Calling All Onken Owners... [Archive] - Lansing Heritage Forums

intercity125

01-30-2013, 07:59 PM

Lee in Montreal

01-31-2013, 06:36 AM

Onken Box Calculator working as an Excel file.
http://www.mh-audio.nl/downloads/Onken_Calc.zip

Hi All,

I just purchased the 1-inch plywood needed to begin building a pair of Onken enclosures. For the most part I am going to follow the plans for the original I.P.Ultra Bass enclosure, though I may incorporate design aspects from some of the other plans floating around the net (slight changes in overall dimensions). My initial intention is to use the GPA 515 LF driver; however, I am also considering drivers from Celestion, Eminence, Fane, and others.

My question is this: Are there any Onken owners that have built their cabinets as "sealed" enclosures and, if so, did you have a chance to compare the performance of them with the bass reflex design? I would love to hear about your findings/experience. Thanks!

Willy

Ian Mackenzie

01-31-2013, 07:27 AM

Err..I dont think sealed is the idea at all with this type of reflex box

(I could be wrong as I recently visted the Monkey Forest in Bali and have not been quite the same since...LOL)

intercity125

01-31-2013, 10:24 AM

Lee: I've been using this calculator... http://www.mh-audio.nl/onken_br.asp It appears that they are from the same website, they just use different applications HTML vs. Excel, but I can definitely use both. Thanks!

Ian: You are probably right. It was more a question of curiosity than anything else. I am not one to mess with a good thing and will proceed to build them according to design. I suppose my fascination is because my Infinity Kappa 9's, AR-11's, and KEF 105's all have sealed cabinets and the bass in each one sounds great.

Willy

jf65

01-31-2013, 02:46 PM

Hi All,

I just purchased the 1-inch plywood needed to begin building a pair of Onken enclosures. For the most part I am going to follow the plans for the original I.P.Ultra Bass enclosure, though I may incorporate design aspects from some of the other plans floating around the net (slight changes in overall dimensions). My initial intention is to use the GPA 515 LF driver; however, I am also considering drivers from Celestion, Eminence, Fane, and others.

My question is this: Are there any Onken owners that have built their cabinets as "sealed" enclosures and, if so, did you have a chance to compare the performance of them with the bass reflex design? I would love to hear about your findings/experience. Thanks!

Willy

Hello,

the Onken is a good box, good choice.
But what are you trying to discover by asking about an Onken enclosure which is not an Onken enclosure but a sealed box?

If somebody wants a sealed box, let him do it, if he wants a bass reflex, let him do it, but if he wants an Onken enclosure he must do the usual model: 275 liters inside, vents on the side, like it was published in "l'Audiophile". Jacques Mahul (of Focal) who was writing in the magazine at the time calculated that it's simply a bass reflex with n=6.34, the advantages are the reinforcement of the sides by the vents and the large vent surface, and it was made for a driver corresponding to the Altec 416.

My advice: if you don't use that specific driver, forget about Onken and build a box according to the parameters of the your driver (closed or vented...), it will be simpler and tuned to the driver.

For somebody who wants the look of this box, I don't see the need of an Onken calculator, any bass reflex calculator can do it, as long as you take n=6.34 and make the surface of the vents close to or a little smaller than the one of the driver. If the parameters make it impossible (vent too long or surface too small), then forget it.

Best regards,
jean

Lee in Montreal

01-31-2013, 02:56 PM

For somebody who wants the look of this box, I don't see the need of an Onken calculator...

For the most part I am going to follow the plans for the original I.P.Ultra Bass enclosure, though I may incorporate design aspects from some of the other plans floating around the net (slight changes in overall dimensions).

This.

intercity125

01-31-2013, 07:00 PM

Hello,

the Onken is a good box, good choice.
But what are you trying to discover by asking about an Onken enclosure which is not an Onken enclosure but a sealed box?

If somebody wants a sealed box, let him do it, if he wants a bass reflex, let him do it, but if he wants an Onken enclosure he must do the usual model: 275 liters inside, vents on the side, like it was published in "l'Audiophile". Jacques Mahul (of Focal) who was writing in the magazine at the time calculated that it's simply a bass reflex with n=6.34, the advantages are the reinforcement of the sides by the vents and the large vent surface, and it was made for a driver corresponding to the Altec 416.

My advice: if you don't use that specific driver, forget about Onken and build a box according to the parameters of the your driver (closed or vented...), it will be simpler and tuned to the driver.

