PDA

View Full Version : Advice Needed!



jsperber
04-21-2003, 02:05 PM
I'm new to this forum and don't yet own a pair of JBLs. I did, however, spend plenty of time listening to my college roomate's 4311s and fondly remember them!

I've become increasingly interested in vintage gear and would love to build a system using my Fisher X-100-B and a pair of JBLs.

Hence, I'm interested in acquiring either raw components or whole speakers in order to make a new pair of bookshelf speakers using vintage JBL drivers. Either a 2-way or 3-way design would be fine.

I would appreciate any and all recommendations regarding what components or speakers to look for. I may have a line on a pair of 4313Bs, pending an examination of the woofers.

I look forward to any help and hope to learn something!

Best regards, Jeff

4313B
04-21-2003, 02:25 PM
Well if you heard the L100/4310/4311 and liked it things are looking up! That's arguably the worst loudspeaker JBL ever made, and also the most popular!

:)

I'm the wrong guy to ask about the 4313B because it ranks as my personal all time favorite JBL bookshelf model with the L110A close behind followed by the L96, L166, 4411, 120Ti, L112, none of them in any particular order of preference except that I prefer the "ten" to the "twelve".

:)

jsperber
04-21-2003, 02:36 PM
Giskard:

Please understand that I "liked" the 4311s well enough 20 years ago- as you can imagine, all listening was heavy facillitated by the recreational modes of the late '70s.

That said, I now use 1958 Tannoy 12" Monitor Reds in new cabinets with a SET rig, so I'm ready to reexperience the JBL sound through something other than the JVC, Nikko or NAD amps we used back then.

I'm thinking of new cabinets because I have a chance to sneak them past my wife if they look beautiful!

Best, Jeff

boputnam
04-21-2003, 02:36 PM
I'd have to second Giskard's vote on the 4313B's. I'm working on one pair, and have the seconds in full service and they're excellent.

Watch the polarity - the 4313B's are a negative cabinet (JBL convention). So, if you are pairing them with many JBL "home" cabinets, or any other brand, you will need to reverse-wire the transducers to correct being out-of-phase.

I'm pairing my 4313B's with a pair of refitted 4312's (with 123A and LE5-2) and the combination is real pleasant.

If the 4313B's woofers don't look good, the LE10H's pass through eBay periodically.

Mr. Widget
04-21-2003, 02:37 PM
Bookshelf?


Go big!!!!!!!

Hey if you like 4311/L-100s that is OK, a hell of a lot of people happily bought them. Heck they are still popular, sometimes going for ridiculous prices on eBay.

If you were near SF I would give you a deal on a nice pair.

The primary recommendation that I would make is listen before you buy. Just because you have a fond memory of a speaker, your tastes may have changed. On the other hand you may hear a pair of 4311s and rediscover why you liked them before.

Personally I like the bigger monitors.

4313B
04-21-2003, 02:42 PM
LOL!

I forgot we don't "do" bookshelf loudspeakers on this forum... my bad :p

As for my slight of the 4311, sometimes I just can't help myself :rolleyes:

jblwolf
04-21-2003, 02:49 PM
my personal fav bookshelf was the L166,than I got in to the"need some help moving these things so the wife can dust"
category,over the years I have built my own cabs and still love the le15,375,075 combo but starting out with the L166 you can't go wrong

jsperber
04-21-2003, 02:51 PM
Sorry to ask a "bookshelf" question if its not appropriate!

I actually would love to go big, but I live in a NYC apt and would like to use the JBLs in our bedroom. My living room Tannoys are huge- I can't part with them as my Dad bought the original Chatsworth cabinets new in the late '50s- and they sound fantastic!

Besides ebay, can anyone recommend other sources for drivers or whole speakers?

Best, Jeff

jsperber
04-21-2003, 03:30 PM
What would you guys think of the 2025 woofer with a 2344 horn?

Best, Jeff

Robh3606
04-21-2003, 03:49 PM
2344 My favorite! Great horn with a 12?? Why not?? Well where you going to cross above 1k at 1.2 you could use the 2342. But in the future if you do decide to go big all you need is 2235 and you are set. You gonna use a sub?

jsperber
04-21-2003, 03:53 PM
What compression drivers are best with the 2344?

No- I won't use a sub- no room! Will I have any bass?

Jeff

Ian Mackenzie
04-22-2003, 01:38 AM
Jeff,

The JBL 2425, 2426 or any of the earlier compression drivers fitted with the diamond surround will run well, this horn needs some passive equalisation for a flat on axis response, but it is the best 1 - 16 khertz horn around and easy to use.

The network details are on jbpro.com in the service area listed under networks.

Ian

Ian Mackenzie
04-22-2003, 01:44 AM
Jeff,

Do a search for Vintage Audio (Mike ) or post a wanted thread in the sales area of the Forum, you never know what might turn up.

Jermyne Jersey in California also stock quality stuff.

If you are looking for a compact rig that is as efficient as the Tannoys and compact, the 2344a and a JBL woofer 12" woofer would be comparable to the Tannoy, they can also be used mid and near field with excellent imaging. be sure to use the JBL passive equalisation however for a flat response, I get +- 3 db from 1 - 18 khertz with that network.

