JBL 2240 vs 2241 vs 2242 vs 2245 (H)

[Krycek]

Hello all, i'm here to figure out the differences between these 4 (sub)woofers, and this seemed the best place to ask. What i will be using the driver for is mainly music and they will be crossed over at around 50~60hz, and i wont need extension past 25hz. A few differences i know is the 2245 uses a foam surround which has less excursion, but if someone can help me find the best woofer for my application i would be very happy. :D

[Lee in Montreal]

For home duty and hifi, I definitively recommend the 2245.
For sound reinforcement, and higher output, then the 2242.

[Krycek]

What is the difference between the 2245 and the 2240? I know they use the same frame.

[hlaari]

What is the difference between the 2245 and the 2240? I know they use the same frame.

I think at 2245 have more output than 2240 under 40Hz
but have you think about to use 2269

There will be interested to see how the 2269 will work in 4645C enclosure
the 2269 have more output than 2242 in the lowest frequency

[Krycek]

I think at 2245 have more output than 2240 under 40Hz
but have you think about to use 2269

There will be interested to see how the 2269 will work in 4645C enclosure
the 2269 have more output than 2242 in the lowest frequency

2269's are a little out of my budget but they do seem ideal.

[Krycek]

There is a 2245h frame in my area for 90, but it needs to be reconed, what are the best recone kits?

[hlaari]

2269's are a little out of my budget but they do seem ideal.

If you are interested I have four new 2258hpl for sale they are similar like 2242h but with neo magnet

I want $1000 for all four

[Mr. Widget]

There is a 2245h frame in my area for 90, but it needs to be reconed, what are the best recone kits?The JBL C8R2245H. I believe the current price is $275 ea. You'll need to find an authorized service center to have one put in properly and to get the JBL warranty.

There are low cost alternatives... at that point, just buy something on eBay. If you want JBL performance be prepared to pay for it.


Widget

[subwoof]

Before you start buying and dealing with recones, note that the 2240/2245 frames are the same but are NOT interchangeable with the 2241 OR the 2242...all are unique..!

where is tejas anyways??

I have pairs of:

2240H
2240G
2245H
GTI1800
K151

In the storage room at present.

[Krycek]

What about the 80$ 2245 recone from mackenzie? anyone have experience with it? and is 90 a good deal for a 2240/45 frame?

also, tejas = texas in spanish

[hjames]

What about the 80$ 2245 recone from mackenzie? anyone have experience with it? and is 90 a good deal for a 2240/45 frame?

also, tejas = texas in spanishIts not a JBL cone, who knows WHAT its going to sound like - certainly not to original specs.
Why would you do that, get a good speaker frame and put some cheap-ass parts on it?

Why not just put a nice Radio Shak woofer in the box -
its certainly not JBL spec with a backdoor cone kit.

[Lee in Montreal]

Its not a JBL cone, who knows WHAT its going to sound like - certainly not to original specs.
Why would you do that, get a good speaker frame and put some cheap-ass parts on it?

Why not just put a nice Radio Shak woofer in the box -
its certainly not JBL spec with a backdoor cone kit.

I asked the same question about McKenzie a year ago. All that came out was that because it is not a JBL cone, then it MUST not sound the same. Nonetheless, so far, nobody came up with comparative measurements.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?30625-Anything-bad-to-say-against-Mackenzie-recone-kits&highlight=mackenzie

Lee

[Mr. Widget]

What about the 80$ 2245 recone from mackenzie? anyone have experience with it? You asked for "Best"... not, "Will it work?"

My guess is that it will work though it will not sound as good much less measure the same. There are plenty of perfectly good inexpensive subs out there. If the goal is lot's o bass for the buck, JBL isn't your best bet. If you want JBL bass, then you need to use JBL parts, tuning, etc.

I haven't been in the used market for quite a while... can't help with current pricing info. I will say that used prices vary widely as does the quality. There is also the issue with shipping these big woofers. A lot of sellers haven't got a clue how to pack them.


Widget

[Lee in Montreal]

I can't wait for somebody to take measurements and compare an original 2245 cone kit with a quality aftermarket kit. Perhats they will sound and measure the same. Perhaps not. Until measurements are taken, we can't say that JBL will be better than that specific aftermarket product. Let's remember that there are shitty and quality replacement diaphragms for 244X drivers out there. They don't sound the same as a JBL but the quality units sound different and some say, better. Radian? Truextent? Maybe Mackenzie is the next Radian... ;) Just sayin'

[Mr. Widget]

I can't wait for somebody to take measurements and compare an original 2245 cone kit with a quality aftermarket kit. Perhats they will sound and measure the same. Perhaps not. Until measurements are taken, we can't say that JBL will be better than that specific aftermarket product. Let's remember that there are shitty and quality replacement diaphragms for 244X drivers out there. They don't sound the same as a JBL but the quality units sound different and some say, better. Radian? Truextent? Maybe Mackenzie is the next Radian... ;) Just sayin'I am not saying that an aftermarket part can't be as good as the original, but the high quality aftermarket parts tend to be as costly or even more than the JBL parts. Quality costs.