For somebody who wants the look of this box, I don't see the need of an Onken calculator, any bass reflex calculator can do it, as long as you take n=6.34 and make the surface of the vents close to or a little smaller than the one of the driver. If the parameters make it impossible (vent too long or surface too small), then forget it.

Best regards,
jean

Hi Jean,

I appreciate your passion regarding the Onken enclosure. Likewise, I appreciate your right to an expressed opinion. Of this there is no debate. However, if using the same vein of free expression as you have above, isn’t it my right, indeed, the right of any member, to ask questions regarding a loudspeaker’s design? After all, is this not a venue for all things DIY? If one cannot express their creative prowess in the pages of this forum, then where is one to go?

Moreover, if we take into account the multitude of loudspeaker designs circulating the globe, is not the Onken enclosure simply just another design in the grand scheme of things? Without a doubt it is a fabulously designed enclosure, and one that appeals to me on many levels, both aesthetically and acoustically, but who is to say that the design will not serve well in a sealed variety? I think it would, otherwise I would not have solicited the question.

If we limit ourselves to the boundaries contained within simple plans and diagrams, without thought or consideration towards different or, perhaps, better ways of creating something, then none of us has any right to express themselves in the pages of this particular forum, myself included.

Regards,

Willy

grumpy

01-31-2013, 07:47 PM

I think the point folks are trying to make is that the "Onken" design
has holes, works well enough in a specific design space,
and is not sealed. This is not an opinion... it just is.

If one wishes to make something that physically resembles
such a cabinet without the holes, I don't think
anyone would take issue with your chosen aesthetic...
It's just not an "Onken" as it is normally referred to...
any more than a sealed corner-placement-intended box
is a K-horn.

As to whether a GP 515 driver would work well in a large
sealed box... that is something the Altec fan base can probably
answer or give you a modeled estimate of. Hope your build
comes out well regardless :)

[IIRC, your previous sealed systems
all had very compliant suspension bass drivers, designed specifically
for sealed operation ... the 515 being somewhat different, I expect
it might take a very large cabinet, closer to infinite baffle, to play
low in a sealed box... but do get more than my opinion on this]

intercity125

01-31-2013, 09:47 PM

NickH

02-01-2013, 07:51 AM

intercity125

02-01-2013, 08:36 AM

I know its a different forum but try diyaudio.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/130109-reviving-onken.html

My friend Kevin who built a pair of onkens for the 515 or iconic 165-g. There by no means small. If you want to build a pair of jensen ultraflex cabinets know that webber speakers make a copy of the jensen p15ll which I think was one of the drivers that went in them.

And there is a driver the eminence makes that has ts parameters that are really close to the 515. I just dont recall which one at the moment.

Nick

Hey Nick,

How's it going? I remember you mentioning the Iconic/Onken combo on your thread. I've been over to the diyaudio site a few times for information, though I have yet to join. There's a very nice feature of an Onken build here http://www.audiodesignguide.com/HiEff/HiEff.html, that I have been studying with great interest. I sure wish I could get my hands on some of that 30 mil ply he is using, but it simply cannot be had unless special ordered and at a huge cost. I was lucky to find the 1-inch China Birch for my build.

Not to hijack my own thread, but how are your Altec's coming along? I decided against the 828 cabinets that are for sale locally, in favor of the Onken's. I do love the big Altec's, but it's the look of the Onken that has drawn me in. Hopefully their performance will meet (if not exceed) my expectations, as well. I will keep you posted.

Willy

NickH

02-01-2013, 11:42 AM

Hi Willy,

Not much happening lately, been busy. But the gears still turn in my head. Im going to be building wings this weekend. I attached a pic of one of his onkens. He has a build thread on diyaudio. Plus there are a couple long thread about construction. If you do join diyaudio look him up. His handle is Kevinkr. He is a moderator in the tube section.

Hey I dont blame you about the onkens. I love them. a well designed and implemented onken enclosure sounds great. But you really have to do your homework. But as usual, your patients will be rewarded.

To be honest you dont have to use 1" ply. He did it will 3/4" and its just fine. I think the 1" or more is just audio sobery.. FLAME ON!!!! But that just my 2 cents. The vent area on the onkens really firm up the cabinets. Doesnt mean it hurts to build them with 1". Oh wait, it probably would hurt,,,,,,,, YOUR BACK. Ouch Im hurting already.

