JBL 12" - Best Woofer

[victoriobenatti]

Could someone indicate, according to his opinion and personal experience, which is the woofer JBL 12" which has the best sounding, best linear response and greater sensitivity, regardless of the date on which it was released?

Thank You,

Victório Benatti

[rudy sesztak]

In my opion the Jbl D123(98db efficient) has great sound and is the best, except for being a little weak in the extreme low end.I'm sure some other members on this forum will disagree with me -RUDY

[Lee in Montreal]

One question remains though. Best for which purpose?

[tom1040]

One question remains though. Best for which purpose?

Right! I liked the ME120-H (I think that was the model number) in the S/2600 2 way speaker......The woofer re-produced a lot of midrange as well so not made for really low energy although it seemed to operate quite well for me at the time.
:)

[hlaari]

I think at 1200fe is the best 12" woofer JBL have made

[BMWCCA]

As long as we have no idea of context, let me voice my praise for the 128H-1.

In a totally different application, I'm equally fond of the LE120H-1
:slink:

[victoriobenatti]

One question remains though. Best for which purpose?

For the purpose of producing the best bass on my system.

Victório Benatti

[Lee in Montreal]

For the purpose of producing the best bass on my system.

Victório Benatti

Hmmm... Okay then. And what is your system? What do your use it for? In-car sound system? Studio monitoring system? PA system? Home theater system? Horn loaded? Bass reflex?

2-way? 3-way? 4-way? How high do you want the woofer to reach? You want best hi-fidelity? Best power? Best low end?

You need to help us if you want a specific answer...

Per exemple, my Massey-Fergurson tractor is the best vehicle...on the farm. A Mercedes-Benz is the best vehicle on the autobahn... but sucks big time for cropping corn... ;)

[victoriobenatti]

Description of my current system:

- Turntable Thorens TD-126 MKII Electronic
- SME-Arm 3009R
- Arm Anti-static Thorens c/wire brush carbon
- Moving-Coil Ortofon MC20 Super II
- Internal lighting Kit c/mercury contacts. When you lift the lid of the TD light glows. The lower, off.
- Pre-pre AudioNote Silvered Former AN-S4II (behind the Thorens)
- Phono-pre vacuum tube DavidKon (behind the preamp)
- CD-Transport Theta Pearl
- DAC Theta Chroma 396
- Preamp vacuum tube DavidKon (left on top of the power Sony)
- Active 4-way Crossover: Techvox TPX2341SM (made in Brazil), under the CD-Transport
- Power 1: Sony TAN-5550 for sub bass (under the preamplifier) 80 wrms/channel
- Power 2: Single-Ended KT88 vacuum tube DavidKon for bass (right under neath the power 3) 6 wrms/channel
- Power 3: Single-Ended 2A3 vacuum tube DavidKon for medium (right on top of the power 2) 2 wrms/channel
- Power 4: Pure Triode vacuum tube DavidKon for treble (under neath the Sony) 16 wrms/channel
- Subwoofer:
- Dahlquist Low Bass Module
- Front Boxes:
- Bass: JBL D123 (greater, with 5 cubic feet enclosure JBL project for D123)
- Mid: JBL D123 (minor)
- Treble: Altec Lansing Horn 811B with JBL 2420 compression driver
- Cables (total cost: U$ 40)
- Deployable force: common copper, 10A, 250v, 7 in total
- Common copper interconnect: c/brass terminals, 7.5 pairs in total
- Boxes: PP, copper, 2x1mm2, 750V, 3.5 pairs in total
56711

Victório Benatti

[Titanium Dome]

If it's low frequency you're craving, then the JBL part no. 336063-001 alloy woofer with rubber surround is the ticket. This shielded 12" wonder is costly if you can find it, approaching $800. It's found in the HTPS400. I've never seen a model number for this driver.

Lacking the money and the luck of finding a 336063-001, I'd go for the LE120H-1, which is found in the L7 and the S3S Synthesis® Three subwoofer.

