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BHearon
12-25-2012, 06:06 PM
I have a pair of model 19's and want to build new cabinets that are narrower than the 19's, just basically trying to update a very 70's style to a more vertical type. I will be using the Altec 416-8B and Altec 811B horn with Altec 808-8B. These 19's did not meet the WAF at all and currently are languishing in a mini warehouse.
1. Would using a soft dome tweeter would add anything to make it a 3-way design?
2. Is dampening the horn needed to eliminate ringing? I have seen lead shot placed in bags around the throat to do this.
3. Is the horn enclosure volume calculated to anything (as opposed to the cabinet volume for the woofer)?
3. Any thoughts about this project?
Merry Christmas!

Earl K
12-27-2012, 02:01 PM
Thoughts ?

- You brought up WAF, so perhaps you ought to be asking the wife, just what size ( cu' ) speakers you'll be allowed to build ( why spin your wheels before you know that simple fact ? ) .

- Making 9.5 cu' speakers appear as if they're maybe only 6 cu' , takes a designer ( with the skills of an illusionist ) . Do you have those ?
- If not , download & get familiar with Googles Sketchup ( draw-program ) and present the mockups to the wife for approval .
- Here was an effort ( of a reworked M19 ) by an LHF member ( Gary L ) who is currently MIA .

http://www.audioheritage.org/photopost/data//500/M19_front_no-grill_Cab13.jpghttp://www.audioheritage.org/photopost/data//500/M19_front_with-grill_M19.jpg

- If you truly have 808-8B ??? drivers ( instead of the stock 802-8G drivers that shipped with M19s ) , then you can get better HF performance by buying new #34647 daiphragms from GPA ( via eBay ) for @ 91. ea . The M19 is too efficient ( at around 97db ) to find a dome tweeter that'll matchup to the system .

- I've seen many comments by M19 users who say that once the horns are screwed to the baffle board, they find the 811s are damped enough .
- Adding the foam insert-surround ( available via ebay ) also seems to help .

:)

NickH
12-28-2012, 06:40 AM
Keep the model 19's. Trade the wife in for a newer model, LOL.




When my wife pulls that I just remind her that I pay for the house too. And half 210's are next on the list to build.

Nick

Mr. Widget
12-28-2012, 11:42 AM
I have a pair of model 19's and want to build new cabinets that are narrower than the 19's, just basically trying to update a very 70's style to a more vertical type. I will be using the Altec 416-8B and Altec 811B horn with Altec 808-8B. These 19's did not meet the WAF at all and currently are languishing in a mini warehouse.
1. Would using a soft dome tweeter would add anything to make it a 3-way design?
2. Is dampening the horn needed to eliminate ringing? I have seen lead shot placed in bags around the throat to do this.
3. Is the horn enclosure volume calculated to anything (as opposed to the cabinet volume for the woofer)?
3. Any thoughts about this project?
Merry Christmas!So you want to turn a big fat ass speaker into something more like a refrigerator? You can do it. The horn and woofer should remain in their original locations, but you can certainly build a taller and narrower cabinet with the same internal volume.

If you are looking for a more contemporary visual solution... you will likely be best served by going with a more contemporary starting point. The Model 19 was rather retro when it was first introduced back in the 70's.


Widget

Earl K
12-28-2012, 12:35 PM
http://wardsweb.org/audio/Widgets/livingroom112809b.jpg

- Here's a thread (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?10692-quot-The-Widgets-quot-update&highlight=511b) that you should read to give you some ideas about what can be done ( by employing a smaller footprint ) all the while, still retaining that classic Altec-horn look ( as offered by the sectoral radial ) . ( Widget made these cabinets, btw / with Wardsweb finishing them ) .

:)

BHearon
12-28-2012, 04:41 PM
Trading in the wife for a new model not possible, she is too nice to me. The cost of changing would be way more than buying a boat load of speakers! LOL.
Yes, I had seen these pictures of Wardsweb speakers on the Home Theater Shack website but I did not know who designed them. I am lusting after something like that.
Anyone have the blueprints for that speaker???

Mr. Widget
12-28-2012, 07:44 PM
Trading in the wife for a new model not possible, she is too nice to me. The cost of changing would be way more than buying a boat load of speakers! LOL.
Yes, I had seen these pictures of Wardsweb speakers on the Home Theater Shack website but I did not know who designed them. I am lusting after something like that.
Anyone have the blueprints for that speaker???They did turn out beautifully... Mr. Ward did a fabulous job on them.:bouncy:

I did receive your PM. I'll post some drawings soon... gotta dig them up. They were several computers back.;)


Widget

BHearon
12-29-2012, 09:22 AM
They did turn out beautifully... Mr. Ward did a fabulous job on them.:bouncy:

I did receive your PM. I'll post some drawings soon... gotta dig them up. They were several computers back.;)


Widget

I appreciate your help and look forward to hearing back from you.

BHearon
12-29-2012, 04:16 PM
Thoughts ?

- You brought up WAF, so perhaps you ought to be asking the wife, just what size ( cu' ) speakers you'll be allowed to build ( why spin your wheels before you know that simple fact ? ) .

- Making 9.5 cu' speakers appear as if they're maybe only 6 cu' , takes a designer ( with the skills of an illusionist ) . Do you have those ?
- If not , download & get familiar with Googles Sketchup ( draw-program ) and present the mockups to the wife for approval .
- Here was an effort ( of a reworked M19 ) by an LHF member ( Gary L ) who is currently MIA .

http://www.audioheritage.org/photopost/data//500/M19_front_no-grill_Cab13.jpghttp://www.audioheritage.org/photopost/data//500/M19_front_with-grill_M19.jpg

- If you truly have 808-8B ??? drivers ( instead of the stock 802-8G drivers that shipped with M19s ) , then you can get better HF performance by buying new #34647 daiphragms from GPA ( via eBay ) for @ 91. ea . The M19 is too efficient ( at around 97db ) to find a dome tweeter that'll matchup to the system .

- I've seen many comments by M19 users who say that once the horns are screwed to the baffle board, they find the 811s are damped enough .
- Adding the foam insert-surround ( available via ebay ) also seems to help



:)

You are so right. I removed the 811B horns and do indeed have the stock 802-8G drivers. Should I send them back to GPA for restoration?

Earl K
12-29-2012, 04:32 PM
You are so right. I removed the 811B horns and do indeed have the stock 802-8G drivers. Should I send them back to GPA for restoration?

No !

If they're both working , there's no need to send them in for restoration .

OTOH, if a diaphragm stops working in the future, then you'll need new diaphragms ( which are user replaceable, more or less ) .

:)

BHearon
12-30-2012, 05:57 AM
What was the final conclusion of the model 19 project that Zilch and Mr. Widget worked on so diligently. Seems like it was to actually use the BMS 4550 driver and the Z19 crossover.

Earl K
12-30-2012, 06:38 AM
Zilch(s) efforts ( at modernizing & refining the "classic", big-box, 2-way ) resides (mostly) within forums that are hosted at other web-sites .

Try;

The Zilch "Legacy" ; Waveguides ( & kits ), now available ! (http://www.diysoundgroup.com/plastic-seos-12.html)

A Long Running , AVS thread on creating "collaborated", FOR-SALE, kit solutions ( for the DIFM crowd ) (http://www.avsforum.com/t/1291022/hey-guys-we-need-a-little-rallying-here/6300_100)

:)