Know one thing, the cabinets will not be small. My friends cabinets are the size of a medium sized refrigerator.

How is your skill at carpentry? Not that these are complex. But there are a lot of peicecs that have to be the exact same size. That can get people into trouble sometimes. Just take one piece to be a little off and stuffs everything up. Use jigs and stops where ever you can.

Nick

58104
Hey Nick,

How's it going? I remember you mentioning the Iconic/Onken combo on your thread. I've been over to the diyaudio site a few times for information, though I have yet to join. There's a very nice feature of an Onken build here http://www.audiodesignguide.com/HiEff/HiEff.html, that I have been studying with great interest. I sure wish I could get my hands on some of that 30 mil ply he is using, but it simply cannot be had unless special ordered and at a huge cost. I was lucky to find the 1-inch China Birch for my build.

Not to hijack my own thread, but how are your Altec's coming along? I decided against the 828 cabinets that are for sale locally, in favor of the Onken's. I do love the big Altec's, but it's the look of the Onken that has drawn me in. Hopefully their performance will meet (if not exceed) my expectations, as well. I will keep you posted.

Willy

intercity125

02-01-2013, 02:21 PM

Hey Nick,

That's right, wings! Man, those are going to be nice, but talk about big. An 828 with wings has got to be enormous. We're talking Klipsch Jubilee territory now! Either way, I'm sure you'll do them up right and they will sound great.

As for the Onken's, you're right, they are pretty big, too. I'm doing mine with the 1-inch ply if only to keep them as close to spec as possible. In the end, mine will have an overall dimension of H=35" X W=30" X D=22" so some slight adjustment to the vents will be in order. Of course, the 511B's will be mounted on top, too. I'm a pretty skilled woodworker, but you're right, there isn't a much of a margin for error even though many of the pieces are identical in size. I thought about just hauling my wood to a local CNC shop and having them do it, but I would miss out on the experience. Keep your fingers crossed!

I just may have to join the DIY Audio site and look your friend up. Thanks for the contact info. I'll tell him you sent me. Keep up posted with pics of your Altec's. I can't wait to see them with their new wings!

Willy

NickH

02-01-2013, 09:21 PM

Hey Willy,

There are quite a few builders of onkens on diyaudio. I know all the info you would need is available there. Albeit member knowledge or threads. Plus all the people that have built them. I'm not knocking lhs, just a different beast here.

I do know you have to be real careful with series resistance in the woofers low pass network. I like the onkens but I plan to build a horn loaded onken bass cabinet one day. Hopefully sooner rather then later.

Are you going the audiophile route and using lambs wool for the dampening material in the cabinets? Or good old Owens corning.

its good your skilled in carpentry. I'm still working on my skills,lol. But I'm getting better. Still have a long way to go though. Remember to measure twice and cut once,lol. I've tried that over and over again and I still screw up.

Nick

intercity125

02-02-2013, 09:06 AM

Hi Nick,

I'm going to source lamb's wool first and if I cannot find a good, resonably priced, supplier I will go the way of some sort of poly-fill.

A horn-loaded Onken sounds very interesting; I'd love to see you do that one. Speaking of horns, I just may get the 828 cabinets after all. The guy selling them has two pairs, one factory and one built to Altec spec. Both sets come with 511B horns, drivers, crossovers, and woofers, all for $500.00 a pair. The crossovers and drivers are a mismatch (not Altec) but the horns and cabinets are worth more than the asking price.

I plan on using my reworked Altec N801-8B crossovers for the Onken's, but I may also go with one of GPA's crossovers made for the 515 woofer. I'm still a ways away for that, and like you have done with your big Altec's, I will experiment.

Willy

NickH

02-02-2013, 07:03 PM

You better buy them or I will.

Hi Nick,

I'm going to source lamb's wool first and if I cannot find a good, resonably priced, supplier I will go the way of some sort of poly-fill.

A horn-loaded Onken sounds very interesting; I'd love to see you do that one. Speaking of horns, I just may get the 828 cabinets after all. The guy selling them has two pairs, one factory and one built to Altec spec. Both sets come with 511B horns, drivers, crossovers, and woofers, all for $500.00 a pair. The crossovers and drivers are a mismatch (not Altec) but the horns and cabinets are worth more than the asking price.

I plan on using my reworked Altec N801-8B crossovers for the Onken's, but I may also go with one of GPA's crossovers made for the 515 woofer. I'm still a ways away for that, and like you have done with your big Altec's, I will experiment.