[Lee in Montreal]

Considering the mid is already a 12" driver, I would fill the lower box with a JBL W12GTi sub driver (20-60Hz). Enough sub bass to shake the building. :eek:

http://images.craigslist.org/5L85G65J73E13G13J1c7d30c1d961aea91203.jpg

[BMWCCA]

Looks like you have plenty of room for a 15-inch in that box . . . or maybe even an 18 . . . :hmm:


A Mercedes-Benz is the best vehicle on the autobahn... but sucks big time for cropping corn... ;)Sure, if you don't want to go fast, or expect it to handle well. Sort of like using a D123 and expecting deep bass. :rotfl:

56712

[victoriobenatti]

Considering the mid is already a 12" driver, I would fill the lower box with a JBL W12GTi sub driver (20-60Hz). Enough sub bass to shake the building.

It is not that I need because sub-bass already have a subwoofer Dahlquist for this purpose. What I'm wanting is an option for the bass and mid-bass provided by my current D-123, which are already very good. You know how it is, we always have curiosity to try other good components in the system.

Victório Benatti

[4313B]

I think at 1200fe is the best 12" woofer JBL have madeI'm surprised it took five posts to effectively end this thread. I guess not enough folks have had the exposure to this transducer.

The only complaint Greg seems to have is the lack of a four-inch voice coil, hence the preference for the fifteens. Personally, I think it redefines performance of three-inch coiled twelves. It's pretty stunning with a real nice balance between low frequency extension, efficiency, ultra-low distortion, and superlative midrange. A note on the four-inch coils, rumor has it JBL is moving away from them in favor of the three-inch coils as found in the new 2216Nd. That said, the new 1501AL-2 and 1501AL-3 still sport the legendary JBL four-inch voice coil. They basically redefine state of the art in JBL fifteen inch transducers.

Interestingly, the new ten (100FE-12) is also very good. Jerry loaded it up with all the goodies too. It looks like a ten-inch version of the 1200FE-8/12. While it is made in China, JBL forced the vendor to strictly follow process and procedure.

Of course, all this is pointless, you can't technically buy them. I guess the thread should have been titled "JBL 12" - Best Woofer if one can't obtain a 1200FE-8 or 1200FE-12."

[hjames]

I'm surprised it took five posts to effectively end this thread.
I guess not enough folks have had the exposure to this transducer.

The only complaint Greg seems to have is the lack of a four-inch voice coil, hence the preference for the fifteens.
Interestingly, the new ten (100FE-12) is also very good. Jerry loaded it up with all the goodies too.
It looks like a ten-inch version of the 1200FE-8/12.

How hard is it to get a pair of these drivers?
Seems the best plan would be to build a pair of cabinets and do the distributed bass thing ...

[4313B]

How hard is it to get a pair of these drivers?
1. JBL rarely has any in stock.
2. If you happen to catch them on a day that they do have a PAIR you then have to contend with:
A. UPS losing them in transit.
B. Ryder not packaging them right and they end up busted in half on delivery.

It appears that more and more people at JBL are becoming familiar with the never ending nightmare of customers not being able to get replacement drivers. The story I heard last week is that Mexico refuses to build "extras" for replacement purposes, quite simply, they just don't fucking get it. They refuse to answer emails FROM HARMAN, they refuse to answer phone calls FROM HARMAN. Basically the place needs to be shut down.

Perhaps we'll be seeing more and more vendors in China stepping up to the plate. Hopefully they'll put Mexico out of business and the sooner the better. I asked for a pair of 476BE's a couple months ago and I was told "we're actively searching for a new vendor". That doesn't seem to bode well for Harman Audio de Mexico.

I still agree with the assessment that the jackass who moved production out of Northridge should have died in a fire the day he made the announcement. Seriously, we just flat out don't need fucking losers like that in our country. If someone mentions moving manufacturing overseas just drag them out into the street by their hair, tar and feather them and run them out of town tied assbackwards on a mule. They serve no purpose.

[hjames]

Thanks for the info - I was kind of afraid of that. That said ... what do you know about the 12 inch drivers used in the Synthesis 3 systems
such as the JBL NS3SL- aka -(SYN3 12IN SUBWOOFER) ... they are Passive subs in corner boxes ...

They are doing a blowout on the "Left" and "Right" version of these -
and I could imagine doing worse with a pair of these fed by that HK Citation 22 I've held onto all these years
That said - I cannot imagine factories that don't do what company management tell them do do!
Shut those dummies down and move production stateside again - say, to Texas or Arkansas or Ohio
where folks can follow directions and would LOVE to have good factory jobs!