Ian

jsperber
04-22-2003, 07:44 AM
What do you guys think of the 2402 bullet tweeter?

Jeff

4313B
04-22-2003, 07:57 AM
"What do you guys think of the 2402 bullet tweeter?"

http://www.jblpro.com/pages/components/uhf_drvs.htm

It does what it's supposed to do :)

tractrix
07-13-2004, 05:33 PM
Originally posted by jsperber
Sorry to ask a "bookshelf" question if its not appropriate!

I actually would love to go big, but I live in a NYC apt and would like to use the JBLs in our bedroom. My living room Tannoys are huge- I can't part with them as my Dad bought the original Chatsworth cabinets new in the late '50s- and they sound fantastic!

Besides ebay, can anyone recommend other sources for drivers or whole speakers?

Best, Jeff www.jamminjersey.com the best place to find your used altec and jbl really ebay a joke check out jammin jersey

Triumph Don
07-13-2004, 10:47 PM
Hi Jeff! I just completed a father/son project bedroom set. Got a pair or Radience series 103 [10",5", 1.5"] 3 ways at a barn sale. Junk componets, very nice cabinents, similar to L 100's but 1.1 cu.ft. larger. After lots of Forum advice we found some LE 10's, sent them to Robb in FLA for refoam. Next were mint LE5 mids [out there with patience!] and LE25 tweeters, all with the Alnico mags. Some scrubbing, sealing, polishing, new insulation, NO crossover mods, they look and sound Great! For whatever reasons, much better than the 100's I still have. Total cost $335 without the fun factor! Let us know what you come up with.

4313B
07-14-2004, 05:22 AM
Cool! Can we see some pictures? :)

boputnam
07-14-2004, 08:03 AM
Originally posted by Triumph Don
For whatever reasons, much better than the 100's I still have. Part of that likely relates to the LE10's - JBL knew something about 10-inch LF's of that vintage that took time to translate up to the 12's. The 123A's, to me, can't touch the capability of the LE10. Period.

GordonW
07-14-2004, 08:07 PM
Well, you gotta compare both woofers in their RIGHT ENCLOSURE VOLUMES. For an LE10, that's about 1.5 to 2 cubic feet... but if you run the parameters of a 123A, it's about 5-10 cubic feet! That woofer in an L100, it's a testament to a well-engineered driver, that it manages to work AT ALL, in 2 cubic feet!

Have any of you actually heard a 123A in an appropriate box? I'm going to, soon- 6 cubic feet, with a passive radiator... ie, the S-70 Alpha. I think that should lay to rest, whether the 123A can cut the mustard. With a projected bottom-end extension down to like, 26 Hz (!), and a FLAT passband, it should be interesting!!

Regards,
Gordon.

boputnam
07-15-2004, 07:48 AM
Well, I've no clue who you're yelling at, Gordon, with all those "!" Sorry to interrupt your rant... Let us know what you find in your tests.

4313B
07-15-2004, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by GordonW
Have any of you actually heard a 123A in an appropriate box?No. I usually reserve that kind of volume requirement for a JBL 15-inch transducer. Your experiment should be interesting though. I'm anxious to see what your final tuning ends up being. You're using the high compliance PR300's right?

GordonW
07-15-2004, 09:53 PM
Giskard- Right, I've got PR300s instead of PR12s. Should be a little "smoother" on the ultimate rolloff slope with those, according to my modelling. Higher compliance PRs generally seem to work better, IME...

My guess, from my initial modeling, is that the PR is going to wind up being tuned somewhere in the 12Hz range, which will correspond roughly, to a box tuning in the 20-23 Hz range, AFAIK. When I reconed the PR300s, I used a MDF disk with a 1/4"-20 bolt sticking out the back... so I have the option of easily adding 1/4" fender washers to tune the sucker to wherever it needs to go...

Bo, really, it wasn't supposed to be anything personal. It's just that I've seen so many people write off the 123A, because of experiences they've had with it in L100s and such... ie, never giving the driver a "fair chance". Having had them apart, they're really a pretty well-engineered driver... curvilinear cone, so they have flat mids, a long-excursion voice coil, so they should be capable of good strong VLF output, and the normal built like a brick-you-know-what-house JBL basket/magnet assembly. It's a shame that so many of them are tuned "awkwardly", in L100s, 4311s and such. In a box with a PR (which will control cone motion better than a port), they could be very impressive...

Regards,
Gordon.

4313B
07-16-2004, 06:31 AM
Originally posted by GordonW
It's a shame that so many of them are tuned "awkwardly", in L100s, 4311s and such.They are tuned for abuse. They can take the juice in that particular configuration.

GordonW
07-16-2004, 07:33 AM
Originally posted by Giskard
They are tuned for abuse. They can take the juice in that particular configuration.

That's DEFINITELY true. For all the hell people put L100s through, you don't see very many blown-up 123As...

Regards,
Gordon.

boputnam
07-16-2004, 07:47 AM
Originally posted by GordonW
For all the hell people I guess that is me... ;)