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View Full Version : Purchasing 4333A - question.



kevf
09-29-2004, 03:31 PM
Hi all,
I've been lurking around here for a while and have never seen any vintage JBL for sale locally, until now.

I've found a pair of 4333A located about 100 miles from me. The gentlemen had purchased them new in 1976. The woofers were re-coned in 98. He claims they are 9 out of 10.

I'm going this weekend to inspect them, and will hear them for the first time (very excited!). I've done a search of the forum and have read all the threads on the 4333A.

My question is, other than the general condition of the drivers, are there anything else I should be looking for?

The price is about $1400 USD. Is this fair? I believe these are well regarded speakers. Are there other JBL's I should consider instead for similar prices?

Thanks for all your help.
Kevin

Robh3606
09-29-2004, 04:53 PM
Hello Kevin

Those are some nice speakers! I think the price sound's fair to me but let's see what the rest of the guys think. I would check the cabinets for signs of water damage. You see enough of it on Ebay so can't hurt. Sounds like the woofers are in good shape. You will new diaphrams for the compression driver and ring radiator if they are still original sooner or later. If they were wall flowers you may luck out and have the originals in good condition. That can be expensive depending on what you choose but unless they sound awful you can always do it down the road a bit. Figure with the 2420 you can go 2421 aluminum or 2425 titanium depending on what you like better. You won't know till you have a listen. Good luck and bring your favorites with you.

As far as other speakers well you could look into 4430's but that's a matter of taste and you really do need to hear them to make a decission. You will probably have a preference for one or the other but either set-up right can be a killer set-up.

Rob:)

Audiobeer
09-29-2004, 05:42 PM
I think at a 9 out of 10 rating that's a great price in walnut veneer. I don't know what the grey cabinets run but I would consider that for the painted cabinets if they were 8 out of 10 condition.

kevf
09-29-2004, 06:21 PM
Huh...they also come in grey painted cabs?? Damn, I just assumed they were walnut veneer (and already convinced my wife they would look good in the family room ). I have to call the seller and ask what cabs they are in tomorrow.

Is there a general guideline what the diff in price between the walnut veneer and painted grey cab is? I assume the walnut veneer will be more. Is $1400 fair for the grey cab?

Thanks guys.

Kevin

Audiobeer
09-29-2004, 06:32 PM
Let me put it to you this way. It's very easy to make your money back and then some buy simply parting them out......but after you here them you won't want to do that. There is no set rule how much a grey cabinet is compared to a walnut veneered. But everyone here would agree that at least $200 more for a walnut model would be a minimum.

speakerdave
09-29-2004, 07:18 PM
I recently bought a pair of 4333a and am still working on the woofers, so I'm listening with the 2225H's substituted in. I have them in my vinyl setup with a 60 wpc tube amp, small for these speakers. My vinyl setup is not very tweak and exists merely so I can play my records.

I bought these speakers because I am curious about the classic JBL large format monitors. Because of the freak component alignment I cannot really say anything about the sound, except that it's dynamism is enjoyable. However, I can say that I doubt the 4333A will displace the LSR32 from my SACD/DVD system around the TV.

The walnut cabinets are finished on four sides so that they can be mounted horizontally. You can see what I mean if you study the baffle in the brochure available in the LH library. The "bottoms" of mine are therefore unprotected walnut veneer and are a bit scuffed. The cabinets are made of 1" particle board with a 13-ply nearly 1" baffle board. They are very solid, contain the bass energy very well and weigh about 135 lb each.

With the speakers sitting on the floor the tweeter and mid-range are too low for my taste, so you must seriously consider the possibility you will want some kind of base.

I agree with the other forumites that $1400 is not an abusive price, especially for the walnut. At that price you should be able to enjoy the speakers as long as you want and recover most of your investment easily when it is time to pass them on, or maybe even make a couple of bucks. But since you asked, $1400 could open the door to some interesting options: 1) the already mentioned 4430; 2) the LSR32; 3) perhaps some of JBL's interesting domestic models from the 80's and 90's. I don't really have any experience with the domestic models myself, but they are will mentioned in these forums.

