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View Full Version : Ashly XR22 E (12 dB/Octave) suitable for JBL 4343 bi-amp?



pyonc
08-02-2012, 12:23 PM
Hi,

Please advise me on the suitability of this active crossover for JBL 4343.
This fits with JBL 5233 or 5234 with 12db/octave filter slope.
Comparing with Ashly XR1001, RANE AC22B, JBL M552, how does this stand?
Any experienced members' opinion would be highly appreciated.

hjames
08-02-2012, 01:06 PM
Hi,

Please advise me on the suitability of this active crossover for JBL 4343.
This fits with JBL 5233 or 5234 with 12db/octave filter slope.
Comparing with Ashly XR1001, RANE AC22B, JBL M552, how does this stand?
Any experienced members' opinion would be highly appreciated.

if memory serves, you HAD used the Ashly XR1001 in the past??

I had used JBL/UREI M552 and wound up using the Ashly XR1001 - preferred it to the M552.
I had heard the Rane (and Behringer gear) were lesser products so I never tried either of them.
My Ashly, like BMWCCA's, is an early one that was American made ...

I'd heard going to a Marchand Active crossover was the real way to make a gain in biamping ...
swapping around any of the inexpensive active crossovers is probably not going to net much of a change in fidelity.

I gather you DID flip the woofer polarity to match the 24db slope of the Ashly?
as Bo said ...


Ian made a point about imposing the Linkwitz-Riley -24dB slope on the 43-series stock system, wrt the low-pass. I have not "tested" (measured) his point, but empirically, it would seem valid.

Both the stock passive network and the active 5234a are -12dB slopes. Using an Ashly with it's -24dB L-R slopes should alone require a 180 shift in phase to maintain the JBL design polarity between the woof and the other tranducers.

See
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?16263-Looky-What-I-just-got-4341-Monitors&p=205114&viewfull=1#post205114

pyonc
08-02-2012, 03:56 PM
Thanks for remembering my thread on this long time ago. Yea, you're right.
I sold Ashly XR1001 for M552, which I liked better in terms of sonority.
Any experience with this Ashly XR22E with 12db/octave instead of XR1001 with 24db slope?
And you mentioned on the woofer polarity to match the 24db slope of the Ashly.
Could you elaborate a bit on this?

hjames
08-02-2012, 04:25 PM
Thanks for remembering my thread on this long time ago. Yea, you're right.
I sold Ashly XR1001 for M552, which I liked better in terms of sonority.
Any experience with this Ashly XR22E with 12db/octave instead of XR1001 with 24db slope?
And you mentioned on the woofer polarity to match the 24db slope of the Ashly.
Could you elaborate a bit on this?

Well, with the stock JBL crossover, the woofer is connected Out of phase of the other drivers. This effectively makes the crossover steeper
at the point between the Woofer and the mid bass driver. I just checked the 3141 and 3143 diagrams and they don't have polarity indicators,
so I screen capped the 3145 crossover (for the 4345 system) and attached it below.

What Bo indicated in his quote is that with the -24db mode of the Ashly crossover,
you need to invert the normally inverted of the woofer ...
in effect, it would then be connected + to + and - to - ...

If you do NOT do this, if you keep the inverted polarity when using the Ashly Xr1001,
you get regular polarity and the crossover does not work properly,
and the woofer does not work properly with the other drivers.

56486

pyonc
08-02-2012, 06:55 PM
Thanks, but I still don't get it. :blink:
Currently I have an inverted woofer, namely red(+) from the speaker goes to black(-) on the amp, with JBL M552 with 24db.
Do you mean red should go to red, and black to black in this case?

hjames
08-03-2012, 02:38 AM
Thanks, but I still don't get it. :blink:
Currently I have an inverted woofer, namely red(+) from the speaker goes to black(-) on the amp, with JBL M552 with 24db.
Do you mean red should go to red, and black to black in this case?

When you used the Ashly crossover in the -24db setting,
it is inverting the phase of the woofer signal.
You should have flipped the woofer cables so red went to red, black went to black.

If you did not, the crossover wasn't playing properly.

Thats exactly what I quoted from Bo -

"Using an Ashly with it's -24dB L-R slopes should alone
require a 180 shift in phase to maintain the JBL design polarity
between the woof and the other tranducers."

pyonc
08-03-2012, 07:02 AM
Thanks much. So, if I get your point right,

1) in a biamp mode with Ashy or any other crossover like JBL M552 with 24db,
speaker red(+) cable should go to amp red, and speaker black to amp black.
Namely, there is no more inverted woofer here.

2) in a normal single amp without crossver,
just keep the inverted woofer, namely speaker red to amp black, and speaker black to amp red.

Am I right? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

hjames
08-03-2012, 09:10 AM
Yes, that is what Bo taught me couple years back ...

You understand why, yes?
With the ashly or similar, if it shifts the phase 180 degrees, that is inverting whatever you put into it,
so to get the speaker playing out of phase, you must invert the now already inverted signal ...
so in that use it flips to red on red and black on black.



Thanks much. So, if I get your point right,

1) in a biamp mode with Ashy or any other crossover like JBL M552 with 24db,
speaker red(+) cable should go to amp red, and speaker black to amp black.
Namely, there is no more inverted woofer here.

2) in a normal single amp without crossver,
just keep the inverted woofer, namely speaker red to amp black, and speaker black to amp red.

Am I right? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

pyonc
08-03-2012, 11:20 AM
Got it! Thanks so much. Actually I've been listening the opposite way, namely with inverted woofers.
Yet 4343 still sounds wonderful that way. Let me try that correct way.

pyonc
08-04-2012, 05:57 AM
May I ask you one more question?:)
I did a battery check on the woofer a minute ago.
I see the woofer cone moving out with terminal black on battery +, red on battery -.
And the cone moves in the other way.
So, with 24db/octave crossover like Ashly and M552,
you still believe it's correct to have amp black(-) on terminal black(+), and amp red (+) on terminal red(-)?

hjames
08-04-2012, 07:18 AM
The ultimate Question is ALWAYS -

HOW
DOES
IT
SOUND??

Only YOU can tell which you think sounds best -
if you cannot appreciate the difference,
If both configurations sound good to you,
then it doesn't really matter, now does it?



Sorry - busy day - going to buy a second pair of Vandersteen 2CE speakers
to I'll have a full surround system with them.
(Center and Sub come next week - new-to-me B&K 202Plus amp also)
Fagen/MacDonald/Scaggs concert next week at WolfTrap - enjoy!

ENJOY.


May I ask you one more question?:)
I did a battery check on the woofer a minute ago.
I see the woofer cone moving out with terminal black on battery +, red on battery -.
And the cone moves in the other way.
So, with 24db/octave crossover like Ashly and M552,
you still believe it's correct to have amp black(-) on terminal black(+), and amp red (+) on terminal red(-)?

pyonc
08-04-2012, 10:06 AM
The ultimate Question is ALWAYS -

HOW
DOES
IT
SOUND??

Only YOU can tell which you think sounds best -
if you cannot appreciate the difference,
If both configurations sound good to you,
then it doesn't really matter, now does it?



Sorry - busy day - going to buy a second pair of Vandersteen 2CE speakers
to I'll have a full surround system with them.
(Center and Sub come next week - new-to-me B&K 202Plus amp also)
Fagen/MacDonald/Scaggs concert next week at WolfTrap - enjoy!

ENJOY.

Yea, that's what I hear often in this form.
Thanks, and have a great weekend!