Willy

intercity125

02-02-2013, 09:10 PM

You better buy them or I will.

Hi Nick,

They're all yours; I bought my wife a new Samsung washer and dryer today so I'm tapped! LOL!

Willy

NickH

02-02-2013, 09:33 PM

Well it sounds like we are both screwed then,lol. The drivers are practically worth that alone.

Hi Nick,

They're all yours; I bought my wife a new Samsung washer and dryer today so I'm tapped! LOL!

Willy

jf65

02-04-2013, 06:52 PM

Hi Grumpy,

I completely agree with your assessment. My intention was never to stir up controversy, only to illustrate a "what if" scenario. As mentioned in my reply to Ian and Lee, I fully intend to build the Onken to spec, or as close to it.

Jean: If you are reading this, know that I took no offense by your reply and none was intended by mine.

Maybe my answer was not very subtle, but english is not my native language and i'm struggling to find a way to express myself, so when i manage to make a few coherent sentences i consider the job done - it might resonate differently than i expected...

I'm not against experimentation, and one thing i regret is that i made the back panel for opening, instead of the front one which holds the driver.
My goal was to make the front more rigid, and with better looks than a row of screws, but by doing so i stopped any attempt to modification - like making a short horn (like Tannoy westminster, Voice of theatre or like the one that Koizumi made, another Onken design) to put a Tannoy 15 inches which needs a smaller box and a short horn (a 515 would prefer that also). By changing the front panel and modifying vents it could have been done.

Think about that before beginning...
Another thing i would do if i was to make another pair, is to make the vents in two parts (vertically) so that they could be shortened if you want to try another driver - or else you can only close a few but it makes the others longer, no way to shorten them.

Jean

intercity125

02-05-2013, 04:19 PM

Maybe my answer was not very subtle, but english is not my native language and i'm struggling to find a way to express myself, so when i manage to make a few coherent sentences i consider the job done - it might resonate differently than i expected...

I'm not against experimentation, and one thing i regret is that i made the back panel for opening, instead of the front one which holds the driver.
My goal was to make the front more rigid, and with better looks than a row of screws, but by doing so i stopped any attempt to modification - like making a short horn (like Tannoy westminster, Voice of theatre or like the one that Koizumi made, another Onken design) to put a Tannoy 15 inches which needs a smaller box and a short horn (a 515 would prefer that also). By changing the front panel and modifying vents it could have been done.

Think about that before beginning...
Another thing i would do if i was to make another pair, is to make the vents in two parts (vertically) so that they could be shortened if you want to try another driver - or else you can only close a few but it makes the others longer, no way to shorten them.

Jean

Hi Jean,

No worries, and no offense taken. I understand that thoughts and principals can get lost in translation when crossing the pond. If my reply seemed a bit chided, I apologize for that. It was not my intent to sound so forthwith.

Your ideas regarding the front baffle, and especially the vents, is definitely something to consider. It certainly opens up the door to many other options and configurations, though in my case I think it better to stick with the original design before I go experimenting. Should this pair meet my expectations I will go all out on a second pair!

Willy

NickH

03-11-2013, 06:13 AM

Hey Willy,

Have you cut any wood yet? Ive got one horn almost done.

Nick

Hi Jean,

No worries, and no offense taken. I understand that thoughts and principals can get lost in translation when crossing the pond. If my reply seemed a bit chided, I apologize for that. It was not my intent to sound so forthwith.

Your ideas regarding the front baffle, and especially the vents, is definitely something to consider. It certainly opens up the door to many other options and configurations, though in my case I think it better to stick with the original design before I go experimenting. Should this pair meet my expectations I will go all out on a second pair!

Willy

intercity125

03-11-2013, 04:04 PM

Hey Willy,

Have you cut any wood yet? Ive got one horn almost done.

Nick

Hey Nick,

No cutting yet, but I did measure everything out in preparation for cutting this coming weekend. They're all straight cuts (thank goodness) but it's two cuts per each 24" X 48" sheet and I have 16 sheets to cut! I know, waaa, suck it up, but I'm doing them all with a Skil saw and guide.

I saw the horn... looking good! What adhesive did you go with in the end, and how does it work?

Willy

NickH

03-11-2013, 07:57 PM

Hey Nick,

No cutting yet, but I did measure everything out in preparation for cutting this coming weekend. They're all straight cuts (thank goodness) but it's two cuts per each 24" X 48" sheet and I have 16 sheets to cut! I know, waaa, suck it up, but I'm doing them all with a Skil saw and guide.