David

Audiobeer
09-29-2004, 07:47 PM
I have to agree with Dave when it comes to his assesment of the sound with his setup. I had my pair hooked up to a Sansui AU-919. I liked the sound. I then hooked them up to a Mcintosh 2255 amp and a Mcintosh C-33 pream. I was amazed at the transformation from 110 watts to 255 watt. The 4433s love power and reflect that. I went to the L-300s which are virtualy the same speaker but are tilted in such away to disperse the sound towards the listener. The 4333s are a studio monitor and they are hard to find without holes drilled into them as they were configured in studios to be hung. A base made for them to sit on would help a great deal as for as the sound goes. I do agree that a pair of 4430s may sound better to most but finding a pair that is in mint shape and is local isn't going to happen for the money you are spending from what I have seen out there. But if you are patient it might. That's what is fun about these models......if your smart and buy them right, you can enjoy them for a time and make a buck passing them on.

John
09-30-2004, 02:28 AM
For what it,s worth there was a guy selling a pair of 4435,s about 6 months ago and they sold for $1800,00 in toronto.
Its a big city if you keep looking your bound to find anything you want around there. a lot of recording studios and stuff all over southern ont.
:D

kevf
10-02-2004, 07:20 PM
Thanks everyone for your info.

Thought I'd give a update. I took delivery of the 4334A today. They are in grey cabs :( but are in very good conditions. They've only been used in the previous owner's family room so I don't think they've been driven very hard. There are some nicks at the cab corners, but nothing serious.

It was quite a workout carrying them to my basement family room (19"x28"). I hooked them up to my temporary setup, a vintage McIntosh MC225 and a old cdp. Initial impression is awesome! Much BIGGER sound then my current speakers (Coincident Technology Super Conquest). The midrange and highs seems effortless. Well, you guys already know the idea. However, one thing I notice is the bass is lighter than I expected. It's there, but not as low as I expected from those 15 inchers. I'm guessing my amp (25w/ch) is not up to the task?? And I'm not sure if the mac can damp those huge woofers effectively.

Anyone with good recommendation for amp (I'll probably buy used) that doesn't break the bank?

BTW, one interesting tidbit. The previous owner paid $2700 (US) for the speakers in 1976. He told me in 1974 he also bought a new Honda Civic for the same price . Wow, these were expensive speakers!

Kevin

John Nebel
10-02-2004, 07:56 PM
Originally posted by kevf
The previous owner paid $2700 (US) for the speakers in 1976.


The price list is in the library on this site.

They are great speakers!

John Nebel

Audiobeer
10-02-2004, 08:20 PM
Your lacking in the bass is definitely in the amp. Get one with some B%@##*! :p

Mr. Widget
10-02-2004, 08:27 PM
Originally posted by kevf
However, one thing I notice is the bass is lighter than I expected. It's there, but not as low as I expected from those 15 inchers. I'm guessing my amp (25w/ch) is not up to the task?? And I'm not sure if the mac can damp those huge woofers effectively.


Those speakers, as are most others, extremely placement sensitive. Move them up against walls and into the corners and they will become bass heavy. They do prefer an amp that has very good damping control. Your small Mac probably isn't the best choice. You would probably like the speakers best with that amp on the highs and bi-amp with a big solid state unit on the woofer.


Originally posted by kevf

BTW, one interesting tidbit. The previous owner paid $2700 (US) for the speakers in 1976. He told me in 1974 he also bought a new Honda Civic for the same price . Wow, these were expensive speakers!

That fact is often missed by many on this forum. They cost the same as an economy car then and the new K2 series cost about the same as an economy car today. So before you gripe about how much the good JBL stuff costs today remember quality costs plenty. It always has.

Widget

BTW, Congratulations!

Robh3606
10-02-2004, 09:20 PM
Hey you have a camera how's about some pictures??

Rob:)

kevf
10-03-2004, 06:12 PM
Here are some pics...(sorry, I dunno how to imbed them in the message).

Mmm..the bi-amping sounds interesting. I did a search on the forum and came up empty. Is there any info on how this can be done? Thanks a bunch...

kevf
10-03-2004, 06:13 PM
And the pair.

