Power amp for 4345

[Doomsmith]

Hi all!
What power amp do you recommend for 4345? I'd like to purchase new one, not vintage or used (amp). My listening room is 60 square meters.
I prefer doom metal music (surprise!). But sometimes I listen other styles - classic,jazz, synth and even MDM and black.
Thank you in advance for recommendations!

[Dave_72]

Hi all!
What power amp do you recommend for 4345? I'd like to purchase new one, not vintage or used (amp). My listening room is 60 square meters.
I prefer doom metal music (surprise!). But sometimes I listen other styles - classic,jazz, synth and even MDM and black.
Thank you in advance for recommendations!

I like Bryston, Pass Labs, McIntosh, Coda, and Accuphase. You can't go wrong with any of those, imo.

[Lee in Montreal]

How long until someone else suggests to bi-amp them? Because that's how they should be used. There should be no crossover between the woofer and the amp.

[Doomsmith]

I like Bryston, Pass Labs, McIntosh, Coda, and Accuphase. You can't go wrong with any of those, imo.

Thanx!

[hjames]

How long until someone else suggests to bi-amp them?
Because that's how they should be used. There should be no crossover between the woofer and the amp.

This!
Biamp has to be the only real path to amplification.
Its such a revelation to hear the woofers when they are freed of the passive network, it really is the only configuration. to consider.

[Doomsmith]

This!
Biamp has to be the only real path to amplification.
Its such a revelation to hear the woofers when they are freed of the passive network, it really is the only configuration. to consider.

You mean active biamping, isn't it?

[gasfan]

I haven't started mine yet but I do have all the pieces. I also have 4 amps I intend to run through a 4 way Marchand. I'm hoping the cabs will be done by Spring. So mine will be fully active. First experience with that.

[hjames]

You mean active biamping, isn't it?
its the only kind i know - not biwire!

[Doomsmith]

its the only kind i know - not biwire!There are two ways of biamping
1.
Source
preamp
power amp - HF section of lowdspeaker
power amp - LF section of lowdspeaker

2.
Source
preamp
active crossover
power amp - HF section of lowdspeaker
power amp - LF section of lowdspeaker

In second case you have to switch off internal crossover in loudspeaker.

[Lee in Montreal]

There are two ways of biamping
1.
Source
preamp
power amp - HF section of lowdspeaker
power amp - LF section of lowdspeaker

2.
Source
preamp
active crossover
power amp - HF section of lowdspeaker
power amp - LF section of lowdspeaker

In secon case you have to switch off internal crossover in loudspeaker. Are you running the woofer in full range in your first set-up? Remember that the goal is to bypass the crossover in the woofer channel.

[Doomsmith]

Well, I think about Accuphase A-200

[Dave_72]

Wow, that is a dream amp! I heard it @ CES 2013, and it was super! I really liked it a lot.

Expensive here in the US and Europe. Cheaper to buy from Japan.

http://www.japanaudio.jp/page0.html

I am thinking about Accuphase too, but one of the cheaper amps...

[hjames]

There are two ways of biamping
1.
Source
preamp
power amp - HF section of lowdspeaker
power amp - LF section of lowdspeaker

2.
Source
preamp
active crossover
power amp - HF section of lowdspeaker
power amp - LF section of lowdspeaker

In second case you have to switch off internal crossover in loudspeaker.

All I have ever done is #2 with active crossover

have no idea what the point of #1 is ...
That would feed full spectrum to both amps - what is the gain of that?

[pathfindermwd]

All I have ever done is #2 with active crossover

have no idea what the point of #1 is ...
That would feed full spectrum to both amps - what is the gain of that?

From what I have heard, not much.

But, speaking from experience... I mated an Adcom 555 for the woofer, with an Adcom 535 for the mid/tweets on a three way L100S Duanage modded for me to be bi-amp-able.

The Adcom 535 is different sounding from the 555. I won't elaborate as it is often too subjective. But this is one reason why one might fore-go the active part (which has it's detractors), from a straight up passive bi-amp.

A tube amp for the mids/tweets with a solid state for the woofer is another example, if the gains can be matched.

I can't speak to the active bi-amp as I haven't gone that way yet, but gains can be had using two different amps.

I won't say it's as good as an active because I really don't know, but... it can be more cost efficient IF, you have a guy like Duanage around.;)

[hjames]

I biamped my 4341s with various configs over the 5+ years I had them.
Other than an initial period with a single amp, I used Active biamping all the time I owned them.
Once I got off the HK receiver and went separates, it was a JBL/UREI 552 and JBL 6230 amp w/6260 amp for the woofers.
Later I swapped that active crossover for an Ashly XR1001 (model # corrected, thanks Phil!)
used a pair of Adcom 555s for a while, and later one 555 and a 535 ... (1st gen, not the series IIs)
Even tried a Harman Kardon Citation 22 for the woofers for a while ... nice tight control.