1. JBL rarely has any in stock.
2. If you happen to catch them on a day that they do have a PAIR you then have to contend with:
A. UPS losing them in transit.
B. Ryder not packaging them right and they end up busted in half on delivery.

It appears that more and more people at JBL are becoming familiar with the never ending nightmare of customers not being able to get replacement drivers. The story I heard last week is that Mexico refuses to build "extras" for replacement purposes, quite simply, they just don't fucking get it. They refuse to answer emails FROM HARMAN, they refuse to answer phone calls FROM HARMAN. Basically the place needs to be shut down.

Perhaps we'll be seeing more and more vendors in China stepping up to the plate. Hopefully they'll put Mexico out of business and the sooner the better. I asked for a pair of 476BE's a couple months ago and I was told "we're actively searching for a new vendor". That doesn't seem to bode well for Harman Audio de Mexico.

I still agree with the assessment that the jackass who moved production out of Northridge should have died in a fire the day he made the announcement. Seriously, we just flat out don't need fucking losers like that in our country. If someone mentions moving manufacturing overseas just drag them out into the street by their hair, tar and feather them and run them out of town tied assbackwards on a mule. They serve no purpose.

[Ruediger]

According to JBL the relevant TS parameters of the D123 are:

fs = 45 Hz ; Qts = 0.45 ; Vas = 135,9 liter ; Qm = 4.5 ; Qe = 0.5 ; Re = 6.0

In Thiele's table alignment # 7 comes close (it is a C4 alignment):

f3/fs = 0.729 ; f3 / fb = 0.879 ; Vas / Vab = 0.729 ; Qt = 0.466

This leads to:

f3 = 32.8 Hz (HEY!!!) ; fb = 37.3 Hz ; Vab = 186.4 liter

You can achive the proper Qt = 0.466 by selecting the proper R for Your xover series coil:

1 / Qt = 1 / Qa + (1 / Qe) [Re / (Rg + Re)]

Re is the speaker's DC resistance, and Rg is the generator impedance, which is the sum of Your amplifier's output impedance and all losses in cables and xover coils.

Perhaps somebody can feed a simulation program with the data from above and can optimize the box (make it smaller).

Ruediger

[4313B]

Thanks for the info - I was kind of afraid of that. That said ... what do you know about the 12 inch drivers used in the Synthesis 3 systems
such as the JBL NS3SL- aka -(SYN3 12IN SUBWOOFER) ... they are Passive subs in corner boxes ...

They are doing a blowout on the "Left" and "Right" version of these -
and I could imagine doing worse with a pair of these fed by that HK Citation 22 I've held onto all these years
The driver is the LE120H-1 as mentioned earlier in this thread. They are blowing those subs out basically for the price of the driver. They are fairly decent subwoofers. I thought of picking up a couple myself to go with some Tannoys but, quite frankly, the 2266H in a smaller box kicks the hell out of it (plus, no foam surround and the fifteen-inch Neo driver is actually lighter than the LE120H-1). You might be able to pick up a 2266H for the price of a pair of those twelves and a box is a box, worst case buy one of those PE 3 cubic footers and then actually brace it.

[speakerdave]

. . . . That said - I cannot imagine factories that don't do what company management tell them do do! . . . .

Some countries have rules about local ownership, so technically they become a contractor; therein lies the rub.

[martin_wu99]

In Chinese,there is no the best,only the better
Personally, i will recommend 252

[victoriobenatti]

Thank you very much for the information. The models cited are very difficult to find.

Has anyone tried the JBL E120 model? If so, what do you think of it?

Victório Benatti

[maxserg]

The E-120 is a guitar speaker with alu dust cap

[victoriobenatti]

Yes I know.
My D123 are also used in boxes of guitars (Fender).
The E120 seem suitable for work as woofer.
Has anyone used them in this configuration?

Victório Benatti

[martin_wu99]

Thank you very much for the information. The models cited are very difficult to find.

Has anyone tried the JBL E120 model? If so, what do you think of it?

Victório Benatti
E120 is not as good as K120, and the both are midrange ,not for woofer.:blink:

[victoriobenatti]

Would someone please tell me what are the differences between the 2206H and 2206HPL ?

In advance thank you.

Victório Benatti

[Lee in Montreal]

PL stands probably for ProtectionLess. Meaning it doesn't come with the rubber "bumper" to protect the magnet. THose are usually found in complete systems as sold by JBL (cabinet + drivers).