I saw the horn... looking good! What adhesive did you go with in the end, and how does it work?

Willy

I feel your pain. Did all my cuts with a circ saw. Even the angled edges. I'm not starting on the second cab until I've got a table saw. Most of my angled cuts ended up being a little off but still usable. I tried that loctite pl premium construction adhesive and I'm hooked. I love that stuff. Way better then anything I've used, even pva glue. Stuff even work good as a filled. Cures hard almost like epoxy. Its the consistency of peanut butter. Its around 5 bucks for a small tube or 7 for a huge caulk tube. Way cheaper then most other options. I did use some gorilla glue also, on the frame. Everything else is pl premium.

I actually finished building the horn tonight. I'll make some noise tomorrow maybe. Still have some sanding and painting left to do. I'm painting them hammertone black. I'm going for that cool retro vide.

have you picked a driver yet?

Nick

intercity125

03-12-2013, 04:14 AM

I feel your pain. Did all my cuts with a circ saw. Even the angled edges. I'm not starting on the second cab until I've got a table saw. Most of my angled cuts ended up being a little off but still usable. I tried that loctite pl premium construction adhesive and I'm hooked. I love that stuff. Way better then anything I've used, even pva glue. Stuff even work good as a filled. Cures hard almost like epoxy. Its the consistency of peanut butter. Its around 5 bucks for a small tube or 7 for a huge caulk tube. Way cheaper then most other options. I did use some gorilla glue also, on the frame. Everything else is pl premium.

I actually finished building the horn tonight. I'll make some noise tomorrow maybe. Still have some sanding and painting left to do. I'm painting them hammertone black. I'm going for that cool retro vide.

have you picked a driver yet?

Nick

Hey Nick,

That's great news on the PL Premium; I'm going to have to try some. I like the Titebond III, but the cure rate is a little slow. Not that I'm in a hurry, I would just like things to set-up a bit faster.

I decided to go with an 18-inch driver for the Onken and, depending on whether I build it as a traditional vented, or sealed, cabinet the choice of drivers are as follows:

Vented:

Selenium SWS 18-800
Eminence Omega Pro 18

Sealed:

Fane Soveriegn 18-500
Radian 2218
MCM Audio Select 18 (I believe it is a tweaked Pyle Performance driver)

I will most likely make them vented, as the two drivers I selected, especially the Selenium, are near perfect for the size cabinet (8.5 - 9 cu. ft.). Not only that, the bass will extend down a lot further, which is a benefit. I've spent the last week modeling over 30 different drivers and the 5 above seem to be the best.

Glad to hear you finished one of the horns. You are really kicking some tail on this project. I love the idea of the hammertone paint; that's what I used on the painted parts of the KEF 105's!

Willy

NickH

03-12-2013, 06:09 AM

Ive always liked the sound of a sealed woofer. That slow roll off response. But its certianly not very efficient. Either way You'll be doing some struciral damage to your house building those monsters. So will I :D.

I read up on pl preimium before I used it. Other then some people gettting a bad batch in the northeast last year, the reviews are great. It starts setting up in an hour but doesnt fully cure for 24 hours. So I wouldnt call it a fast curing adhesive. But it starts to set within an hour. And I bet with the hot and humid Texas summers it will be a bit shorter then 24Hrs.

If the weather in San Antonio will be anything like it supposed to be in Houston, you picked a good weekend to cut some wood.

Nick

Hey Nick,

That's great news on the PL Premium; I'm going to have to try some. I like the Titebond III, but the cure rate is a little slow. Not that I'm in a hurry, I would just like things to set-up a bit faster.

I decided to go with an 18-inch driver for the Onken and, depending on whether I build it as a traditional vented, or sealed, cabinet the choice of drivers are as follows:

Vented:

Selenium SWS 18-800
Eminence Omega Pro 18

Sealed:

Fane Soveriegn 18-500
Radian 2218
MCM Audio Select 18 (I believe it is a tweaked Pyle Performance driver)

I will most likely make them vented, as the two drivers I selected, especially the Selenium, are near perfect for the size cabinet (8.5 - 9 cu. ft.). Not only that, the bass will extend down a lot further, which is a benefit. I've spent the last week modeling over 30 different drivers and the 5 above seem to be the best.