Radian parts are of a different design than JBL and they do not measure the same as JBLs. Beyond that I don't think Radian is as good as JBL as their parts are inconsistent. Even JBL has QC issues, this is another reason to have an authorized repair facility do the work, if the parts are not correct, they will send them back and get good ones.


Widget

[4313B]

The JBL C8R2245H. I believe the current price is $275 ea. You'll need to find an authorized service center to have one put in properly and to get the JBL warranty.

There are low cost alternatives... at that point, just buy something on eBay. If you want JBL performance be prepared to pay for it.


Widget$275 is stupid cheap for such a driver... if anyone can't swing that then sell the frames to those who know exactly what to do with them. These cores are only going to get more and more rare so pass them on if you have no clue what to do with them.

[boputnam]

$275 is stupid cheap for such a driver... if anyone can't swing that then sell the frames to those who know exactly what to do with them. These cores are only going to get more and more rare so pass them on if you have no clue what to do with them.+1. Er, +1,000,000...

I'll pay shipping, to me!

[maxwedge]

Hello all, i'm here to figure out the differences between these 4 (sub)woofers, and this seemed the best place to ask. What i will be using the driver for is mainly music and they will be crossed over at around 50~60hz, and i wont need extension past 25hz. A few differences i know is the 2245 uses a foam surround which has less excursion, but if someone can help me find the best woofer for my application i would be very happy. :D
For music, 2245 hands down. For SR, 2242!

$275 is stupid cheap for such a driver... if anyone can't swing that then sell the frames to those who know exactly what to do with them. These cores are only going to get more and more rare so pass them on if you have no clue what to do with them.
+2..

[Lee in Montreal]

Reviving a zombie thread.

Who has had good experience crossing a 2240 at 500Hz? Does it still sound good that high, or is this mud?

TIA

Lee

[colofan]

I have used the 2240 a lot and I don't push it pass 200Hz. I prefer to insert a 2118H or something similar to mate to a mid-range.

Large diameter driver have a tendency to get change their directivity pretty fast above 100Hz.

[Lee in Montreal]

I have used the 2240 a lot and I don't push it pass 200Hz. I prefer to insert a 2118H or something similar to mate to a mid-range.

Large diameter driver have a tendency to get change their directivity pretty fast above 100Hz. Pretty much what I anticipated. I don't use the 2245 beyond 80Hz myself. The cone is very damped and heavy. I hoped that perhaps the lighter 2240 cone would reach higher, but being a big cone, I understand the limitations. Thanks for the reply. So, I guess that when JBL claims it can be crossover at 2KHZ, it must be for a loud PA where sound quality doesn't matter... :D

[BeDome]

There is a 2245h frame in my area for 90, but it needs to be reconed, what are the best recone kits?

The ONLY way you will ever know what a 2245 sounds like is to have one of those blown frames reconed by a reputable service with actual JBL parts. These parts are becoming rare and quite expensive. I paid over $400 each last time I had a pair reconed properly. That has been a while.
Hard to find any better bass for listening on the planet.

For live sound, a different type of driver is needed.

You have to understand that the 2240/2241/2242s were all designed for sound reinforcement, which means live dynamic, ballz to the wall output, while the 2245 was designed for (finesse, lower frequency response, while not quite as much output or abuse) studio monitor use and generally it was used with somewhat compressed signals.



I guess the important question is; What are you planning to do with your system?

[BeDome]

For home duty and hifi, I definitively recommend the 2245.
For sound reinforcement, and higher output, then the 2242.


So more concise ...

What he said!

[BeDome]

Reviving a zombie thread.

Who has had good experience crossing a 2240 at 500Hz? Does it still sound good that high, or is this mud?

TIA

Lee

Sorry, just realized this was a zombie thread, as you called it.

I definitely feel better with a couple of fifteens or maybe twelves for some jobs to take your sound up to where a large compression driver can take over. I do not really hear crap coming from an (I have several 2240s and 2241s, but only four 2242s) eighteen at 500Hz, but rather some beaming. I often use 200Hz to 300Hz as my XO point (or even 80 or 100 HZ if I need to push more bass, then I really appreciate having a few fifteens to take it up to 500Hz or so).

I just do not like beaming at all.


