im to that point.

But im pretty sure my first diy horns wont be turned. I still need to finish my diy smith horns too.

Nick

more10

10-03-2013, 12:04 AM

Nick. Maybe you can find some inspiration from the biradial LeCleach horns Asto has made (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/227939-astos-biradial-lecleach-wooden-horns.html).

I am planning to build somthing similar using a cnc router.

NickH

10-08-2013, 06:21 AM

60305

Ive got a new power source for the bass horns. An ARC D115 2 channel tube amp. Pushes about 100 watts.

I attached a pic. Not the best photo though. The amps not bad but I think my emotive sounded a little bit better. But the arc is unmodified. :D, for now.

gyrene

04-25-2014, 03:37 PM

I'd really like to do something just like this.
I wonder how they sound by now?
Anything you would do different?
Thanks for showing us.
Hope they are great for you.

NickH

06-15-2014, 06:33 PM

Hi Gyrene,

I love the back horns. There not going anywhere any time soon. I currently working on getting the optimal driver configurations.

But if you've got 4 jbl 2225, 2205, 2220's you've got it made. I hear the 2220 is the bee's knee's.

Nick

NickH

07-30-2015, 04:02 PM

To revive my old thread here I've made a few changes. I'm in the process of buying 2226's to put in my diy 4520's. I've got 3 but need one more. I did have a change in amplification though. I'm running a qsc gx7 to run the bass horns at 500 Hz and down to 40hz. I'm using a jbl 6260 to run my 2446's. I'm running it in 2 way and I'm quite happy. Still using a 2x4 mini dsp at the moment but I'm building a analog crossover. With the bass horns at 4 ohms the and puts out 1kilowatt and oh my god its so cool. Some songs can make my eyes rattle in my head so it makes my vision blurry buts its perfectly clean. I can sustain 120 dba at my listening chair, not that I do.

with the and running the bass horn now I need an even bigger amp to run the subwoofer when I decide what that will be. I've got a 2240 frame to build a 2245 but I don't think it will be able to compete. I've got space but not enough for dual 2245 subs. What's ever it is it will probable be ran by a really big honking amp. Well over 3kilowatts. I might need to run a 220 vac drop to my game room. Oh man I'm so hooked here, hehehe.

Nick

Lee in Montreal

07-30-2015, 04:20 PM

To revive my old thread here I've made a few changes. I'm in the process of buying 2226's to put in my diy 4520's.

Hey Nick. I think you are better off with the 2225s. The 2226 are reflex drivers. 0.31 Qts is too high for a horn. I'll let others chime in, that was only my point of view. Actually, I think the bess drivers would be 2220s with 0.18 Qts...

NickH

07-31-2015, 06:57 PM

Hey Lee,
I'm following Subwoofs advice. I understand what your saying but since I ran GPA 416-8b's in the horn I'm literature the 2226's william quite well. Call it a little bit of acoustic equalization. I've tested 2 in one horn and things worked quite well. Plus I've also got the green light from my resident jbl expert too. If it doesn't work to my li,ing then I'll move on. If I harden choice yes I'd buy 2220's but since there not available I consider it a waste of time.

Nick