Glad to hear you finished one of the horns. You are really kicking some tail on this project. I love the idea of the hammertone paint; that's what I used on the painted parts of the KEF 105's!

Willy

Mostlydiy

04-10-2013, 11:45 PM

NickH

04-11-2013, 08:18 AM

Hello Willy,

A pair of Onken cabinets for my 416-8A is one somewhere on my to do DIY list also. The 416 is a very good driver and if you have trouble finding any, I know that this Danish guy has a few to sell. http://www.haslingaudio.com/ the shipping cant be that much to France I guess.

/Mostly

Willy's in Texas though. I bet that wouldnt be too cheap. A pair of gpa ceramic 416's are 280 a pop. With shipping from europe the gpa's would probably be a steal. Unless he's going the purist route. Then I can understand wanting real altecs. I fould a gut selling 2 416'8b's on ebay for less then 200 a pop. Im keeping that off list though. Otherwise they will probably be gone in a minute flat, LOL.

Mostlydiy

04-11-2013, 10:14 AM

Willy's in Texas though

Right you are. My bad.... must have had him confused with someone else

Yea, shipping from Denmark wouldn´t work very well. The 416 aren´t horribly rare, I bet if he gave it some time he would probably find a pair, if he´s going the purist route that is. Which is the only right thing if you ask me :)

/Mostly

intercity125

04-12-2013, 04:03 AM

Hi Mostly, Nick,

I'm not opposed to using "original" Altec driver's but, yeah, shipping from Europe would be high. Also, I haven't quite figured out which way I am going to construct the Onken's yet. I originally intended on building them to spec, using the side vents for reflex, but the more I study the design I could get away with a non-Altec driver and simply port them to which ever driver I use (probably Eminence or Fane) specs. Both drivers would require a 6-1/2" diameter X 4" length port.

With either the Eminence or Fane the bass would be lower that using an Altec driver in a spec cabinet, but my main concern is quality not quantity. I think most people build the Onken to spec because of the speed and definition it brings to the bass, moreso than the ultimate lows it is capable of. Still on the fence over this one.

Mostly, thank you for providing the link to Hasling Audio. It's a great website with lots of good info and pics.

Willy

Mostlydiy

04-12-2013, 04:52 AM

Hi Willy,

If it´s quality you are persuing then I would definitely go for the 416. Especially if you are building an Onken. I can´t comment on the other drivers you are considering but the 416 is very good driver. Some people consider it to be among the best drivers ever made. I was on the verge on buying from Hasling audio but accidentally found a pair of Altec Valencias with 416-8A close to where I live which of course turned out to be easier to acquire.

Good luck with your project!

/Mostly

NickH

04-12-2013, 06:35 AM

Hey Willy,

My good friend built his Onkens around the iconic 165-g which is a gpa 515G. Theres no issue with lows being lacking. They go down into the low thirties. And efficient as ill get out. He can get around 120db with 20 watts of juice. Knock your sock off kinda sound. That doesnt mean you wont get good results with ther drivers though. Just letting you know from personal experiance. I know he was looking at using a eminence driver at first. It was a delta or gamma I want to say. But Im not certian. Eminence driver specs dont really look all that good. At least to me. All there q values are too high.

Nick

Hi Mostly, Nick,

I'm not opposed to using "original" Altec driver's but, yeah, shipping from Europe would be high. Also, I haven't quite figured out which way I am going to construct the Onken's yet. I originally intended on building them to spec, using the side vents for reflex, but the more I study the design I could get away with a non-Altec driver and simply port them to which ever driver I use (probably Eminence or Fane) specs. Both drivers would require a 6-1/2" diameter X 4" length port.

With either the Eminence or Fane the bass would be lower that using an Altec driver in a spec cabinet, but my main concern is quality not quantity. I think most people build the Onken to spec because of the speed and definition it brings to the bass, moreso than the ultimate lows it is capable of. Still on the fence over this one.

Mostly, thank you for providing the link to Hasling Audio. It's a great website with lots of good info and pics.

Willy

intercity125

04-12-2013, 02:49 PM

Hey Willy,

My good friend built his Onkens around the iconic 165-g which is a gpa 515G. Theres no issue with lows being lacking. They go down into the low thirties. And efficient as ill get out. He can get around 120db with 20 watts of juice. Knock your sock off kinda sound. That doesnt mean you wont get good results with ther drivers though. Just letting you know from personal experiance. I know he was looking at using a eminence driver at first. It was a delta or gamma I want to say. But Im not certian. Eminence driver specs dont really look all that good. At least to me. All there q values are too high.