Another point is, if you are setting your eighteens on the floor for best coupling of the bass, I feel that the "vocal frequencies" should be well above head level in the crowd to increase overall clarity, even IF the bass drivers are capable of massive output all the way up to the midrange.
If you are flying the entire system, it might be less critical to cross over low, but I still think there are benefits to using smaller drivers for low mids, even in horn loaded systems.

[Lee in Montreal]

The 2240h is a forgotten driver. Fs30Hz and low Qts of 0.23. Great for horn loading, or bass reflex. 30Hz is pretty low for a high output woofer. Sure, the power compression is better on the 2241 and 2242, but the 2240 sounds better in a home environment. and it will sound more "dynamic" than a 2245. More kick and presence. My next project in 10cft cabinets tuned to Fb30Hz

Lee

[BeDome]

OK, different story.
I have used my 2240s inside, but never had the luxury of a truly adequate enclosure inside other than just party time in my dad's barn or something. I have always had to scale down enclosure size inside my home and try to make it up with power and EQ.
Hardly works.

If you are going for near field listening, then beaming (from crossing over in the vocal range with an eighteen) can be far less of an issue, since you can control the effect by angling the direct output.

[Flemming Skov]

The 2240h is a forgotten driver. Fs30Hz and low Qts of 0.23. Great for horn loading, or bass reflex. 30Hz is pretty low for a high output woofer. Sure, the power compression is better on the 2241 and 2242, but the 2240 sounds better in a home environment. and it will sound more "dynamic" than a 2245. More kick and presence. My next project in 10cft cabinets tuned to Fb30Hz

Lee

I fully agree with you. I use two 2240H in a 4642a enclosure for "hifi" use in my living room (my "sattelite" is 4530/2226, 2360a/2445, Beyma TPL150, but that's another story) and finde it very usefull. The frequency range is crossed from 25Hz to 66Hz where the side sattelites take over. The kick is, of course, frome the sattelites but the filling low bass is very well produced from the 2240. Actually the xmax of 5mm is more than enough and in combination with a very light cone the bass sounds tight, for my ear.

[Dr.db]

I haven`t heard it yet, but I reckon the 2240 mounted in 10cub.feet tuned to 30hz should be JBL`s best sounding bass driver.

It should reproduce 30hz with a lot of power and still sound very very good above 100hz :)
I believe 2245h has more efficiency below 50hz, but won`t sound as punchy and well staggered above 100hz as the 2240...
The 2240 is well tuned to 30hz, but decreases sensitivity quiet early and rolls of gently from 100hz down to 30hz... this could mate very well with most livingrooms and their roomgain :)

So a 2240h should be very well mating a 2123 midrange at aprox. 250hz without any sacrisfy in midbass dynamics, whereas the 2245 might just be a lowbass-woofer.


Obviously I havn`t heard any of them two, so I shouldn`t be talking about them.
But these are my thoughts I wanted to share, respectively get them confirmed or disproved by you!

[Flemming Skov]

Hi Dr.db,

Yes, you where right that the 2240 will have a "slow" roll off towards the low end in this particular 4642 enclosure. The below simulated response of the frequency range is close to my measurements in the living room. I "cut" the woofers above 66Hz very hard (48dB steep, butt) in order not to interfere with the "sattelite" system due to a very high output above 100Hz.

The 2240 can be used to give low end if you consider this raise in frequency response. Due to the dual 2240's effeciency the output from 25Hz - 70Hz is very dynamic and powerfull.


62635

For comparison is the same data for the enclosure but speaker data is from 2245. As can be seen the 2245 is very flat (probably due to higher cone weight) but the cost is a weaker step response compared to the 2240 (lighter cone)

62637

The comparison also show that the 2245 is playing "louder" but for home use the 2240 in a 4642 cab. is more than enough when playing Metallica :D

[Flemming Skov]

I dont know how the f... to remove the last figure. It's not in the edit text when editing, hmmm ghost....

[Lee in Montreal]

One day, the 2240H wil be rehabilitated :D

[Voice]

Is there any difference between the baskets 2240/2241 ? I have one of each and was thinking of reconing them.

[JeffW]

I suspect they are different - when looking for 2245-compatible baskets, the 2240 is generally the only candidate other than the E155

[grumpy]

2240/2241 frames are not interchangeable.

[gibber]

2240/2241 frames are not interchangeable.

I have tried all from 40 thru '45 and none *really* has the same intended use. The '43 is a Techno-audience version of the '42 (long throw coil and deepened frame to yield "throw" compansated against getting boring-sounding by a larger magnet)
For the home, the '40 and '43 are best unless you want "cinema-style" bass at up to medium-high volume when a '45 gives more rumble to bounce your interior decoration about.

My .02 only
Ralph

[Voice]

Is it possible to recone 2241 to 2240 using 2240 recone kit ?