Audiobeer
10-03-2004, 06:18 PM
That's a great looking pair, very nice shape. You will love them when you get an amp with some ability to drive and handle the demand some music recordings call for. Try to find an old crown or old JBL DJ amp just for grins (very affordable) so you can see what I mean. Some people have gifted earss but I can't hear the difference between to power amps with the same specs as long as one dosen't present more distortion than the next. Enjoy!!

johnaec
10-03-2004, 06:23 PM
That looks in great shape, especially for a utility cabinet. I do agree with the others, though - you need quite a bit more power to effectively drive those 15's and keep them under control.

John

Mr. Widget
10-03-2004, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by kevf

Mmm..the bi-amping sounds interesting. I did a search on the forum and came up empty. Is there any info on how this can be done? Thanks a bunch...

If that is a 4333A there should be two inputs on the back and a switch that allows for bi-amplification. To do this you need an outboard electronic crossover ( I would suggest you try an Ashly XR1001) and two amps. Your small tube Mac will be perfect for the top end and any solid state unit with 100wpc or better and a stout power supply should have excellent control of that woofer.

Now I started this with if because that cabinet style predates the 4333A as far as I know. Perhaps it is the very beginning of the "A" series before the cabinet changed. If it is a 4333 then you will need to perform a bit of surgery to facilitate bi-amping.

Widget

kevf
10-03-2004, 07:11 PM
I think I have the 4333. There is no switch at the back. I have some soldering skills (have built some kit amps and speakers), but I'm not sure I want to mess with the cross-overs right now.

Too bad, bi-amping sounds like an excellent way to take advantage of the high efficiency upper drivers. Maybe a future project...

Kevin

Robh3606
10-03-2004, 07:53 PM
Thanks for the pictures those look great! Biamping is a good thing you should give it a try at least down the road once you get settled in. There are schematics available if you decide to try it, Basically you loose the low pass to the woofer and the high pass to the compression driver which is replaced with the active crossover. JBL also puts blocking caps is series to protect the compression driver. Some people don't like them but it's safer than risking a blown diaphram just in case. There are plenty of decent amps with enough moxy to keep that woofer under control. Just give a vintage Crown a whirl and you see just how tight reflex bass can be.

Rob:)

Audiobeer
10-03-2004, 08:15 PM
I don't think the 4333a had a switch on the back. Yours should be ready to biamp as is. Do you have a pic of the speaker terminals for us?


Originally posted by kevf
I think I have the 4333. There is no switch at the back. I have some soldering skills (have built some kit amps and speakers), but I'm not sure I want to mess with the cross-overs right now.

Too bad, bi-amping sounds like an excellent way to take advantage of the high efficiency upper drivers. Maybe a future project...

Kevin

speakerdave
10-03-2004, 10:19 PM
Originally posted by Audiobeer
I don't think the 4333a had a switch on the back. Yours should be ready to biamp as is. Do you have a pic of the speaker terminals for us?
My walnut 4333A with the tweeter beside the midrange when the speaker is vertical has two sets of input terminals and a switch for biamping.

David

kevf
10-04-2004, 05:44 AM
I definitely have the 4333. There is only one set of terminal input at the back (and no switch). And the cab says "4333 Studio Montor" in the front and on the l-pads.

I'm sorry about the confusion guys. Being the noobie I am, I initially thought 4333A is the same as 4333 and hence started the thread with 4333A. The seller did tell me they are 4333.

So in essence, to bi-amp by speakers, I have to disconnect the stock crossover and replace it with an external active crossover. I'd love to try it, but I'll most definitely enjoy them as is for a while first:p

Kevin

4313B
10-04-2004, 06:01 AM
Fun loudspeakers! :)

"I have to disconnect the stock crossover and replace it with an external active crossover."

Not a problem since you will want to build new crossovers if you're going to go to the trouble of biamping anyway.

Get an Ashly XR1001 like Mr. Widget and Bo use and charge-couple the dedicated biamp passive networks.

Chas
10-04-2004, 08:57 AM
kevF I am in the Toronto area, send me a PM if you need some help getting the best out of these great speakers.