Nick

Hi Nick,

I have been in touch with your friend Kevin and he has been very helpful regarding which driver works best in a (spec'ed) Onken cabinet. You're right, he informed me that his Iconic's do indeed go down to 35hz, which is plenty low for me. You are also correct in that most of the Eminence drivers have too high a QTS... at least for a spec'ed Onken. However, in a ported Onken, a few will work very well. The one I have in mind is the 18" Omega. Still on the fence over traditional vs. ported, but I can begin building the outer portion of the cabinets this weekend while I decide.

Willy

NickH

04-12-2013, 06:44 PM

Hey Willy,

Kevin's a good guys. He's has taught me pretty much everything I know. I owe him a lot. Just remember if you go with an 18 it won't go very high. So are you talking about what they call a w onken?

Either way I'm sure its going to sound good.

Are you going to drive it with tube gear?

intercity125

04-13-2013, 08:12 AM

...So are you talking about what they call a w onken?

Hey NicK,

The Onkens I am going to build are called the Onken 360's. Basically, the big, front vented (three on each side) version model. The Onken W, if I am not mistaken, is a different beast all together. I believe those have dual woofers and side walls that are filled with sand.

Are you going to drive it with tube gear?

Indeed I am. I am going to be using a pair of Quicksilver Audio Horn Mono amplifiers.

Willy

NickH

04-19-2013, 06:26 PM

Yep there the sand box, lol. I don't recall you saying onken 360 before. I guess it just didn't click. I will look up the design.

Quick silver makes some neat little amps. Isn't the horn amp a single ended el34? Its going to be a nice weekend, are you going to do any building? I'm going to try and finish my smith horns.

Nick

Hey NicK,

The Onkens I am going to build are called the Onken 360's. Basically, the big, front vented (three on each side) version model. The Onken W, if I am not mistaken, is a different beast all together. I believe those have dual woofers and side walls that are filled with sand.

Indeed I am. I am going to be using a pair of Quicksilver Audio Horn Mono amplifiers.

Willy

intercity125

04-20-2013, 08:00 AM

Hey Nick,

I tend to just say Onken as it covers the basic designs. The 360 specifically refers to the cabinet's size in liters. They also have an "L" designator, which, I believe, just means side vents or vents. Mine will be a combination of the two, as they may fall just short 360 liters. Still, they're going to be a big pair.

Not sure if the Horn Mono's are considered single-ended, as they have two EL-34's per side, but they do run in Triode mode, which gives them a nice smooth sound. I used them on the Klipsch Cornwall's and Belle's I had a few years back and they sounded fabulous, plus they are dead quiet. On the other hand, the Emotive UPA-1 monos I have would work well, too. Although complete overkill at 250 WPC they, too, sound as smooth as silk and are dead quiet on high sensitivity loudspeakers. I use them on my Audio Nirvana Super 8 full-range single driver speakers and they sound great. Either way I am covered.

Yeah, it looks like it's going to be a great weakend up here too (weather wise), so I am going to be out in the garage doing some building. At least I will be pre-fitting everything before I actually screw and glue it all together. I'll let you know how I get on...

Willy

NickH

04-20-2013, 08:39 AM

Ya its a beauty here. Have fun.

Hey Nick,

I tend to just say Onken as it covers the basic designs. The 360 specifically refers to the cabinet's size in liters. They also have an "L" designator, which, I believe, just means side vents or vents. Mine will be a combination of the two, as they may fall just short 360 liters. Still, they're going to be a big pair.

Not sure if the Horn Mono's are considered single-ended, as they have two EL-34's per side, but they do run in Triode mode, which gives them a nice smooth sound. I used them on the Klipsch Cornwall's and Belle's I had a few years back and they sounded fabulous, plus they are dead quiet. On the other hand, the Emotive UPA-1 monos I have would work well, too. Although complete overkill at 250 WPC they, too, sound as smooth as silk and are dead quiet on high sensitivity loudspeakers. I use them on my Audio Nirvana Super 8 full-range single driver speakers and they sound great. Either way I am covered.

Yeah, it looks like it's going to be a great weakend up here too (weather wise), so I am going to be out in the garage doing some building. At least I will be pre-fitting everything before I actually screw and glue it all together. I'll let you know how I get on...

Willy