[Lee in Montreal]

Is it possible to recone 2241 to 2240 using 2240 recone kit ?

No. ;-(

[1audiohack]

I have a question about the 2243 comment. It reads to me that the 2243 has a deeper pole piece and longer coil than the 2242? My experience shows the motor assembly of the 2242 and 2243 to be identical and the voice coil on the C8R 2243 to be shorter tham the 2242.

Have I missed something?

Barry.

[Voice]

No. ;-(

Whats the difference of the baskets ? I have both 2240 and 2241.

I have two recone kits for 2240.

[HCSGuy]

I have a question about the 2243 comment. It reads to me that the 2243 has a deeper pole piece and longer coil than the 2242? My experience shows the motor assembly of the 2242 and 2243 to be identical and the voice coil on the C8R 2243 to be shorter tham the 2242.

Have I missed something?

Barry.

I just reconed a pair of 2242's as 2243's and while we didn't take pictures, the VC in the 2242 was longer (15/16" maybe) and copper clad aluminum, the 2243 looked to be solid copper and maybe 11/16" long. We did not measure the former length. Sorry to stray off topic...

[1audiohack]

That was my exact experience as well. I still have a pair of C8R2243 kits.

Barry.

[Lee in Montreal]

Whats the difference of the baskets ? I have both 2240 and 2241.

I have two recone kits for 2240.

Well. If you have 2240 recone kits and 2240 baskets, then the solution is obvious ;-)

[Voice]

Well. If you have 2240 recone kits and 2240 baskets, then the solution is obvious ;-)

I only have one of each:( Does the 2240 kit fit the 2241 ?

[JeffW]

I only have one of each:( Does the 2240 kit fit the 2241 ?


2240/2241 frames are not interchangeable.


No. ;-(

I know it's frustrating, but the answer isn't going to change. You'll need to find another 2240 (not 2241) basket or the only other baskets that will work are 2245 (not 2241) or E155 (not 2241)

[Voice]

Can you elaborate on this issue more than saying its not going to work. Whats the different between 2240 and 2241 baskets ?
Is there a difference in magnet gap, voicecoil etc ?

[Voice]

My both basket were 2241 not 2240 as i remembered. I also measured the magnet gap and it shows that 2241 magnet gap is larger than 2240 so it wount fit properly.

[gibber]

I have a question about the 2243 comment. It reads to me that the 2243 has a deeper pole piece and longer coil than the 2242? My experience shows the motor assembly of the 2242 and 2243 to be identical and the voice coil on the C8R 2243 to be shorter tham the 2242.

Have I missed something?

Barry.


Hi Barry,

i have a dead 2243 and opened it. The unit had previously been reconed, not sure what i saw was original, but guess it was.
Coil is very heavy, probably pure copper not alu wire, about 2 cm long on a former that looks identical to 2242.

The magnet is significantly bigger than on a 2242. I recall something like 22 cm. Think 2226 vs 2227 magnet.

The frame is not interchangable with 2242 for another reason. In 2242, the magnet top pole piece is basically at the same plane as the basket's spokes converging on the centre section that holds the magnet. On 2243, the basket is extended to the back by about a cm and holds the magnet from there, see my picture.
70631



EDIT: i checked some pics on eBay and it seems some of the 2242H's recently on sale there have this extension to the back also. Not sure all of them have it, as this detail is not pictured often. So maybe i have to eat my words, i currently have no 2242 basket at hand to cross-check, unfortunately.

A difference apart from wire material definitely is the ribbing of the cone goes close to the dust cap in 2242; whereas the wide unribbed inner section near the dust cap is heavily reinforced with resin on my 2243's.
That rib structure is (i believe) designed to allow for gradual de-coupling of outer cone sections by introducing an intended controlled structural weakness to the cone with regard to lower mid and midrange frequencies.

Ralph

[gibber]

Not sure the 2243H data is somewhere here on the forum already:

the unit pictured above showed fs=29Hz, Re=5.2Ohm, Zm= 76Ohm, Qms=2.9, Qes=0.21, Qts=0,195.
Vas wasn't measured.

Ralph

[grumpy]

The Transducer section is a good place to look:

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?10653-2243H

[darkmatter]

Does anyone know if a 2245H driver chassis can take a 2242H recone kit?
Thanks
DM :)

[Earl K]

Does anyone know if a 2245H driver chassis can take a 2242H recone kit?
Thanks
DM :)

It can't ( you can't put a 2242 kit in a 2245 chassis ).

They have 2 different depth top-plates ( iow; gap depth ).

The 2245 chassis can accept a 2240 recone kit ( which is NLA as OEM but most likely available as an aftermarket kit ).

:)