I just don't get the reason to feed full spectrum sound to the woofers -
if you don't establish a cutoff for the woofers and upper drivers,
they'll overlap in Freq and that's no good for the sound.
You need a lowpass on the woofer and a high pass on the other drivers.


From what I have heard, not much.

But, speaking from experience... I mated an Adcom 555 for the woofer, with an Adcom 535 for the mid/tweets
on a three way L100S Duanage modded for me to be bi-amp-able.

The Adcom 535 is different sounding from the 555. I won't elaborate as it is often too subjective. But this is one reason why one might fore-go the active part (which has it's detractors), from a straight up passive bi-amp.

A tube amp for the mids/tweets with a solid state for the woofer is another example, if the gains can be matched.

I can't speak to the active bi-amp as I haven't gone that way yet, but gains can be had using two different amps.

I won't say it's as good as an active because I really don't know, but... it can be more cost efficient IF, you have a guy like Duanage around.;)

[pathfindermwd]

I biamped my 4341s with various configs over the 5+ years I had them.
Other than an initial period with a single amp, I used Active biamping all the time I owned them.
Once I got off the HK receiver and went separates, it was a JBL/UREI 552 and JBL 6230 amp w/6260 amp for the woofers.
Later I swapped that active crossover for Ashly XR1002 (tired, but I "think" thats the model # for the stereo 2way)
used a pair of Adcom 555s for a while, and later one 555 and a 535 ... (1st gen, not the series IIs)
Even tried a Harman Kardon Citation 22 for the woofers for a while ... nice tight control.

I just don't get the reason to feed full spectrum sound to the woofers -
if you don't establish a cutoff for the woofers and upper drivers,
they'll overlap in Freq and that's no good for the sound.
You need a lowpass on the woofer and a high pass on the other drivers.

Cool! Can I pick your brain sometime then?:D

As you also probably know, the mid-range pierce of even a T3 is sometimes very tiresome. I found the 535 to be very helpful in dispersion. Course, it was made in 1986 and may need new capacitors. But it gave me much hope that amp differences might really help.

I have been trying to find out how to do the active best, and it would be nothing to bypass the woofer's active XO.
I have heard that active XO's have a sound of their own and that sound is not always good. It very confusing.

You recommending the Ashley?

Edit: woofers passive XO

[BMWCCA]

Not that my opinion is worth much as I am an admitted bottom-feeder (three daughters' college tuitions make it a necessity), but my black-ash baffle Reisen/Katzass 4345 replicas are bi-amp only using the CC crossover design from this site. I use an Ashly XR1001 active crossover with one Crown PS400 running in stereo for the 2245Hs and a PS200 in stereo for the upper three drivers. I love the sound. Can't tell you how much better it would sound with more money spent on the amplification but I can tell you with the Crowns they are absolutely effortless in producing prodigious volume levels with incredible clarity while being smooth, lifelike, and clear during quiet listening.

I have several Crown amps but the pair I'm using now cost me just $300 for the pair several years back and have never disappointed. I have an original D150 as well as a D150A-II I purchased new so I wasn't always so circumspect with my power budget.

I'm currently listening to Meshell Ndegeocello's CD dedication to Nina Simone but Steely Dan, Edgar Meyer, David Sanborn, or Dire Straits can make the 4345s sing in my home, too! ;)

[Doomsmith]

Well, returning to the subject, what do you say about Plinius power amps?
SB-301, for example.

[Dave_72]

Well, returning to the subject, what do you say about Plinius power amps?
SB-301, for example.

I haven't heard those yet. However, they're supposed to be very good amps.

[BMWCCA]

Well, returning to the subject, what do you say about Plinius power amps?
SB-301, for example.

At over $10k each they're obviously way out of my league though the reviews are effusively flattering. I'm sure you've seen them but here's one sample: http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/plinius-sb-301-stereo-power-amplifier/

Interesting that Neil also references an Edgar Meyer album for his testing.

[jbl_daddy]

Currently using a pair of crown k1's that I bought new eight years ago. The previous ten years used a pair of crown psa2's until they got struck by a power surge and died...
Can not beat them for the money.:)

[Dave_72]

Currently using a pair of crown k1's that I bought new eight years ago. The previous ten years used a pair of crown psa2's until they got struck by a power surge and died...
Can not beat them for the money.:)

Too bad Crown doesn't make the Macro Reference 1 any more. That was a great amp.

58025

[martin_wu99]

Too bad Crown doesn't make the Macro Reference 1 any more. That was a great amp.

58025
Dave,This is not Macro reference,this is Studio reference 1:D

[Dave_72]

You're right. Sorry about that. :D

[martin_wu99]

You're right. Sorry about that. :D
No sense,we just share.:applaud:

[Dave_72]

No sense,we just share.:applaud:

Ok, haha.